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You really know your Zelda games. Props.
I should have elaborated a bit more. Sorry 'bout that.How can you say that WW Link was not derived from said prophecy/fate/destiny? It was tradition on Outset Island to dress the boys coming of age in the Hero's clothing to carry on the old traditions. Heck, his grandma even sent him to Orca, the only swordsman left in their peaceful times to learn from him.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see WW Link in Brawl...I'm just not sure that distinction applies to him
QFT =PWow, the WW Link haters are getting deperate for reasons to deconfirm him.
Link's entrance = WW Link defonfirmed, 0mg lulz!!!
Desperate.
Me too.
i know. its just that i dont know how to make those flash things (i stole this pic from someone). but if u click on that pic, it has the right date.
if youd give some reasons as to y not, id probly respect u more, but nice job on being the first to say that haha
.......you make him like a custom change to TP Link.....
I've yet to play it (but I own it...too busy with MP3, and Brawl stuff now!
)...Edit: My Moveset Wins. Say Goodbye to the thoughts of Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass/cel-shaded/Young Link being a clone.Originally Posted by THE SUPER AWSOME JOHNKNIGHT1!
~Johnknight 1's Wind Waker Link moveset Version 2 (yes, I finally upgraded to original character, seeing as how Brawl is inebitatbly delayed for 2008)
B moveset:
uB: Spin Attack: He takes YL's old spin attack, but puts his own spin on it. Simply put, it does more damage, makes the opponent fly at a 45 degree angle either way, and have muvh better impact. Also, it is a much more hieght-based recovery then YL's, and goes much higher. It is also chargeable. Charge it for anything less than max, and all it does is increase number the number of hits=more damage (btw, this move is like aupgrade of YL's spin attack). But it once charged for two seconds, Wind Waker Link's sword has a yellow/goldish aura (like in the Wind Waker), and he can unleash the hurricane spin. You can move while charging (you hold down the B button, and tap the control stick to mpove; you cannont jump within this time) Then, Wind Waker Link goes around spinning in circles. You either get hit by this once (getting hit at a 45 degree angle, and taking 5% damage), or get hit by it a thousand times. The total damage of this attack equals 30 damage, but that isn't hte worst of it.
Wind Waker Link has super armor when doing this move, and it can't be stopped. He is vulnerable to damage AND ALL PROJECTILES DURING THIS TIME. If you do let's say PK Fire, and it hits Wind Waker Link, it's effect hurts him, but does not effect him. If you time the attack right, you can hit him while he's invincible, but once he turns vulnerable, the after effect (like lets say, burn effect) impacts Wind Waker Link. Anyways, the final smash is a very KOable move if you are in the 80% damage up. However, after this attack Wind Waker Link is dizzy, and completely vulnerable for 2 seconds. Once hurt, he can move freely, or once the time is up. This move takes a long time to charge, is very powerful, but the after effect is very bad, as well as being hurt by porjectiles. Good for small stages, but maybe not very useful, per se.
fB: Skull Hammer: on ground: YL quickly pulls out his hammer, similar to Kirb'y hammer, but better, and he pulls it over his head to the ground. He pulls it out much faster, and the attack can be charged, in a very Icel Climber forward smash kinda way. It does a good amount of damage, great impact (great for edge guarding), but is kind laggy. Not as laggy as Kirby's hammer (that was a pathetic move), but still semi-laggy. Also, it has GREAT RANGE!
in air: Wind Waker Link quickly pullls out the (M.C.) Hammer, and swings it sideways. Good move, great damage, well below avearge impact. It has quite some lag, but it is very bearable. Great for charging at opponents with. Also has great range.
nB: Bow and Arrow: Link pulls out his arrows, and charges it. I know Link has this move, but he instantly shoots straight. For Wind Waker Link, he does the same, but you can charge it (IDK if Link can or not), and you stay implanted. The upside is you can shoot up to a 45 degree angle, up or down. It is somewat laggy, but it could stil lbe a very useful move. Also, the burn effect adds a couple of damage, as well as it causes about average stun.
dB: Dekui Leaf: Yes, the Deku Leaf. That leaf that allows you to fly. It could be a great, original move.
In air: Wind Waker Link begins gliding up for a while, and then descends. He goes up about as much as his second jump, but it takes about 30 frames to do so. (or 1/2 a second) He then gradually begins to descend. Opponents hit by Wind Waker Link take a bit of damage, but this move has great (comboable) stun (not KOable stun). Good for mindgames in recovery, since it can be used. Someat like Peach's parasol, but it doesn't descned as fast, it goes from side to side slower, and it actually ascends, and can be used right before the uB and tether recovery.
On land: Wind Waker Link pulls out the Deku Leaf, and pulls it over his head. Simply put, he pulls it out fast, and it does little damage, but GREAT IMPACT (Ko able if they get hit by the leaf). This move cause a giant air gust of Wind, which travels like a projectile. The move does well below avearge damage, but the impact almost makes up for it. The gust goes until the end of the stage, and goes about as fast as Link's Gale Boomerang (in Brawl, that is=when it's fastest). Also, if the opponent is hit by the leaf, it does above average damage, but the impact can be KOable. Sorta like Luigi's uB or Jigg's dB, definitely. Has below average lag, and can be done repeatidly pretty fast (about as fast as Link's boomerang to arrows).
A moveset:
A, A, A, A, A: Forward down slash, up slash, left to right slash (the last does decent damage). However, WW Link has something original. He then leads with a verticle low down to high up slash, and finishes with a jump slash.
fA: Link does a left to right slash, that goes very fast, and does above average damage, but below average stun.
down tilt: Link does a up to down slash (very) qickly, with well below average lag. It does some damage (not much=below avearge damage), but it does above average stun. Could potentially be a very good combo move.
up titlt: Wind Waker Link does a horizontal slash up, that does great damage, and average impact. Its sorta like Marth's, but ya know, it goes sideways and up, and down. It can be followed up, but can't really be used repeatidly (good) like Fox's up tilt, or Link's. It's more of a move that sets a follow up, and combos. And it is a good move, definitely
forward smash: Wind Waker Link takes two brutal slices sideways (left to right, and then right to left). It hits the opponent at around a 70 or so degree angle (but they only go maybe like 10 feet in the 20's damage when charged for 30 frames). Without charge it does average impact, well below average damage, and some potential lead up. Has little edge guarding potential. However, when charged it has good impact (that can lead to a KOable move), a little below average damage, and little comboabilitiy in low damage %, but much more, later on. A move to keep in mind, but isn't a high prioriety move, per se.
down smash: Wind Waker Link does a stab forward (at a down 45 degree angle), and then turns around and does the same. Does above average damage, little stun, and has pratically no comboability, outside of team play. It has somwat little lag. It is very useful in team play, and can be great for keeping the distance between you and your opponent(s)/spacing.
up smash: Wind Waker Link swordplants up (all on the ground). Does decent (somewat below average damage), but has great impact, enough to hit the opponent down on the ground (like 10 feet away). Can be comboable if led with a proper A air move. Also has below average lag (though not by much). Definitely worth using in the 40 to 60 percentiles.
nAir: Wind Waker Link stabs forward, and thrusts forward. Does a bit below average damage, with some impact, but it is very KOable. A good move that can be led to with a dAir, and eventuall become a combo. Must be timed properly, as it isn't a very long attack.
fAir: Wind Waker Link slices from above his head straight down, and spins, doing a backflip (all in air, and really fast). Has a little bit below average lag, and does great damage. This move is also a spike, and is very powerful and useful. It's basically one of the A button commands from the Wind Waker, and is a very powerful move. It is somewat comboable, though it's more useful as a spike and a one hit damage move. One of the least laggy spikes, it would be a good move all aorund. However, you drop drastically, and need to be careful when doing this over the ledge. You might need Wind Waker Link's tether recovery to recover if you miss (if you hit your opponent, you bounce up a little).
uAir: Wind Waker Link leans back, and quickly swipes his sword (in the upward angle). He swings his sword from one side above him, to another. This move does below avearge damage, but above average stun. When timed properly, you can pull off two when your opponent is stunned, and in low damage percentages (just like Ness' uAir). It very comboable with the same attack, or other air and land attacks (again, just like Ness' uAir). Very comboable, desipte lacking damage and major impact. Definitely a attack that you should use, and it could be a very useful attack.
dAir: Wind Waker Link does the signature swordplant. Basically it is the move Wind Waker Link did to Ganondorf at the end of the Wind Waker. Basically, it's very unlike Link's. Link stabs his opponent with this move. However, unlike Link's, you can't do it over and over again. It causs you to DI down as fast as the fastest fast faller (Wind Waker Link drops at a semi-fast falling rate). It does massive damage. Anyways, you stab your opponent, and if it hits, the sword gets implanted in them, and then Wind Waker Link pulls it out (while on their head/body), and backflips off them. Does massive damage, and knocks them down afterwards (they fall like the just fainted, though they can come right up). This move is basically not comboable at all. Anyways, if your opponent shields, Wind Waker Link stab hits the shield, and falls next to your opponent (if at a angle). If you hit them straight on, Wind Waker Link bounces up a little (just about 3 feet).
High prioriety attack, with a bit abover average lag (still very useable). AFter requiring the time to take out his sword, the move goes really fast, at you can cancel it by jumping, using your Zair, clicking another A air attack, or by tapping up on the control stick (or X or Y, even if you don't have your 2nd jump left). This move, simply put is great, and is a Wind Waker Link signature move. In other words, it is to Wind Waker Link what the knee is to Ganondorf and Captin Falcon. It's the anit-Ganondorf, just like it was in the Wind Waker.
Zair: Wind Waker Link quickly pulls out his grapple, and throws it really fasst. Does minimal damage, and is barely comboable in 1 vs 1.'s (great for 2 vs 2's). Has well above average impact, but below average damage. Also, it has very little lag, and the extension time is very fast. Also has amazing range, and the damage increases with range.
It's also his tether (grab) recovery, and about as long as Zero Suit Samus' whip. Possibly (if not the) best tether recovery, it is very useful, and can be followed with the Deku Leaf, OR the spin attack. This is really a must use attack for recoevery, as it will save you time and time again. You must master this in order to use Wind Waker Link at his full potential. Definitely a good move.
Running A: Wind Waker Link does one of Link's signature moves: The Jumping SLASH! Simply put, it lags well above the average running A attack, but it does a bit above average damage, below average impact, but it is a GREAT COMBO move (especially if you follow with a aerial attack, or the same attack). Great move to use, and is and can be very useful.
Grabs:
Grab: Link pulls out his hooshot, and shoots it out. You can push Z again to cancel it, and have the hookshot instantly begin pulling back (like in all the Zeldas, like the Wind Waker0. Has above average lag if missed, but not by much.
Hits: Link holds them down (hookshot has their torso), and he smacks them with his sword. Does a tad bit above average damage, and has well above average grab time, since it has so many negative consequences (to cancel it out).
forward throw: Wind Waker Link pushes them, and grabs his skull hammer, and hits them (while still holding them with the hookshot, and he always releases them just in time for them to feel the impact and damage. Does major damage, but little impact (shoots them straight down). Great for racking damage, but not for combos.
back throw: Wind Waker Link slashes them while doing a 180 spin, and the slash goes the whole way through. Does a bit below average damage, but has great impact, that could potential be comboalbe, leading to KOs. Great in the higher percentages.
up throw: Wind Waker Link throws his opponent up (somehow, with his little child strength), and then (up) swordplants them up. Does good damage, and decent stun (more then enough to get away from). Great combo grab move in the 30 to 70 percentiles, with great combo possibilites. Definitely worth using.
down throw: WInd Waker Link throws his opponent down, and chucks a bomb at them (I had to use bombs somewhere, and where better=???). This does well below average damage, and about average stun. However, this move is great above the 50 damage percentiles. Because then, your opponent bounces off the ground (and goes off the ground about 4 feet after slamming again the ground, and you can do major damage to them, or combo them. Be warned though: teching can get them out of it, though it is hard to time (teching in this situation, that is). Definitely the perfect damage racker grab. Definitely.
Taunts:
Taunt 1: Wind Waker Link begins jumping up and down with happiness, like he does when he defeats a boss. A bit longer then the average taunt.
Taunt 2: Wind Waker Link Drinks his Chu Chu Juice, or watever. Maybe Lon Lon Ranch Milk for the heck of keeping YLink's old taunt from Melee. In other words, a recration (though hopefully it's shorter). VERYYYY LOOONNNNGGG (hopefully it's much shorter).
Taunt 3: Wind Waker Link enters a funny pose, just like he does when he first recieves the Master Sword. Sorta like Link's SSB64 taunt. Shorter then the average taunt, by somewat of a good extent.
Final Smash: Wind Waker Link pulls out the Wind Waker, and plays the Ballad of Gales. Suddenly, the King of Red Lions appears out of nowhere, and Link hops on it, and the sail plops open. Then a giant cyclone comes, and lifts Wind Waker Link and the King of Red Lions up. Then, you can freely fly, and bump enemies, as the wind sucks them in towards you. Running into them does massive damage (depending on the speed), and if they're sucked in at the end of this final smash, they get throw up with the cyclone. IF the opponent is above 50% damage then, they inedbitably die. It is hard to avoid this move, but it is still possible. I had to use something to fully copy the game, and I think this works great!
Most of that refers to his potential B attacks. I am fully aware that Young Link could easily have totally unique and awesome B attacks. Attempting to argue the contrary would be crazy and stupid, because it is obviously true. A-moves are what I am more worried about, because A-moves are by far the more important aspect of how a character performs in combat. There are only so many things you can do with a sword before it starts to get stale, and the list of sword-wielders is getting pretty long. I'm sure it's still possible to give him a distinctive moveset--you can give pretty much anything a reasonably distinctive moveset if you try hard enough--but I feel as though his potential is intrinsically lessened somewhat compared to someone with a completely unheard of method of offense.
I'm about 3/4 of the way through and I kind of have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, the dungeons all seem really short and tiny, which takes some depth out of the game compared to, say, Wind Waker. But on the other hand, touch controls make every item ten times more awesomer (except the boomerang, which is a hundred times more awesomer).
You'll like it.
So from what I gather, you're worried about young Link lacking interesting A moves and a unique style as compared to his counterpart as well as other swordsmen?
Okay, first of all, even if it's a little off-topic, I've gotta defend my main here. Link's projectiles are plenty fast enough for the jobs they are designed for (except the bow, which is kinda useless in a serious duel). I get the impression that you really don't play Adult Link much (given how rarely I play as Young Link and how much I suck when I do, I figure it's safe to assume that your relationship with Adult Link is similar). And I also get the impression that Young Link tends to use his boomerang (and maybe bow) as part of his close-range combo game (that's what the ridiculously-angled boomerang suggests, anyway). Adult Link does not work like that. See, you talk about mindgames like they are nothing. But let me tell you something about Link. The first thing you notice when playing Link is that even though his attacks are decent, most of them have a lot of lag afterwards. That means if you are predictable, you die. If the enemy controls the stage, you will not live long.
Actually, I DID miss your moveset...it wasn't in the list with the others (most of which tended to try to reinvent Link's and Marth's moves rather than make entirely new ones), and I must have glazed over the line the link was in. I went back to look at it, and admittedly, it is indeed pretty awesome. I'm still opposed to not giving Young Link all-new specials though. (Except for maybe the up-B, because, I mean, Hurricane Spin. Come on.) However, looking at the moveset, it seems to focus on exaggerated, high-knockback moves rather than the low-knockback combo slashes the current Young Link has, which is kind of the opposite of what I thought you were going for.
Swords are diverse in the real world because you can do a lot more with them than you can with most other weapon types. However, in Smash, they become more of a fixed element. A solid, linear piece of iron which is always there and always has to be accounted for. Conversely, the variety in unarmed combat is astronomical. You couldn't give Kirby and Donkey Kong clone movesets if you tried, because their builds are just so different. The idea of wolf-riding-Midna as a non-humanoid-shaped character really appeals to me partially for this reason. She's inherently unique and interesting before you even start trying to get creative, and once you do, things can only get better. It's the reason I tend to find the Pokemon Trainer more interesting than Ike, and it's the reason I tend to find Midna more appealing than Young Link.
Heh. What can I say? I really like thinking and writing. Probably 'cause I'm really bad at everything else.
The stun from a boomerang hit gives you enough time to pull out the bomb, then the explosion buys you time to knock the enemy away, and then hey, it's boomerang time again! You always have to think in the long-term with Link, because he doesn't have too many direct combos for you to push (aside from maybe a few aerial combos which require that the enemy already has some damage on them). He does tend to have trouble with speedsters though, especially fastfallers. Hopefully those kinds of characters will be less broken in general when Brawl comes around...
It's not that you specifically mentioned high knockback so much as it seems implicit in the types of moves you are suggesting. I mean, if Young Link is going to do a super-long-range jump slash, having it NOT have a ton of knockback would almost look ridiculous.
To be perfectly honest, part of me knows that swords have more potential than I give them credit for. I've been an avid Lyn supporter in the past, after all, and I could see a fencer-type character working. I think that seeing Marth in Melee just totally disillusioned me with the future of swordsmanship in Smash. He had ONE other sword-wielder to compete with, and yet every single move he has is the same d*mn vertical crescent slash over and over. Part of me just can't help but think "if that's the best they come up with for the second swordsman, who knows how bad the FIFTH one is going to be". And it makes me worry especially about Fire Emblem in particular, because most of the lords are just the same basic guy over and over again with the exception of the FE7 (and maybe 8) lords, which nobody seems to consider popular enough. It's looking like they did a somewhat better job with Ike, at least.
