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Opinions on Clone Characters

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NATGamer

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So this may have been done before, but what do you guys think about clone characters being in Smash? Personally, I think they're added only because they take close to no effort to make and it expands the roster.

Melee had 6 (:drmario:, :ganondorfmelee:, :pichumelee:, :younglinkmelee:, :falcomelee:, :roymelee:).

Brawl had :ganondorf:and :falco:as semi-clones and included :toonlink:, :wolf:and:lucas:who were also semi-clones.

So far, Smash 4 has :4lucina:and :4tlink:.

I hate full-on clones (:drmario:, :pichumelee::4lucina:) but I've grown to like semi-clones (:falco:, :lucas:, :4tlink:, etc.). So do you want anymore and what's your general opinions on them?
 
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08skidoosh80

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Well, if they're really quick to make, and add more characters to the roster which we would not have otherwise, I say more power to 'em.
 

GunGunW

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I certainly don't want a huge amoung of clones added, but a couple here and there are fine. For example, Falco feels different enough from Fox that it's kind of his thing now, and while I would prefer Ganondorf to have his own moveset, some people like him the way he is. Plus, they're two nintendo all-stars that belong in the game regardless of clone status.

However, I would prefer not that many new ones to be added each game. Like, for example, Lucina... whatever, but Dark Pit? Please no.
 

BlueBubbee

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I think that they're generally fine, as long as they aren't around the same weight. I love Toon Link, because he's a lighter version of regular Link, whom I don't really like in Brawl. I also like Ganondorf, because he's more powerful than Falcon and has a great suicide move. I think Lucina will be great, too. Mainly because she'll be like Marth but with an easier to use moveset. It really just caters to the people who want to use a certain character, but the original doesn't fit the player's playstyle.

I think they still get programmed as if they're their own character. They have their own animations and models for their moves, and they have different abilities applied to them (weight, falling speed, dash speed, etc.). They still take the same amount of time to program. I think that clones are really a lot of fan service and aren't as bad as people say they are. So I do want some clones, but I don't want the roster to be flooded with them. Just my opinions though.
 

Burruni

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A clone, any clone is fine depending on how they answer these questions: What really makes them different? Is it positive?

64 Clones
Luigi: Had the fireball which moved entirely differently, some mobility differences, and the Up+B special felt entirely different from Mario's. Felt like a quirkier Mario, some gains, some losses.

Melee Clones
Pichu: Was a smaller, in just about every way inferior to Pikachu.
Roy: Lacked kill power spread in his moveset, had the sweet spot near the hilt which... punished you for zoning. Had a flame effect.
Young Link: I feel he was another Pichu, but people say he had some notable differences that were better.
Dr. Mario: Better air speed, cosmetic change to two specials, and I think the F-Air had different properties... nothing Mario couldn't have had that was physical.
Falco: Blaster difference, a few standards were entirely different. Brawl fixed just how clone-y he was.
Ganondorf: Slow speed, IMMENSE power. Replaced the Knee for a flat smack, and had a few other small standards moved around. Brawl differentiated him more but nerfed him too hard.

Brawl Clones
Lucas: PK Freeze feels like the control to damage ratio PK Flash should've had. PK Thunder, Fire, and the Psi Magnet differences were... really minor, but kinda the case of Luigi's fireball in 64. The different grab which could tether was... different. P:M really let him be his own, probably because he was fairly insignificant in changes.
Wolf: A more aggressively oriented, Fox. The specials all basically worked differently... but had mixed reception. Give and take.
Toon Link: A better aerial Link with more speed, less height and weight? Never really understood the difference, but I always enjoyed playing Tink more than Link.

Sm4sh Clones
Lucina: Removes the tipper and gives weaker, but balanced strength. She appears to have higher speed than Marth but VERY significantly, she has a lot better air game, judging by her lack of any real ending lag. Very little has been seen for gameplay differences.

SOME clones work well, but most of them are because of how Semi-clone they end up being.
 
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Sun & Moon

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I used to dislike them, but I've warmed up to them on this game. They're more or less "bonus characters", that means that they are added if Sakurai feels like increacing the roster size, and they take much less time to make than a original character. So, if they have time to added Dark Pit and Dr. Mario (assuminf the leak is true), than this means the game's development went smoothly, thus, giving them time to add them.
So, basically, they're just extra characters who were included with the developers extra time. So I can´t see why anyone would hate them.
 

Spinosaurus

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I think they provide an interesting and different take on existing characters without much effort that I really consider them freebies to make the game more varied. (If you will) I like clones because of that.

Like in Melee, I have two different options when it comes to Mario:

Regular Mario: The safe character, but has to work much harder to get a KO.
Doctor Mario: Riskier, but can get the kill much quicker.

Doc to me is much more interesting and fun to play, and it's examples like these is why I love clones. Do I go for the character that has an easier time to open up opponents with Captain Falcon, or will I go for the one where every correct read I make will result in a bigger reward with Ganondorf?

Clones are great, and there's no loss in having them.
 
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I love clones, honestly.
Not the fact that they ARE clones, but the fact that they add to the games overall depth and due to the fact that they're easy to add in.

Ha. Says the Mewtwo fan. Ironic, no?
 
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DoubleYooToo

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I think they should add as many clones as possible. More beloved characters, more roster variance, without very much developer exertion. Just add as many as you can. Proto Man, Ms. Pac Man, Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, clones clones clones. Just throw em all in.
 
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Chompjil

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I'm fine if they're semi-clones, and you know, in this game, there's already new character types that the possible clones we might have will be fine, even super close clones had some differences that made me play them a bit differently or more then their originals
 

PixelPasta

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I'm fine with clones if they make sense.
Clone characters that simply should not be clones, such as Ganondorf, are bad. Ganondorf deserves to be an original character, and makes no sense to be a copy of Captain Falcon.
Clone characters that aren't important or significant enough to be in the game, such as Pichu or Dr. Mario, are bad. Pichu and Dr. Mario are both simply other forms of existing characters, which is way too insignificant to warrant a separate spot.
Characters that are legitimately popular/important, that make sense to only have minor differences from another character, are fine. It is a good way to add more beloved characters without spending too much time on them. It makes the roster much bigger, but still makes logical sense.

Example: I'd be happy if they threw in Daisy, Toon Zelda, Dark Samus, Louie, Tom Nook, etc with only minor differences. The characters are still loved, and you never know, they could be de-cloned in a later game.
What they shouldn't do is add Shadow Mario, Dark Link, Igglybuff, or Knight, because they shouldn't be in the game any way, clone or not.
 

SpaceJell0

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I only like them if they make sense as additions and as clones, are different enough from their bases, and if the roster is good enough to not make them look like desperate padding.

Basically:

Good "Clones"::4luigi: :falco::lucas::wolf:
Bad Clones::4lucina: :4tlink::ganondorf::drmario::younglinkmelee::roymelee::pichumelee:
 

Wonks

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Love 'em. The more characters the better.
Sometimes it's just fun to have clone characters face their original for a match-up of similar skills (Fox vs Falco, Marth vs Roy).
 

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Maybe if I was presented with the leaked clones in the "official" way, I could have dealt with them better. Sakurai has a great way to present an idea I thought it was going to be boring and make it look awesome; like Pac-Man and Mii Fighters. A blurry picture was not the way intended for their reveal clearly.

Like my brother says "If its a different character, it deserves to be a clone". Having said this, I'm still not sold on ideas like Dark Pit. Like telling me that Dr. Mario is another guy doesnt help the issue that it would still look like Mario on a lab coat.
 
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Cpt.

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There are no point in having clones. There is some point in Semi-Clones. Falco is good because he is different enough from Fox to have a different play stlye (PM). Lucina should have just been a costume. Everything is that is actually a clone and not a semi should never be a separate character, just a costume because clones really aren't separate characters since they have the same moveset and physics.
 

Seraphim.

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I don't mind them. Clones usually play differently than the character they are cloned from, which means a different gameplay experience.

Though Ganondorf should get decloned already.
 

NATGamer

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There are no point in having clones. There is some point in Semi-Clones. Falco is good because he is different enough from Fox to have a different play stlye (PM). Lucina should have just been a costume. Everything is that is actually a clone and not a semi should never be a separate character, just a costume because clones really aren't separate characters since they have the same moveset and physics.
Thank you. Someone else finally shares the same opinion with me! Lucina is so far the only newcomer I am downright dissapointed with because she should've been just an alt costume. I've grown to accept characters like Toon Link and Falco over the years, but a character like Lucina is completely unacceptable.
 

Cpt.

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Thank you. Someone else finally shares the same opinion with me! Lucina is so far the only newcomer I am downright dissapointed with because she should've been just an alt costume. I've grown to accept characters like Toon Link and Falco over the years, but a character like Lucina is completely unacceptable.
Yup. Especially when Wit Fit, Villager, Robin, Mii all have female alternate costumes. The is literally zero reasoning behind Lucina being separate. Sakurai y u make me so salty?
 

Niala

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My opinion on clones is basically if they have any notable differences then they are worthwhile. Lucina is, in my opinion, wasted space. However, clones who took their base from another character and used it to create something new, i.e., every other clone from Brawl forward, are fine in my books.
 

NATGamer

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I only like them if they make sense as additions and as clones, are different enough from their bases, and if the roster is good enough to not make them look like desperate padding.

Basically:

Good "Clones"::4luigi: :falco::lucas::wolf:
Bad Clones::4lucina: :4tlink::ganondorf::drmario::younglinkmelee::roymelee::pichumelee:
I agree with this 100%.
 

Parallel_Falchion

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Wolf is not a clone.

It depends. I like Brawl's "clones" because, while they have their similarities, they all feel pretty significantly different from their counterpart. Toon Link is the cloniest, but even there playing him feels a lot different from playing Link. For this reason, I find it hard to really consider any Brawl character a direct clone.

Melee's, though, I'm a little mixed on. They have their differences, but they still feel really similar. I think the only real problem I have with them like this is that getting 100% makes it feel like doing all the 1P modes with some characters twice, and that sucks if I already don't like how a character plays.

Of course, this puts me in a difficult position with :4lucina:, my most wanted character for the game...who also appears to be one of the cloniest clones ever cloned (and I was never big on Marth's play style, either). I'm happy she's in, and I'm not at all surprised she's a clone, but I don't really know what to think of it otherwise.
 

Johnknight1

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Wolf is as much a clone of Fox as Jigglypuff is of Kirby.

No really, :kirby64: and :jigglypuff64: share the same forward smash, back air, down air, and down tilt, as well as probably other moves.

Wolf only shares a similar neutral B and the same down B as Fox, but even then the functionality of the neutral B is entirely different. The neutral B for Wolf is a slow moving project you can combo into and trap foes with, whereas Fox's blaster is used for zoning outside of opponent's reach and Falco's is for pressure to get foes into combos.

Wolf's up B is about as different as Pit's compared to Fox's and Falco's shared up B. Wolf's side B is additionally entirely different from Fox and Falco's. The only other thing he shares in common with Fox is a similar "space animal" style (and a Final Smash if you care about that), but quite frankly it's the most well made style in Smash, so what's the harm=???

If we're gonna nitpick like that we should point out that like 10 characters have the sex kick neutral airs, 4 characters have the sex kick back airs, and 4 characters have the "spin around" neutral air.

While I'm on the same subject...
-Lucas and Ness in Brawl only share 5 attacks (their 4 specials + a similar forward smash). One could argue their neutral B's are different though.
-Ganondorf and Captain Falcon in Brawl share 3 aerials (all but the down air and forward air, although the neutral air is quite a bit different between the two), 2 tilts (the up tilt is different), 2 smash attacks (the up B is different), 3 specials (the side B is different), and the same getup attacks and grab throws.
-Toon Link and Link in Smash 4 share 3 aerials (up, down, and forward, although the down air are very different in functionality), 3 tilts, 2 smash attacks, 4 specials, and a grab throw or 2.
-Luigi and Mario in Smash 4 share 3 aerials, 2 specials (although the up B's and neutral B's function very differently), 2 tilts, 3 smash attacks, and all their grab throws.
-Lucina and Marth share all the same moves, except the hitboxes, functionality, length, and strong points of many moves are changed. Also, Lucina has a timing effect (similar to most characters) where when in the attack determines the strength of the move, whereas Marth has a tipper mechanic (where it matters what part/hitboxes of the attack lands).

This subtle difference between :4marth: and :4lucina: is huge. It changes the entire dynamic you approach these characters in every aspect of the gameplay. And for the record, no attack is both timing based and has a tipper. It's one, the other, or neither.

So considering all that, after Lucina and Marth, Ganondorf and Captain Falcon (in Brawl) are the closest to one another, while after that it's either Toon Link and Link or Mario and Luigi (discounting Melee clones).
Well, if they're really quick to make, and add more characters to the roster which we would not have otherwise, I say more power to 'em.
Pretty much this.

On top of that, clones become less and less alike in each smash game.

The only time we've ever had definitively bad clones are as followed:
:luigi64: (64 only) : This is controversial perhaps, but I say this because all of :luigi64:'s changes from :mario64: make :luigi64: weaker (sans :luigi64:'s up B and slightly better speed).

In Melee :luigimelee: got several big fixes. In Brawl :luigi2: got a few minor improvements. Fortunately Smash 4 :4luigi: got many improvements, so there's no reason to oppose :4luigi: now. :luigi64: in many ways doesn't even feel like a Smash 64 character, actually.

:drmario: : A super last minute addition meant to pad the roster with minimal differences. At the last minute it probably came down to :drmario: being playable or us getting a trophy of :luigimelee:'s nose. :drmario: has some power differences and hitbox differences from :mariomelee: that essentially just make :drmario: a slightly better :mariomelee:. Also, :drmario: can dunk with his forward air (which :mario2:and:4mario: don't do nearly as well), which is always super hype.

If :drmario: had more offensive changes like that for all of his moves and got a few unique moves, I wouldn't see why people would object to having :drmario: be playable again instead of having more trophies of Kirby hats.

:roymelee: : Designed to be a stronger :marthmelee: with a middle of the sword tipper, that didn't work. He did less damage than :marthmelee:, had less combos than :marthmelee:, and had a weak "water noodle" tipper that made him vastly inferior to :marthmelee:.

If :roymelee: had his original design be a success in the same way :marthmelee: was, we would have a :falconmelee:/:ganondorfmelee: situation where both characters are popular. I think if :roymelee: ever comes back :roypm: should have more stab attacks, more actual strength, and a finesse minimal pre-lag, higher than average post-lag style that separates :roypm: from :4marth: and :4lucina:.

:pichumelee: : Was a joke that was meant to be a weaker version of :pikachumelee:. It sucked because :pichumelee: could have been the purest glass cannon smash has ever seen. It's a crying shame that never happened (although in Melee SD Remix it did).
 
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Sobreviviente

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There are no point in having clones. There is some point in Semi-Clones. Falco is good because he is different enough from Fox to have a different play stlye (PM). Lucina should have just been a costume. Everything is that is actually a clone and not a semi should never be a separate character, just a costume because clones really aren't separate characters since they have the same moveset and physics.
They dont have the same physics, they just share animations.
Real clones doesnt really exist in smash, even dr mario is a completelly different world of moves...but i understand :p
 

08skidoosh80

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Wolf is as much a clone of Fox as Jigglypuff is of Kirby.

No really, :kirby64: and :jigglypuff64: share the same forward smash, back air, down air, and down tilt, as well as probably other moves.

Wolf only shares a similar neutral B and the same down B as Fox, but even then the functionality of the neutral B is entirely different. The neutral B for Wolf is a slow moving project you can combo into and trap foes with, whereas Fox's blaster is used for zoning outside of opponent's reach and Falco's is for pressure to get foes into combos.

Wolf's up B is about as different as Pit's compared to Fox's and Falco's shared up B. Wolf's side B is additionally entirely different from Fox and Falco's. The only other thing he shares in common with Fox is a similar "space animal" style (and a Final Smash if you care about that), but quite frankly it's the most well made style in Smash, so what's the harm=???

If we're gonna nitpick like that we should point out that like 10 characters have the sex kick neutral airs, 4 characters have the sex kick back airs, and 4 characters have the "spin around" neutral air.

While I'm on the same subject...
-Lucas and Ness in Brawl only share 5 attacks (their 4 specials + a similar forward smash). One could argue their neutral B's are different though.
-Ganondorf and Captain Falcon in Brawl share 3 aerials (all but the down air and forward air, although the neutral air is quite a bit different between the two), 2 tilts (the up tilt is different), 2 smash attacks (the up B is different), 3 specials (the side B is different), and the same getup attacks and grab throws.
-Toon Link and Link in Smash 4 share 3 aerials (up, down, and forward, although the down air are very different in functionality), 3 tilts, 2 smash attacks, 4 specials, and a grab throw or 2.
-Luigi and Mario in Smash 4 share 3 aerials, 2 specials (although the up B's and neutral B's function very differently), 2 tilts, 3 smash attacks, and all their grab throws.
-Lucina and Marth share all the same moves, except the hitboxes, functionality, length, and strong points of many moves are changed. Also, Lucina has a timing effect (similar to most characters) where when in the attack determines the strength of the move, whereas Marth has a tipper mechanic (where it matters what part/hitboxes of the attack lands).

This subtle difference between :4marth: and :4lucina: is huge. It changes the entire dynamic you approach these characters in every aspect of the gameplay. And for the record, no attack is both timing based and has a tipper. It's one, the other, or neither.

So considering all that, after Lucina and Marth, Ganondorf and Captain Falcon (in Brawl) are the closest to one another, while after that it's either Toon Link and Link or Mario and Luigi (discounting Melee clones).

Pretty much this.

On top of that, clones become less and less alike in each smash game.

The only time we've ever had definitively bad clones are as followed:
:luigi64: (64 only) : This is controversial perhaps, but I say this because all of :luigi64:'s changes from :mario64: make :luigi64: weaker (sans :luigi64:'s up B and slightly better speed).

In Melee :luigimelee: got several big fixes. In Brawl :luigi2: got a few minor improvements. Fortunately Smash 4 :4luigi: got many improvements, so there's no reason to oppose :4luigi: now. :luigi64: in many ways doesn't even feel like a Smash 64 character, actually.

:drmario: : A super last minute addition meant to pad the roster with minimal differences. At the last minute it probably came down to :drmario: being playable or us getting a trophy of :luigimelee:'s nose. :drmario: has some power differences and hitbox differences from :mariomelee: that essentially just make :drmario: a slightly better :mariomelee:. Also, :drmario: can dunk with his forward air (which :mario2:and:4mario: don't do nearly as well), which is always super hype.

If :drmario: had more offensive changes like that for all of his moves and got a few unique moves, I wouldn't see why people would object to having :drmario: be playable again instead of having more trophies of Kirby hats.

:roymelee: : Designed to be a stronger :marthmelee: with a middle of the sword tipper, that didn't work. He did less damage than :marthmelee:, had less combos than :marthmelee:, and had a weak "water noodle" tipper that made him vastly inferior to :marthmelee:.

If :roymelee: had his original design be a success in the same way :marthmelee: was, we would have a :falconmelee:/:ganondorfmelee: situation where both characters are popular. I think if :roymelee: ever comes back :roypm: should have more stab attacks, more actual strength, and a finesse minimal pre-lag, higher than average post-lag style that separates :roypm: from :4marth: and :4lucina:.

:pichumelee: : Was a joke that was meant to be a weaker version of :pikachumelee:. It sucked because :pichumelee: could have been the purest glass cannon smash has ever seen. It's a crying shame that never happened.
Now if only we could get some more changes to :toonlink: and :ganondorf:.
(Wow, two Zelda characters. Sakurai must really hate The Legend of Zelda:troll:)
 

Cpt.

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They dont have the same physics, they just share animations.
Real clones doesnt really exist in smash, even dr mario is a completelly different world of moves...but i understand :p
I wasn't specifying Lucina when I said physics, but yeah "real clones" don't exist, but Doc and Lucina are pretty much as close as they are going to get without being actually just a costume.
 

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As long as they make sense, Ganondorf doesn't make sense to be a clone. Toon Link, Lucina, Falco, and to a lesser extant Wolf and Lucas I'm fine with.
 

Cpt.

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As long as they make sense, Ganondorf doesn't make sense to be a clone. Toon Link, Lucina, Falco, and to a lesser extant Wolf and Lucas I'm fine with.
Yeah, I think I would be less mad about other clones if Ganondorf wasn't a clone XD
 

Naglfarii

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I don't really like them period. I want a moveset to be devoted to one character that makes the best possible use of it.

If you look at league of legends, they have 120 Champions but they do a pretty good job of deciding what the special appeal of each champ is and making them all feel distinct. That's what I want from smash, I don't need fox remix

And I HATE that Lucina is just marth training wheels
 
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Johnknight1

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Really though, aside from :pichumelee:, :roymelee: (mostly due to bad design), and kinda :drmario:, Melee's clones were great. :drmario: had some different strengths to :mariomelee: that makes their approach and style different offensively (defensively they were essentially the same).

:mariomelee:/:drmario: and :luigimelee: are insanely different because of :luigimelee:'s unique movement, floaty nature, and wavedashing.

:younglinkmelee: and :linkmelee: rely on entirely different brands on offense. :linkmelee: focuses on pressure and controlling space whereas :younglinkmelee: focuses on projectiles and playing the keep away game.

:ganondorfmelee: and :falconmelee: similarly play extremely differently. :ganondorfmelee: focuses on closing the gap and a constantly "in your face" style. :falconmelee: focuses on speed, agility, movement, and just really working around the opponent.

:falcomelee: and :foxmelee:... I could write essays about how different they are. ESSAYS!!! :falcomelee: is essentially :fox64: with a new skin. :fox64: used a lot of laser spam and grabs and aerials/tilts for combos. :falcomelee: is like that, but more refined, with more options in a game with a lot more defensive technology. :foxmelee: is a character that's all about speed. Speed of movement, attacking, as well as just constant
Now if only we could get some more changes to :toonlink: and :ganondorf:.
(Wow, two Zelda characters. Sakurai must really hate The Legend of Zelda:troll:)
Well honestly :toonlink: was pretty well made for Brawl. He had a different kind of projectile game from :link2:, had a very different aerial game, and was all about speed.

:ganondorfmelee:... I explained. :ganondorf: continued that, minus being a part of the Hyrule tier with :link2: and :zelda:. Regardless :4link: got a lot of changes (:4link: need it more than :4tlink:), while with :4tlink: they focused more on making :4tlink: more like :4tlink:, which is a big reason why they play different.

Still, :4tlink: should be a bit different with the tilts and some of the down and forward smashes IMO, as well as the grab throws.
 

NATGamer

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Wolf is not a clone.

It depends. I like Brawl's "clones" because, while they have their similarities, they all feel pretty significantly different from their counterpart. Toon Link is the cloniest, but even there playing him feels a lot different from playing Link. For this reason, I find it hard to really consider any Brawl character a direct clone.

Melee's, though, I'm a little mixed on. They have their differences, but they still feel really similar. I think the only real problem I have with them like this is that getting 100% makes it feel like doing all the 1P modes with some characters twice, and that sucks if I already don't like how a character plays.

Of course, this puts me in a difficult position with :4lucina:, my most wanted character for the game...who also appears to be one of the cloniest clones ever cloned (and I was never big on Marth's play style, either). I'm happy she's in, and I'm not at all surprised she's a clone, but I don't really know what to think of it otherwise.
I totally agree that Wolf isn't really a clone. He's one of my mains in Brawl and I prefer him over Fox and Falco. It's sad that Lucina is essentially an easier to master version of Marth (I would've preferred her to be an alt costume, but to each their own), but we should not get another clone like her in Smash 4.
 

Johnknight1

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And I HATE that Lucina is just marth training wheels
Sure, :4lucina: doesn't have a tipper mechanic like :4marth:, but :4lucina: has a timing mechanic, which is roughly just as hard to function with, and functions in a completely different way.

For those of you who don't know what this is, you probably know what a "sweetspot" and "sourspot" are. These are all timing based.

Captain Falcon's knees are a perfect example of this. If you time his knees right, you get the electric knee "sweetspot" that does a high amount of damage, knockback, and hitstun. If you time the knee wrong, especially at the end, you get a "sourspot" that does a low amount of damage, knockback, and hitstun.

Therefore, with :4lucina:'s moves, it will focus on the timing of when you land the move, not the placement of the landing of the move like you do with :marthmelee:, :marth:, and :4marth:.

This, along with a probably less ground and defense-centric style is why many top :marthmelee: and :marth: players are more interested in picking up :4lucina: rather than :4marth:.
 

Naglfarii

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Sure, :4lucina: doesn't have a tipper mechanic like :4marth:, but :4lucina: has a timing mechanic, which is roughly just as hard to function with, and functions in a completely different way.

For those of you who don't know what this is, you probably know what a "sweetspot" and "sourspot" are. These are all timing based.

Captain Falcon's knees are a perfect example of this. If you time his knees right, you get the electric knee "sweetspot" that does a high amount of damage, knockback, and hitstun. If you time the knee wrong, especially at the end, you get a "sourspot" that does a low amount of damage, knockback, and hitstun.

Therefore, with :4lucina:'s moves, it will focus on the timing of when you land the move, not the placement of the landing of the move like you do with :marthmelee:, :marth:, and :4marth:.

This, along with a probably less ground and defense-centric style is why many top :marthmelee: and :marth: players are more interested in picking up :4lucina: rather than :4marth:.
What're you basing that on because I've seen 2 different sources saying Lucina is just like marth except without the sweet spots, intended to make her easier to play and obviously not as powerful
 

Neanderthal

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I like clones like Lucina, Falco and Lucas who are their own character and it makes sense for them to have the same kind of moveset as their counterpart.
Would've liked to see an Impa clone of Sheik too.

I absolutely hate characters like Doctor Mario and Dark Pit. IMO it degrades the original character and lowers the importance of a character spot.
I'd rather they not be in the game at all, or just be costume changes.
Toon Link is an understandable exception though IMO.

But the worst of all is characters like Ganondorf who deserve their own moveset derived from their great variety of attacks in their games.... But get given a generic cloneset that doesn't even make sense. (G'dorf has never been a hand to hand combat fighter in any of his 8 or so Zelda games).

/atypical rant of the usually very positive speculator.
 
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Johnknight1

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What're you basing that on because I've seen 2 different sources saying Lucina is just like marth except without the sweet spots, intended to make her easier to play and obviously not as powerful
Marth doesn't have any sweet spot moves at all (sans maybe his side B).

Nearly all of Marth's moves have a tipper mechanic.

Tipper = the location of where the move lands. It's the edge of the sword for Marth (and the middle for Roy).

"Sweet spot" = the proper timing of landing the move. Again, Captain Falcon's electric knee vs. non-electric knee is a perfect example of this.

Let me repeat myself.

A move either has a tipper mechanic, a sweet/sour spot mechanic, or neither.

And again, the top :marthmelee: players in PPMD (currently the best :marthmelee:), PewPewU, and KDJ and the very best :marth: player in Mike Haze express more interest in :4lucina: than :4marth: in Smash 4. They wouldn't do that if :4lucina: was merely an "easy mode" version of :4marth:.
 
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Naglfarii

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Ok whatever, Lucina doesn't have either as far as anyone actually knows
 

IceBreakerXY

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there ok full on clones like Doctor mario or pichu are stupid but semi clones like Lucas or falco are fine.That's why i want Dark pit in the game he can be either a unqiue moveset or a semi clone.
 

Banjodorf

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I actually like clones. The only clone I'm not keen on BEING a clone is :ganondorf: for obvious reasons, but I still really enjoy his play style.

Even clones like :4lucina: are awesome to me because they provide different takes on existing play styles. And since I'm not really keen on :4marth: as a character I look forward to actually working working with :4lucina: a bit.

Also pretty excited about Doc and Pittoo if those turn out true, because I played alot of Doc in Melee and want to see an alternate take on Pit's new moveset.
 
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MasterOfKnees

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I like them when they're just here to beef up the roster, I think the only minus they bring along with them is that it gives you a higher chance to end up with particular movesets via random. This isn't a problem now that the roster is so huge though, but Tournament mode in Melee quickly becomes very redundant because of the high chance of a Mario, Link, Pikachu and Marth moveset, Ganondorf and Falco play differently enough for me to not really dislike them.

Still, I do prefer some of the clones to their original counterparts, namely Falco and I'm fairly confident in saying Lucina too, and while I prefer the captain I do also find Ganondorf to be loads of fun on his own, so I'm okay with them in general.
 
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Sabrewulf238

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I don't mind semi-clones too much.

Generally for clones I still take into account their importance. Even though Ganondorf is a clone I'd never suggest him cut because of it.

My main issue with full on clones is that it makes it easier for (in my opinion) less worthy characters making it in. Characters that probably wouldn't make it on to the roster if every character had to be completely original. If they had to make it in on their own merits rather than piggy backing off another character.
 
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