Official Standard Custom Moveset Project Initial Release

[NairWizard]

@ Amazing Ampharos

Like @san., I have been using a Mii Gunner that is min weight and exactly halfway between midheight and minheight (so like 1/4 height). This has enough ground speed to be competitive and outranges the likes of Diddy on some normals. san has more experience with Gunner than I do at this point, but I believe that this is optimal and should be added as a Gunner size.

 

[Dabuz]

@ Dabuz Thanks for the Rosalina input; any thoughts on Olimar customs?

EDIT: I made a typo and this won't tag him properly; that's really annoying...

@ Myran Would know a lot more than me what customs Oli should use. I personally just use what I posted on reddit (which was quoted)

 

[Sixfortyfive]

@ Amazing Ampharos

Like @san., I have been using a Mii Gunner that is min weight and exactly halfway between midheight and minheight (so like 1/4 height). This has enough ground speed to be competitive and outranges the likes of Diddy on some normals. san has more experience with Gunner than I do at this point, but I believe that this is optimal and should be added as a Gunner size.

Actually, this reminds me of something I wanted to talk about regarding Mii sizes.

On the 3DS Mii Maker, height and weight can each range from 0 to 53, with the default being set at 26.
On the Wii U Mii Maker, height and weight can each range from 0 to 127, with the default being (I think) set at 63 or 64.

I assume that the min, max, and default sizes from both consoles are equal (or pretty much as close to equal as possible), but I never bothered to check. Do you think it matters that the two systems have a different number of possible values for these settings or not?

More to the point, I find it difficult to actually name Miis that use specific size parameters. Originally, I planned to use TNSUD-HHWW as a naming convention:

- T = type (B for brawler, etc.)
- NSUD = neutral, side, up, down specials
- HH = height (00 to 53, corresponding to 3DS Mii Maker values)
- WW = weight (same)

So, "B1111-2626" would be the name for a default Mii Brawler, for example.

However, Smash 3DS won't allow you to save a Mii Fighter with more than 5 numbers in its name. That makes it difficult to clearly label specific size parameters, so I'm wondering if there's even a good way to clearly convey sizes that get really particular.

Right now I'm just using TNSUD-HW, where height and weight values are just S (minimum), M (default), or L (maximum).

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I've been using the following convention:

Normal: Mii is default height and weight
Small: Mii is min height and weight
Big: Mii is max height and weight
Wide: Mii is min height, max weight
Thin: Mii is max height, min weight
Custom: Mii is "anything else"

Is the Mii that is 1/4 slider height min weight the only custom Mii that people would want to use anyway? I was talking to john-numbers about Mii sizes, and he suggests sharing unusual sizes via QR codes which I thought was a really good idea and fixes a lot of my concerns on the topic (I was worried significantly about this point; we don't want half the set-ups at EVO to have a one tick too short Mii Gunner because it was too hard to precisely make the height setting). If we want that particular height for Miis, I can toy with the slider and find the absolute minimum in that domain that hits platforms on various EVO legal stages (BF and Lylat mostly) with the various Miis and try to optimize that. Getting the height right down to the tick is going to be a very big deal, and if it's not symmetric between the Wii U and the 3ds, that's an obnoxious situation...

 

[Sixfortyfive]

QR codes allow for reliable consistency, but I'm still stuck on this name issue. I'm probably just being anal about it, but I'm reluctant to use anything that can't be easily conveyed to the user, which is why I'm just sticking with min/medium/max for now.

 

[MrEh]

After great consideration, I've decided that MrEh makes an excellent point and that 1211 and 1311 should be movesets included for Bowser. Once I decided to retain these two sets, my next logical leap was to think about expanding the sets available for less enlightened Bowsers. I'm thinking 1231, 3211, and 1313 will finish a few iterative options. For #10, maybe 1312? We all know none of these sets are great as they are not 1211 or 1311, but we are aiming for stuff to make everyone as happy as is possible.

If we're going for a super broadened group of sets, these will probably appeal to everyone.

I've never seen anyone use Slip Bomb, but I know some people like the wind one for some godforsaken reason. So I kept that in mind. Should be easy enough to appeal to every Timmy and Johnny out there.



Optimal (The best sets. Most players will run these.)
1311
1211

Suboptimal (These sets are still commonly seen.)
3311
3211

Whatever (For the pot monsters. These can be whatever you want honestly.)
1231
1331
3321
3233
3333
2223

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Working on Mario's sets in this topic:

http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-mario.380346/


EDIT:

@ Amazing Ampharos

A more methodical approach to this would be to find the one special that has a widely agreed upon best in slot. With the three remaining slots, find the inferior special and remove it. There will be 8 remaining combinations and they should take up slots 1 to 8. For most characters these guidelines are easy to establish because there is a clear cut best in slot and inferior options that don't really require much discussion or experimentation to establish. No further discussion is required because the remaining combinations are all accessible. Most discussion at this point is also theory with no real experience. This also works if a character has two best in slots, and the remaining two slots has a toss up between two moves and three moves (requires 6 combinations). Very few characters are more complex than this, and only those require more thorough investigation.

Mario for example:
3 Fire Orb inferior
1 Cape inferior
2 Super Jump inferior (this one is not unanimously agreed upon yet AFAIK, but it is the inferior option but I'm not going to get into it)
3 High-Pressure F.L.U.D.D. best in slot

Your 8 combinations are:
1213
1233
1313
1333
2213
2233
2313
2333

Also I highly recommend listing the combinations in lexicographical order because it is easier to read. If so desired, just denote the most popular with an asterisk or something.

Going from the list right now, there are already some characters with unanimous best in slots, and the remaining three moves only vary between two options. Expanding them to 8 combinations will complete the character for good. Some characters have outlier combinations (e.g. every set uses special move 1 except one set uses special move 3) which allow them to fall into only 8 combinations when removed.

While this is fine and dandy and all, it doesn't take one thing into consideration:

A set's synergy, flow, and actual applications.

In comparison with Mario's current list of sets in the OP, the new sets you provided are as follows: 1213, 1233, 2213, and 2233. Let's go over each of these now.


1213 and 2213 are outclassed by 2223, because you are losing Super Jump in favor for SJP. This prevents Mario from going deep when trying to edgeguard with Shocking Cape, as well as hindering his overall recovery since Shocking Cape doesn't stall like Gust Cape does.

1233 and 2233 greatly hinder Mario's ability to recover, as well. Not only is he not able to go deep with Shocking Cape, but now he has a much bigger problem trying to recover, because he now has both Shocking Cape and EJP to worry about. Granted, this does raise his KO potential by a substantial amount, but it creates a crippling weakness that can easily be exploited. These sets are outclassed by sets 1333 and 2333.


While your process would do well in streamlining the creation of making sets, something that is streamlined doesn't always yield the most effective results.

For example, the comparison of a fast food burger in contrast to a homemade/restaurant quality one. Which would you prefer?

Also, while an option can be the most effective overall (HP FLUDD), that doesn't necessarily mean that other options can't be useful. Especially in certain matchups. Scalding FLUDD, while normally inferior to HP FLUDD, is very effective for opponents that Mario can't normally gimp, such as Peach. This should also be taken into consideration.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I wouldn't call the Air Slash customs sidegrades, quite, since each one leans too heavily in the balance for Shulk's recovery which is already a bit finicky. Mighty Air Slash would be really awesome if it didn't forgo the coverage on the second hit which can keep you safe, but also because the initial slash doesn't reliable combo into the second hit. Still worth a slot if we're expanding, 1133 probably. Same with 1123, though I can't see as much use for it since trying to kill horizontally with Air Slash just seems strange to me. (I'd love to be proved wrong, though.) Back Slash Leap I haven't played with much.

Advancing Air Slash trades vertical recovery for better horizontal recovery and a little more damage, plus I believe the second slash sweetspots the edge a little easier. I actually prefer default Air Slash myself, but I just think the options are solid enough that they should be there for those who want them. As for Back Slash Leap I just like that it comes out faster and can leap through lower platforms for those unexpected hits.

 

[Raijinken]

Advancing Air Slash trades vertical recovery for better horizontal recovery and a little more damage, plus I believe the second slash sweetspots the edge a little easier. I actually prefer default Air Slash myself, but I just think the options are solid enough that they should be there for those who want them. As for Back Slash Leap I just like that it comes out faster and can leap through lower platforms for those unexpected hits.

I've never cared much for any Back Slash variant, but that's largely because it's such an exceedingly situational move to begin with. A friend of mine uses the quick one for decent surprise attacks, and I suppose it's marginally more likely to hit at all due to speed, but I personally don't see much reason to run it over default.

As for Air Slash, I'm inclined to run default. You get plenty of horizontal control with Jump mode on, so unless you get caught with Jump unavailable, I don't think the benefits of Advancing Air Slash are necessary. Could be worth a shot, though, I haven't tried it much lately.

 

[Splash Damage]

Grounding Blow is definitely my favorite custom move, it just gives Little Mac combo potential he wouldn't have otherwise. But I still don't think it should be too prevalent in the sets. Stages like Battlefield, Town & City, Lylat, and Halberd make Grounding Blow unusable on stage most of the time.

In my experience, having Grounding Blow on these stages give it a different purpose, which is having a quick attack that can reach platform campers and potentially set them up for a big punish. Sure it will require quite a bit of baiting, but any ability to deal with platforms would be a huge niche for Mac(Example:Was facing a Shiek at Apex on Smashville who stayed on the platforms and threw needles the whole match. Can't say I blame him, though.). The other options, Jolt Haymaker and Guard Breaker both definately have a huge amount of MU effectiveness, though, which does make them deserve their prevalence I will say.

 

[Myran]

I'm not really to big on Olimar's custom because they have added effects that I'm not a fan of. As for certain custom setups you could go Hardy Pikmin Pluck and Sticky Pikmin Throw to make it harder to kill/remove them. Other than that I haven't put to much time into thinking of strong custom sets for him.

 

[Splash Damage]

As for Air Slash, I'm inclined to run default. You get plenty of horizontal control with Jump mode on, so unless you get caught with Jump unavailable, I don't think the benefits of Advancing Air Slash are necessary. Could be worth a shot, though, I haven't tried it much lately.

In my opinion, the range of the default Air Slash's base hit is a huge benefit, as it gives Shulk a reliable OoS option. I haven't done much testing with AAS, but IMO, the combination of huge recovery with Jump mode and a great bait/punish OoS with smash mode, Nuetral Air Slash seems to be his best option. AAS does deserve at least some exposure, however.

 

[popsofctown]

If we're going for a super broadened group of sets, these will probably appeal to everyone.

I've never seen anyone use Slip Bomb, but I know some people like the wind one for some godforsaken reason. So I kept that in mind. Should be easy enough to appeal to every Timmy and Johnny out there.



Optimal (The best sets. Most players will run these.)
1311
1211

Suboptimal (These sets are still commonly seen.)
3311
3211

Whatever (For the pot monsters. These can be whatever you want honestly.)
1231
1331
3321
3233
3333
2223

Flying Fortress is much more terrible than Sliding Fortress because Sliding Fortress retains some of the OoS properties. It shouldn't be in any sets. Unpopular Bombs and unpopular Breaths are less glaringly incorrect to use.

 

[MrEh]

Flying Fortress is much more terrible than Sliding Fortress because Sliding Fortress retains some of the OoS properties. It shouldn't be in any sets. Unpopular Bombs and unpopular Breaths are less glaringly incorrect to use.

Quite aware.

http://smashboards.com/threads/offi...-initial-release.381395/page-25#post-18600248


Also, those sets are for pot monsters.

 

[Octagon]

I like how one of Duck Hunts customs gives a hitbox on his recovery, it helps a lot in spike situations

 

[Jigglymaster]

Mii Brawler:

As per the frequent and wise suggestion of Jigglymaster, 2122 is going to be added for sure. I'm unsure of how to handle Piston Punch; it's clearly sub-optimal except for abusing a really silly gimmick that is very rarely of real merit. Should it be included, or should we save ourselves some serious stress and just drop this move (not banned just... not included)?

Yeah, like I've said before, Helicopter Kick is generally overall more balanced and better than Piston Punch. However, Piston Punch is better in some Matchups due to the One Inch Punch that makes matcups like Brawler vs Jiggs 100-0 in Mii Brawler's favor. Other reasons also being that Piston Punch is better in general on Halberd where it can abuse the low ceiling.

Basically what I'm saying is Piston Punch is worse but acts as a hard counter to some characters because of it's Instant KO glitch. I honestly don't know why you'd want to use it other than that. I dunno about it being banned, but it shouldn't really be encouraged either.

Honestly, Piston Punch is the reason why most people dislike the Mii Brawler, if Helicopter Kick is shown more to others they'll begin to respect him more as a character where he's still just as viable if not more without the use of a gimmick.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

If its a legitimate good option for certain stages/characters, it should be a choice.

Roy could do this in Melee with his Up B. Technically, it was even more abusable than Piston Punch is in this regard: it was stronger, didn't have to be done at strict percents or certain parts of the stage. Both are incredibly hard to land. Nobody complains about Roy's.

 

[TheASDF]

Also, I know that there's one Bowser Jr. main near my region that swears by Air Cannon and thinks it's a great custom. Can't elaborate much myself but it does seem like it should have as much representation as Piercing Cannon, if not more. Certainly from Gust Cape and Kong Cyclone we know how great windboxes are, though obviously this doesn't have quite the same level of utility.

 

[Jigglymaster]

If its a legitimate good option for certain stages/characters, it should be a choice.

Roy could do this in Melee with his Up B. Technically, it was even more abusable than Piston Punch is in this regard: it was stronger, didn't have to be done at strict percents or certain parts of the stage. Both are incredibly hard to land. Nobody complains about Roy's.

Piston Punch's OIP can be combo'd from a d-throw until like 50%. Against Jiggs she dies anywhere to it, doesn't even have to be on a platform. It's also something you can generally pull off 80% of the time, its not hard at all.

 

[warriorman222]

Piston Punch's OIP can be combo'd from a d-throw until like 50%. Against Jiggs she dies anywhere to it, doesn't even have to be on a platform. It's also something you can generally pull off 80% of the time, its not hard at all.

True. But compare a lot of similar combos in Melee and Sm4sh: Nobody at all complains about the guaranteed uthrow-uair Fox has, yet people are fatalistic well beyond the point of ridicule about Diddy's %tighter, Diable dthrow-uair.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

You see, that's fair enough. Again I'm not saying that i necessarily agree with a ban, I'm just saying that I'm not getting the knee jerk reaction towards the idea of one.

And to the guy mentioning T Hawk and Dhalsim, I wouldn't really know cause I come more from a BB//Marvel background. I only know the concepts, not matchups,but that's just bad design if it's as bad as you say.

You know what the best part is? They nerfed T.Hawk in the last patch. He's already one of the bottom 5 characters in the game, and they take away his best long-range jump-in and nerf his approach tool. In return, he gets a red focus combo that is applicable once in approximately... um... never.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Also, I know that there's one Bowser Jr. main near my region that swears by Air Cannon and thinks it's a great custom. Can't elaborate much myself but it does seem like it should have as much representation as Piercing Cannon, if not more. Certainly from Gust Cape and Kong Cyclone we know how great windboxes are, though obviously this doesn't have quite the same level of utility.

In particular, I don't think any of Bowser Jr's are great unfortunately. All of them are too slow to really be all that effective. Each of them have potential applications, but all are quite limited as special moves in general because of high startup and endlag.

Honestly, I think that Air Cannon is the worst, because unlike other moves with windboxes, Air Cannon lacks an actual hitbox that deals damage/stuns the opponent. Granted, some moves with windboxes that lack actual hitboxes do exist (Mario's FLUDD), but these moves are substantially faster than Bowser Jr's Air Cannon. Additionally, windboxes can be shielded in Smash 4, which further limits his Air Cannon's use.

Of the three, honestly default is the best imo simply due to dealing more damage/knockback, and even then it's not all that great. Of course, all of this is me speaking about 1vs1, and not doubles. They could be better in that environment, though I'm not sure by how much.

EDIT:

You know what the best part is? They nerfed T.Hawk in the last patch. He's already one of the bottom 5 characters in the game, and they take away his best long-range jump-in and nerf his approach tool. In return, he gets a red focus combo that is applicable once in approximately... um... never.

As a T. Hawk main who hasn't played in awhile...this news saddens me.

 

[Octagon]

True. But compare a lot of similar combos in Melee and Sm4sh: Nobody at all complains about the guaranteed uthrow-uair Fox has, yet people are fatalistic well beyond the point of ridicule about Diddy's %tighter, Diable dthrow-uair.

Don't worry man...just give it time...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If its a legitimate good option for certain stages/characters, it should be a choice.

Roy could do this in Melee with his Up B. Technically, it was even more abusable than Piston Punch is in this regard: it was stronger, didn't have to be done at strict percents or certain parts of the stage. Both are incredibly hard to land. Nobody complains about Roy's.

It's because he's our boy

True. But compare a lot of similar combos in Melee and Sm4sh: Nobody at all complains about the guaranteed uthrow-uair Fox has, yet people are fatalistic well beyond the point of ridicule about Diddy's %tighter, Diable dthrow-uair.

That's because Melee fanboys refuses to know that there are Melee-ish combos in SM4SH

Flying Fortress is much more terrible than Sliding Fortress because Sliding Fortress retains some of the OoS properties. It shouldn't be in any sets.

It has amazing vertical recovery potential. Probably in the Top 10 bests of the game. (all custom included)

 

[Octagon]

It has amazing vertical recovery potential. Probably in the Top 10 bests of the game. (all custom included)

But the horizontal recovery is terrible! Thats why i just go with the default recovery for Bowser

 

[warriorman222]

Don't worry man...just give it time...

That's because Melee fanboys refuses to know that there are Melee-ish combos in SM4SH (all custom included)

Thanks... But still, it's ridiculous the amount of complaining that happens when people get exactly what they've wanted for almost 15 years: Meleelike stuff. And some combos are the way to star-

Nope! let's just complain the most about the things we wanted, rather than the things we didn't(no specifics)!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

But the horizontal recovery is terrible! Thats why i just go with the default recovery for Bowser

Point taken, but X32X is an amazing set for Bowser, recovery-wise.

 

[Octagon]

Point taken, but X32X is an amazing set for Bowser, recovery-wise.

I agree, I run 2311

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Point taken, but X32X is an amazing set for Bowser, recovery-wise.

Speaking of which, @ Amazing Ampharos , would you consider such a set for Bowser in your project?

Also, my browser nearly crashed wehn looking at the OP, mind putting the character sets in a collapse tab? (all-in-one or individual tabs for each character, doesn't matter how)

 

[Jigglymaster]

True. But compare a lot of similar combos in Melee and Sm4sh: Nobody at all complains about the guaranteed uthrow-uair Fox has, yet people are fatalistic well beyond the point of ridicule about Diddy's %tighter, Diable dthrow-uair.

I understand your point, and I see it mostly because in that game everybody has those types of combos. Fox has his u-throw u-air, Jiggs has u-throw rest. Characters have chain throws, combos, ect. Tho, in Smash 4 its a lot fewer characters who have these types of combos. If everybody had combos like this it'd be better. Thats why nobody complains in Melee.

I'm still saying you honestly aren't losing anything though by choosing HK over PP, its practically the same move but better and not reliant on a insta kill gimmik. I'm pretty sure that wasn't Roy's main goal to win matches, it is for PP Brawler.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Let's NOT be toxic, like, at all. Melee Charge Shot is a custom move. Otherwise, I don't think we need to be invoking Melee here, and we certainly don't need to be talking down on Melee players for no good reason. We have a job to do here, refining these custom moves and growing to understand them. Let's stick to the high road of doing the best job on that we can.

Nothing is set in stone on the sets so any set might be considered. Something like 1321 Bowser is certainly possible for a maxed out recovery build, as dubious as it is in terms of general gameplay. It will require carefully looking at everything Bowser has as options and trying to find whatever will make the most people happy. Bowser is interesting in that I feel all of the current strongest Bowser mains will be completely satisfied by 1211, 1311, 3211, and 3311 so he has room for more... experimental sets.

Do large volumes of text crash your browser? I have sympathy for browser-unfriendly pages (I've used a very weak computer on SB before), but usually it's just videos and those stupid animated .gifs that gave me a hard time. If I had to guess, the video I embedded is probably a bigger problem, but I don't want to kill its viability.

Piston Punch is something we'll be thinking about carefully. I feel secure saying that the project has no position one way or another whether Piston Punch should be tournament legal; the only question is whether this non-position warrants including Piston Punch sets or not and at this time I don't know. The fact that it's clearly mostly sub-optimal to Hurricane Kick anyway is a mercy on us all for sure and lowers the stakes of this debate greatly.

 

[popsofctown]

I understand Bowser has the free space for extra sets, but no more than one flying fortress set should be necessary. It is incredibly difficult to die because the default didn't give you enough vertical.

 

[Caryslan]

I think this set is viable for Ike.

2332

Personally, I think Undying Blade is a very good option for Ike since it allows him to power his way though projictles and other attacks. You do lose range and some of the mobility, but for Projectile characters like Duck Hunt Dog, Mega Man, and others, it could be very useful to have that super armor. Also, if used properly, the super armor would also let Ike trade hits or take more risks with his approach.

It is easier to block if someone sees it coming, but I think this set benefits Ike in certain matchups.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

CQC does a better job of taking care of projectiles. It beats out or clanks with almost every projectile. A non-charged CQC clanks with a Super Missile. It takes something like a fully charged Charge Shot or Aura Sphere for a non-charged CQC to be beaten. In which case a charged one clanks with it again.

On the Ike boards, the only MU we've really come up with where Unyielding Blade may be good is the Luigi one. The sheer amount of super armour (during the whole charge time if on the ground until it reaches max + during lunge) hurts Luigi's ability to try to combo us a lot. Otherwise, CQC is the better custom and lets us keep more recovery distance.

Although funny enough, there's now some talk of Smash Counter being decent, if only for the minimum guaranteed %. Its something like 15% min IIRC + that heavy knockback. May be more useful than the other ones against Bowser and Ganondorf. I'm personally doubtful, but I've seen it suggested there.

Basically, Ike wants to use every possible combination of all of his specials!

 

[Raijinken]

CQC does a better job of taking care of projectiles. It beats out or clanks with almost every projectile. A non-charged CQC clanks with a Super Missile. It takes something like a fully charged Charge Shot or Aura Sphere for a non-charged CQC to be beaten. In which case a charged one clanks with it again.

On the Ike boards, the only MU we've really come up with where Unyielding Blade may be good is the Luigi one. The sheer amount of super armour (during the whole charge time if on the ground until it reaches max + during lunge) hurts Luigi's ability to try to combo us a lot. Otherwise, CQC is the better custom and lets us keep more recovery distance.

Although funny enough, there's now some talk of Smash Counter being decent, if only for the minimum guaranteed %. Its something like 15% min IIRC + that heavy knockback. May be more useful than the other ones against Bowser and Ganondorf. I'm personally doubtful, but I've seen it suggested there.

Basically, Ike wants to use every possible combination of all of his specials!

Personally, I love Smash Counter, if only because all counters are unlikely and it's strong when landed.

Aside from Smash Counter (I like all of his counters, really), I run 32XX. Tempest has niche uses but hasn't really proven effective in my friend group, CQC is amazing, the Aethers are situational (though I do generally run Drive), and Counters are preference. The only major things I think about Ike are that his default sideB is the only one that must be replaced, and even that probably has some niche uses.

 

[Quickhero]

Marth really needs to have Crescent Slash on more than just 1121, it's such a viable kill and combo method that it really deserves more than just one set. The recovery isn't as bad as thought initially and having 3121 and 3123 fixes these issues enough to be just an amazing move overall.

In my opinion, 3133 is the most niche out of the current options, because Marth already has a lot of mobility with 3131 and Counter is slightly stronger and Counter works slightly better when going deep edgeguarding as it hits the character even further off the edge if you can get it off. For the second option to replace, while I would prefer 1113 to go since I currently see not much reason to run it, I personally haven't tried it myself and it could very well be a very beneficial option against certain match-ups/stages, so I'll say 1121 should be taken off at the moment because Dashing Assault not only provides more stage control and more mix-up opportunities with the mobility, it also provides even more (horizontal) and makes Marth (with Crescent Slash) much harder to edgeguard than usual. I think this is far more useful than the shieldbreaking power that is Shieldbreaker, when many of times you can just use a shield as an opportunity to F-Throw to Crescent Slash anyways.

Of course, that's not to say 3133 and 1121 aren't viable at all, just simply much more niche and if someone wants to use them, they only need to bring their own 3DS and install it in.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Personally, I love Smash Counter, if only because all counters are unlikely and it's strong when landed.

Aside from Smash Counter (I like all of his counters, really), I run 32XX. Tempest has niche uses but hasn't really proven effective in my friend group, CQC is amazing, the Aethers are situational (though I do generally run Drive), and Counters are preference. The only major things I think about Ike are that his default sideB is the only one that must be replaced, and even that probably has some niche uses.

Tempest is both a recovery aid and the best edgeguarding Eruption option. Its the only Eruption version that isn' niche. Recovery boosts are always welcomed in any MU. Fire explosions aren't always needed/useful.

Default Side B is technically the best one for recovery. CQC loses its momentum when it ends, basically slowing down Ike until he rebuilds the momentum manually. Default doesn't do that + has the change of being able to act again if he swings during recovery. IIRC default has less recovery time on a whiff than CQC ever does, but only slightly.

 

[adom4]

Tempest is both a recovery aid and the best edgeguarding Eruption option. Its the only Eruption version that isn' niche. Recovery boosts are always welcomed in any MU. Fire explosions aren't always needed/useful.

Default Side B is technically the best one for recovery. CQC loses its momentum when it ends, basically slowing down Ike until he rebuilds the momentum manually. Default doesn't do that + has the change of being able to act again if he swings during recovery. IIRC default has less recovery time on a whiff than CQC ever does, but only slightly.

What's so good about close combat?
I know aether Drive is good but i mostly hear about close combat being amazing.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

For one, Close Combat has the ability to clank with projectiles, which allows Ike to use it as an approaching tool with less worry about being punished by a weak projectile. It also deals a fair amount of damage and sends opponents above him, which is better for followup potential.

iirc anyways

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I'm posting in a lot of the character boards, spreading the mission back out to the masses. I've so far posted in them alphabetically Bowser through Marth other than Captain Falcon and Dark Pit since I honestly didn't know what to say in those two and wonder if handling Dark Pit on the Pit board might be the way. I also got tagged in the Yoshi forum while I was working on it so I randomly got him too (I'm also in communication with the Rosalina board since, well, I main Rosalina). I'm about to eat dinner and then go play smash so I don't think I have time to talk to the boards Mega Man through Zero Suit Samus tonight, but if any of you guys main those characters it would definitely help out a lot to bring some talk about filling out 10 custom slots to those boards.