Over Represented Series for SSB4

[Homelessvagrant]

I think the concept of overrepresentation is a misnomer. If a character is iconic in it's own right to the point that he/she may be considered as a playable character, the sales of his/her game series should not be the weighing merit that allows/disallows that character from being able to smash bros. I use to consider Lucas as an unnecessary rep, but then I played his game. He's an amazing character form an extraordinary game. Should he then replace Ness? No, because Ness is iconic in his own right.

The same can be said about Wolf or Falco. True they are from a game series that has only 5 (+1) games. But who isn't familiar with these characters, most people can easily quote at least a line or two from them from Starfox 64 at the very least. Compare Wolf with a character like Greninja. Most people immediately recognized Wolf when he was revealed in Brawl while on the other hand a few people scratched their heads when Greninja was revealed (not that I'm saying Greninja should/shouldn't be in).

IMO Dixie and K.Rool should be included at this point not because of representation but rather because they are well known beloved characters to a large group of fans of Nintendo. Case in Point I know a group of non-gamers that who know who K. Rool is just by his name. The same could be said about Ridley

TL;DR numbers are conceptual and can be deceiving in nature. The reason the Mario series or Pokemon series should have more reps is because they have had more games and a larger fan base to help elevate certain characters to a more iconic appreciated status, not because the sales themselves.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I use to consider Lucas as an unnecessary rep, but then I played his game. He's an amazing character form an extraordinary game. Should he then replace Ness? No, because Ness is iconic in his own right.

I think that anyone who believes that Lucas will be or should be cut, should play Mother 3.

 

[VictoriaYr]

Priority number one would be to get a second Fire Emblem representative. Other than that, there are nitpicks. Still, Mario and Pokemon will split the highest number, and offset any dominance from one series. Sakurai has had some surprises, but none are outside of reason...

I think in terms of representation, the question is, "what have you done lately...?" and with that in mind, I would look at Starfox. Either we will get a new game, or someone's going to get cut. Just a theory... I wouldn't bet my house on it though.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Whilst it's nice to believe sales and amount of games shouldn't influence who gets in, let's not forget that with sales and volume of games comes recognizability. More people will like a character they've played the game of and thus sales and sheer volume of a series library do have a large impact on the becoming of an "All Star".

With that in mind I'd honestly say Mario can have however many characters it wants.
Considering it sells more than twice as much as all the other series(except Pokemon), any character from the Mario franchise is going to have a lot more fans worldwide than the majority of other series. Birdo and Toadette (which is not my genderbent alt) probably outrank the majority of niche protagonists in sheer star power. The so called 'casual market' are familiar with the majority of the Mario cast even if they've never played a video game before.

Likewise Pokemon has 700+ characters to choose from, sells like hotcakes(and importantly; shifts handhelds which speaks wonders of the appeal of the monsters) and was a world wide phenomena so naturally it also has more fans than your other series. With 700+ characters, all with movesets assigned to them already there's a lot of Smash capability.

DK is about fourth in terms of sales, and could easily have Dixie and K. Rool, both of which are well known characters outside the DK playing community even. Dixie is known for being one of the first Nintendo female protagonists and K. Rool speaks for himself. He's been out the series for years yet people are clamouring more than ever for his inclusion in Smash Bros.

In terms of overrepresented series Mother is the only guilty party and that is entirely the fault of Nintendo.
Ness' game only just hit Europe's shores recently. 14 years after he debuted in Smash 64.
Will Mother 3 ever be released outside Japan? Eshop makes it possible, but considering it took nearly a decade and a half to legally obtain Earthbound over here it's no wonder few people outside the Smash Bros. playerbase know who the hell either of these two are.

Obviously there are some exceptions to the Sales = well known criteria; Wii Fit sold boat loads, but the Trainer isn't exactly a well known character. Her character model even looks totally different region to region.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

In Melee, the only characters cut that I would say I genuinely missed was Roy and Mewtwo. The rest might as well have been alternate costumes.

The clones present in Brawl at least had character and a unique look behind them. If Lucas was, say, Ninten or Magicant Ness, or Wolf was James Fox or Shades-wearing Fox, I would cut them without a second thought.

But seeing as Lucas got a boatload of focus in SSE (I would daresay he's the closest thing to a main character) and Wolf is the only Star Fox antagonist that can't be confused for Master Hand, I would keep them in and diversify their movesets.

 

[Luigi#1]

Mario is not over represented period. He's Nintendo's mascot.
Pokemon is also selling massively.
Zelda is very popular.
Kirby is popular enough to get 4 reps.

Those are the big 4 according to Smash. They can have plenty of reps.
Metriod is popular, and the same thing that happened to Kirby can happen to it. [1 rep in more than one game then jumps to 3 reps.]
Mother, ah.....pass. They are a long dead franchise now, but still...Japanese popularity.
Star Fox is popular enough to have 3 reps, but any more for them would be overdoing it. Star Fox is kinda dead right now. So I think Kystal could happen if Wolf or Falco are cut.
DK is important and popular, and had a recent game. A 3rd rep can easily happen.
F-Zero is in the same stance as Star Fox somewhat, but is abit less popular. It could get another rep, but the best would have been Samurai Gorah, but he's cut so...
Yoshi is a spin off of Mario. Only needs one. DK is like a semi spin off, but Yoshi series have lot's of Mario influence.

Eh, I think it's fine honestly. I'd go over other series, but I'm too lazy.

 

[Snagrio]

Nobody has really brought up Pikmin I see. Clearly just my own bias, but I think it could have a second rep. While not a huge franchise it has grown to become a Nintendo staple (heck Pikmin carry your save data when transferring between systems).

The problem is that a second Pikmin rep automatically lends itself to being a clone unless you pick a boss creature like the Plasm Wraith or something.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Maybe Pikmin deserves a second rep but I don't think it really really needs one. There isn't anything the series could offer that Olimar couldn't...... I mean unless you added a playable Bulborb or something like that.

I think it does a disservice to a franchise to just add a character just because the series is popular without any regard to the characters themselves and what they and only they can bring.

 

[Knight Dude]

I don't really see a problem Mario or Pokemon having a bunch of characters. With Mario, it's Nintendo's go to series, and all of the characters added are staples of said franchise. It makes sense to have Mario, Luigi, Bowser and Peach. Rosalina might be a different case to some though, since she's a newer character, but Nintendo's been pushing her to be the next big character of the series, and she's liked by fans. So it shouldn't be too much skin off of anyone's back.

Pokemon has a crapton of characters to choose from, many of them good choices for Smash, so I can't really complain about them either. All I know is that Charizard and Greninja are pretty sick, while Pikachu and Lucario have been alright in my book.

The only series I see as "under repped" is Metroid and Donkey Kong. Each could use one or two characters down the line. Most people seem to like Ridley and K. Rool, so they'd be ideal choices. I'm in that group too.

 

[Snagrio]

Maybe Pikmin deserves a second rep but I don't think it really really needs one. There isn't anything the series could offer that Olimar couldn't...... I mean unless you added a playable Bulborb or something like that.

I think it does a disservice to a franchise to just add a character just because the series is popular without any regard to the characters themselves and what they and only they can bring.

You're pretty much right. The franchise is certainly big enough to warrant another character, but Olimar already effectively encompasses what Pikmin is all about so technically there doesn't need to be any extra representation beyond a random creature. Again, me wanting more then Olimar is just personal bias for the series (it's second only to Smash Bros. in fact).

 

[Frontiers]

Maybe 1 more go metroid, donkey and fire emblem so 3 for each

 

[GmanSir]

Nintendo likes to group Pikmin with the other big series (Most likely because Miyamoto made it). However, what people fail to realize is that characters aren't the only way to rep a series. Pokemon is fine with 5 slots because it has the most expansive item in the game; Poke-ball. Now we have the Master Ball, so Pokemon is very well represented. So a series like Pikmin that is grouped with Kirby and Metroid can just have one character, with several other stuff. If Ridley isn't playable, then that would be the reason why Metroid has 3 assist trophies. That could also apply to Pikmin, which has a new item and an enemy in Smash Run.

 

[RidleyKraid187]

Some people who are butthurt over Ridley still refuse to count Zero Suit Samus as a second Metroid character...

I think Metroid's big enough to warrant 3 reps, counting Zero Suit Samus.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

^ You realize he was trolling right?

 

[Booster]

Mario, without a doubt, Pokemon comes close, but if you count Donkey Kong as part of the Mario series it just nudges Mario to being the most over represented.

 

[Tepig2000]

Pokemon needs 8. Everyone from Brawl (except the trainer but he doesn't count as he only appears in the background) + Greninja and Mewtwo.

 

[Floor]

In my opinion, the reps should be

• Mario-7
• Legend of Zelda-6
• Pokemon-6
• Donkey Kong-4
• Fire Emblem-4
• Star Fox-4
• Metroid-1or2
• Sonic-1
• F-Zero-1
• Kid Icarus-2
• Animal Crossing-2
• Pikmin-2
• Kirby-3or4
• Earthbound-2or3

it'd be a pretty big roster, but I'd like a large roster. This is kind of a dream rep count rather than completely realistic, but I made it pretty realistic if a large roster was confirmed.

 

[Sahfarry]

Earthbound series. I want Lucas cut. Everybody is fine, but Pokemon is getting there. If only Jiggs werent in 64...

• Mario - 5
• Legend of Zelda - 5
• Pokemon - 5
• Donkey Kong - 3
• Yoshi - 1
• Fire Emblem - 2-3
• Star Fox - 2-3
• Metroid - 2-3
• Sonic - 1
• F-Zero - 2 (Deathborn)
• Kid Icarus - 2
• Animal Crossing - 1
• Pikmin - 1
• Kirby - 3-4
• Earthbound - 1
• Other (Retro) - 6
• TOTAL: 41-46

Personally I think the Mario series is fine as it is. 5 characters + 4 arguably related characters (Yoshi, Wario, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong) is plenty.

I agree 100%. Only other Mario char. I'd want is Bowser Jr., but I really don't see him coming in, nor do I want him in (especially when we got other series to think of.

 

[Floor]

In my opinion two FE reps is out of the question. I think we are getting three. But in all honesty FE is a series that is making a comeback. I don't think they are undeserving of four but that's unlikely.

 

[JaidynReiman]

The only franchises I can see being over represented are Star Fox and Mother. If Star Fox gets a new game and the other Mother games are ever ported outside of Japan, then I'd have no problem with Mother keeping 2 reps. Also, I think F-Zero, despite not having a new game in ten years, could use a new rep. After reviewing it, there were about ten F-Zero games or so, that's quite a lot. I think F-Zero deserves a second rep; perhaps replace that third Star Fox rep with a second F-Zero rep in the process.

I don't think Mario or Zelda are over or under rep'd, but the idea of Mario getting 7-8 characters is ridiculous. I don't CARE how iconic Mario is, we should have a large variety. The only way Mario should get 7-8 reps is if the game has 70+ playable characters, which isn't ever going to happen.

 

[bilbo43]

Mario already has 4 extra characters who appear regularly in the series who isn't represented by the mushroom icon. Yoshi, Wario, DK and Diddy (and about a 50-50 chance that another DK rep is in this game IMO) have appeared in too many mario games to count, so the people who complain that mario isn't represented enough really aren't taking this into consideration.

I made this point in a different post about the Zelda series in that a 6th representative would have to be from a character who really hasn't appeared that often in the games. Shiek was included purely as a gimmick for Zelda originally and since she was met with such a great response from the smash community it would be a shame to cut her completely, besides her however every other zelda character rep in the game is a common character of the series. I challenge someone to name a Zelda character who has appeared in a recent game and has appeared in more than 3 games as a main character.

the only series that really have almost an endless amount of unique characters is pokemon. In saying that it doesn't mean pokemon deserves an endless amount of characters representing the series in SSB4. In all honesty if only 5 pokemon characters appear in this upcoming game but I dont see it having more than 1 representative than the 5 represented by mario. 6 would be the absolute maximum in my opinion, despite it being more than capable of supplying probably a dozen unique characters.

Fire Emblem and Kid Icurus is the only series I can see growing substantially due to their recent spike in popularity but even they have their limits. FE will have 3 (could support 4) and KI will have 2 (could probably also support 4).

Kirby will keep their 3 characters like the previous game and Star Fox will be lucky to keep 3 in my opinion. Mother is in the same boat as Star Fox, more likely to lose a member than they are to gain one.

Metroid hasn't really gained an extra character, only taken an extra character slot, but if Ridley gets announced I will be indifferent, despite my initial hesitation to believe it.

The only other series I see which could supply more than 1 unique character is Sonic, they could even supply about 4 or 5 unique characters if given the chance, but 1 member is enough for a 3rd party game.

Anyway after this rambling this is what I believe to be the representation for each series

Mario: 5 (+4 if you consider that DK, wario and yoshi are pseudo mario characters)
DK: 2-3
LOZ: 5 (definitely one more reveal to come at least)
Metroid: 2-3
Kirby: 3 (definitely at least one more reveal)
Star Fox: 2-3 (definitely at least one more reveal)
Pokemon: 5-6 (definitely have at least one more reveal to come)
EB/Mother: 1-2
FE: 3 (Almost certain there is one more reveal to come)
KI: 1-2 (Its revival is enough to promote itself one more character)
3rd Party: 3 (there is one more character coming, im just not placing bets on anyone)

So in short probably Mario, Star Fox and Earth bound are the most over represented series that could potentially come about. Im also going to go out on a limb here and say that any series which has not had a character revealed as of yet for this game will not have more than 1 character included in the game. enter lucas and ness to spoil my theory

 

[Cobalsh]

"Overrepresentation" is a Smashboards created term that people use here to justify another character not getting in from another series. For example, people will only be mad if Kirby gets a fourth character because one of their most wanted didn't get in. Thus, they believe other series had a higher priority, while it could be that Sakurai never considered their character for more than a moment. This especially comes with more off-the-wall or random characters than reps form Mario, Zelda, etc. I wouldn't mind if we had twenty Pokemon characters if they were all different, unique, and well-liked. But if we had twenty Pokemon reps and half of them were uninspired clones, then yeah, some changes need to be made to the roster.

-Smooth Criminal

 

[Speculator]

As of the Brawl roster, the only truly overrepresented series is Star Fox. It's not simply about a series with five-ish games being given the same number of reps as Kirby - it's that all three characters are variations on the same formula. Falco and Wolf are Fox with different animations and damage modifiers. I don't have a problem with two characters sharing a moveset and certain characteristics, but three is really pushing it. That said, Falco and Wolf are both established Smash fighters and there's nothing I can do about it. For the sake of players who like those characters, I don't want to see either of them dropped for SSB4.

Even with the transformation split, I don't think any series should go above five roster slots. Certainly none should overshadow Mario (which is currently at five - I really thought we cleared up the debate on whether the DK/Yoshi/Wario series are seperate or not years ago). I daresay that in terms of physical playable characters, Pokemon is going to be reduced in number from six to five, although it will be increasing in one roster slot. It is a shame that Mario and Pokemon should get newcomers but LoZ is left with the same selection it had in Brawl; I'd like it if as a compromise Tingle was introduced as a representative of his own series.

Two roster slots for Kid Icarus would be overrepresentation. The series has barely three games to its name. A recent revival (not that recent anymore, mind you) isn't enough to push it to the same level as Metroid or Donkey Kong. The reason two slots is acceptable for Mother but not for KI is this: Pit is a sufficient representative for all three Kid Icarus games. He is the series protagonist throughout. Ness is the representative of EarthBound and nothing beyond that. Alone, he is capable of representing only a third of the series. Lucas is there to expand Mother representation beyond just one game in a way that isn't required for Kid Icarus. This is not to say I think Palutena is impossible as a newcomer - but the series will be overrepresented if she is included.

 

[Floor]

Mario already has 4 extra characters who appear regularly in the series who isn't represented by the mushroom icon. Yoshi, Wario, DK and Diddy (and about a 50-50 chance that another DK rep is in this game IMO) have appeared in too many mario games to count, so the people who complain that mario isn't represented enough really aren't taking this into consideration.

I made this point in a different post about the Zelda series in that a 6th representative would have to be from a character who really hasn't appeared that often in the games. Shiek was included purely as a gimmick for Zelda originally and since she was met with such a great response from the smash community it would be a shame to cut her completely, besides her however every other zelda character rep in the game is a common character of the series. I challenge someone to name a Zelda character who has appeared in a recent game and has appeared in more than 3 games as a main character.

the only series that really have almost an endless amount of unique characters is pokemon. In saying that it doesn't mean pokemon deserves an endless amount of characters representing the series in SSB4. In all honesty if only 5 pokemon characters appear in this upcoming game but I dont see it having more than 1 representative than the 5 represented by mario. 6 would be the absolute maximum in my opinion, despite it being more than capable of supplying probably a dozen unique characters.

Fire Emblem and Kid Icurus is the only series I can see growing substantially due to their recent spike in popularity but even they have their limits. FE will have 3 (could support 4) and KI will have 2 (could probably also support 4).

Kirby will keep their 3 characters like the previous game and Star Fox will be lucky to keep 3 in my opinion. Mother is in the same boat as Star Fox, more likely to lose a member than they are to gain one.

Metroid hasn't really gained an extra character, only taken an extra character slot, but if Ridley gets announced I will be indifferent, despite my initial hesitation to believe it.

The only other series I see which could supply more than 1 unique character is Sonic, they could even supply about 4 or 5 unique characters if given the chance, but 1 member is enough for a 3rd party game.

Anyway after this rambling this is what I believe to be the representation for each series

Mario: 5 (+4 if you consider that DK, wario and yoshi are pseudo mario characters)
DK: 2-3
LOZ: 5 (definitely one more reveal to come at least)
Metroid: 2-3
Kirby: 3 (definitely at least one more reveal)
Star Fox: 2-3 (definitely at least one more reveal)
Pokemon: 5-6 (definitely have at least one more reveal to come)
EB/Mother: 1-2
FE: 3 (Almost certain there is one more reveal to come)
KI: 1-2 (Its revival is enough to promote itself one more character)
3rd Party: 3 (there is one more character coming, im just not placing bets on anyone)

So in short probably Mario, Star Fox and Earth bound are the most over represented series that could potentially come about. Im also going to go out on a limb here and say that any series which has not had a character revealed as of yet for this game will not have more than 1 character included in the game. enter lucas and ness to spoil my theory

I accept your challenge. Navi. Only half Joking there, but I agree with pretty much everything you said. Only difference is that I Don't see any franchise receiving a lower rep count that brawl. So mother and star fox stay at two and three.

Edit
did my research. No navi.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Mario already has 4 extra characters who appear regularly in the series who isn't represented by the mushroom icon. Yoshi, Wario, DK and Diddy (and about a 50-50 chance that another DK rep is in this game IMO) have appeared in too many mario games to count, so the people who complain that mario isn't represented enough really aren't taking this into consideration.

I made this point in a different post about the Zelda series in that a 6th representative would have to be from a character who really hasn't appeared that often in the games. Shiek was included purely as a gimmick for Zelda originally and since she was met with such a great response from the smash community it would be a shame to cut her completely, besides her however every other zelda character rep in the game is a common character of the series. I challenge someone to name a Zelda character who has appeared in a recent game and has appeared in more than 3 games as a main character.

the only series that really have almost an endless amount of unique characters is pokemon. In saying that it doesn't mean pokemon deserves an endless amount of characters representing the series in SSB4. In all honesty if only 5 pokemon characters appear in this upcoming game but I dont see it having more than 1 representative than the 5 represented by mario. 6 would be the absolute maximum in my opinion, despite it being more than capable of supplying probably a dozen unique characters.

Fire Emblem and Kid Icurus is the only series I can see growing substantially due to their recent spike in popularity but even they have their limits. FE will have 3 (could support 4) and KI will have 2 (could probably also support 4).

Kirby will keep their 3 characters like the previous game and Star Fox will be lucky to keep 3 in my opinion. Mother is in the same boat as Star Fox, more likely to lose a member than they are to gain one.

Metroid hasn't really gained an extra character, only taken an extra character slot, but if Ridley gets announced I will be indifferent, despite my initial hesitation to believe it.

The only other series I see which could supply more than 1 unique character is Sonic, they could even supply about 4 or 5 unique characters if given the chance, but 1 member is enough for a 3rd party game.

Anyway after this rambling this is what I believe to be the representation for each series

Mario: 5 (+4 if you consider that DK, wario and yoshi are pseudo mario characters)
DK: 2-3
LOZ: 5 (definitely one more reveal to come at least)
Metroid: 2-3
Kirby: 3 (definitely at least one more reveal)
Star Fox: 2-3 (definitely at least one more reveal)
Pokemon: 5-6 (definitely have at least one more reveal to come)
EB/Mother: 1-2
FE: 3 (Almost certain there is one more reveal to come)
KI: 1-2 (Its revival is enough to promote itself one more character)
3rd Party: 3 (there is one more character coming, im just not placing bets on anyone)

So in short probably Mario, Star Fox and Earth bound are the most over represented series that could potentially come about. Im also going to go out on a limb here and say that any series which has not had a character revealed as of yet for this game will not have more than 1 character included in the game. enter lucas and ness to spoil my theory

I accept your challenge, its incredibly easy. Impa. Next-most recurring Zelda character after Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, constantly getting appearances either as an old women or a younger one, always plays a central role (oftentimes sending off Link on his journey), was the FIRST fully playable character ever announced to appear in a Zelda game other than Link himself. I think that's quite significant. The only logical choice for a sixth Zelda rep is Impa, and Hyrule Warriors proves she wouldn't immediately be a clone of Sheik, either (not that she will be playable, or that she will use her fighting style fro Hyrule Warriors).

Unless you count Ganon as a separate character, but I don't. They should just change Ganondorf's "Beast Ganon" Final Smash to regular Ganon, problem solved. Ganondorf and Ganon are the same being, anyway, Ganon is just the monstrous form he sometimes takes.

At this point, though, I don't expect a new Zelda character. I think getting Ganondorf revamped will replace Zelda getting a new character, and I'm ok with that.


Oh, and the argument always made about Mario is how it doesn't matter if he has sub-franchises, it only matters if a character has the Mushroom icon next to their name. I don't buy that notion. I consider Mario so huge that he had to branch off into sub-franchises.

 

[Speculator]

Oh, and the argument always made about Mario is how it doesn't matter if he has sub-franchises, it only matters if a character has the Mushroom icon next to their name. I don't buy that notion. I consider Mario so huge that he had to branch off into sub-franchises.

If you consider Donkey Kong, Wario and Yoshi to be part of the Mario series (which in terms of Smash Bros, they're not) then you should also consider the Tingle games part of the Zelda series - which would make Tingle the next most recurring Zelda character and the first character other than Link to take a lead role. There's no reason to include Mario's spinoffs as part of Mario but then to specifically discount Zelda's spinoffs. Or rather, discount some spinoffs but then comfortably call Hyrule Warriors "a Zelda game" as if it were part of the main series.

 

[JaidynReiman]

If you consider Donkey Kong, Wario and Yoshi to be part of the Mario series (which in terms of Smash Bros, they're not) then you should also consider the Tingle games part of the Zelda series - which would make Tingle the next most recurring Zelda character and the first character other than Link to take a lead role. There's no reason to include Mario's spinoffs as part of Mario but then to specifically discount Zelda's spinoffs. Or rather, discount some spinoffs but then comfortably call Hyrule Warriors "a Zelda game" as if it were part of the main series.

Where did I say Hyrule Warriors is part of the main series? (Although it is being marketed that way in Japan.)

The fact is that most everyone hates Tingle outside of Japan. Plus Impa is more important to the Zelda series as a whole anyway, Tingle doesn't do anything throughout most games. (And I don't consider DK part of the main Mario series.)

 

[bilbo43]

I accept your challenge, its incredibly easy. Impa. Next-most recurring Zelda character after Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, constantly getting appearances either as an old women or a younger one, always plays a central role (oftentimes sending off Link on his journey), was the FIRST fully playable character ever announced to appear in a Zelda game other than Link himself. I think that's quite significant. The only logical choice for a sixth Zelda rep is Impa, and Hyrule Warriors proves she wouldn't immediately be a clone of Sheik, either (not that she will be playable, or that she will use her fighting style fro Hyrule Warriors).

Unless you count Ganon as a separate character, but I don't. They should just change Ganondorf's "Beast Ganon" Final Smash to regular Ganon, problem solved. Ganondorf and Ganon are the same being, anyway, Ganon is just the monstrous form he sometimes takes.

At this point, though, I don't expect a new Zelda character. I think getting Ganondorf revamped will replace Zelda getting a new character, and I'm ok with that.


Oh, and the argument always made about Mario is how it doesn't matter if he has sub-franchises, it only matters if a character has the Mushroom icon next to their name. I don't buy that notion. I consider Mario so huge that he had to branch off into sub-franchises.

youre right about impa but Im thinking that Shiek sort of takes her spotlight away if they were to include her.

 

[Speculator]

Where did I say Hyrule Warriors is part of the main series? (Although it is being marketed that way in Japan.)

You called Impa "the FIRST fully playable character ever announced to appear in a Zelda game other than Link himself". Hyrule Warriors is a spinoff. You can either count spinoffs or discount them, but if you count them then the first fully playable character other than Link himself is Tingle, not Impa.

The fact is that most everyone hates Tingle outside of Japan. Plus Impa is more important to the Zelda series as a whole anyway, Tingle doesn't do anything throughout most games. (And I don't consider DK part of the main Mario series.)

That's not really part of what I was talking about, but Impa is only crucially important in Skyward Sword. After the child section in OOT, Sheik pretty much takes over Impa's role as lead expositionist. My point was that if you want to present Hyrule Warriors as evidence for Impa's significance, you must also consider the two or three spinoff games that are entirely about Tingle.

 

[D-idara]

I absolutely hate how people still consider Yoshi, Wario and DK Mario reps.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I absolutely hate how people still consider Yoshi, Wario and DK Mario reps.

To me they are part of the Mario universe, while representing their own. So I don't think there's a "Mario over representation".

For example, Donkey Kong is shown during Rosalina Trailer, driving a Kart, despite being the "DK Country DK". Waluigi also becomes a Wario AT, despite never appearing in Wario games.

 

[Kind Dedede]

To me they are part of the Mario universe, while representing their own. So I don't think there's a "Mario over representation".

For example, Donkey Kong is shown during Rosalina Trailer, driving a Kart, despite being the "DK Country DK". Waluigi also becomes a Wario AT, despite never appearing in Wario games.

Agreed. The only person on the fence of being a Mario rep of the three is DK. He started in a game named after himself along with Jumpman and Pauline while having its sequel finally feature Mario in once again, DK's sequel. How it jumps into becoming a Mario rep is a stretch but since its become more mutual for both characters rather than claiming its purely DK's is where people get the idea.

As for Yoshi & Wario, there is no excuse since they both featured in Mario games first. Diddy isn't Mario related in the slightest since he's only been in spin offs. DK, Wario and Yoshi are all Mario reps but deserve their own series.

 

[SeatreasureReturned]

Since this is talking about over-representation in SSB4, no one can really say the Mother series is over-represented since the only things from the franchise confirmed are Mr. Saturn and Franklin Badge items.

Character wise, without knowing the full roster, you cannot really make a judgement about representation yet. I do think there are too many new Kid Icarus Items though. I also think Metriod having 3 assist trophies is a little much.

Once the final roster is confirmed, I can comment on characters. Looking back at Brawl, I think DK should have had a 3rd rep, and Star Fox and Mother probably didn't need 3 and 2 characters respectively. Although by SSB4, I think both series could warrant those reps. Fox, Falco, and Wolf are all pretty iconic, while Ness and Lucas represent different aspects of the Mother franchise.

 

[D-idara]

Since this is talking about over-representation in SSB4, no one can really say the Mother series is over-represented since the only things from the franchise confirmed are Mr. Saturn and Franklin Badge items.

Character wise, without knowing the full roster, you cannot really make a judgement about representation yet. I do think there are too many new Kid Icarus Items though. I also think Metriod having 3 assist trophies is a little much.

Once the final roster is confirmed, I can comment on characters. Looking back at Brawl, I think DK should have had a 3rd rep, and Star Fox and Mother probably didn't need 3 and 2 characters respectively. Although by SSB4, I think both series could warrant those reps. Fox, Falco, and Wolf are all pretty iconic, while Ness and Lucas represent different aspects of the Mother franchise.

Metroid's one of Nintendo's most beloved franchises, why shouldn't it get 3 ATs?

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Agreed. The only person on the fence of being a Mario rep of the three is DK. He started in a game named after himself along with Jumpman and Pauline while having its sequel finally feature Mario in once again, DK's sequel. How it jumps into becoming a Mario rep is a stretch but since its become more mutual for both characters rather than claiming its purely DK's is where people get the idea.

As for Yoshi & Wario, there is no excuse since they both featured in Mario games first. Diddy isn't Mario related in the slightest since he's only been in spin offs. DK, Wario and Yoshi are all Mario reps but deserve their own series.

Yep, Donkey is the "least Mario character", with DK Country having nothing to do with Mario (the track in Mario Kart 7 and 8 doesn't really count ). Then Wario. He may appear at first in a Mario game, and his first game, Wario Land, is subtitled "Super Mario land 3". However, he represents WarioWare, and this serie have nothing to do with Mario too (or it would be tied with every nintendo licences with 9-Volt's minigames )
And then Yoshi, who is the most "connected" to Mario. it's not like Baby Mario is one of the most important things in Yoshi's games.

Metroid's one of Nintendo's most beloved franchises, why shouldn't it get 3 ATs?

I'm absolutely fine with Metroid's 3 AT. I think it allow to counter balance Metroid's under representation. Every of those a legendary: Two main antagonists and the main creature. Plus, we have Ridley for sure. I think it's a perfect representation.

 

[D-idara]

I'm absolutely fine with Metroid's 3 AT. I think it allow to counter balance Metroid's under representation. Every of those a legendary: Two main antagonists and the main creature. Plus, we have Ridley for sure. I think it's a perfect representation.

Although I would like an underdog Assist Trophy like Rundas, or Anthony Higgs (Although I'd rather see the MANthony playable along with Ridley).

Maybe I'm biased because I love the Mario series too much, but I think it's represented just right.

 

[JaidynReiman]

You called Impa "the FIRST fully playable character ever announced to appear in a Zelda game other than Link himself". Hyrule Warriors is a spinoff. You can either count spinoffs or discount them, but if you count them then the first fully playable character other than Link himself is Tingle, not Impa.

Impa is important to the Zelda series because she's appeared since the very beginning, hell, usually one of the few characters in the actual story in the early games, and she actually starts Link off on her adventure (typically in the manual).

Hyrule Warriors is a spinoff but its still a Zelda game. Fine, count Tingle, but based on importance to the series and popularity combined, Impa wins because she doesn't have such contrasting popularity as Tingle does. No one would really object to Impa being playable. Tingle's only game where he has such a central role in the main Zelda games is Wind Waker, whereas Impa tends to always play an important role in the story. Tingle's roles in Majora's Mask, Four Swords Adventures, and Minish Cap are miniscule, completely optional, and he hasn't even appeared in any of the most recent games whatsoever.