Official Patch Notes for 1.1.1

[smokebomb12]

What can Links shield block now or is it the same?

 

[DUKEL]

It was possible before patch... I do it in a regular basis. It is just placebo effect I think

How I hate that placebo
Anyway I just tested Villager's b-air and our Hylian shield blocks it now... It's about f****** time, Sakurai.

 

[link and ike lover]

So umm stuff I noticed for Link.

- Link is a bit faster ( Or im I just seeing things)
-Links Down Tilt is a lot faster and it doesnt glow. So I think Dtilt spike is gone. Haven't tried but will see. Right now.
-Links Zair/ Grab is alot longer!
-Links Down throw doesnt go the opposite face he is facing ( which most of us link mains are use to) Instead the opponent goes up..

So yea Thats all I got and plz correct me if im wrong.
Thx and have a good one.

Edit: Yup its official Link doesnt have his Down tilt spike anymore...


And Link is pretty much better than 1.07 just by like 10 or 5 percent


And Link cant do that spin attack to ledge thing anymore and the spin attack off the ledge off the ledge.


Also his down tilt spike is so weak it shouldn't be called a spike

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Wow... D-tilt is insanely faster now.

 

[Nimious]

Link's real mixup on block after Jab always hinged on interrupting things with Jab 2 anyway. Sure there's shenanigans, but the difference between getting someone off you with Jab 1 cancels and Jab 2 cancels is really not that big especially since as you said yourself, Jab 1 really only properly comboed into stuff at higher percents anyway. You still get ****ed over in midrange by Sheik and Fox either way if they don't ever choose to walk in your Jab range.

Link is ****ing high tier now. D-throw is SO GOOD like LEGIT COMBOS INTO U-AIR AT KO % GOOD. Against Fox you can do D-throw -> U-smash starting around like idk 20% or so JESUS. Even in matchups like Luigi where D-throw U-air doesn't combo the position advantage is so good it might as well.

I swear man, ALL LINK EVER NEEDED WAS GOOD THROWS AND NOW HE HAS THEM! Also confirming that the grab range buff is real.

If you did your second jab on shield you'd get grabbed right away. There's NO mix-up. Both Shiek and Fox would grab you before the jab finisher or anything else you may try and cancel to. The only chance you had was canceling after the first jab.

Which is the point, with the IASA frames gone from jab one and jab two always having far more frames of lag you had NO options.

....Jab one had very low lag and on hit confirm gave you frame advantage, enough of it that whatever you cancelled to was almost guaranteed to land, it was borderline a true combo. It isn't because say Marth's Up-B would get out but only extremely quick moves (of which there are few) would get you out. At high percentages, Jab -> Up-tilt IS a true combo.

Jab two can't do any of that.... It doesn't true combo and it doesn't even get close to the point of a true combo so when you say it's not that big of a difference that's just wrong.

The combo potential was immense which is why it affected match-ups greatly. On floaties Jab Cancels started at 0%... Do you have any idea how much that affects things?

You still get ****ed over in midrange by Sheik and Fox either way if they don't ever choose to walk in your Jab range.

I'll give you an example, Fair fast fall cancel to jabs is a true combo..... However say I just spaced it wrong and my Fair hit their shield but I am just outside of their grab range. Back then I would safely do the jab anyways, but now if I jab I'm now vulnerable as pointed out above. Instead of continuing my offensive I would now HAVE to pick a defensive option.

Try and understand that Link, prior to the nerf could actually go on the offensive...

Now try and understand this. Both Shiek and Fox want to get in on Link as they're best up close but what can they do to if Link can just Jab -> Up-tilt? They can't run in because they'll most likely either get hit or clank with jab and they can't jump and attack from above as Up-tilt is such a good anti-air.

Do you get it yet? The match-up was so different back then, Link stood a far better chance.

Link is ****ing high tier now.

...I'm going to stop talking.

 

[DUKEL]

This is the patch thread. This is not place for grudge matches. Take it to social if you're so inclined.

 

[Nimious]

This is the patch thread. This is not place for grudge matches. Take it to social if you're so inclined.

As I said I'm going to stop talking as I was obviously not speaking to someone of right mind.

 

[kro_]

As I said I'm going to stop talking as I was obviously not speaking to someone of right mind.

Well, stop talking then instead of replying again

I saw this picture on Twitter, has Link's grab always been this long? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHeKANVUMAAVFdl.jpg

 

[KirinBlaze]

OH MY GOD I HAVE A THROW I CAN COMBO OUT OF NOW? YES.

 

[DUKEL]

OH MY GOD I HAVE A THROW I CAN COMBO OUT OF NOW? YES.

And a longer grab, too. It's time to celebrate.

 

[link7]

OH MY GOD I HAVE A THROW I CAN COMBO OUT OF NOW? YES.

Still doesn't make up for our jab.

 

[Nimious]

What can Links shield block now or is it the same?

Link's shield now blocks two more things. Villager's Bair now gets blocked along with Zelda's Phantom Slash even when fully charged (I think this wasn't blockable before but not so sure).

Keep in mind somethings that are blockable are only blockable depending on the spacing.

I think the only things that can't be blocked are Luma's star-bits, Game and Watches bucket when used and Pikmin of every colour except purple.

Well, stop talking then instead of replying again

I saw this picture on Twitter, has Link's grab always been this long? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHeKANVUMAAVFdl.jpg

I did stop talking to him two comments ago. What's the point of you telling me to stop when I have?

 

[Dumbfire]

Also his down tilt spike is so weak it shouldn't be called a spike

Yea LNIM is right here, there is still a Dtilt spike but it seems to have been made even weaker. You can test it on Little Mac easily.

Here's a list for everyone still confused:

• Dtilt is now faster, strings better into things (to full hop Uair is a true combo on certain chars on certain percents now without DI). Spike seems to have been made significantly weaker yet.
• Dthrow now has standard 85 degree angle knockback, combos into Utilt and Usmash without DI on certain characters on certain percent.
• The individual hits of Usmash have suction now, so it connects better.
• All ledge trickery has been removed, including the bombslide/dash throw slide-off ((this thing), the faster freefall after using Up B near the ledge (this thing), and SAF, SAFCs (this thing). Ledge stuff like that is out in general, i.e. Zelda's love cancel, Samus' missile cancel, Yoshi's egg cancel &c.
• Link's grab range is longer (according to Zerker out standard / dash grab is now longer than our pivot grab)
• Hylian Shield now blocks Villager's Fair/Bair

Things that might have changed (?)

• Fsmash connecting better on floaties (Rizen's observation, needs corroboration
• Cooldown after grab miss

Now everyone stop posting the same things over and over, and let's test remaining things. Zelkam will be in shortly to save our lives.

 

[Rizen]

An even weaker Dtilt spike?

Link's shield now blocks two more things. Villager's Bair now gets blocked along with Zelda's Phantom Slash even when fully charged (I think this wasn't blockable before but not so sure).

Villager's Bair is new but HS could always block Zelda's phantom. The reason fully charged phantom got through was the sword hitbubble somehow hit Link from behind where his HS wasn't active.

 

[Elessar]

Well, stop talking then instead of replying again

I saw this picture on Twitter, has Link's grab always been this long? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHeKANVUMAAVFdl.jpg

The visual representation was always that long in the 3ds, but it was off. The actual range was shorter, quite shorter. Would you mind checking if the grab range actually matches the visual representation of the chain now? Thanks.

 

[kro_]

The visual representation was always that long in the 3ds, but it was off. The actual range was shorter, quite shorter. Would you mind checking if the grab range actually matches the visual representation of the chain now? Thanks.

I could do that, hold on

EDIT: I haven't paid much attention to it before, but it seems to be pretty tight in 1.0.8. It barely clips through Mario when whiffing, so if this were a problem before, I'd say it's probably better now.

I did stop talking so what would saying that do?

If you had to say that to me you could have PMed me or left a message.

You're also on the patch thread, the grab range is already well discussed leaving your comment entirely pointless.

Are you an idiot?

Ow, no need to be so mean, what have I done to you?

 

[KirinBlaze]

Still doesn't make up for our jab.

Our Jab game is still good. The full jab combo is still an excellent move to create space and just get someone off you. What our Jab 1 game was pre-nerfs was a little ridiculous. The pressure you could apply to shields out of Jab one was insane. As far as comboing with Jabs, Jab 2 into grabs, Utilts, and even Smash Attacks is still very viable. You just need to be aware of percents and where Link is in relation to the other character.

What this character lacked, since launch, was the ability to rack up low percent damage out of a throw like a large portion of the cast was able to. He can now do that and at the same time was given the ability to finish off stocks (Dthrow > UAir), something he also didn't have outside of making reads. I will take this over the Jab changes 12 out of 10 times.

 

[Lawz.]

Our Jab game is still good. The full jab combo is still an excellent move to create space and just get someone off you. What our Jab 1 game was pre-nerfs was a little ridiculous. The pressure you could apply to shields out of Jab one was insane. As far as comboing with Jabs, Jab 2 into grabs, Utilts, and even Smash Attacks is still very viable. You just need to be aware of percents and where Link is in relation to the other character.

What this character lacked, since launch, was the ability to rack up low percent damage out of a throw like a large portion of the cast was able to. He can now do that and at the same time was given the ability to finish off stocks (Dthrow > UAir), something he also didn't have outside of making reads. I will take this over the Jab changes 12 out of 10 times.

Why didn't you go to ECT? I heard the IQHQ crew was coming and I thought you would have come with Will.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Why didn't you go to ECT? I heard the IQHQ crew was coming and I thought you would have come with Will.

I've been busy with work, among other things. I really haven't been able to go out and play much lately. Hoping things change now that the summer is rolling in.

 

[Nimious]

An even weaker Dtilt spike?

Villager's Bair is new but HS could always block Zelda's phantom. The reason fully charged phantom got through was the sword hitbubble somehow hit Link from behind where his HS wasn't active.

Well with the changes it seems like Sakurai doesn't intend for Links to use it to ledge guard not that it worked well before anyways.

Thanks for the correction. I really didn't have enough experience with the match-up against Zelda to tell for sure.

While I don't get why Luma's Starbits (perhaps a future patch?) can't be blocked that would make only explosions and things that latch onto you like thrown Pikmin unblockable. Saying that I haven't looked at things that pierce like Megaman's metal blade or Duck Hunt's Frisbee.

Keeping in mind attacks that are in the gray-zone that can pass HS Links should probably practice and discipline themselves to walk more in some match-ups.

I could do that, hold on

EDIT: I haven't paid much attention to it before, but it seems to be pretty tight in 1.0.8. It barely clips through Mario when whiffing, so if this were a problem before, I'd say it's probably better now.
Ow, no need to be so mean, what have I done to you?

Thanks for answering yes to my question.

I sent you a personal message as the topic was just that, personal. It has little to nothing to do with the patch in question. I did so to try and avoid adding to clutter on this thread however you either do not understand that simple fact or ignored it by bringing the PM into this thread.

If I cannot make it any clearer, if you wish to continue do so in PM, not here.

To answer your question, you are afflicting me with your stupidity.

 

[Iceweasel]

Is the second hit of Fsmash killing earlier? It sure seems like it. From the center of FD, in training mode, a fully charged fsmash (only second hit connected) produces the lightning effect on Mario at 75%, while an uncharged fsmash under the same conditions produced the lightning effect at 113%. How does this compare to pre-patch?

 

[DUKEL]

Is the second hit of Fsmash killing earlier? It sure seems like it. From the center of FD, in training mode, a fully charged fsmash (only second hit connected) produces the lightning effect on Mario at 75%, while an uncharged fsmash under the same conditions produced the lightning effect at 113%. How does this compare to pre-patch?

I don't have anything pre-patch to test this, but that does sound earlier.

 

[Serac]

Is the second hit of Fsmash killing earlier? It sure seems like it. From the center of FD, in training mode, a fully charged fsmash (only second hit connected) produces the lightning effect on Mario at 75%, while an uncharged fsmash under the same conditions produced the lightning effect at 113%. How does this compare to pre-patch?

I made some annotations before the patch and the only moves killing earlier based in what I saw are Usmash and ftilt (this last one on by like 1 or 2%).

 

[Iceweasel]

I made some annotations before the patch and the only moves killing earlier based in what I saw are Usmash and ftilt (this last one on by like 1 or 2%).

0.0 Upsmash has another buff? I noticed that the hits better now, but it kills earlier too? How much earlier does it kill?

 

[Serac]

0.0 Upsmash has another buff? I noticed that the hits better now, but it kills earlier too? How much earlier does it kill?

Taking into account that all hits are landing and that link is in rage and the target is Mario.

1.07 = 108%
1.08 = 100% The strongest hit.

Don´t take this at face value since I believe the rage makes thing somewhat inaccurate.

Also check this.

 

[Elessar]

You have to take into account where you're testing damage and knockback. Don't do it in training. Besides there being no rage it consistently gives damages off by 1% less iirc. Always test in multi-player.

 

[Serac]

You have to take into account where you're testing damage and knockback. Don't do it in training. Besides there being no rage it consistently gives damages off by 1% less iirc. Always test in multi-player.

Got it, it's a shame I couldn't get the exact values but at least could confirm knock back increase. For my test I used in both patches Final destination and Mario landing from the respawn platform.

By the way, would it be viable to heal Link in training mode to perform the tests?

 

[Elessar]

Got it, it's a shame I couldn't get the exact values but at least could confirm knock back increase. For my test I used in both patches Final destination and Mario landing from the respawn platform.

By the way, would it be viable to heal Link in training mode to perform the tests?

What do you mean y healing Link? How would that affect the testing?

 

[8MAN]

Got it, it's a shame I couldn't get the exact values but at least could confirm knock back increase. For my test I used in both patches Final destination and Mario landing from the respawn platform.

By the way, would it be viable to heal Link in training mode to perform the tests?

If you're worried about rage, there's none in training mode. Though as most these guys have already said, you should test in multiplayer with a friend or a CPU.

 

[Serac]

What do you mean y healing Link? How would that affect the testing?

Sorry, I misunderstood your post, I thought that the damage being off was the rage´s fault but as you said it is training mode itself.

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

[Wheo]

For FANS (Link Mains):

1. Dtilt few frames faster.
2. Dthrow knockback direction changed.
3. Dthrow is now good for set ups and fallow ups , also very good to build up pressure.
4. grab range increased.
5.the 3 up smash hits true combos now!
6. upsmash has also more range and hits the oppenent when link stays with the back to them!
7.you can play link now more as a aggressive character.

New follow ups :
1.bomb up throw + Grab(down throw) is a true combo now ( you cant even di from it, when you time it perfectly.

2. bomb up throw + Grab(down throw) + footstole + Nair (jab lock) is a true combo now on low percent (about 10% - 30%)

3. Grab(down throw) true combos in some follow ups at special percent , Example 9.dthrow to up air on sheik(120%).

4. you can chain grab(grab again) the opponent when he airdoges after the Dthrow at low percent (about 0% - 40%)

5. bomb up throw + Grab(down throw) + up Smash is a true combo now and deals about 30 % (works on about 0 % - 30 %)

6. bomb up throw + Grab(down throw) + double Fair is also a true combo now and deals about 30% (Works on about 40 - 60 %)

7. bomb up throw + Grab(down throw) + backair + backair + up B is a true combo now its hard to perform but it deals about 40 % ! (works about 40 % - 60 %)

8. It seems like Dthrow to uptilt is a true combo at low percent but its not shown as a true combo in training mode (works on about 0-20%)

9. Zair to grab works now much better and it seems almost like a true combo to me its an amzing tool now!


Percent difference :
Dtilt 12% -> 11%
Dashattack 13/12% -> 14/13%
Dthrow 7% -> 6%

i think sakurai daddy noticed that link is too bad with this jab nerf and he gave him some great new things(options) that wen can play him more in competetive smash (:
i am sorry i have my final exams soon and cant upload videos for a month so pls be a bit patient (:

PLS SHARE LIKE IT SO EVERY ONE CAN SEE IT! thats just my first experience with the new link but i will also try to find new things out soon when i have the time so dont miss the upcoming videos in the future

greetings from WheO thanks for all the support out there your awesome guys

sory for the double post was a missclick pls delete the second one :/

 

[Elessar]

For FANS (Link Mains):

1. Dtilt few frames faster.
2. Dthrow knockback direction changed.
3. Dthrow is now good for set ups and fallow ups , also very good to build up pressure.
4. grab range increased.
5.the 3 up smash hits true combos now!
6. upsmash has also more range and hits the oppenent when link stays with the back to them!
7.you can play link now more as a aggressive character.

New follow ups :
1.bomb up throw + down throw is a true combo now ( you cant even di from it, when you time it perfectly.

2. bomb up throw + down throw + footstole + Nair (jab lock) is a true combo now on low percent (about 10% - 30%)

3. Dthrow true combos in some follow ups at special percent , Example 9.dthrow to up air on sheik(120%).

4. you can chain grab(grab again) the opponent when he airdoges after the Dthrow at low percent (about 0% - 40%)

5. bomb up throw + down throw + up Smash is a true combo now and deals about 30 % (works on about 0 % - 30 %)

6. bomb up throw + down throw + double Fair is also a true combo now and deals about 30% (Works on about 40 - 60 %)

7. bomb up throw + down throw + backair + backair + up B is a true combo now its hard to perform but it deals about 40 % ! (works about 40 % - 60 %)

8. It seems like Dthrow to uptilt is a true combo at low percent but its not shown as a true combo in training mode (works on about 0-20%)

9. Zair to grab works now much better and it seems almost like a true combo to me its an amzing tool now!


Percent difference :
Dtilt 12% -> 11%
Dashattack 13/12% -> 14/13%
Dthrow 7% -> 6%

i think sakurai daddy noticed that link is too bad with this jab nerf and he gave him some great new things(options) that wen can play him more in competetive smash (:
i am sorry i have my final exams soon and cant upload videos for a month so pls be a bit patient (:

PLS SHARE LIKE IT SO EVERY ONE CAN SEE IT! thats just my first experience with the new link but i will also try to find new things out soon when i have the time so dont miss the upcoming videos in the future

greetings from WheO thanks for all the support out there your awesome guys

Do take some time to read previous posts; you aren't the center of the universe. Not only have you not provided new info (still, thanks for confirming everything we already knew), but you did what we already had asked repeatedly to no be done, theory crafted in the patch thread.

Read the posts in the threads you post in before posting.

 

[Wheo]

i started reading but the was much talk about some things which wasnt focused on the patch so i just posted what i posted also on my twitter and facebook page. dont be mean to me elessar, i am just trying to help people and you always complain about me and i did nothing to you and it hurts me every time you doing this. i can also stop posting anything here if you want this. i am doing this to help the community and not to be the center of the universe stop this trash talk it hurts me. there are so many people who posted none sense things on this thread but you always complain only about me and that makes me said can you tell me pls what i did to you that you hate every of my posts no matter what i am writting ?

 

[Dumbfire]

Shhhh, poor ol' Elessar is a little demented and likes to LARP as mod, we entertain his delusions for his sanity's sake.

 

[Elessar]

i started reading but the was much talk about some things which wasnt focused on the patch so i just posted what i posted also on my twitter and facebook page. dont be mean to me elessar, i am just trying to help people and you always complain about me and i did nothing to you and it hurts me every time you doing this. i can also stop posting anything here if you want this. i am doing this to help the community and not to be the center of the universe stop this trash talk it hurts me. there are so many people who posted none sense things on this thread but you always complain only about me and that makes me said can you tell me pls what i did to you that you hate every of my posts no matter what i am writting ?

I don't hate you and I don't want you to stop posting, or else I would told you outright. As you could've have noticed I am quite direct and don't beat around the bush (that means, I don't waste time with indirect comments and hinting). My post was precisely because you weren't truly contributing and added clutter with your theorycrafting. We went over this with other people and you yourself confirmed that all the non patch talk is annoying and distracting, then went ahead and made a huge non patch talk.

Also, it's not personal so don't take it that way. I treat everyone the same so no, I don't have anything against you. However, do read the posts in a thread before you post, even if they bore you, or else you runt he risk of cluttering ans spamming.

 

[MurderousJohnny]

I'm a newb who only plays for glory. Update has been pretty cool. Like on a casual level messing with people is easy now that grab is so reliable compared to before. My win rate has increased due to the update. Anyway I think up tilt might be faster. I've been landing it a lot more after update against very fast characters like fox and shiek. How do you test frame data for a move?

 

[Iceweasel]

I'm a newb who only plays for glory. Update has been pretty cool. Like on a casual level messing with people is easy now that grab is so reliable compared to before. My win rate has increased due to the update. Anyway I think up tilt might be faster. I've been landing it a lot more after update against very fast characters like fox and shiek. How do you test frame data for a move?

You either a) disassemble the update files, or b) set training mode to 1/4 (hold L) and tap very lightly. The second one is very unreliable, and almost always advances 2-4 frames. In fact, I'm fairly certain it's programmed to not advance one frame at a time, because there have been times I've clearly pressed enough on the button to trigger the L input, yet it didn't advance a single frame.

 

[DUKEL]

You either a) disassemble the update files, or b) set training mode to 1/4 (hold L) and tap very lightly. The second one is very unreliable, and almost always advances 2-4 frames. In fact, I'm fairly certain it's programmed to not advance one frame at a time, because there have been times I've clearly pressed enough on the button to trigger the L input, yet it didn't advance a single frame.

There's also the third option of recording all the moves and counting each frame afterwards on a video editing software.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

You either a) disassemble the update files, or b) set training mode to 1/4 (hold L) and tap very lightly. The second one is very unreliable, and almost always advances 2-4 frames. In fact, I'm fairly certain it's programmed to not advance one frame at a time, because there have been times I've clearly pressed enough on the button to trigger the L input, yet it didn't advance a single frame.

I can always get it to skip exactly two frames which is the smallest possible skip. You just have to lightly hit L really quickly. You can access the ones in between by holding L and doing the input as you are letting go of L and just keep trying until it skips forward one frame, then skip by two's from there-on. By doing this you can see every frame of a move and if you know what they look like you can know for certain that the method just described works because it is impossible to pause it on any frame that you've never seen before. Also you know, it matches up with the frame data and stuff, just for further confirmation.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

As mentioned, Link's d-tilt is faster. In terms of frames, it's 3 frames faster; the total frame count is down to 28, from the previous 31. This also reduced the start-up by 2 frames; 11 frames, down from 13.

Frame-by-frame gifs demonstrating:

In addition to this, all of his grabs had their total frame counts reduced. Normal grab down to 61 from 66, dash grab down to 65 from 77, and pivot grab down to 66 from 79. Start-up is the same for all of them though.

Not that that'll stop us from getting punished for whiffing a grab, but it's something else (and I don't think this was mentioned?)