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Olimar is a broken character

fkacyan

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
6,226
No, I'm not saying he's cheap. I'm saying that his character design is broken and that there are several flaws that make him too powerful, especially against certain characters. All of these issues involve Pikmin.

The main issue is that Pikmin can take damage. Yes, this is a huge issue. Now, you may just say 'Hit through them!' or 'Make sure they're never in your way!' Well, the issue isn't dodging them or hitting through them. It's about one-charge attacks, or attacks that stop at impact.

A simple test is all you need to prove that Pikmin are broken. Charge a blast with Samus. Throw a Pikmin onto the Samus with a side-B. When Samus attempts to fire the charged blast, it will hit the Pikmin on her and stop. This is true of any Pikmin Olimar has thrown. This affects all projectile and ranged attacks, as well as moves like Skull Bash (Pikachu), Peach Bomber (Peach), and some Dairs like Toon Link's.

The issue with this, as one can easily see, is that many characters have moves made very useless by Pikmin - the moves that would allow a character to stay out of Olimar's close range moves, which have a decent range and great power themselves.

In conjunction with this, Pikmin are too easy to get. A Pikmin dies? Press B, and another little expendable soldier appears. Don't worry, the difference between a leaf and flower Pikmin is almost unnoticible, despite the fact that the difference in the actual game was huge.

When compared to his only real weakness - The fact that he can be easily edgehogged - this amazing defensive capacity coupled with the fact that losing a pikmin to a blocked ranged attack means squat the only conclusion I can come to is that Olimar needs retuning as far as the way Pikmin work. Don't get yourselves in a fuss - I love Olimar, and wanted him in Smash ever since I first played Pikmin. However, in his current state, Olimar has an unfair advantage over the majority of characters who could have possibly countered him.
 

Blade Knight

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
722
Yes but Olimar Is the subject to alot of gimping you can KO an olimar off the side with one hit. He is also light and easy to knock off plus if your a good brawler you know not to give Olimar the time to pluck another bundle of joy/pain.He's easy to gimp and is very combo based when it comes to offense.

~Blade
 

fkacyan

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
6,226
Loosing to an Olimar much? heh.
Actually, no, I tend to beat Olimars using Peach or Pit. The issue is that certain moves shouldn't get gimped by idiotic mechanics, and a Pikmin on my back shouldn't stop me from firing an Aura Sphere.
 

fkacyan

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
6,226
Yes but Olimar Is the subject to alot of gimping you can KO an olimar off the side with one hit. He is also light and easy to knock off plus if your a good brawler you know not to give Olimar the time to pluck another bundle of joy/pain.He's easy to gimp and is very combo based when it comes to offense.

~Blade
There's so much to pick apart here. Let' start with this:

you can KO an olimar off the side with one hit

Maybe at high percents, if you manage to land a strong hit on him without the Olimar being smart enough to dodge it. Keep in mind, an Olimar player has no need to, nor will they in general, approach. They can wait for you to come to them and use his Smashes or grabs, which have a very decent range on them.

not to give Olimar the time to pluck another bundle of joy/pain.

You know it takes almost no time at all to pull a full troop of six Pikmin out, correct?

very combo based when it comes to offense.

Actually, Olimar can win by knocking you back with Smashes and building damage by throwing Pikmin onto you.

The issue is that Pikmin are the counter to Olimar's possible counters. It's obvious that an an exceptional player will beat a bad player. The issue is that an exceptional Olimar has some mechanics that favor him winning over another exceptional character, and arguable these mechanics are idiotic (I'd love to see an explanation for the Charge Shot / Aura Sphere issue, by the way).
 

Psyflame

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
58
Location
Berkeley, CA
Marth is broken, he can swat projectiles.

Link is broken, when you stand still his shield blocks projectiles.

Pit is broken, he can spam arrows for free.

It takes more than a counter to your favorite moves to make a character broken, I'm afraid.
 

Whu

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
6
this kids just being an ******* for the attention....
its so funny when ike noobs get mad that their side B cant cut through pikmin
 

xS A M U R A Ix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 22, 2003
Messages
656
Location
Raleigh, NC
There's a downside to that property of pikmin though. Moves like metaknight's mach tornado eat through EVERY SINGLE MOVE INVOLVING A PIKMIN. Mach tornado even beats out forward, down, and up smash.

In the future, don't try shooting samus's charged shot when you have a pikmin on you.
 

Ultimatum479

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
167
Location
Delray Beach, Florida
*nods at Psyflame*

I will certainly agree that Olimar counters some characters just _too_ well, but then other characters do the same to Olimar. He's the kind of character who's not average against all but instead great against many, average against a few, and horrible against many. He slaughters big, slow characters without any trouble whatsoever, while any space animal with half a brain will reflect the crap out of the Pikmin, rendering even some of his Smash attacks useless and dangerous. Learn MetaKnight and Pit for another couple of good counters, and pick Skyworld if you _really_ wanna exploit Olimar's weakness.

He's not broken at all. He just requires a different playstyle to beat than, say, DK.
 

kells

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
12
In my humble opinion, I think calling Olimar a broken character is a hasty conclusion. I do not, however, think that it would be unreasonable to predict that Olimar will fall very high on the tier list, possibly top tier. It's only an educated guess though, so take it for what it's worth.
 

Fatmanonice

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
18,432
Location
Somewhere... overthinking something
NNID
Fatmanonice
I personally have a hard time calling Olimar a "broken" character because he's by far the hardest character to master because of how weird his moveset is. Yeah, in the right hands, he's a beast but he's definately not someone who you can instantly be good with like Marth or Pit. Being able to effectively play as him takes a lot of practice. If someone is causing havoc with the elvin astronaut then they have very well earned it.
 

PNTBuenaPark

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
11
i played with olimar but i think the only "counter" to him is marth, i mean you can keep throwing the pik min but marths sword justs swats them like flies, 1 stroke just swats your army of pikmin.
 

scalpel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
341
Location
Hawaii
Switch FC
SW-1322-7073-9341
When compared to his only real weakness - The fact that he can be easily edgehogged -
Okay, I think this is an understatement. This is such an important fact that, in my opinion, justifies why Olimar's Pikmin are not broken. You're right, it does seem kind of unfair that Olimar can negate many powerful attacks by other characters, simply by throwing Pikmin. It's like an ultimate defense. However, that weakness that you stated is more than enough to balance out Olimar's defenses. I am willing to bet that a LARGE MAJORITY of total Olimar deaths, from everyone who uses Olimar, is due to tethering issues. I'm talking over 80% of all Olimar deaths. That is just incredible. So, I think it is fair to make Olimar a bit better than most other characters on the stage. I think it's totally fair to give his Pikmin some unique, defensive properties. Without these attributes, Olimar will have next to nothing. He will just be another Pichu - neat, but absolutely not tournament material.
 

fkacyan

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
6,226
Marth is broken, he can swat projectiles.

Link is broken, when you stand still his shield blocks projectiles.

Pit is broken, he can spam arrows for free.

It takes more than a counter to your favorite moves to make a character broken, I'm afraid.
It takes more than idiotic points to refute an argument, I'm afraid.

The issue isn't projectiles being blocked, period, it's the fact that it can block almost any ranged move, even if the Pikmin is attached to you.
 

Psyflame

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
58
Location
Berkeley, CA
If you'd like to bring this to an ad hominem discussion, then I suggest you leave...

In addition, if your idea of a strategy is to camp against an Olimar then the issue is not with his moveset, it's with what's being used to counter it; Olimar does very poorly against characters who don't allow him to organize and formulate a plot. I don't go into Meta-Knight's boards and complain when I lose, so I encourage you to follow my example.
 
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