Olimar general discussion

[kidd_guez]

So i went to a tournament yesterday and got to get into the side where the better NYC players talk and things and started a pretty big convo about Olimar. I had like 3 people playing this character. Everyone thinks hes terrible in this patch or just lacking something that lets him be a serious fighter. But many people in the venue agreed that if he was fixed they would pick him up right away.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

OK, I charted out the pathway for someone to be able to get 3 purples. I stoped after that because getting the 4th Purple is likely to NEVER happen, which kinda makes me fine with random Pluck, as long as each one is equally useful (not all as useful as Purple though).

It may look confusing but this is the process of Set Order Pluck.

RYB+W
-RYBW
+PRYB
P-RYB
P+WPR
PP-WR
PP+YB
PP-YB
PP+WP
PPPW

Honestly, it's a lot of work to get what you want, but you at least quickly get 2 of any Pikmin you want, especially if it's RBY.

Also, I agree with B.W. 100%. Me and Steel had this conversation a few times on the boards and Skype, and he echoed the problems I had with his system exactly.

Sorry Steel, but that one is dead. If you have other alternatives, I'd love to hear them, but honestly it'll be pretty hard to top Set Order.

*Edit: Fixed the Pluck order to accuratly represent the order.

 

[B.W.]

I like that list to show what it . Though the order is actually RYBWP.

If you're good at throwing your Pikmin out mid fight though you can still consistently get Purples pretty quick.

 

[Matthew]

I think that pikmin throw should be able to stick onto enemies through shields. After all, they are technically grabbing onto the enemy. Pk fire activates on shields and snakes down special can stick people through shields, so I don't see why this is not very possible. The reduced pikmin count makes spamming pikmin throw recklessly dangerous anyways, so I think this may be a fair buff.

 

[B.W.]

I've mentioned this to at least 2 PMBR members IRL before.

We'll see what happens

 

[BC.]

Just went 12-0 in pools at the Gameguys Intergalactic Kegger with Olimar
I'm lucky that Armada, M2K, or Zero weren't in my pool

 

[B.W.]

I'm glad people are starting to do well with Olimar.

As of late, I've been placing progressively worse with the character. I partially blame RNG, and I definitely put some of the blame on Pikmin failing to recover, but most of all I'm not feeling the character really matches me.

I'll probably play him for fun still and for specific matchups, but the character isn't bringing be very far in tourny anymore so I think I have to hang him up.

 

[WIDL]

Got 3rd at a tourney playing mainly Olimar and Toon Link (bottom tiers representin' lol). I could have done better in Winner's Finals (lost 3-0 to Calle W's pocket Melee Falco) and in Loser's Finals (lost 3-2 to MikeHaggar's Wolf and Wario - I went some Pikachu here). I was really burned out from TOing and lack of sleep. But overall I'm pretty happy. I gotta learn how to keep my head cool in terms of Pikmin order though. I'm definitely looking to win PM at a new tourney this weekend (since Calle W and MikeHaggar are not going, heh)!

I did manage to win PM teams - I played Olimar almost every game and my friend went all Zelda. Olimar is seriously powerful as a tank. I went some Toon Link in GFs too after we dropped the first set due to me playing horrible as Olimar. Toon Link's grounded up-b (/out of shield) is too good. Especially in teams.

 

[robosteven]

Olimar is godly in teams. I teamed with POOB at the last weekly I was at and we got pretty damn far, made it to Losers Semifinals.

B.W., that's a shame. You seem really knowledgeable about the character. I'm sticking with him though, the juggles and nairs are too fun to stop.

 

[Matthew]

I have not really been playing Olimar very recently but I have to get back into the character. Because of irl stuff I have not really had the time to go to many tournaments.

 

[B.W.]

He's fun for sure, but I've always been more of a zoning player which is not Olimar's strongest trait.

I did put a lot of work into Olimar so it's sad to make the change but results don't lie. Also yesterday was the third tournament in a row I was eliminated from thanks to Pikmin not recovering with me.

 

[robosteven]

He needs tweaks, I tell ya hwhat.

 

[BC.]

Ended up getting 12th. Good for a national but I'm still disappointed. One more win and I would be top 8, meaning I'd earn a paycheck. Lost to Fox in winners and Marth in losers while on stream with all my friends watching
I really started to feel Olimar's limitations in those matchups, which I think most of us agree are terrible for Oli. A Zelda player whom I beat in pools ended up outplacing me, so my bracket could have been better =/ oh well

 

[Matthew]

Ended up getting 12th. Good for a national but I'm still disappointed. One more win and I would be top 8, meaning I'd earn a paycheck. Lost to Fox in winners and Marth in losers while on stream with all my friends watching
I really started to feel Olimar's limitations in those matchups, which I think most of us agree are terrible for Oli. A Zelda player whom I beat in pools ended up outplacing me, so my bracket could have been better =/ oh well

I don't blame you for loosing to a Marth. Marth is one of Olimar's worst matchups imo.

 

[robosteven]

YO THE ROB MATCHUP IS WEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRD

 

[Matthew]

Soooo... tethers are getting nerfed, and the last thing Olimar needed was a worse recovery. Hopefully the PMBR will do something to his recovery to make up for it. Check the Project M website for more info.

 

[B.W.]

Except his recovery isn't even bad. Every tether is being nerfed. His recovery will get "worse" but honestly 2 tethers makes things a a bit better for everyone's recovery/offstage game.

Still, it'd be nice if he got boosted when he had less Pikmin in line.

 

[Virum]

The main issue I have with Olimar's recovery is the fact his tether is unintuitive and inconsistent with literally every other tether in the game. Every tether over extends past where it realistically should except Olimar's which under extends. When Lucas' tiny ass snake extends further than your 3 Pikmin chain you can't help but feel frustrated. And if that's already bad enough you also have to deal with idiotic Pikmin AI so the length of your chain isn't even reliable. I've died at incredibly key moments due to the move's total lack of reliability.

The distance of his recovery itself isn't even the issue.

 

[B.W.]

Distance is fine as is, but you're right about the rest.

One of the reasons I put Olimar to the side is because I lost matches I felt I should have won too many times and it was all literally because Pikmin would fall apart when recovering.

This wouldn't have been an issue if Olimar jumped higher with his Up-B when he had less Pikmin like advertised.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

Distance is partially fine to me. If it connected at any point on the Pikmin, and they returned to meet the Up B consistently, I wouldn't have a problem. But man... he is so easy to edge guard. I hope he doesn't get hit hard with the tether update. if anything, it needs to get boosted. If you disagree with him being easily edgeguarded, then your not playing against good/confident edge guarders. All they need to do is grab the ledge after it latches and drop into an ariel to smack him when he's hanging or zipping up. He has no sweet spot so when he zips up, they can time it to place a hitbox as you come up and hit you.

His only real defense is an Uair but that can often put you too far below the stage where you can't recover. Sure he can get back if they let him, but if he's challanged, he's at a HUGE disadvantage. I think it's too much of a disadvantige imo.

 

[B.W.]

Tether only characters are easily edgeguarded period.

I'm a little worried for Olimar, ZSS and Ivysaur tbh.

 

[robosteven]

Tether only characters are easily edgeguarded period.

Oli and Ivy, yes.

ZSS, god no. Despite only having the tether to rely on, that **** goes so far and she moves so fast in the air that it's really hard to consistently edgeguard.

Plus, if you still have your second jump available, ZSS's up-b actually propels her upwards a bit, plus her up-b doesn't force her into freefall. I mean, she doesn't have the bounce that Oli has when he does Pikmin Chain, but her recovery's really damn good for a tether-only character.

Ivy has that dair, too.

Oli got shafted.

Oli got shafted and I am salty.

 

[B.W.]

I've never really found ZSS a hard to edgeguard character.

Drop down N-Air works on her just as well as it does every other tether character

 

[WIDL]

I like the tether rework, but I tweeted once that I hope they do keep in mind that Olimar might suffer the most from this. I think his recovery is good as it is now (except that up-b above the ledge jank), but it might become horrible if this applies as much to him. But, is it risky to ledgehog Olimar without invincibility (I can't remember, so I'm just asking)? Do you get stagespiked?

 

[B.W.]

You'll get smacked away, but once you know how to deal with it, it's seriously not a problem.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

While i feel oli's tether is pretty bad (shorter then it should be, doesnt grab when it looks like it should, pikim fall away from you when u get sent off stage) my biggest issue with his recovery is his neutral b doesnt get reset when hit. Look at someone like zss who every time she gets his can down b again, or diddy kong and his side b. It seems like an odd choice to not let him use his neutral B again for recovery when hit.

 

[B.W.]

The problem isn't Olimar though it's them. It's going to be dealt with in 3.5

 

[HermitHelmet]

I've been playing a lot of Olimar recently. A LOT. And, I'm curious, what could be improved in 3.5 for the Tether nerf, pertaining to Olimar, and also, what is the frame window for Short Hop -> Waveland Side-B?

 

[steelguttey]

we have no idea yet. were pretty sure something good is happening.

and i have no idea but basically the trick is to slide your hand from x/y to b as fast as possible. then you have a 5 frame window or something

EDIT: yep. 5 frames exactly if you do it immediately after short hop.

 

[HermitHelmet]

we have no idea yet. were pretty sure something good is happening.

and i have no idea but basically the trick is to slide your hand from x/y to b as fast as possible. then you have a 5 frame window or something

Ah, thanks =] I really appreciate it.

EDIT: Imma lurk in this thread for the time being.

 

[SShane]

Someone please critique my vids and tell me what i should do more and what i shouldnt it would be very appreciated

 

[steelguttey]

if you want to we could make a video lobby and you could join and we would critique you there but its hard to get alot of people in one place

 

[Matthew]

we have no idea yet. were pretty sure something good is happening.

and i have no idea but basically the trick is to slide your hand from x/y to b as fast as possible. then you have a 5 frame window or something

EDIT: yep. 5 frames exactly if you do it immediately after short hop.

I have not played olimar in forever, but from what i can remember the short hop side b waveland can be difficult at first, but once you get the hang of it, it is pretty easy. What i really think is difficult is the short hop fair waveland.

 

[Ningildo]

So I've been using Olimar for some time now (like..5-6 months-ish?) and it's been pretty fun, with the uthrow into usmash into another into uair into another(x4) among others, although I've only recently begun trying to apply wavedashes and dd into my game (can't get the SH pikmin toss into waveland down just yet). Also been lurking for months on these forums and it seems like I won't be eaten alive if I try to talk other oli mains here.

What I really want to ask, though, is how does Oli deal with ZSS? I know Pikmin Toss will collide with her Paralyzer shots, but unlike, say, the Mario MU, the endlag on it isn't long enough for Oli to get a grab in and start something (hell, I think it's more the other way around). Rushing her down isn't a viable option, as SideB and SH Nair both say hi. I've had some luck tryiing to land some spaced Fairs (especially flowered yellows), but it's not exactly consistent. It's been rather annoying and I'd like to know if I'm just a scrub and missing something fundamental or otherwise (I'd have brought this up on the matchup thread, but they're busy with Ike atm and I feel this would derail the discussion there).

 

[Master_Morrison]

Yellow Pikmin also absorb her paralyzer and nair I believe
So if you latch one on she will be forced to remove it with another move or ignore it
I camp her with yellows
Unfortunately I don't have many videos on how I play but I make people rage and curse at me because I play extremely defensive
And campy
I pressure opponents from a far enough to either get a fair or grab or pivot grab
What I feel olimar should get is a taunt that helps speed up the Pikmin flower rate similar to lucario getting a charge

 

[Ningildo]

Okay, play more defensively with yellows, then. Gonna have a match with the ZSS user at weeklies to see how that goes.

These forums feel too inactive at times. Prolly just me.

 

[Dawnhowl11167]

On the pic of the day it said that alph would be a playable character but he docent seem to be showing up on the final roster so whats up does this mean dlc

 

[steelguttey]

On the pic of the day it said that alph would be a playable character but he docent seem to be showing up on the final roster so whats up does this mean dlc

first of all

this is project m, not smash 4

second, alph is an alternate costume for olimar, meaning its the same character. no dlc has been confirmed yet.

 

[Shokio]

I think that pikmin throw should be able to stick onto enemies through shields. After all, they are technically grabbing onto the enemy. Pk fire activates on shields and snakes down special can stick people through shields, so I don't see why this is not very possible. The reduced pikmin count makes spamming pikmin throw recklessly dangerous anyways, so I think this may be a fair buff.

Don't Yellow's actually do more shield damage than the others? It would be cool to have a mechanic where Olimar could potentially break shield by throwing Yellow's on them, it'll force people who like to stay in them, out.

 

[robosteven]

If Yellows did a lot of shield damage, that would totally compensate for their lack of direct kill power. They could be a throwing-specific Pikmin, and I'd actually be on board with that.

(not that I'd use them or anything, I don't care for Pikmin throw at all)