Patch 1.16 Discussion - "The Witch Hunt is over"

[ParanoidDrone]

Finally tinkering with her in training mode and came across something...odd.

vs. Meta Knight dummy @ 30%, dtilt > fair 1 > Twist > ABK > reverse dABK > fair 1 2 3 registered as a full combo.

I know, I was surprised too.

Needless to say, DI will probably throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing. But something this reminded me of is that dABK had a fair amount of hitstun attached to it in order for Bayonetta to get her conversions. Although the angle changed to something much less favorable and the nerfed damage (probably) does something to the hitstun, I think the base properties remain. At the very least, dABK > fair 1 Bullet Arts could tack on some extra damage as a finisher. But the apparently large amount of hitstun attached to dABK seems to leave us with a bit more leeway than I expected.

Unfortunately I lack a person to try DI mixups with so I can't report on that, nor can I experiment with coverage options.

Also, if a new combo thread is ever made to account for the changes, I vote for "The Shadow Remains Cast" as a thread title.

 

[Buddhahobo]

Using foostool is interesting. After a footstool we can use Witch time to punish a get up attack or heel slide to read a roll. Can anyone confirm this? It's just theory to me

If you're close enough to Witch Time, why would they ever attack, though? You read wrong, and you've both lost your witch and probably just got punished for it, wasting the footstool.

Finally tinkering with her in training mode and came across something...odd.

vs. Meta Knight dummy @ 30%, dtilt > fair 1 > Twist > ABK > reverse dABK > fair 1 2 3 registered as a full combo.

I know, I was surprised too.

How much damage did that do?

But yes, it's surprising.

Was it just dummy Metaknight at 30% that this was working on?

 

[11volt]

Finally tinkering with her in training mode and came across something...odd.

vs. Meta Knight dummy @ 30%, dtilt > fair 1 > Twist > ABK > reverse dABK > fair 1 2 3 registered as a full combo.

I know, I was surprised too.

The training mode combo counter is BS.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

If you're close enough to Witch Time, why would they ever attack, though? You read wrong, and you've both lost your witch and probably just got punished for it, wasting the footstool.



How much damage did that do?

But yes, it's surprising.

Was it just dummy Metaknight at 30% that this was working on?

38% total, and I haven't tried other characters yet. I started with Meta Knight because my main, Rosalina, has a bad matchup against him and it's in my interest to see how my other characters perform against him.

I think that on paper, at least, Bayonetta still has combos. Even Heel Slide seems more consistent at high %. (It used to pop people too high for the flip kick to catch them.) dABK's new angle is awful at low % for any followups, but at mid to high % it's possible to punish bad DI with an extended combo.

(EDIT: dtilt > fair 1 > Twist > ABK > ABK > uair does 37% and kills the Meta Knight dummy from 75%. What the hell? Did it kill that early in 1.15 or am I missing something?)

(EDIT 2: Twist 1 > dj fair 1 combos on Meta Knight at 100%, although it's a very tight link. IIRC this wasn't possible before. I guess the knockback changes on Twist were good for something.)

DI and SDI will prove to be the final piece of the puzzle. I'm doing this solo in training mode because I don't have anyone nearby in meatspace to be a target dummy. The SDI multiplier on Witch Twist concerns me in particular. I was able to kill Meta Knight off the top with dtilt > fair 1 > Twist > ABK > dj Twist > ABK > uair starting from 50%. But if it turns out to be possible to SDI Twist on reaction (and let's be honest, there will be plenty of time to read the combo and figure out when the Twist is coming), then that will put Bayonetta in a bad position.

I find myself hoping that the videos produced so far of SDI basically negating Twist completely turn out to be more applicable to practice and training mode than a real match.

Side note: The new knockback on ABK can make it possible to chain two ABK together...in the same direction. It looks rather funny.

Do we know if Twist and ABK still ignore character weight, etc.? I'm assuming yes, but confirmation would be nice.

Final Edit: I used 1/4x speed and a second controller to try and SDI out of Witch Twist and...oddly enough, even though I could SDI out of Twist 1, I could never SDI out of Twist 2. In the interests of full disclosure, I only tried for a few minutes, but it's another odd data point that may be worth investigating further.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

So what're some viable kill options for Bayonetta now?

 

[Buddhahobo]

So what're some viable kill options for Bayonetta now?

Same non W.Twist or Dive Kick related ones she had in 1.1.5.

Bair wasn't touched, she can still edge guard and ledge trump.

The problem is actually (a) getting them into a position where that's a KO and (b) damage output.

 

[Ghidorah14]

So what're some viable kill options for Bayonetta now?

Dtilt-double jump-upair combos at very high % and kills.

 

[Flamegeyser]

Dtilt-double jump-upair combos at very high % and kills.

Don't forget dtilt-> double jump bair, which kills even earlier off the side.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Don't forget dtilt-> double jump bair, which kills even earlier off the side.

I've honestly never tried that before.

I'm guessing that you have to do a quick pivot before double jumping? I've never been good at that.

 

[BJN39]

Speaking as a Zelda main who had to struggle with crappy failing multi-hits for 10 years, I can't say I'm anywhere near pleased with the handling of Witch Twist. At the very least the multihit SDI should have stayed low enough where escaping before the final hit wasn't a thing. Being able to SDI down and make the release point far lower is fine enough.

I was also a little surprised with how low the 236B angle was lowered. I was expecting like, 70. Not 60. It was mentioned somewhere that it will still remain a pretty good burst movement option, like to get down. At least we can get double divekick for 13% I guess?

FAir nerfs seemed really brutal when UAir/BAir are things, particularly BAir, which I was sure was gonna get some 1% damage nerf, but looking them over, the only seemingly reason-less nerf to FAir was the 1F of endlag added. The KB nerf works against the side of stage 0-death ending in FAir, as well as the ceiling kill combos that ended in FAir.

Note: the FAir1 damage nerf did nothing to reduce the hitstun. Enjoy your FAir combos as was.

Note 2: The KB edits to Witch twist final hit lend 1F more hitstun at 0%, and if you couldn't flee the move before the last hit, usage 1 knocks farther a lot later, which would be considered a good thing.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Speaking as a Zelda main who had to struggle with crappy failing multi-hits for 10 years, I can't say I'm anywhere near pleased with the handling of Witch Twist. At the very least the multihit SDI should have stayed low enough where escaping before the final hit wasn't a thing. Being able to SDI down and make the release point far lower is fine enough.

I was also a little surprised with how low the 236B angle was lowered. I was expecting like, 70. Not 60. It was mentioned somewhere that it will still remain a pretty good burst movement option, like to get down. At least we can get double divekick for 13% I guess?

FAir nerfs seemed really brutal when UAir/BAir are things, particularly BAir, which I was sure was gonna get some 1% damage nerf, but looking them over, the only seemingly reason-less nerf to FAir was the 1F of endlag added. The KB nerf works against the side of stage 0-death ending in FAir, as well as the ceiling kill combos that ended in FAir.

Note: the FAir1 damage nerf did nothing to reduce the hitstun. Enjoy your FAir combos as was.

Note 2: The KB edits to Witch twist final hit lend 1F more hitstun at 0%, and if you couldn't flee the move before the last hit, usage 1 knocks farther a lot later, which would be considered a good thing.

I tried to SDI out of my own Witch Twist in training mode with a second controller and 1/4x speed and oddly enough I could only do it on Twist 1, not Twist 2. I'm not really sure why. Is it possible only the first Twist got the SDI multiplier increase? The patch notes imply it's on both...

 

[Astrofallz]

38% total, and I haven't tried other characters yet. I started with Meta Knight because my main, Rosalina, has a bad matchup against him and it's in my interest to see how my other characters perform against him.

I think that on paper, at least, Bayonetta still has combos. Even Heel Slide seems more consistent at high %. (It used to pop people too high for the flip kick to catch them.) dABK's new angle is awful at low % for any followups, but at mid to high % it's possible to punish bad DI with an extended combo.

(EDIT: dtilt > fair 1 > Twist > ABK > ABK > uair does 37% and kills the Meta Knight dummy from 75%. What the hell? Did it kill that early in 1.15 or am I missing something?)

(EDIT 2: Twist 1 > dj fair 1 combos on Meta Knight at 100%, although it's a very tight link. IIRC this wasn't possible before. I guess the knockback changes on Twist were good for something.)

DI and SDI will prove to be the final piece of the puzzle. I'm doing this solo in training mode because I don't have anyone nearby in meatspace to be a target dummy. The SDI multiplier on Witch Twist concerns me in particular. I was able to kill Meta Knight off the top with dtilt > fair 1 > Twist > ABK > dj Twist > ABK > uair starting from 50%. But if it turns out to be possible to SDI Twist on reaction (and let's be honest, there will be plenty of time to read the combo and figure out when the Twist is coming), then that will put Bayonetta in a bad position.

I find myself hoping that the videos produced so far of SDI basically negating Twist completely turn out to be more applicable to practice and training mode than a real match.

Side note: The new knockback on ABK can make it possible to chain two ABK together...in the same direction. It looks rather funny.

Do we know if Twist and ABK still ignore character weight, etc.? I'm assuming yes, but confirmation would be nice.

Final Edit: I used 1/4x speed and a second controller to try and SDI out of Witch Twist and...oddly enough, even though I could SDI out of Twist 1, I could never SDI out of Twist 2. In the interests of full disclosure, I only tried for a few minutes, but it's another odd data point that may be worth investigating further.

It's very possible
https://youtu.be/dDIkP9laFa8

I'd argue that Twist 2 is almost unusable now. Don't even need to use SDI I've heard, just DI in the correct direction. Twist 2 has to be SDI'd up not down.

 

[Flamegeyser]

I've honestly never tried that before.

I'm guessing that you have to do a quick pivot before double jumping? I've never been good at that.

Yuh huh, In the 110%-130% range you only have to jump once. It's a nice kill option methinks.

Speaking as a Zelda main who had to struggle with crappy failing multi-hits for 10 years, I can't say I'm anywhere near pleased with the handling of Witch Twist. At the very least the multihit SDI should have stayed low enough where escaping before the final hit wasn't a thing. Being able to SDI down and make the release point far lower is fine enough.

I was also a little surprised with how low the 236B angle was lowered. I was expecting like, 70. Not 60. It was mentioned somewhere that it will still remain a pretty good burst movement option, like to get down. At least we can get double divekick for 13% I guess?

FAir nerfs seemed really brutal when UAir/BAir are things, particularly BAir, which I was sure was gonna get some 1% damage nerf, but looking them over, the only seemingly reason-less nerf to FAir was the 1F of endlag added. The KB nerf works against the side of stage 0-death ending in FAir, as well as the ceiling kill combos that ended in FAir.

Note: the FAir1 damage nerf did nothing to reduce the hitstun. Enjoy your FAir combos as was.

Note 2: The KB edits to Witch twist final hit lend 1F more hitstun at 0%, and if you couldn't flee the move before the last hit, usage 1 knocks farther a lot later, which would be considered a good thing.

Double Divekick is super easy to escape, and given how it's the only option that you can go for, everyone's gonna escape it.

I can't believe they didn't touch bair, uair, or nair to be honest. Obviously they hit they moves that everyone was ******** about, but given how much they clearly don't care about bayo, I figured they'd neuter those too. It's a shame, but it's almost all we have left. I guess fair3 was nerfed because of 9B or something. If all it takes to nerf a character is show them some top tier footage, let's show the dev team Rosa's 0-death on Sheik like Dabuz did, or anything like that. It might not buff Bayonetta, but it's the only thing I can think of anymore, because logic and reason doesn't appear to be working.

 

[AkiraGr]

I was in the lad all day today, trying to figure out new combos. The SDI multiplier destroyed any real combos, except a classic 2 hit like a dtilt>fair and similar variants. Guys they wanted the character destroyed they got their wish. I only keep false hope that they nerfed her now to stop the ******** and buffed her up to normalcy in a future update... I highly doubt it, except the fans of the character create some noise, like all the other did this to us.

 

[AAA Battery]

I don't know about you guys, but I refuse to let the witch hunts end. I grew a personal fondness for the character. She may not be game-breaking anymore, but that at the same time, that compelled me to not main her anyway.

I can still pull off some decent damaging combos regardless of DI. Plus she meshes with my playstyle perfectly now. Using Side B on the ground combos into Witch Twist and then Forward Air which nets 30%. And thanks to Bullet Arts, you can force your opponent to approach. Once you get to around 60%, she gains some interesting kill confirms. You can D-Tilt to Witch Twist and F-Air and Normal After Burner Kick, Witch Twist, F-Air, ABK, and Up Air. I tried this on a human player, and apparently he couldn't find a way to escape it. He may have had improper DI, so someone else may have to help test this.

Other options for high percent could be DABK to ABK to Up Air or Back Air. Or if their shield-happy, Bayonetta has a decent kill throw in her Forward Throw.

But if all else fails... you can always use Witch Time on an anticipated attack for an early Dair kill or a meaty smash attack. Just sharing some finds I have. I've yet to uncover Bayonetta's max potential though. But I'll keep at it until I hit that ceiling.

 

[Astrofallz]

I don't know about you guys, but I refuse to let the witch hunts end. I grew a personal fondness for the character. She may not be game-breaking anymore, but that at the same time, that compelled me to not main her anyway.

I can still pull off some decent damaging combos regardless of DI. Plus she meshes with my playstyle perfectly now. Using Side B on the ground combos into Witch Twist and then Forward Air which nets 30%. And thanks to Bullet Arts, you can force your opponent to approach. Once you get to around 60%, she gains some interesting kill confirms. You can D-Tilt to Witch Twist and F-Air and Normal After Burner Kick, Witch Twist, F-Air, ABK, and Up Air. I tried this on a human player, and apparently he couldn't find a way to escape it. He may have had improper DI, so someone else may have to help test this.

Other options for high percent could be DABK to ABK to Up Air or Back Air. Or if their shield-happy, Bayonetta has a decent kill throw in her Forward Throw.

But if all else fails... you can always use Witch Time on an anticipated attack for an early Dair kill or a meaty smash attack. Just sharing some finds I have. I've yet to uncover Bayonetta's max potential though. But I'll keep at it until I hit that ceiling.

That first kill confirm you listed won't work on a player will even decent DI/SDI. That's already been debunked by most Bayo mains and ESAM showed how easily it was to escape with Fox (a character who had previously had trouble escaping). Dabk to abk has also been proved unreliable. Mixup at best, if that. I've heard it is completely avoidable.

 

[CupcakeInAcid]

Don't forget about fast fall fair 1 to fsmash at higher percents. If the opponent doesn't react fast enough, it will kill. Interesting mix up, at least.

 

[Astrofallz]

Don't forget about fast fall fair 1 to fsmash at higher percents. If the opponent doesn't react fast enough, it will kill. Interesting mix up, at least.

I'm guessing this is if Bayo doesn't pop up right?

 

[LeifEriksson]

I hated her, the only thing I wanted with nerfs was like some damage reduction and a weight nerf.

But this... it's a little too far, she doesn't even play the same anymore. Diddy still relies on his banana and throw combos, sheik still relies on bouncing fish and needles, so why can't bayo still rely on divekick?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

That first kill confirm you listed won't work on a player will even decent DI/SDI. That's already been debunked by most Bayo mains and ESAM showed how easily it was to escape with Fox (a character who had previously had trouble escaping). Dabk to abk has also been proved unreliable. Mixup at best, if that. I've heard it is completely avoidable.

I know there have been videos flying all over the place showing how DI/SDI can escape Bayonetta's combos, but in the interests of not being completely doom-and-gloom I'd like to point out that escaping via SDI in a controlled environment where you know exactly what's coming and when it's coming is different from doing the same thing in an actual match when you have a lot more to think about at once. I'm sure counterplay will develop, including consistent SDI responses, but I don't think it'll be an instant thing and in the meantime we still have ABK combos to work with even if Twist 2 followups prove fruitless. Twist 1 > ABK > ABK > uair or bair nets a solid 30ish%, hardly something to sneeze at. And Twist 1 can be done OOS to boot - I'd like to see the person that can consistently SDI out of a frame 4 OOS option. Leading with a dtilt poke in footsies and a fair 1 can throw an extra 10% on as well.

I'm also sick to death of everyone proclaiming that Bayonetta is ruined forever. She's been nerfed hard, yes, but yielding so early is not productive.

 

[Purpledebo]

If by "balanced" you mean "unrecognizable" or "completely unlike the character she was conceived to be," then yeah.

i dunno, i've seen Bayonetta players perform at GOML. trust me she's fine.

you just have to "adapt" ;D

 

[Ghidorah14]

i dunno, i've seen Bayonetta players perform at GOML. trust me she's fine.

you just have to "adapt" ;D

Dont you have stages you need to go fall through or something?

 

[jaimex2]

i dunno, i've seen Bayonetta players perform at GOML. trust me she's fine.

you just have to "adapt" ;D

This is true, Bayoneta players are all about the "adapt" mantra so she'll be fine going forward.

Witch time is still the best counter in the game.

 

[AkiraGr]

i dunno, i've seen Bayonetta players perform at GOML. trust me she's fine.

you just have to "adapt" ;D

Either way you will never be anything more than a troll in smash thread, we will adapt, but people like you are destroying the game.

This is true, Bayoneta players are all about the "adapt" mantra so she'll be fine going forward.

Witch time is still the best counter in the game.

Ignorance is a bliss I guess. Adaption is something that needs time. Did the community adapted to Bayonetta? No They asked for nerfs day one. So please at least go troll to another thread we are trying to learn athing or two here about our character of choice go play Sonic Boom or something.

After all this I really blame Nintendo for giving this kind of players the ability to float in a meta game full of nerfs.

The dtild>fair>ABK>UpB>RABK>JUpB>UpAir kind of works but it is precedence depended and with rage is kind of impossible but a good option for mix ups I guess.

We need to try video tutorials for new strategies to adapt in this situation.

 

[RedMarf78]

So is it confrimed without a doubt that WT2 is basically useless against competent opponents?

 

[AkiraGr]

So is it confrimed without a doubt that WT2 is basically useless against competent opponents?

Yes it is already confirmed. Bayonetta gets a SDI multiplier of x2 and you can avoid her very easy now. The character completely changed. i am having big trouble to play her as a bait and switch style because it doesn't work with her existing tools.

Her Landing lag and the telegraph moves are a sign to the opponent to simply SDI or DI and run for a grab or a quick smash. She is a punching bug if you simply miss a hit and now that she is nerfed even the most slow reaction player can punish you...

 

[Lorde]

This is probably super old news (if be surprised if it's not), but I believe uair combos are going to see a lot more mileage now. If you can land a uair (it's definitely not easy, but I'm sure there are ways to do it; RAR could work, and it seems the back hit is easier to combo with for whatever reason), you can chain a bunch of them together. At mid percents (~40% on Ike, ~50% on Mario), uair>uair>uair is a true combo for 27%, and uair>uair>bair does 31%. Both combos can be extended (uair x3>witch twist>ABK stuff and uair>uair>bair>witch twist>stuff), but that's stuff's all super easy to DI now, so it's not too important.

Even easy combos like back hit uair>bair do 22%, which is a nice chunk of damage, and it even combos (on Ike at least) at kill percents if you double jump before you bair.

DI is definitely a factor, and I doubt any of these combos are guaranteed, but I can see them being useful, especially since I've never seen a top Bayonetta player use uair as a combo starter like that (although, I nearly never watch tournament matches). Most Bayonetta players were only concerned with low percent death cheese, she's actually pretty unexplored in a lot of areas.

The nerfs are definitely extreme, but I think Bayonetta may be able to stay at least partially relevant if we explore all of her options and stop relying so heavily on her old combos and combo starters. If Bayonetta is to survive in the competitive scene, her playerbase must become much more creative.

 

[BJN39]

Yeah Bayo gameplay is going to be seriously changed, but she has pretty good turtling. It'll probably change what her player base looks like tbh. Probably see more people who are comfortable with turtling as her.

I think there may be more reliance on normals for attacking now, with specials coming out a bit more like surprise attacks to try and catch people forgetting them and failing escape DI/SDI. It's a kind of tactic taken advantage by Zelda with Elevator (up b combo). If the opponent is thinking about Elevator, DIing it is hilariously easy. You have to make them think about Fsmash or Usmash first and then catch them.

Simple BnB mixups like Dtilt and then choosing between FAir(1 or all)/Up B/Side B then varying choice followups for some damage at a time. Since I wouldn't say there is a foolproof DI choice to thwart all three of those options.

Also heel slide wasn't nerfed at all in 1.1.6, and still does good damage/combos and didn't get crap 2x SDI.

 

[LeifEriksson]

Now we can all can play her without being called a tier *****, so that's good news.

inb4 someone calls me out for playing Ryu

 

[Appledees]

https://vid.me/7AIa

Not sure if this was posted yet but this looked interesting. The Fair change could lead to some interesting strings maybe and of course you could probably SDI out of both of the Witch Twists but I feel there's still some stuff this witch can do with her changes.

We'll just have to keep experimenting I suppose.

 

[pikazz]

https://vid.me/7AIa

Not sure if this was posted yet but this looked interesting. The Fair change could lead to some interesting strings maybe and of course you could probably SDI out of both of the Witch Twists but I feel there's still some stuff this witch can do with her changes.

We'll just have to keep experimenting I suppose.

it DOES look interesting, but please remember that we need to count in SDi which CAN destroy the combo on the UpBs.
but the first part of it looked solid in my part

 

[Funbot28]

https://vid.me/7AIa

Not sure if this was posted yet but this looked interesting. The Fair change could lead to some interesting strings maybe and of course you could probably SDI out of both of the Witch Twists but I feel there's still some stuff this witch can do with her changes.

We'll just have to keep experimenting I suppose.

Sadly, without DI or SDI put in place, this death combo cannot be validated (especially on the second Witch Twist), although the falling UAir was something I never thought could be used mid-combo, very interesting.

 

[AAA Battery]

Anyone can send me a link to how DI affects Bayonetta's 2nd Witch Twist? Worst case scenario, I may just try and solo Yoshi if it really is that bad.

 

[BJN39]

Dtilt > FH FAir1 > falling UAir is a thing I believe, and a really legit one. (Once I confirm it)

I think I messed around a while ago--it can be difficult to quickly and consistently FAir1 > falling UAir like that, but I almost think it would be possible to FAir1 > falling UAir > FAir1 > falling UAir repeatedly. Then you could just double UAir after a falling UAir.

Cuts off at mid percents.

2 FH FAir1 > falling UAirs into a double UAir would be ~32% and you could follow it with Witch Twist and one AKB for extra damage if you're lucky.

Could be set up by anything that nicely places the opponent in a good spot for FH FAir1.

But take that with a grain of salt arm because I hadn't done hitstun calcs to see if FAir1 > falling UAir really is frame guaranteed. I wanna say yes though because if that ol' pre-1.1.6 9B 0-death where he carries the opponent to the size blastzone using it.

Edit: quick tests show that if you land the inner part of FAir 1 (the part the does the most hitstun. Note: the inside hitboxes deal higher hitstun) then a perfect falling UAir will be completely true. That accounts for UAir hitting frame 11-13, where it will be above her.

The followup second FH FAir idea looks doubtful. 7F FAir, 4F jumpsquat, and 12F landing lag already just reach the frame total of hitstun UAir deals at 0%, and that doesn't account for the frames before you hit the ground after hitting with UAir. Can't say yet whether a little accumulated percent might alleviate the problem though.

 

[Kirby Phelps (PK)]

If I land a successful grounded side-B with the kick, is using Witch Twist afterward still a good option? What should be followed up afterward?

 

[FreakyPlace]

What do you guys think of this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7WmpQruqU8 this doesnt take sdi or di into account since its on a cpu but its an idea

 

[redcometchar]

What do you guys think of this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7WmpQruqU8 this doesnt take sdi or di into account since its on a cpu but its an idea

Go back and read the first few posts of the thread.

Anyway so I dont know if this is already known but if you hit just the first hit of witch twist you can combo into pretty much whatever you want. Another witch twist, fallin nair, up air, bair, footstool, abk anything. The spacing is tight but ive got a pretty good method of getting used to it.

With some characters you can buffer it after a grounded footstool and get just the first hit. on other characters you can do a jump and then up b really low to the ground to land it. Its also possible while airborne.

I think this might play into bayonetta's new b&b. Its just one hit so it can't be sdi'd to crap and di doesnt effect it much either.

I also think fair-> footstool is going to be a big part of her new b&b. You can bair lock non fast fallers after the footstool. Fast fallers can be bair locked after a first hit up b-> footstool.

 

[Funbot28]

So I am not sure if the MK player was not properly Di/SDI'ing but the first and last match give me hope that some of her comboes can be used in tournament play still:

 

[CupcakeInAcid]

I'm guessing this is if Bayo doesn't pop up right?

Yea, if fair is fast falled, bayo doesn't pop up.

 

[Dark_Ky]

So I am not sure if the MK player was not properly Di/SDI'ing but the first and last match give me hope that some of her comboes can be used in tournament play still:

I am sorry but thats just wishful thinking :/
its very obvious that noones going to DI/SDI out of Bayos combos properly on the first week after the patch..
even if its quite easy to do though lol. people gonna learn the matchup pretty soon.

we shouldnt rely on our opponent not knowing the matchup and start figuring out new guaranteed combos or at least setups..

letting go hurts I know :/