Out of Shield Zamus

[Sundown]

I really looked around to see where we are talking about this, because i dislike making new htreads for something already discussed, but i didnt find anything so...

What options does Zamus have out of shield?

We all know that her shield grabbing is very very poor, as she can get jabbed out of it... what other options does she have? Does anyone know exactly (frames) how fast is her Fair? (im think about SH fair out of shield, just like Marth players do). If not, how good are her tilts out of shield?

So, what do you guys use out of shield... we know we dont have a really good out of shield game but there most be something reliable...

 

[Garde]

SH f-air isn't viable because her SH goes too high. Her out of shield options are probably some of the worst in the game, to be honest. In order to do any out of shield move that will actually hit an opponent, you must drop your shield first. I'm not sure how long this takes, exactly, but it does add a bit of time where she can't do anything.

Her best options after dropping her shield are tilts, imho. Her tilts set up into the most damage and the slowest one is active by frame 6 (f-tilt), while her fastest is active by frame 2 (up-tilt). Even her slowest tilt is pretty quick overall, but I can't say how long it takes for a shield to drop (I imagine it's 5 frames at most but I think it's probably closer to 2), though I imagine it is dependent upon how powerful the attack she shields is (that is the way shield stun has worked in previous games). While shield stun is greatly reduced in Brawl, I think it still follows the old rules, which would mean it varies based on attack strength.

I'd greatly appreciate it if someone actually tested shield stun properties, but that's asking quite a lot.

As it is, though, tilts are her best options overall. Jab is situational, but I don't have time to go in detail about it.

 

[ph00tbag]

Utilt. Utilt is amazing, because it's so fast. If they land too far away, you can use ftilt or dtilt. In general, as Garde said, use your tilts.

 

[K Balls]

up tilt out of shield is pretty fast, and the reach isnt so bad either!

 

[Doval]

Garde, where did you get that her Up-Tilt activates on Frame 2? If I set up a Zero Suit Samus and a Mario at 1/4 speed and have ZSS up-tilt at the same time as Mario jabs, Mario hits first every time.

That aside, I do agree that the best choices are up tilt for general punishes, or jabs when you need the fastest option possible.

 

[ph00tbag]

Garde, where did you get that her Up-Tilt activates on Frame 2? If I set up a Zero Suit Samus and a Mario at 1/4 speed and have ZSS up-tilt at the same time as Mario jabs, Mario hits first every time.

That aside, I do agree that the best choices are up tilt for general punishes, or jabs when you need the fastest option possible.

Thus far, the frame data for Zamus has suggested that utilt comes out at frame two. It's possible it comes out on frame three, but not much later.

 

[Doval]

You mean the data DeliciousCake posted? I don't trust it to be accurate down to -/+ 1 frame. First off, it was collected with a stopwatch. Secondly, a tilt with this range and damage that comes out on Frame 2 would be ridiculous. The other problem is that in Melee, practically all jabs had the fist extended on Frame 3 and I seriously doubt they've gotten faster. Zero Suit Samus's Up Tilt is most definitely slower than Mario and Fox's jabs, so I'd give it 4 frames minimum. It just doesn't add up, and the fact that it was collected with a stopwatch really doesn't help.

 

[k4polo]

I think Delicious frame data is pretty accurate. Up tilt is a very fast move and is her fastest tilts. It has after lag but the hit frames of up tilt start relatively fast. It occurs at a very early frame. So Out of shield, Up tilt is your best bet. Then if you block an attack with after lag you can go for shield throw or down Tilt.

 

[James Sparrow]

i do dsmash out of shield.

 

[CPhame]

Down smash would probably be a good option. But I think its a bit slower than f tilt, so the chances of it landing would not be as high. And also, f tilt > trip, to d tilt into a jump f air would be a great follow up, provided the trip actually happens.

 

[James Sparrow]

i only do it if their lag is enough for it to hit, and if it does it's a free 30 damage that can easily be followed by pretty much any move of your choice.