Parachute Parade! - GnW Social Discussion

[UTDZac]

WTF?! IDK how the heck that could have happened!

Marth got hit.
Pika grabbed marth.
Pika got hit.
Marth got released.

 

[Alphicans]

Yeah :/. At the time I had no idea wtf happened and I was super salty.

 

[-LzR-]

Can't find any doubles matches on YT. I'll see if I have some on my wii...

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Hey G&W's AML's G&W is pretty good. He doesn't have many videos, but he goes to GA tournaments and places top 10 most of the time, and GA isn't an easy region so he does well. He just needs more experience and less pride, and he will probably be a top 5 G&W soon.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Coolness. Never heard of him... Is he relatively new?

 

[Grey Belnades]

^This. If he's new and already placing in the top 10, then I think I have a new idol to add to my list.

This AML fellow may give us surviving GWers the spirit boost we need.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Coolness. Never heard of him... Is he relatively new?

No, he's been going to tournaments for a couple years now. He just needs to learn how to be more patient and not be afraid to time people out, so less pride. His punishes are great though, I think he might just need a bit more matchup experience, and he's good to go. Maybe you can give him some tips. I'll make sure he comes and talks to you guys.

^This. If he's new and already placing in the top 10, then I think I have a new idol to add to my list.

This AML fellow may give us surviving GWers the spirit boost we need.

Yep

 

[Gardex]

Ok time to beat some swedes this weekend.

Armada in Melee too.

 

[FrozenRoy]

A note about my star rankings: The descriptions are just to give you an idea about what it might contain and shouldn't be considered gospel truth that all sets within have all elements of it. Mostly, consider what the numbers mean. 10 is best, 0 is worst, 5 is average, 6 above average etc

Star Rating Explanation​

- 10 Stars(1 Ranked): Yes, I actually give out ten stars. 10 star represents the best movesets and usually have a strong playstyle, excellent execution, cool concept or the like, and on top of that, usually have something I personally find exceptional, be it from exceptional character (which can easily put a high 9 into 10), exceptional execution of a tough concept, an exceptionally creative concept or so on. These are rare, but I usually put out about 1 a contest.

- 9 Stars (9 Ranked): Nine Star may sit a tier below, but these sets are still quite amazing, and represent the "top" tier below "best". These sets share similar qualities to a 10 star set, tight knit playstyles and/or cool concepts and/or amazing execution or the like, but they usually have a collection of little nagging problems or a single large problem that keep them from the coveted 10 stars, or they lack "exceptionality" that pushes them over the top.

- 8 Stars(6 Ranked): Eight star sets usually contain some greatness, for it is the "Great" tier below "Top", but they have flaws which I cannot overlook, characterization issues, weaker concepts or execution and so on, which keeps them more on the level of great sets that may not be as fondly remembered later on.

- 7 Stars(9 Ranked): Seven star is "good", the sets that you see and think "that's good", but just don't hit the marks of greatness. Maybe it's a lack of expansion of the concept, a shaky execution, no heart in the characterization, or some lackluster sections, but these sets simply stay in the spot of good, not great. Usually, sets with a lot of good and a lot of bad tend to end up here or in 6/5 as well.

- 6 Stars(15 Ranked): Six star is "above average". They're better than your average set, sure, but they don't exactly speak to me, or are heavily flawed, or are simply average sets with just enough enjoyment to them to put them a smidge higher, or what have you.

- 5 Stars(6 Ranked): Five stars is "average". It's hard to describe average, but that's what it is, something in the middle that I don't find especially good or bad, such as a moveset with a little good and a little bad, a general moveset that doesn't do anything offensive, or something with such large drops between good and bad that I can't get behind it either way. Average.

- 4 Stars(4 Ranked): For 4 stars, it is "below average". It isn't horribly bad or anything, but it's getting there, issues are starting to outweigh positives, maybe the characterization is far off your average-ish set, you've got some unavoidable number issues or your execution just wasn't up to snuff, but I can't get behind the set, though these sets fairly often have hidden gem concepts to be shined by later movesets.

- 3 Stars(10 Ranked): Three stars is when we get into "bad". These movesets actively detract from me a good deal and begin to lose redeeming elements, and often contain multiple large issues, such as terrible execution, lacking playstyle and bland or bad characterization, yet they lack the means to be truly, memorably bad.

- 2 Stars(11 Ranked): Two stars is "Bottom", and you've about hit rock bottom and have numerous issues that probably require large scale changing of your moveset, yet you lack the exceptional awfulness characteristic of the truly terrible 1 star movesets, and you usually fail to break the game.

- 1 Star(4 Ranked): At one star, the moveset is LOOOOOOOOATHED ENTIIIIIIIIIIIRELY.

---

Ranked Movesets

Number of MYM17 Sets Ranked: 72

Matador
**********
10/10

RankCom: Olé! Matador is a simply excellent set that, to me, encapsulates how Make Your Move has been evolving over the past few contests. Red Capote, Focus and Taunt are a trio of extremely fun buff/debuffs with great focus, what feels like exquisitely balanced bonuses that creates a fun playstyle, but Smash Daddy not only mixes them in great and creative ways with his Hell Portal, but I simply adore all the ways that he utilizes high level Smash tactics in the set and gameplay elements it feels far too rare to see. This set explores abilities such as foxtrots, pivots and Sm4sh-esque intangibility in glorious ways, it has one of the best executed chain grab style throws we have ever seen in Up Throw, one of the rare great non-Special Counter moves and things like how well Forward Aerial can be used at a high level while still remaining simple and elegant to use outside of it. The balance is iffy at points, but I feel it is fine, and I love how he feels like he has a key weakness without plenty of setup or very exquisite, technical play in his lack of KO power outside of risky moves or high setup, high octane tech plays, which furthermore feels great to fit with Matador's characterization as requiring a sort of arrogance in the setups and very technical skill to pull off the kind of flashy plays you'd expect from, well, a matador. Surely one of Smady's finest unless I missed something major.

Jecht
*********
9/10

RankCom: Jecht is an incredibly unique set that is not apparent on the surface. It is one of the most aerial focused sets in Make Your Move since Smady's own Albert Wesker and Waterga creates an incredibly unique aerial enviroment to fight in that free flight sets have dreamt of without losing balance to it. Blitzball is an incredibly fun combination of projectile tennis and boomerang style projectiles that brings to mind Tenshi's boomerang blade and Sloth's boulder in terms of lag cancelling shenanigans and Jecht's Jecht Shot Up Special is an incredibly fun take on Cloud's Cross Slash/Marth's Dancing Blade with an aerial focus. The simple interactions of the UJS' meteor combined with Waterga give Jecht's melee and aerials incredible depth that elevates it beyond your bog standard boulder, especially when you get into really crazy and fun stuff when you use Jecht Shot to ride your meteor upside down, angle Forward Tilt in crazy ways and more. I can't go over every move, but there was no single move in this set I actively disliked.

This set also is noticable for getting across the incredibly manliness of the character and how he casually considers himself the best, with stuff like Down Aerial, Forward Throw, things like the way he can ride a meteor upside down or how he effortlessly goes through the water, or even how he has a special badass breaststroke for swimming. Concerns I have with this set include a few parts of uneasy wording, some minor balance worries as it feels his neutral might be a bit too strong and that while not bad, I do feel that the grab game was a bit below the par of the rest of the set, although not really worth changing unless some major issue comes out.

Lord Galf
********
9/10

RankCom: Galf is surely one of Warlord's best sets, largely owing to the inventive and strong melee game which tackles the idea of the combo heavyweight in a very enjoyable manner. The rage here is pretty inventive and I like the way the lag reduction works here, giving Galf a one attack-ish, almost Limit Break-like state. The Jab is a particular pinnacle of Galf's melee game to me, repeating into variable jab end is pretty rare, the combinations all have fun and unique niches and making it a rather "flashy" yet not stupid jab to fit it being his one attack against Kenshiro is pretty nice. The characterization is outstanding here, with Galf's insane obsession with dogs brought to its fullest, I especially love the back throw where he just plays with the dog and gets upset if the foe interrupts, and even uses rabies to turn villagers into dogs to SLIGHTLY care for them. Some worries like some weirdness of the villager pummel are here and there, but for larger worries, I did feel it was perhaps a bit too easy to get the dog collar on with non-SSpec moves and that his potential to both be a fast combo character and powerful heavyweight is perhaps a bit strong, but this is kept in place by not making him as strong as some other heavies. Dogs confirmed > cars.

Zer0
*********
9/10

RankCom: Zer0 does a lot with his set, with a rather spiffy and fitting presentation, multiple nuances to all of his Specials and taking it up to 11 for multipliers. Things like Be Like Water are great mechanics that could serve as large set basises in and of themselves and while the standards and aerials have some iffy stuff (Nair/Jab and FAir/BAir primarily), they are done in a way acceptable to me, and things like the Down Tilt and Down Aerial. The set's large amount of damage buffs make balance tricky to figure out however, especially with the large amounts of math in the set.

Haunted Witch Knightly Witch Garnet
*********
9/10

RankCom: Garnet is yet another fine set to come out of the JOE Challenge. The idea of animating the armor and weapons like some kind of old school haunted house or Scooby Doo plot provides a very fun basis, but what pushed this set over the type for me was actually some of the stronger moves unrelated to it, like the graceful fencing moves with Mithril Thorn, the throws which I thought were actually quite fun (especially up and down throw) and some very good aerials, Down Aerial was prominently very important for solidifying my opinion of this set, Neutral Aerial is also fun. The characterization on this set is superb and competes with Metireon for the best of the challenge, with Garnet's snooty exterior contrasting with a rougher interior, and I actually quite love the special taunt (especially how she pulls out coffee if nobody is around). The method of bringing weapons to life is also great. If I had one major complaint with this set, it is that at times it feels like it is missing pieces, in particular another weapon or something (a hammer for power would have been superb) and maybe another magical thing to use with NAir, and that I am very unsure of the spiked shield in general (my favorite weapon was the lance).

RankCom 2: The addition of the new hammer fills in a lot of the holes Garnet felt like she had, adds even more character to the set and overall feels like a large fix to the set. The back aerial also adds a bit of a missing puzzle piece to me. Since a large part of my complaints were it feeling incomplete, this gave it a rather large bump.

Metireon
********
9/10

RankCom: Metireon is a rather fascinating set with his giant demonic slab weapon, with Metireon having a rather neat and fascinating self-damage aesthetic and playstyle in mind. This is complimented by the way the slab works, allowing Metireon to potentially shield the damage and be sent flying as a momentum booster. This is used in a lot of pretty fascinating ways for melee like Forward Smash and its follow-ups, Neutral Aerial with its sex...slab, the pretty-dang-cool Up Special and of course the Up Smash/Dash Attack which most specifically give Metireon ground-to-air use. The set wisely tries to instill an aggressive approach to it to try and avoid making it too campy and make the self-damage more dangerous and the demon mini-theme is quite fun, along with a really fun use of buffing to attack shields and moves like Down Tilt to take advantage of it. The moveset does seem potentially too strong given the slab's defensive power, strong damage, solid KO power and lag, there are a few iffy bits like the Back Aerial's additional hitbox and damage worry with Flay, and most importantly the grab game is pretty weak as a section aside from Forward Throw which seems odd when it is the only self-damage-caring move.

RankCom 2: Metireon's grab game was massively improved and it went with some other little improvements like UAir which were welcome. This gives the set a sizable boost overall.

Yangus
*********
9/10

RankCom: Yangus is a pretty expansive minion set that brings to mind a larger scale version of Donnel and even the ancient Badman. Yangus' monsters are quite thought out and interesting, although one worry I have is them being unintuitive, and the fact it feels like some things could swing dramatically based on minions: I don't even mean Metal Slimes, I mean Croakers primarily. Yangus' melee also felt only somewhat above average until the aerials, but I feel like the aerials had a strong focus on fighting the foes that remained mindful of the minions, and I especially loved the very cool Forward Aerial and the Neutral Aerial. Jab is one of the better ground moves and I thought the Side Special was absurdly fun. I thought the boulders and ground chunks felt out of place and I wonder if the set would be improved by removing them with the Bomboulder around as it felt somewhat redundant and more lacking as a Special than a fair deal of the non-Special moves, although it is also not actively bad and so does not drag the set down much. The set has good characterization and Down Throw is pretty hilarious with a fun effect. The Chimaera Wing effect is very fun and reminds me of sets like Ekko, a set where it is more of a main focus instead of here where it is more of a sideshow could be very fun indeed.

Michael
*********
9/10

RankCom: See my advertisement for the set.

Grunty
********
9/10

RankCom: Grunty is a pretty fascinating bullet hell set thanks to its expansive take on the basic idea of the Mr. Game & Watch bucket. It is essentially a big game of create-a-projectile which Grunty pulls off well by only having a few really crazy effects and some cooler other ones and by allowing the foe to also take it and use it for themselves. Quiz Tiles could stand some expansion but are a fun take on the set as essentially being a two-mode trap, although Boom Box was kind of eh but it provides a lot to the projectiles, stuff like how to use the broom is funb and I enjoyed a fair deal of the aerials. A lot of this set's joy is in all the ways you can modify the projectile, of course. Complaints I have with the set could boil down to a bit of a weak game outside the projectile, she has fairly basic keep-away but I would have liked to have seen more, in particular in the Tilts as I did not like the Down Tilt and F-Tilt/U-Tilt felt a bit eh, the last two throws I did not like all that much and I do have a few concerns that her super-pot projectile could end up too good but it is probably fine enough. I do also somewhat worry about the bone making on NSpec on every melee move.

RankCom 2: Warlord has fixed a few issues with this set like a bit more to Boom box/the move and some balance tweaks, letting it move up, and improving the melee some.

Allen O'Neill
*********
9/10

RankCom: Allen O'Neill's missile riding concept brings to mind Salvatore's bullet riding, but takes away the Koala Kong inspiration for a much more interesting travel, projectile manipulation and damage option. Allen's Bullet Arts-esque Machine Gun fire is fun and his bullet hell feels both simple, intuitive, yet deep and fun. I particularly enjoyed the Stick Grenades, which felt like a fun take on Egg Toss that shows how it can be good, and the melee with moves like Neutral Aerial, Down Tilt and Jab. I wasn't a fan of the Pummel however, which felt very tacked on to me, or the Down Aerial. The biggest issue with the set, though, is it feels like it can be overwhelming and overpowered: Allen has answers for almost every situation, an excellent projectile/trap game, very fast and safe moves on the ground and in the air, average or better damage, and average or better KO power.

Chesnaught
********
8/10

RankCom: Chesnaught's tank-heavyweight style is surprisingly refreshing, as he has a healing and trap focus via his Seed Bomb yet is a rather aggressive, anti-camper character. Some impressive Specials, a fun trio of Smashes and some surprisingly good standards and aerials elevate this set quite well. JOE helped fix up the grab game and reduced Chesnaught's anti-camping power with edits, however Needle Arm remains a sore spot in the set.

Doppelganger Tsukika
********
8/10

RankCom: A shockingly fun moveset that plays around a lot with the expectations of a moveset, combining heavyweight damage with lightweight speed, along with heavyweight recovery issues with lightweight KO issues. Her strong damage and knockback numbers, complete with disjointed sword strikes, are countered by her own natural short-lived attacks, terrible defensive options and lack of many combos, the simple use of the rock items and ice is effective and fun, and the set is quite nice visually. In some ways, this feels like a modern, LFP Lexaeus. Balance is tricky with the numbers though, and it does feel like at times it could have been more, or otherwise is a bit lacking in "exceptional" quality. Still a great entry into the list of Kat sets, if you ask me!

Shadow Teddie
*******
8/10

RankCom: Shadow Teddie's Nihil Hand and televisions make a good base, with the televisions biggest draw being the addition of optional porteleportations during moves, and Nihil Hand is a fun and interesting projectile for a base, Kintoji-Douji is also fun but personally I thought the ball form seemed over-emphasized compared to the missile and the second form is, essentially, forgotten after the Special itself. The Smashes and Standards are all good fun, although I will say the moveset feels like it doesn't have huge exceptionality, but the Forward Smash is good fun and the moveset has fun little references sprinkled in. The biggest weakness is the grab game, I feel, which felt full of tacky effects and way more special/wacky than the rest of the moveset, as if you were unsure if the previous stuff would hold up, the magnetism is wholly out of place when it has the same number of inputs as the ice and suddenly Teddie is some kind of spacial manipulator? The aerials also felt a bit filler-y, the Back Aerial feels redundant with the NAir for most purposes, Down Aerial's Nihil Hand bonus feels out of place as the ONLY time it pops up (and I am not sure ST should have a stall than fall? It does work though, so...).

RankCom 2: The new grab game helped make it a lot less bad, although I am still not especially blown away with it, along with a decent deal of cleanup helps elevate the set to around the initial level I thought for it, the Atlantis/Welsh level. These three sets might shuffle some slightly as I get more 7s but this seems right for me right now. Further thought has elevated this set even higher.

Kristoph Gavin
********
8/10

RankCom: Kristoph's expansion on the old, Linebeck-esque AI partner is a refreshing take, but it is the Black Psyche Locks that steal the show, providing a huge amount of like for their often simple yet deep implementation and manipulation, backed by an excellent writing style and some nifty interactions. The set, however, sometimes delves too far into the well for its own good and ends up feeling far too bizarre and the playstyle can at times seem a bit dull without heavy defendant action, and finally the aerials are fairly lackluster.

Varimathras
********
8/10

Adel
********
8/10

Zomom
*******
7/10

RankCom: Zomom's base Specials are really fun, I am very fond of how the battering items + food were integrated together in there, the Mach Tornado-like with the food and one of the cleanest stage-tunnelling moves I can recall in a while, with the smashes largely following suit and some good aerials too. This set largely lost me at the standards: I'm really not fond of Forward Tilt and Up Tilt's interactions and I especially quite disliked Down Tilt, it felt like a playstyle shortcut that goes against how the set therwise functions and is just there for generic strength/interactions. I was also not a fan of the Back Aerial or Up Aerial and some other minor nitpicks, but nonetheless the set's strong base and solid execution in various places made me enjoy it a good deal.

RankCom DX: Lost World Hyper Edition: 2: The newly edited F-Tilt, U-Tilt, U-Air and B-Air generally increase the set a good deal in likeability, but it is bogged down by the fact that honestly the Back Aerial feels somewhat out of place and the effect is tacked on essentially just to have a special ability on the BAir. I found the Up Aerial's simple and fun way of playing with Zomom's item interactions much more fun. The encouragement of frequent mini-stuns with small poots on the BAir is not something I feel really works nicely into the set, even if I do like the idea of a move(s) that work some with smaller food eating. I was also fairly fond of F-Tilt.


Baku the Dream Eater
*******
7/10

MaloMyotismon
*******
7/10

RankCom: MaloMyotismon's illusions and darkness expansion are fun and some interesting moves like Forward Smash, Up Smash and Jab help elevate a playstyle with a mix of bullet hell and bruiser tendancies, along with some fun throws, but the viability of the moveset's darkness and illusionary setup is a bit iffy to me, some of the duplicative moves aren't to my taste and I found the melee did not always fit together as much as I'd like and thus felt disjointed. JOE's discussion of MaloMyotismon's viability have brought the set down some, but it still remains pretty enjoyable.

Atlantis
*******
7/10

RankCom: Atlantis' 5v3-ish concept brings to mind my old Four Horsemen idea and a levy of great ideas are presented in the Specials, along with some pretty sick aerials, and a solid grab game (with HILARIOUS Up Throw image), with the new standards being good but not super amazing or anything, and many of the concepts within the Specials are not explored much, I particularly felt like more could have been done with the 5v3 concept however, as too often the other Devil Chojin feel like little more than props or added on just because. This moveset also suffers from a bit of redundancy that hurts moves, most notably Neutral Special.

Tangrowth
*******
7/10

Diancie
*******
7/10

RankCom: Diancie sets up a strong base with her Specials, which were interactive to a level I did not expect of the resident Jamie set, and I quite like how Moonblast works with the crystals and the Crystal Combination, it is all pretty good stuff, and the Stone Edge/Shining Sword weapon switch feels fine. Many of the moves feel competent, but at the same time many did not jump out me except for their nice animations. The number one thing I would have desired with this set would have been more crystal interactions, maybe on the smashes? They feel a bit forgotten in the set. I also wonder if some more fun could have been had with how transformative the Shining Sword seems to be in the throws for other moves. Much better than Jamie's last crystal princess.

Doppelganger Welsh
*******
7/10

RankCom: Doppelganger Welsh is a fun momentum set that has a lot of aerial momentum and air-to-ground and ground-to-air momentum tricks, something which feels surprisingly rare in the genre (or at least, rarely done well), alongside some signature Kat item manipulation. The tree and vine stuff is pretty fun and I enjoyed how Welsh feels like a bouncing, excitable hero who is all about constantly weaving into the foe for a hit and being a bit overwhelming, but also lacking in range and power, although I do feel like sometimes the set is leaning towards overpowered. This also feels like another set that will probably appeal more to me than most, like Tsukika.

Lickitung
*******
7/10

RankCom: A fine entry into the food genre alongside Madolche Magileine and Grandmatriarchs, Lickitung brings a fun and in-smash take on it with some wonderful food items and effects, even if the flavor can be a bit odd there, and weaves into a fun playstyle of eating and fatness. However, Lickitung perhaps can eat TOO well due to an abundance of food eating moves, dimishing the difficulty perhaps too much, and I was undecided on the food-on-tongue parts of the moveset, and it sadly ended on a somewhat average note on the aerials.

Kappa Tien
*******
7/10

Doppelganger Marina
*******
7/10

RankCom: An interesting entry into the bullet hell genre, Marina feels reminiscent of Melia to me as an elemental mage with an elemental store gimmick and the like (tho Marina's is more magic in general). The Smashes and Standards work pretty well into the standards and mix together some simpleness and the complexity well, but the aerials are just downright BIZARRE in how WACKY they are compared to the entire rest of the set and quite randomly on aerials of all things. Many of the effects aren't bad, Down Aerial aside (why????), but on aerials they are just severely out of place. The grab game is also wholly unforgettable, feels like it gives too many shortcuts for her and ultimately weakens the set.

Goronu
******
6/10

RankCom: Considering that this character has about one minute of screen time in a CD-i game, getting this high alone is impressive and I do enjoy the time shenanigans here, usually when they are paired with more simple fun moves like Forward Tilt which I fairly like. One thing I worried about was the amount skeletons could give and how Goronu could immunize himself from them, but that has been fixed/changed. He also seems like a crazy powerful time master who can recreate legendary items like the Book and Wand despite being not much special to him, and Down Special feels prominent and yet at the same time non-existant until the aerials, as if it wants to be more but was considered too risque. I'm not a big fan of the Dash Attack, which reminds me of the legendary G-Man Brief Case, or the Up Throw, and stuff like the Down Tilt combined with fireballs to get your skeletons to explode and such feels too situational for me for the benefit, stuff like the Forward Smash skeleton buff also feels too minor, and the set at times feels too focused on what it does with its setup rather than fighting the foe. This set also seems to portray Goronu as both a giant CD-i meme and as being more competent than many serious villains at the same time which gives an odd characterization feel and I feel it goes overboard on just using props from the game for existing.

Yomi Mekura
******
6/10

RankCom: Yomi has some interesting enough mechanics with how her seperate/attached styles work, the smoke screen and I rather enjoy her Side Special, plus things like Up Throw's various animations/follow-up styles, some simple but fun follow-ups and things I enjoy like the Marth-esque FAir as a spacer/identifier and I enjoy the way the Forward Tilt's angling works. But it also is a pretty difficult read, for me at least, due to the dry reading style, and I felt it had a bit too much of focus on kunai embedding and things like too much prone/tech chase focus on multiple of the throws. I also have some minor balance concerns, such as UAir's power and F-Smash feeling a bit weak to me. It felt enjoyable but a bit one note to it and I felt a bit lost in how all these setups actually connected unto each other.

Dunban
******
6/10

RankCom: A set with an enjoyable and daresay great mechanic, Dunban is let down hard by some troubling numbers in some of his moves. The Specials in this set create a fun and enjoyable combo game, especially when deployed with his Standards and Smashes, however the aerials and grab game seem to have trouble keeping up with the kinetic pace presented in the earlier sections. The set has moved down slightly due to its low description and some balance concerns.

Alolan Trainer
******
6/10

Lapis Lazuli
******
6/10

Gaige
******
6/10

RankCom: Gaige's Anarchy is an interesting take on a mechanic with "luck", especially with Ricochet involved, and Deathtrap feels like a very unique minion with some fun moves, although at times I felt unsure about what was actually being explained. The Evie is fun and I enjoy the Tesla Bombs and Stormfront Grenades and their Standard interactions, but personally I found Shock Storm really lame and it didn't do anything for me, and the throws weren't that great (aside from the enjoyable Down Throw). I also worry that especially with Ricochet and more Anarchy, Gaige's playstyle eventually becomes TOO chaotic and ends up being a bit cheap or unenjoyable as she floods the screen with a thousand bullets that can ricochet, large damaging fields and a giant hard to deal with minion. It also seems to have a lot of extra hitstun moves in it...

Link Rejoined
******
6/10

RankCom: A significent number of edits pushes Muno's Link Remix higher up, primarily by removing some extremely awkward input placement and adding more flow to Link's aerial game, allowing the moveset to much more easily play off of the set's excellent standards. The Sailcloth removal was addition by subtraction. The set's primary weakness comes from the grab game, which is essentially 3 tech chase throws, with Back Throw being a sense of relief in the sea of it.

Melia
******
6/10

RankCom: Melia's Elemental concept is super awesome and Elemental Burst is great, however Melia is let down heavily by the options of her elementals, which do not have enough differentiation and at times flounder for truly nice effects, and the game outside of her elementals being rather bog standard, although Shadow Stitch is nice with the moveset. The elemental grab game is a spectacular disappointment with no rewards for Elemental management or differentiation between elements.

Piplup
******
6/10

RankCom: Piplup offers some refreshing combo ability with its jab locks, Rain Dance platform play and psuedo-wavedashing, and the set of Specials are stronger than they might appear at first blush, however the set suffers from redundancy, primarily inside of the grab game, some wonky numbers and a bit too much potential lockdown. The ice move additions offered little to me, although they may add some appeal to others.

Togekiss
******
6/10

RankCom: Togekiss is an odd set compared to many where I like the set a lot due to the Standards and Aerials, which I felt combined into quite a fun ground-to-air and air-to-ground game, along with the Wish and Serene Grace zones which felt pretty fun. Ancient Power is described pretty oddly and while I did like the buffs, I endedu p unsure on how to feel about the actual move, and Air Slash sets off my internal meters with the Paralyzerness, the Smashes I actually enjoyed a decent amount after Down Smash's absurdity was somewhat removed, the grab game felt good except for the super filler Down Throw. This overall felt like a set with good and above average stuff mixed in with some iffy stuff, like some of the luck stuff and how Ancient Power works, and an unsure feeling overall. I enjoyed reading it a lot more than Mad Dummy, though.

The Great Papyrus
******
6/10

Honchkrow
******
6/10

RankCom: Honchkrow's Murkrow minions are fairly interesting and I find the way that Honchkrow can order them around like a true mob boss pretty fun, creating some nice and interesting descisions especially in the grab, and Honchkrow has a fairly good air game. But some bizarre effects like the character iffy Swagger, the Shield + B Murkrow command and such hurt the moveset, and finally the stuff outside of the minios/grab/air are rather average, so it is hard to get behind this set a lot.

Doppelganger Shirogane
******
6/10

RankCom: The confusing explanation of Shirogane's mountain aside, the moveset's concept of it is pretty neat and the execution isn't half bad either, albeit it feels like more could have been done with it (especially the Up Smash walls, which feel like they fit better on Down Special), and I do enjoy some of the simple stuff like the Down Aerial, Forward Throw and Up Aerial on the mountain. The aerials and grab game are overall rather lackluster though, aside from the grab game's excellent writing, it ultimately feels like one of those sets with "a little bit better than normal" overall. The healing also feels problematic on him.

The Great Mighty Poo
******
6/10

RankCom: This set has some solid, or I suppose in this case a bit runny, stuff to it, mostly involving knocking around the toliet paper and the Forward Smash tidal wave, and the TP is knocked around in a variety of fairly fun ways. The Side Special is a bit odd as it is fun except for the fact that being smaller is a strict buff, meaning that GMP makes a bunch of traps which he then has to avoid to keep his buffed moveset, only one move actually being worse while small while moves like Down Smash gain tremendous upside. Forward Aerial is fairly random and while not the worst the grab game is pretty bad, with a generic mechanic booster Up Throw, the last paragraph of Down Throw being VERY tacky and Back Throw having a status effect very oddly logically applied. The melee of a lot of the set is also mostly above average more than anything, with the aerials being fairly boring and lacking in depth.ependant on the spears to flow much.

Mad Dummy
******
Six out of Ten, Six out of Ten! SIX OUT OF TEN!!

RankCom: Mad Dummy's stationary dummy minions remind me of my own Alice moveset, and the Smashes aren't bad, but Mad Dummy suffers from a rather thick and unenjoyable writing style which is at times confusing and I did not particularly like the way the standards worked, even if I did enjoy the way Mad Dummy can mix them together, they endup rather average, and the aerials were at times confusing and not especially noteworthy, although I did enjoy Down Aerial. I was quite iffy on the grab game and so ultimately the set presented me some good and a lot of mixed feelings.

Juzo Sakakura
*****
5/10

RankCom: This set is supremely tacky, even beyond that of Kristoph and MaloMyotismon, but not as much as Geno's Down Tilt. This is a moveset where you can take out a chair, set the chair on fire by hitting it with a saw, embed the saw into the chair which sets the saw on fire and then throw the flaming chair against the ground and cause it to explode, sending the flaming saw flying with extreme force. One of the key playstyle elements of this set requires Juzo to Falcon Punch so hard it creates a dimensional rip, murdering himself in the process, but it allows him to use the poison in his wristband designed to kill him to instead murder the foe, so killing yourself can be a boon. Alternately, Juzo can instead chop off his own arm, allowing him to not die when Falcon Punching. Yes, cutting your own arm off is entirely viable.

Some of the stuff Juzo does such as the blood pipe things, the Forward Smash saw, some of the simple throws (and NAir, which I like) and in large part the chair interactions are fun, but this moveset has such extremes that figuring out the balance is a nightmare, even if it is "balanced" I am not sure if it is too EXTREME to really be fun, and the set is also quite unfriendly to new players. The aerials aside from Neutral Aerial and to an extent Forward Aerial are pretty bad, I feel like it leans on sweetspots too much, the tackiness is very high and it has some missed opportunities. It does represent the series tacky and convoluted nature quite well, though.

Elka
*****
5/10

RankCom: Elka's rose-spears are actually kind of interesting, a surprisingly powerful interruption option to make up for the fact that Elka is so deficient elsewhere, a trump card if you will. Stuff like the Down Throw and Dash Attack are pretty fun to work into this as well, and it feels like enough to help him, and the simple rose traps combined with this make Elka sound like a rather fun coward to play, leaving behind your beautiful roses and really hoping they'll be blinded by your beauty. The set's problems are really obvious: Stuff like the last two Standards are rushed feeling/pretty blah, the Down Special is really iffy and feels bad/cheap and the playstyle is very d

Sproink
*****
5/10

RankCom: Although lacking in crucial detail at times, the water interactions in Sproink are fairly nifty and compared to sets like Tropical Freeze seal and Kamen Rider Double have differentiation between them to make them good and some pretty fun flow with the Warlordian pit, and I liked the Forward Smash, however the set has some tenous flow at times and I found the grab game quite dislikable, and the set misses some details at times. Also, it didn't list a fall speed, which I apparently either missed before or forgot to comment.

Excitebike
*****
5/10

RankCom: A rather unexciting set, Excitebike's coast mechanic is fairly nice for a momentum mechanic and there is some good manipulation of it with the Specials and standards, but the overheat mechanic doesn't always come together well and perhaps more importantly, large portions of the aerials and grab game (Including a hateable Up Throw) being so bland make the set rather unexciting overall.

Sandslash
*****
5/10

RankCom: For the most part, the Specials set up a solid base with Dig, Bulldoze, Magnitude and Sandstorm, and I love the Forward Smash sandstorm interaction, stuff like Down Smash also work pretty cool, I enjoy the fact that Bulldoze and Roll-Out have some really fun follow-up and Dig is a solid setup move and a good way of doing it. The standards are also generally pretty neat, simple, clean and effective. The largest and grossest downside of this moveset is simply the tunnels, which don't feel especially well integrated into the set, with odd suction interactions and my general hatred of pitfall traps shining through, it is really mostly disliked bloat to be added on, and I don't see why you wouldn't let him Bulldoze through tunnels or enter them otherwise when he randomly can in the grab game. The aerials past the first two also don't feel like they take advantage of how Sandslash approaches air combat and while it isn't the worst, the pitfall throw doesn't exactly make me thrilled. This set would move up instantly if the tunnels were removed or marginalized/not as heavy or strong of a pitfall.

Soul Skyheart
*****
5/10

RankCom: A rather standard entry into the genre of overpwoered but long cooldown/once per stock moves, Soul's mechanic is interesting enough and it has enough flow to it, but very little stands out and the set feels rather overpowered, or at the least a bit binary in the balance. The writing is fairly fun, mostly at the start, but it has some small nitpicks with me like the Back Throw and pummel. Ultimately, a pretty average set all around.

Tetra
****
4/10

RankCom: Muno removing the very tacky Down Tilt that treated the stage like a plank of wood kept this from going lower, but overall this set feels a bit oddly flavored with the Up Special bombs, the very random Skull Hammer and a mix of high power with pathetically weak tilts, but then F-Tilt KOs at 150%/130%! Zomgs! I actually like the Neutral Special, but I feel making it auto-read DI makes it a bit too easy/automatic and that it would be better if the player could manually aim it and has to read DI, not only adding a fun skill game but also making it a bit easier to balance, and likewise the Side Special could have allowed more follow-ups. The barrel feels very tacky and the melee while okay doesn't feel like it especially works together. I would have liked a lot more of a pirate-y vibe and more interplay of gun and swashbuckle.

RankCom 2: Moved up a fair deal due to much of the tackiness from things like Down Tilt removed and some pirate-y flavor, but I just can't find myself getting excited for it and I still find the bombs incredibly awkward, so I am merely putting it in higher 4 than lower 5, a rather small difference. The Neutral Special is a very fun concept to be used again later and remains the most fun part of the moveset.

Pyrus
****
4/10

RankCom: Pyrus largely suffers from being a very underdetailed set, with parts of the moveset missing damage percentages, but what is there is pretty fun with the simple yet fun gas can stage control, and it feels like there's some pretty good stuff here...if it was expanded upon. The low detail makes it feel difficult to get much of a sense of how his melee game plays out or much outside his gas cans, the pummel should probably be a throw (Would be easy to replace the nothingness D-Throw) and a lot of the set can be interpretted as a meme with the underdetail and some ambiguous wording, usually involving "interrupting attacks".

The Experiment & Little Girl
****
4/10

RankCom: The Experiment has some decently fun, if basic, projectile manipulation with locking on to his Mechakoopa-esque minion and utilizing it, which is actually pretty fun and has some solid ways to do so, such as the R.O.B. laser-esque move and the Up Smash missiles, but the grab game is borderline incomprehensible and mostly bad, particularly the Back Throw which apparently reverses some of The Experiment's controls and Down Throw mentions regrabs and backwards-forwards throwing in a difficult to understand way. NAir really messes hard with the stale move system and I do not like Down Aerial's grab hitbox. The melee is overal average to poor, but the set has some fun stuff held back by some major issues.

Lord Detheroc
***
3/10

RankCom: Can't say I am very happy with this one. The disease cloud's mechanics, while somewhat helped by the nerf to corpse time, feel quite iffy and far too snowbally to me, as once the foe is disease it is very hard for it to not just tick up more and more. The minions are fairly interesting but some just plain weird stuff is done with them, do not like Down Tilt ripping them up and such. Down Smash is absurdly lockdown-y with little point to it otherwise, and the Fel Beast in the middle is just awkward (Down Smash basically needs to hit twice with it), and in a set which summons minions all over Down Smash only has them awkwardly have unique minions come out and attack and then retrat. Grab game is very awkward with Pikachu eating up the corpses of Abominations and then having them explode out of his stomach and Suicide Command leads to all kinds of awkward things. Ganondorf Up Tilt causes him to suck himself across the stage with the suction effect. This set has many ways for you to accidentally screw yourself over with moves that mess with your setup on attacks, such as Down Tilt and Neutral Aerial.

Ultimately what does this set in for me though is that it feels like many moves exist purely for the interaction and have pretty much no true relevance to fighting the foe. F-Throw is a single sentence without interactions, below the level of Bionichute movesets in length, and things like Down Tilt only exist for the interaction. The set is extremely unmemorable outside of the interactions despite the potential to do fun stuff with things like the meteor. Look at what Down smash actually is without interactions! Or Forward Tilt! There's also really awkward stuff like Up tilt being so absurdly specific.

Storyteller
***
3/10

RankCom: This moveset is clearly not intended to be serious, but given how much of this is in the source it is arguably less tacky than some of the other ones. Although Back Throw's "emotional pain" probably goes too far, although it arguably makes more sense than corpse eating. The principle issue with this set is, of course, the absurd OPness of the grab with double grab difficulty and Amnesia Command with infinite range which basically instantly puts this set in low tiers and makes it impossible for it to rise basically. However if that was fixed, Storyteller actually has some pretty neat ideas in the Back Throw's work (although it would be better if the partner could do something), the guards remind me of Manfred but is actually better IMO and stuff like Neutral Special is kind of interesting. Oh, Down Smash is also probably too strong with that HP. Could use a better melee game and the BAir is terrible, but stuff like the Forward Tilt is fun. This moveset is in no way good but ranks above some sets because of the fact I feel it could be more easily fixed.

Lord Garithos
***
3/10

RankCom: This moveset has no idea what it wants to be. It wants to be a 1v1, duelist-focused set, but it has very few moves to actually duel, and the way that Duel works ensures only one or two actual legitimate Duels go off in a stock. It wants to be a minion set, but most of the meat of the moveset doesn't suggest how the minions work with his melee playstyle, his primary and most fun Duel mechanic locks them out and the throw mechanics around them are tacky and at times extremely bizarre. Back Throw suggests simply bypassing Duels and the set's focal point entirely by chopping your own minions and eventually, the game becomes Garithos simply farming his elves because he can OHKO them. The horse mechanics are obtuse and pointless, with the horse's moves adding nothing to the moveset and the entire thing being needlessly complex: Why not just have him be on a horse like Rivendare? Or just take him off the horse entirely? Every Footman who gets a horse rides a horse which can create 1.8 seconds of earthshaking, apparently having fed their horses a few gallons of steroids before the match. This all distracts from enough issues that would already drag down a normal set, like the fact a foe cancelling a duel while tethered is pointless because he can just instantly declare another, an up aerial that primarily hits down while the down aerial often hits up, a really bizarre Down Tilt on the horse and more. This set largely gets as high as it does just because the core idea is fun, but it needs to be almost entirely rebuilt.

RankCom 2: Forward Throw was replaced with a much more palatable throw and Duel was given half damage to foes, and the Back Throw's huge exploit was fixed, although the move still basically only exists to bypass the main mechanic which I hate. This would move the moveset up more if I didn't feel it had such huge issues with how it is executed on a fundamental level. This movement up is still more than it appears because Riki is not an especially high 3 and there just aren't more 3s to move it above.

Professor von Kripplespac
***
3/10

RankCom: Kripplespac has some fun ideas, mostly lodged inside of the Tediz, an explosive minion that can be picked up like an item and is a fun expansion of the Mechakoopa. The bucket special is also fairly fun in how it sets up, although to be honest I thought the acid was not an especially fun expansion on it, it begs for more utilization. The mine is horribly unbalanced due to the fact Kripplespac only takes lag when it explodes, allowing him to make a dreadfully powerful platform + a prone throw that murders opponents with the damage and knockback. The prone throw also puts a very powerful time bomb on the foe that can easily explode for 45% damage (You basically just need to hit an F-Smash) and which can hit with power beyond a Ness Back Throw. It is also based on wording potentially undodgable. Down Smash is one of the worse ground chunks I have seen in a while thanks to the awkward method of summoning and being not very set relevant. NAir chair mysticall is able to spin around ground chunks, any projectile hit with UAir and clouds via magnetism, echoing Ghetsis and his famous ice. Finally, this moveset is a lot of interaction and little fighting the foe, making it rather dry when it does not achieve a lot of setup and honestly pretty boring once you get past the smashes.

Panther King
***
3/10

RankCom: A good deal of fun concepts are thrown in the bin by the intense imbalance that comes from giving Panther King 1.15x knockback, 1.5x damage and 1.5 attack speed (as implied by moves like Back Aerial) on a fairly easy to gain buff, which makes his already extremely powerful/overtuned Forward Smash obscene, not to mention lots of other fairly powerful/range-y moves in the mix, when you consider things like the F-Smash status effect or things like additional shield damage on F-Tilt it just gets obscene while the table is a solid combo tool. Stuff like the milk goblet spending most of the match as a Warlock Punch clone and the inconsistancy of the table, with the same sentence stating it as once per stock and a 15 second recharge, are also noticable issues and it misses some other key info like how the table/milk interacts or how multiple tables do work. You also get weird stuff like a claw swipe with no movement moving Panther King forward on the table for no reason when it is not even slippery.

Dr. Krankcase
***
3/10

RankCom: Krankcase is largely a boring read with some numerical issues. Fall Speed is not listed and most importantly the set is unclear on what a "speed unit" is. If it is actual units of speed, then Krankcase is hilarious and probably OP, as his Side Special lets him go over twice as fast as Sonic while NSpec goo would take out like 1/6th of Sonic's speed with each hit, let alone someone like poor Robin who would have 0.1 dash speed with two hits. Meanwhile if it is meant to be X/10 ratings, the NSpec is a bit more fine, but Side Special's speed is literally the same as his listed speed and thus pretty meme. The minions are...okay, but nothing special, far too many moves are dedicated to just making goo (and multiple times you say "this is your staple move for making goo" and then introduce a better goo maker) and it is full of nothing moves like Neutral Aerial that have such little gameplay value without the reader basically making the move for the set that they're nothing. Because of that it suffers like Hood Sickle in that there's just little I actually like.

Captain Toad
***
3/10

RankCom: Captain Toad primarily suffers from puzzling characterization, such as the fact that he apparently has a limitless supply of Piranha Plants in his backpack that will endlessly surprise him, and a terrible grab game for flavor with not very good throws, attached to a standard moveset that has little good or bad about it. Although Captain Toad's fairly fun structures provide a nice starting point and the Forward Smash is nice (if flawed in some respects), it isn't enough to save the set.

Magneto
***
3/10

RankCom: A pretty standard newcomer set, Magneto is quite lacking in description and playstyle relevance for his basic moves, while his Neutral Special is very scary for how the stun works (or is assumed to work: the wording is wonky) and some neat ideas like the junk aren't really used much.

Absol
***
3/10

RankCom: Absol largely suffers from not having enough detail to it, making it difficult to really think on how it works and see the depth of the moveset. Not all of the ideas in the set are bad, but the disaster sensing is a bit iffy in hits implementation and there are some bad numbers like on Super Luck. Aside from that it mostly has too little detail to be effectively read and judged and some odd grammar/wording.

Riki
***
3/10

RankCom: A dry and boring set, Riki's start offers some promise with debuffing powders and the KO power of Say Sorry!. The problem is the fact that, frankly, the powders have huge overlap, for some reason all have on-shield effects, and far too often just feel like "add on some poison damage". They don't add much in the way of new gameplay and Riki falls into the Skowl trap of "everything moves around my constructs for flow", except also having some powder storage ability that for whatever reason is on aerials. The grab game mixes between boring, bizarre effects and I don't know how it really works into the anemic playstyle that leaves Riki with little of how he plays. For the most part, though, the set is just boring enough to have me yawning reading it. The set has been moved further down due to balance issues being presented in it.

Esty Dee
***
3/10

RankCom: The most difficult to read Kat set in a while, the superspeed concepts here seem significantly poorer handled than a set like Albert Wesker, although I am fond of the psuedo-duplicate dashing. She seems overwhelming with her speed, ability to dash everywhere, multiple moves that offer psuedo-invincibility and her knives. I might be reading it wrong, but can't she infinite a foe by just jabbing a knife into them and then taking it out? This also has to be one of the most obtuse movesets in the contest, as multiple swathes of the moveset have a great deal of additional options, alternate possibilities and interactions that are frankly hard to keep track of just reading and sometimes pointless, the way the Side Special specifically elctrifies the sword only when exiting the move in midair.

Sharla
***
3/10

RankCom: Teammate focused sets are cool concepts, but Sharla suffers the ills of many of the poorer ones, with a lack of legitimate playstyle outside of group matches and too much dedication to moves which only work in multiplayer. Sharla's heat is not well handled here and it feels too much like a punisher mechanic just for playing the game. Finally Drive Boost, while cool, does not add enough to her 1v1 playstyle to patch things up as it needed to.

Hood Sickle
**
2/10

RankCom: This moveset misses basic and critical statistics like falling speed, although hey at least we have "aerial movement!", and then proceeds to give this character a 2x attack speed and 1.5x power buff on all of his attacks by going through a short range teleport. This teleport is apparently also a dash, as the moveset then refers to it as such multiple times. The Dark Orb power boost is not thought through at all and leads to hilarious memes like a 22.5% damage, quick to come out Up Tilt, a Dash Attack that deals 42% damage with incredible KO power and more, not even counting the fact he can spam gravity wells on the stage and then just explode them. They continue to perform suction while exploding and are very powerful. Then you get into things like one sentence throws, three aerials which all do 17% damage and have little to any relevance, missing critical info like if the Dark Orbs even do anything to the grab game and you get a trememedous meme.

RankCom Edit: Sadly, the tremendously meme numbers in this move were fixed, but the grab game and aerials remain quite bad, and honestly the very few best moves in this set only reach average, with other issues still persisting.

Lilac
**
2/10

RankCom: For most of the set, Lilac is mostly an underdetailed but not awful combination hit-and-run and combo set. Although not very expanded on, there is enough to get glimpses of fun stuff here, the set has a good deal of fun attention to the game's detail as well and the Pangu Star offers the ocassional fun buff, although it blatantly should be a Special and not a Neutral Aerial. The Smashes also suggest fun stuff with Forward Smash and Up Smash. This is all ruined by the Down Smash, which can randomly make Lilac invincible, heal from attacks, unable to be destroyed by Pikachu...or collect coins in Coin Matches. The move is just awful. The grab game is also too horribly underdetailed compared to the rest of the set to tell at all.

Conker
**
2/10

RankCom: Conker has a large amount of reflectors that allow him to very casually destroy opposing projectile users and is already mass and fast enough to be an issue, but honestly most of the projectile "manipulation" outside the dynamite feels very purposeless as there is little benefit to Conker not just using the projectile normally. There is also impressive anti-synergy, where Conker's immunity to his own bombs giving enemies no reason to play projectile tennis instead of getting it off stage. Side Special is incredibly powerful, instantly breaking shields, instant killing heavies at pretty low percentages and having a strong status effect, and the bleed status effect is spammed quite a lot with the throws and other places. Up Tilt is a potential combo starter that combos into itself as a kill move. Also has memes like Conker's "Machine Guns" holding 2 bullets each and some other bizarre animations.

Anub'Arak
**
2/10

RankCom: Anub'Arak actually has some fun ideas inside of it, such as the scarab/locust playstyle, the flight hover, the N. Brio-inspired webbing from Custom NSpec Special 1 and so on. It is dragged down quite heavily by an overabundance of stun, making it a very frustrating play, which also happens to be too strong and thus make the playstyle too mindless, along with some bad old-styled random moves and a REALLY tacky Down Throw. Custom NSpec Special 1 for NSpec should really just be the default, Custom NSpec Special 2 could be kept with really changed #s and the default could stay if it wasn't a dang stun. Burrow is also a fun concept but really OP as-is. Moved down more because it is more OP than I thought back when I ranked it so long ago.

Dark Samus
**
2/10

RankCom: Dark Samus is missing some rather important numbers, but the honestly biggest thing keeping this from the 3-ish area is the Pummel and the Down Special, which seem incredibly overpowered together, strong enough I don't feel it is easily ignorable. Combined with missing critical detail, this promising newcomer showing falls short.

Toa Pohatu
**
2/10

RankCom: Pohatu's high falling speed, Down Special and some odd numbers make it a balance nightmare and aside from that it is largely an inoffensive but extremely standard moveset, although the Side Special and Neutral Special stand out as fine though not amazing ideas.

The Appetizer
**
2/10

RankCom: A risky grounded mechanic seems iffy here and the mechanic's numbers are wonky, meatball madness is fun but at times it feels like the moveset misses chances for fun with it and the grab is quite horrible, really hurting The Appetizer's viability as a 3v1 boss and generally not having much, ahem, meat to it (he should at least have some kind of normal grab game). The back aerial is also terrible and the moveset is otherwise quite mundane.

Paper Mario
**
2/10

RankCom: A truly impressive case of a moveset with a lot of love put into it that totally fails to capture the spirit of the character and franchise. Paper Mario is a feast or famine balance nightmare and does its best to include everything from non-Sticker Star games (and for some reason TTYD, the most popular game), which ends up creating a mishmash of input placement issues and bad descisions. The remote copy mechanic ultimately becomes a less fun and balanced Triforce Heroes in execution and the moveset is dreadfully boring and difficult to read, espexially due to a fair amount of worthless interactions.

Nico Robin
**
2/10

RankCom: Nico Robin's balance is quite bizarre, featuing an absurdly strong Neutral Special followed by a moveset with extremely low and underpowered numbers. There also is not a huge amount of playstyle or flow in the moves and the way they are described leaves it feeling rather dry, aside from the sometimes pretty good animations. The water mechanic is also rather hilariously bad and should really be a less important easter egg. It is at least not a terrible moveset to read through.

Isabelle
**
2/10

RankCom: Isabelle is not a set devoid of ideas, however the set suffers an overwhelming number of numerical issues and design hindrances, with the aerials being weak for their need of setup moves, traps such as the tilt flowers being poorly balanced, and lag/charge times being absurd in some cases for low payoff. At least the idea of Isabelle having a lot of micromanagement is good?

Sans
**
2/10

RankCom: The biggest issues with this moveset come from terrible balance, I get the interpretation of Sans' 1% damage stuff but it is inconsistant and has too high KO percentages plus randomly high damage on some moves, and the fact it is terrible for characterization, unable to decide between Genocide Route, Serious Boss Sans and Comedian Sans. Sans is firing off Gaster Blasters and slamming his foes on walls and then smacking them with a water sausage. Aside from that, there is little playstyle or to keep it more than generic and it has very odd, super small and useless stuns in it, and generally is just unpleasant. It avoids 1 star primarily for the GIF effort and for the sets below it to live with that fact.

Classic Bowser
*
1/10

RankCom: Takes Bowser's old set, which was one of the worst in Smash, and tries to fix it by giving generic power buffs everywhere, most of which are fairly generic and do not solve Bowser's issues. On top of that we have tacky reflecting of hammers off of Bowser's shells, which can go in many directions for not too much reason and stuff like the Koopa Klown Kar which is very awkward when the set is specifically trying to be NES/Mario 64 Bowser. This gets more awkward when Bowser starts cribbing off of his Smash 4 self's animations, which not only seem defeating for the point of the set but often times are very difficult/nonsensical to imagine with the old Bowser body type and animations. The fact that it has this is what truly brings it bellow sets like Isabelle and Sans to me, although Bowser at the least remains corporeal throughout the entire moveset and Brostulip clearly improved with the Conker movement.

Crash Bandicoot
*
1/10

RankCom: 1.3 HP shield.

Geno
*
1/10

RankCom: What a bizarre moveset! Detail is simultanously too much, in specific frame data that is heavy yet not thought out and excess detail on a few points, and too little, as I had little idea on how Geno played at all from the moves, the grab game is astounding in not even giving each throw a move title, Geno suddenly can gain infinite traction in his Dash Attack, non-Forward Smashes are quite low and somewhat bizarre in Down Smash's case, things like Down Tilt are weird (sorry, Crouch Tilt) and don't fit, and I think this is the only set I've seen with a "force of drift" stat. A recommended read for the experience.

Psuedo-Vorgis
*
Voregis/10

RankCom: A truly astounding set, the first two Specials would be enough to fill any ****ty set between the huge 4 second stun + 1.5x grab difficulty attached to an absurd healing move, the poorly explained marble-fly that presumably thinks Atlantis' Up Smash baubles were flies, and the sheer absurdity of his weight and size. But on top of that, we get to a minion Up Special where two of the minions aren't remotely complete, on top of which is an absurdly strong minion at 3 second. Why this set can even be played 1v1 is questioning, as the match is nothing but a sick joke when you can just go NSpec -> Energy Breaker every time. Then you get to the really absurdly strong DSpec, the Edgar-pummel-inspired Jab and the heart-attack inducing mention of 4 grabs (I was SO WORRIED there'd be 4 grab games). Despite all this absurdity, it somehow manages a 1-paragraph-barely Forward Smash. Memorable, but not for the best of reasons.

 

[Rizen]

Spacing/be comfortable with how he moves and how his moves work.

 

[-LzR-]

You need to be able to get some pretty hard reads to be able to fully use G&W imo.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post something like this, but I was thinking about grabbing Mr. G&W as my main for Brawl, or at least my alternate. I was wondering what people think you should learn first for an aspiring Mr. G&W character. Judging from the threads, I was thinking it is spacing.

Also just wanted to drop in and say hi Game and Watchers!

Spacing, Hard reads, mix-ups.

 

[Gardex]

I had my first encounter with ICs this weekend

 

[SFA Smiley]

I had my first encounter with ICs this weekend

did it hurt?

 

[Ruuku]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post something like this, but I was thinking about grabbing Mr. G&W as my main for Brawl, or at least my alternate. I was wondering what people think you should learn first for an aspiring Mr. G&W character. Judging from the threads, I was thinking it is spacing.

Also just wanted to drop in and say hi Game and Watchers!

Making the best out of every punish/read.

 

[Alphicans]

I had my first encounter with ICs this weekend

You poor soul

 

[Rizen]

Qs
How should I play the Pit MU? Does G&W have better reaching attacks than Pit? What stages should I pick and ban/strike?

 

[Gardex]

I feel like that MU is all about outspacing the other guy. Don't really know too much about the MU. All I know is that a decent pit makes you dislike arrows, bucket or not.

ICs were painful, I had no idea what I was doing. It was a bad combo of me not knowing squat about the MU, the MU being awful, and the player just being plain better than me.

I ended up getting 3rd in Brawl, 13th in Melee(Better than 3rd in Brawl IMO, seeing as this was a big Melee tourney) and 1st in the Beginner-tourney(Which I honestly shouldn't have been in, but the co-host felt like adding me)

 

[Rizen]

All I know is that a decent pit makes you dislike arrows, bucket or not.

^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Especially on Wifi.


Don't you hate it when someone says "In the ICs (or whatever) MU just don't get grabbed"? I mean, duh, that applies to any MU and gives no helpful info.

Brinstar's good vs ICs but you can't rely on the acid to save you from CG KOs. ICs have different rhythms to CG different characters so mash upB in case they mess up. Bair's a great spacing tool. The CPU IC is stupid when separated and will probably move into a Fsmash/Dsmash. The CPU also has a hidden damage meter and is the easier one to attack. Like Luigi's tornado, IC's hammer twirl can go very high if their together and the player mashes B fast enough. The 2 ICs' shielding has a 6 frame difference. Changing stages can break CGs but that's a small factor at best. Separate and pressure them before the reunite. The CPU can still KO you even as the main one is flying in the background from a star KO. A lone IC is bad but still a threat.
Can G&W bucket icebergs/blizzards?

 

[Gardex]

G&W can bucket blizzard, but not the iceblocks.

Brinstar and RC were sadly not legal, and he kinda caught me off-guard, because he didn't go ICs game 1, so I CP'd Lylat. He then proceeded to beat me solidly with ICs.

 

[Sylarius]

The 2 ICs' shielding has a 6 frame difference.

All actions except for synched moves such as side b have a 6 frame difference from when Popo executes the action and Nana does.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Wish I could help with the pit advice. I play the second best one semi regularly but I only have player knowledge not matchup knowledge. If I get my computer working ill post a vid of me playing the good one and then playing one that isnt as good. I have NO IDEA why he went pit on me especially since he uses Ike

 

[Vinnie]

G&W vs Pit

Only bucket arrows when it's safe to (like offstage or really far away from him). You can bucket the 3rd one unsafely because the 3rd absorption of bucket is pretty lagless... you can up B after and usually be safe. Most pits up B offstage, and wait under you for you to try to chase them, and THEN go to the ledge / under the stage (pits and ROBs do this) so don't try to chase the Pit, because he's usually safe. If the gimp is there though, take it. As far as ground game, learn to DI out of fsmash on reaction (up + behind).

Other useful info:
-Turtle is good but don't approach with it. Punish with it. Pit will often trade with g&w, but if you try to punish him instead of straight-up attacking him, you will be punished (especially when it comes to bair) (sorry if this was confusing to read).
-Dsmash isn't very safe vs him
-Dtilt near the ledge is good
-Be wary of his reflector gimps. If he does manage to reflect your up B, DO NOT PANIC, DI towards him in your parachute. He will most likely up B, hitting you with his windbox, thus, giving you your up B back (click).
-Other than his bair, you shouldn't die before like 120. Bair is pretty easy to avoid though if you're actively avoiding it.

Matchup imo: +1

 

[-LzR-]

Nice post Vinnie.
Care to explain why absorbing arrows is unsafe? What can he punish you with that isn't worth getting an OHKO move?

 

[Gardex]

Bucketing off-stage can be risky because if the Pit times his arrows right, then he can lock you into the bucket animation for quite a while until you're uncomfortably low, if not dead.

 

[-LzR-]

Save your jump?

 

[UTDZac]

Nice post Vinnie.
Care to explain why absorbing arrows is unsafe? What can he punish you with that isn't worth getting an OHKO move?

He's not gonna sit there and give you three arrows THEN punish you. He's gonna bait with each arrow, hoping you bucket the first. Then he'll come running and hit you.

Sure, you may be at low percent and not go anywhere... but he may also decide to bait you at 80% near the ledge. You feel safe, but he knows your dead. Why take the risk? Arrows aren't necessary, especially if he never plans to give you that third one.

 

[-LzR-]

Oh yeah, he can simply aim the arrow so it missed the bucket or something. Oh well, I have only played against Pit once and I 3 stocked him because I was that much better than him =/
Pit is weird.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

I run away and just bait them into trying to camp me so I can fill my bucket. If they chase with physical attacks, just punish with bair. If they shoot arrows, free frame 2 OHKO move. The strategy even works on wifi.
Everything Vinnie said is right on the money. Bair OoS against Pit as a punish is usually alright. Dsmash is fairly safe if you do it at max range.

 

[Dexident]

I finally spiked with G&W! It made me so happy.

 

[-LzR-]

People are starting to learn to deal with G&W. I have no chance. Gonna main IC.

 

[Patches]

I beat Nicole and took logic to game 3 at revival of salt yesterday. :3

 

[SFA Smiley]

Oh god guys I screwed up so bad yesterday. I didnt make it outta pools...

There were people way worse than me that made bracket. Agh I look so bad x(

Regardless ive got some matches vs dk, snake, mk, and olimar for anyone who wants to study the matchups/ critique me. I know those are troublesome matchups for a lot of people so I wanted to get some vids so anyone who has a hard time can see what works ans what doesnt work

 

[SFA Smiley]

@above

Dude patches thats so legit good stuff. I wanna see how you played logic thats my worst matchup by far

 

[Patches]

Id show you if I could dude. It wasn't saved. Technically, I beat his MK game 2, but the games with olimar were close to. I just find if I play really aggressively, and make decent reads, it's a little easier since it doesn't give him time to be campy

 

[sambo400]

I had a dream last night that GnW had the sexiest dacus. Like Snake on PS2 dacus.

Whats a normal thing to dream about?

Congrats patches and sorry : ) : (

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

I had a dream I was taking an early third expansion as Zerg, and the opposing Protoss came in with four zealots and two stalkers and wrecked a whole bunch of my ****.

 

[Gardex]

Should've put down some spinecrawlers

 

[sambo400]

It takes a while to get that many gateway units if they were forge expanding. And if they weren't forge expanding, then you were kinda taking a risk with a fast 3rd. I usually 4gate zergs who take a 3rd before I take my natural.

Or maybe you were being proxied.

 

[-LzR-]

Stop playing mainstream games and get back to Brawl >: (