Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Donkey Kong

[Jmex]

Entered a tournament yesterday which allowed customs. Got 9th out of 60 ppl. Definitely feel like i can do better and plan to for all future tournaments with customs on. I was experimenting with combinations of custom moves throughout the entire event. But that cyclone up b. Damn. It's just so damn good.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Entered a tournament yesterday which allowed customs. Got 9th out of 60 ppl. Definitely feel like i can do better and plan to for all future tournaments with customs on. I was experimenting with combinations of custom moves throughout the entire event. But that cyclone up b. Damn. It's just so damn good.

IMHO people are sleeping on chopper kong, holy **** I tried it for first time today and the potential is so high even ignoring the cargo throw aspect (that aspect being that even a failed stage spike cargo throw and/or failed footstool has a much Lower probability of suicide due to choppers vertical capabilities. I also find that chopper would be VERY useful against those with long vertical recovery and use it often, because Dk can go down much further to disrupt their capability to return.

 

[Big O]

IMHO people are sleeping on chopper kong, holy **** I tried it for first time today and the potential is so high even ignoring the cargo throw aspect (that aspect being that even a failed stage spike cargo throw and/or failed footstool has a much Lower probability of suicide due to choppers vertical capabilities. I also find that chopper would be VERY useful against those with long vertical recovery and use it often, because Dk can go down much further to disrupt their capability to return.

Honestly I can't even begin to imagine a MU/stage/situation where you would want to give up Kong Cyclone or even Spinning Kong for Chopper Kong. I know you are pretty excited about our recent stage spiking discoveries, but why do you need Chopper Kong at all to exploit them? You can recover from them without Chopper Kong if you do it right. Even if you couldn't, basing your choice of Up B on what makes it easier/a little safe to do it is silly, especially since they can tech it and possibly just gimp you.

You can already go pretty deep vertically offstage with the other two Up B's and the extra slight vertical leeway you have with Chopper Kong just isn't very impressive, especially if you aren't directly below the ledge. You are giving up way too much to get like a Mario Up B w/o a htbox...

 

[DaRkJaWs]

I've known about the stage spiking since the beginning when someone posted a video of doing it (was probably Shawn) with his throw but decided it was too hard for me to even try, and since i haven't played much of sm4sh since it's come out I focused on perfecting some of my other moves in the spare time I do play. Anyway all it took was 30 minutes in practice to get it down.

As far as the cargo throw spikes go, you
are right that the other up+b's work just fine, but with chopper kong you can do it anytime instead of simply waiting for the right percentages so one could get a guaranteed kill with or without the footstool. The forward cargo throw can be used without fear of also dying, with chopper. Anyway now thinking about it more i still think it's the best option vs some mu's. You just have to play Dk somewhat differently. Edgeguarding is done entirely in the air right below the base instead of strictly horizontally, the latter of which doesn't work vs good Mario's or others that have good to great vertical recoveries. Now Dk can use his spikes and kick a little more without fear of dying if he is a little too low.

Suffice to say, I want to face you and Shawn with customs so I can test it out.

 

[DKwill]

Hey all! I was just wondering what would be the best way of voting on and approving a new custom DK moveset that I've been utilizing in tournaments. I admit I haven't stayed up to date on these forums, but that's why I've finally come now to state my opinion.

I am under the impression that 3231 is an extremely viable set for DK. Jumping headbutt in general is a great recovery mixup and I'd like to see more of it in general within the available sets. Most importantly, storm punch is easily charged with the added mobility of escaping to platforms with cyclone kong.

The reason I'd like to include it is because, at least during the current customs meta in NY/NJ, it is a top pick in terms of tournament viability. I recently placed 2nd to Dabuz at Smash Attack 4 at Next Level in Brooklyn, NY. Video footage can be found shortly on teamSp00ky's YouTube page and also in his stream archive on twitch.

I will continue to experiment with different load outs but I believe the two most viable options are 3231 vs floaty characters and those with susceptible recoveries and 1231 vs characters where the strength/super armor of giant punch is a necessary trump card.

Thanks for your consideration and I will take any questions on my stance as well.

 

[PhantomTriforce]

I just want to confirm, does jumping headbutt grab onto the ledge if used as a recovery?

Also about down b's, can hand slap hit behind you whereas hot slap can't? If this is the case, then hand slap is definitely better.

 

[Flamecircle]

Hey all! I was just wondering what would be the best way of voting on and approving a new custom DK moveset that I've been utilizing in tournaments. I admit I haven't stayed up to date on these forums, but that's why I've finally come now to state my opinion.

I am under the impression that 3231 is an extremely viable set for DK. Jumping headbutt in general is a great recovery mixup and I'd like to see more of it in general within the available sets. Most importantly, storm punch is easily charged with the added mobility of escaping to platforms with cyclone kong.

The reason I'd like to include it is because, at least during the current customs meta in NY/NJ, it is a top pick in terms of tournament viability. I recently placed 2nd to Dabuz at Smash Attack 4 at Next Level in Brooklyn, NY. Video footage can be found shortly on teamSp00ky's YouTube page and also in his stream archive on twitch.

I will continue to experiment with different load outs but I believe the two most viable options are 3231 vs floaty characters and those with susceptible recoveries and 1231 vs characters where the strength/super armor of giant punch is a necessary trump card.

Thanks for your consideration and I will take any questions on my stance as well.

Considering you're probably the premiere DK, your opinion should definitely have weight.

Here's the current ones:
1131
1133
1231
1331
2131
3131

I don't see why 3231 couldn't be added without too much complaints.

I'd even say the set with neutral 2 could be trimmed, because the move feels like such a half measure that it doesn't seem worth it. Does anyone have strong feelings towards it?

 

[DKwill]

Lightning punch definitely has it's uses as well! Vs rush down characters where you would prefer a fast punish. And in matches where you want to play aggressively.

I just want to confirm, does jumping headbutt grab onto the ledge if used as a recovery?

Also about down b's, can hand slap hit behind you whereas hot slap can't? If this is the case, then hand slap is definitely better.

Yes, jumping headbutt can indeed fall from the air and grab the edge-- yet another reason why I think it is universally the best option. It also doubles as an evasive maneuver while retaining the ability to break shields. The only drawback is that the opponent no longer stays grounded for long. However, the fact that they almost instantly pop out of the ground leads to reset situations and the ability to continue combos!

An additional note: I don't feel stubborn headbutt warrants much use at all, it is simply too slow and easy to react to at high levels of play.

In terms of the hot slap, I haven't used it much yet, does anyone have further experience with it that can determine its range as opposed to the standard hand slap?

 

[Big O]

Lightning punch definitely has it's uses as well! Vs rush down characters where you would prefer a fast punish. And in matches where you want to play aggressively.



Yes, jumping headbutt can indeed fall from the air and grab the edge-- yet another reason why I think it is universally the best option. It also doubles as an evasive maneuver while retaining the ability to break shields. The only drawback is that the opponent no longer stays grounded for long. However, the fact that they almost instantly pop out of the ground leads to reset situations and the ability to continue combos!

An additional note: I don't feel stubborn headbutt warrants much use at all, it is simply too slow and easy to react to at high levels of play.

In terms of the hot slap, I haven't used it much yet, does anyone have further experience with it that can determine its range as opposed to the standard hand slap?

Yeah congrats on your placing in that tourney the other day. I was hype when you started coming back and you made me a believer in Storm Punch in more MU's than I thought.

I think Stubborn Headbutt is not too useful in general, but in doubles I think something like on demand SA might be a bit more useful.

As far as Hot Slap is concerned, I am puzzled as to why I don't see anyone using it. It is so much more useful than Hand Slap in a lot of MU's. Against anyone with a threatening air game like Peach, Jiggs, etc. it is better by default since they hardly stay on the ground. Against Rosa in particular Hot Slap shines because Hand Slap doesn't hit Luma at all whereas Hot Slap will KO Luma from like the middle of the stage. It also doubles as a useful aerial to cover yourself in juggle type scenarios (massive range in front of and below you). It's range is slightly farther than Dtilt in front of you and reaches pretty high. It is a wall of transcendent priority and serves as a KO move (that can be done out of a run too) in a pinch.

Currently the sets that are in consideration to be added are 1132, 1233, 2233, and 3231. The sets being removed are 2131 and 3131. There are still 2 slots open and probably more to discuss, but I think overall everyone can mostly agree with the above changes.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

I tried hot slap against blacktwins and Shawn and was pleased with the results. Provides a very good edge guarding tool and keeps offensive minded players on the defensive especially if they're short hop crazy like say diddys or pikas, in addition to the characters mentioned by big o. I would probably rate it the best one although the others are also very good.

I also take back what I said about chopper kong, although it provides for more room with off stage edgeguarding against some characters, losing cyclone against some of those same characters that can combo you when you're above them is losing too much, especially Mario with his up+b kill move. Btw, for those that haven't faced it, a custom Mario in an elite players hands like blacktwins is insane...can now recover horizontally and of course vertically can hop off the stage to recover all the way from the bottom of the stage on the maps that allow it.

Also a big fan of lightning punch, I think all three punches are equally viable but of course mu's determine which one is best, and that is still to be determined.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

So if I understand DK correctly...

All three neutral and down special variations have some real uses. The 2 versions are usually less preferred than the 1 and 3 versions but are still good moves that may sometimes be worth it.

Side-2 is really preferred on side for being a move with tricky movement and little material disadvantage over side-1. Side special is probably DK's worst move regardless of which version is picked so the particular niches of side-1 and side-3 may be preferred by some players (this is a common phenomena on a character's least significant move).

On up, up-1 is a good move but up-3 kinda dominates his options just for being one of the best custom specials in the game. Up-2 is really not in the conversation.

We could supplement the sets already present, but another option that I would like to float would be to use a set configuration like this:

1231
1232
1233
2231
2232
2233
3231
3232
3233
1131

If we treat side-2 and up-3 as best, we can actually cover every possibility for neutral and down specials while still having one slot left over for a "vanilla DK with Kong Cyclone" build that it seems likely some group will prefer. We could even go further and drop a few of the least important combinations like 2232 for other headbutt variants if we wanted to, but I figured I'd float this suggestion to you guys and see what you thought.

 

[DKwill]

So if I understand DK correctly...

All three neutral and down special variations have some real uses. The 2 versions are usually less preferred than the 1 and 3 versions but are still good moves that may sometimes be worth it.

Side-2 is really preferred on side for being a move with tricky movement and little material disadvantage over side-1. Side special is probably DK's worst move regardless of which version is picked so the particular niches of side-1 and side-3 may be preferred by some players (this is a common phenomena on a character's least significant move).

On up, up-1 is a good move but up-3 kinda dominates his options just for being one of the best custom specials in the game. Up-2 is really not in the conversation.

We could supplement the sets already present, but another option that I would like to float would be to use a set configuration like this:

1231
1232
1233
2231
2232
2233
3231
3232
3233
1131

If we treat side-2 and up-3 as best, we can actually cover every possibility for neutral and down specials while still having one slot left over for a "vanilla DK with Kong Cyclone" build that it seems likely some group will prefer. We could even go further and drop a few of the least important combinations like 2232 for other headbutt variants if we wanted to, but I figured I'd float this suggestion to you guys and see what you thought.

Seeing as how I feel there are definite potential uses of focus slap and lightning punch, I'd love it if there were an option to keep them available! And yes, I agree that Jumping Headbutt and Cyclone Kong are the definite staple options for specials.

 

[Big O]

So if I understand DK correctly...

All three neutral and down special variations have some real uses. The 2 versions are usually less preferred than the 1 and 3 versions but are still good moves that may sometimes be worth it.

Side-2 is really preferred on side for being a move with tricky movement and little material disadvantage over side-1. Side special is probably DK's worst move regardless of which version is picked so the particular niches of side-1 and side-3 may be preferred by some players (this is a common phenomena on a character's least significant move).

On up, up-1 is a good move but up-3 kinda dominates his options just for being one of the best custom specials in the game. Up-2 is really not in the conversation.

We could supplement the sets already present, but another option that I would like to float would be to use a set configuration like this:

1231
1232
1233
2231
2232
2233
3231
3232
3233
1131

If we treat side-2 and up-3 as best, we can actually cover every possibility for neutral and down specials while still having one slot left over for a "vanilla DK with Kong Cyclone" build that it seems likely some group will prefer. We could even go further and drop a few of the least important combinations like 2232 for other headbutt variants if we wanted to, but I figured I'd float this suggestion to you guys and see what you thought.

I agree with this list, but I feel like there should be at least 1 set for Stubborn Headbutt, because a lot of people seem to like it and it could be somewhat useful in teams. I'd replace 1232 with a 1331, 1333, 3331, or 3333 based on popularity.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Right, side 2 and up 3 is going to be pretty much vanilla Dk, and the other 2 all 3 options are good. But it's just as much possible that side 1 or up 1 be used for 50% of the Dk mains once the game really develops...I honestly don't think we are going to come up with 8 that most dks will agree upon, given particular matchups. Pretty much all his moves are viable except chopper kong followed by stubborn headbutt, but even the latter is liked by some. We need to ask Nintendo to patch the game for more move sets than 8 to be allowed lol.

 

[Big O]

Right, side 2 and up 3 is going to be pretty much vanilla Dk, and the other 2 all 3 options are good. But it's just as much possible that side 1 or up 1 be used for 50% of the Dk mains once the game really develops...I honestly don't think we are going to come up with 8 that most dks will agree upon, given particular matchups. Pretty much all his moves are viable except chopper kong followed by stubborn headbutt, but even the latter is liked by some. We need to ask Nintendo to patch the game for more move sets than 8 to be allowed lol.

Well no list is ever going to please 100% of players, but what we can do is make one that satisfies 95%. If you think about it in terms of how much people care about each given move that 95% goal is certainly within reach. Everyone has their optimized sets and preferences, but no one will really care that a set is 2133 instead of 2233 because no one really feels that strongly about default Headbutt and the potential benefits of it are minimal. The choice of which punch and which slap to take are way more important than what headbutt to take, so it's not too bad to just have them all default to the best headbutt. We can afford to have 1 or 2 Stubborn Headbutt sets since it is so popular and we have 10 slots.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

What I'm not clear on is this. Is Stubborn Headbutt a legitimately useful move in any match-up in singles? EVO is singles only and is the main target of these sets. I know frame 1 armor is pretty awesome, but Stubborn Headbutt is so slow that it's very hard for me to imagine a real match scenario where it hits. If it's a real option it's best for us to think about how to integrate it, but if deep down it's just a bad move that people only use when making an error in judgment and for real they just should stop picking it, that has to factor into the decision making here versus what may be options that strong DKs might actually pick since covering all punch and slap variations does take 9 slots if we want to do that.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Well no list is ever going to please 100% of players, but what we can do is make one that satisfies 95%. If you think about it in terms of how much people care about each given move that 95% goal is certainly within reach. Everyone has their optimized sets and preferences, but no one will really care that a set is 2133 instead of 2233 because no one really feels that strongly about default Headbutt and the potential benefits of it are minimal. The choice of which punch and which slap to take are way more important than what headbutt to take, so it's not too bad to just have them all default to the best headbutt. We can afford to have 1 or 2 Stubborn Headbutt sets since it is so popular and we have 10 slots.

Right sorry, I meant 10 slots.
The problem is in thinking that our preferences here on this page constitute 95% of dks. I honestly think a poll needs to be done for most characters on the front of smashboards so the other favorite sets can be discovered, and only from self-professed mains or secondaries of those characters.

Here is another way to go about it, which is probably better...find all the dks that have actually attended the tournaments around the country and see what their preferences are. There are some good dks, one named chz master I believe and another emery, who frequent their respective tourney scenes, and there are others. We can ask the TO's of those tourneys to take a poll for us from those dks and report back, or have them come here and give us their preferences.

 

[Big O]

What I'm not clear on is this. Is Stubborn Headbutt a legitimately useful move in any match-up in singles? EVO is singles only and is the main target of these sets. I know frame 1 armor is pretty awesome, but Stubborn Headbutt is so slow that it's very hard for me to imagine a real match scenario where it hits. If it's a real option it's best for us to think about how to integrate it, but if deep down it's just a bad move that people only use when making an error in judgment and for real they just should stop picking it, that has to factor into the decision making here versus what may be options that strong DKs might actually pick since covering all punch and slap variations does take 9 slots if we want to do that.

I think for the sake of EVO and easy experimentation of the most impactful moves, having all 9 variations with the most useful headbutt is worth doing. That said I also sympathize with the group of DK mains that seem to really like Stubborn Headbutt.

Outside of teams I can think of a few uses for it. It could be used to punish rapid jab combos that aren't frame tight or punishing charged smashes safely from the air. It can also be used to safely grab the ledge from above with it's plentiful SA frames. It can be used as a poor man's counter and is his second longest reaching ground attack. It isn't too practical to throw out there because of it's slow and laggy nature, but it's not like Falcon/Warlock Punch tier or anything and all of the headbutts are rarely used moves. I can't say how impactful some of these advantages are or how frequently the move comes in handy (I haven't really used it), but I think it is worth including.

Maybe the group that likes using it are on to something. Maybe it's useful in some weird MU or is too amazing in teams to pass up on. We won't really know if it never has the chance to get exposure in tourneys. Perhaps 1131 could just be replaced by the most popular Stubborn Headbutt set and if it ends up not being useful, next update 1131 replaces it. I feel like 1131 is just more or less close enough to 1231, but there is nothing that simulates what Stubborn Headbutt does.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Is the best Stubborn Headbutt set 1331? Your argument for having it as set #10 seems logical to me, and I do agree that alienating a substantial playerbase is something to be avoided even though, yeah, there's a real balance in not hurting access to legitimately important competitive options.

 

[Big O]

Is the best Stubborn Headbutt set 1331? Your argument for having it as set #10 seems logical to me, and I do agree that alienating a substantial playerbase is something to be avoided even though, yeah, there's a real balance in not hurting access to legitimately important competitive options.

I think 3331 and 3333 are the more popular Stubborn Headbutt sets. I'm not sure which of the two is more important to them, but if I had to guess it'd be 3331. I suppose we could do a poll or something.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Who are these Dk mains you refer to? I know Shawn likes stubborn headbutt but we should name names if you're going to say Dk mains like it. Because the point of this is not to form preferences or seem accommodating but to form the sets that dks will actually use at tournaments and not waste time continuously making their own sets in slots 9 and 10.

@itsaxelol plz tell us what you think as well.

 

[Big O]

Who are these Dk mains you refer to? I know Shawn likes stubborn headbutt but we should name names if you're going to say Dk mains like it. Because the point of this is not to form preferences or seem accommodating but to form the sets that dks will actually use at tournaments and not waste time continuously making their own sets in slots 9 and 10.

@itsaxelol plz tell us what you think as well.

I know @ RiotLettuce and @ Aninymouse are also both fans of Stubborn Headbutt. There are also various posts in this thread indicating their favorite sets as sets with Stubborn Headbutt as well.

Also, try not to make a habit of double posting. Just edit your post instead.

 

[PhantomTriforce]

As far as Hot Slap is concerned, I am puzzled as to why I don't see anyone using it. It is so much more useful than Hand Slap in a lot of MU's. Against anyone with a threatening air game like Peach, Jiggs, etc. it is better by default since they hardly stay on the ground. Against Rosa in particular Hot Slap shines because Hand Slap doesn't hit Luma at all whereas Hot Slap will KO Luma from like the middle of the stage. It also doubles as a useful aerial to cover yourself in juggle type scenarios (massive range in front of and below you). It's range is slightly farther than Dtilt in front of you and reaches pretty high. It is a wall of transcendent priority and serves as a KO move (that can be done out of a run too) in a pinch.

It's because Hot Slap can't hit behind you. Which means that you are totally open from behind if you use this move. Hand Slap does hit behind you, so I guess it's just a matter of preference whether you would like the move to hit a bit above too or cover the area behind you as well.

 

[Aninymouse]

It's because Hot Slap can't hit behind you. Which means that you are totally open from behind if you use this move. Hand Slap does hit behind you, so I guess it's just a matter of preference whether you would like the move to hit a bit above too or cover the area behind you as well.

That is exactly why. Even so, I think down B 2 AND 3 are more useful than people realize (mostly Hot Slap), but not many people practice with them. Not many people have been practicing with custom moves AT ALL, though, so that pretty much goes for any character that isn't Palutena or Miis. Thankfully, EVO is changing that, so more people will explore these custom moves now.

Hot Slap is good. Storm Punch is good. Stubborn Headbutt is good. Kong Cyclone is amazing. Everything else is useable, but I feel like those are the best ones. If you aren't using those, you probably ought to be using the default.

Edit: Big O laid out a lot of perks that Stubborn Headbutt has, but I'd like to refine one of his points. Maybe I've even said that it was a counter in the past myself, but it isn't really used as a "counter." It can't, because it isn't. However, if you're going to use it like one (as I do at times), what it actually does is force a trade in your favor. You take the %, they take the %, but only they suffer the knockback. It's pretty much like how Charizard uses Rock Smash. Both Charizard and DK are big and heavy, so they can afford to take on more % without dying... they can afford to absorb the opponent's % to put on a big chunk of their own.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Smh@worrying that hot slap doesn't bit behind you. Tell me how often you use regular slap and the backside is what hits your opponent? I can tell you that for me I'm typically facing their direction, maybe 10% of the time they are behind me. Obviously with hot slap it's a different move and one uses it differently.

 

[Aninymouse]

The backwards hit on down B 1 basically covers roll behind. It happens rarely, sure, but it is useful to have. In 1 vs 1, though, I guess it doesn't come into play much.

 

[RiotLettuce]

I prefer Stubborn headbutt on normal stages with little to no platforms, such as Final Destination and Smashville, whereas on Battlefield, Town And City, Lylat, I need standard side b to break shields on platforms when pressuring from below. Then on the more gimmicky counterpicks such as Delfino Castle Siege, I love using the Jumping Headbutt.

As for my other customs I need Storm Punch, Focused Slap, and Kong Cyclone.

 

[DKwill]

So I'm testing out Hot Slap right now for the first time, and I have to say I see the appeal. Has anyone tested this move in tournament yet? I'm beginning to favor it much more than I have previously.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

I tested it against players of your caliber IMHO, worked against them. I plan on using it today at a small tournament here in KC, I'll give further thoughts on it afterwards.

Hot slap has synergy with dks other custom moves...i played on some systems today that had no custom moves on them except hot slap and I found out through experimenting that hot slap without cyclone kong isn't really viable, but I couldn't tell you specifically why other than approach options were more limited. That's really all I have to say at the moment.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets:
Donkey Kong:

1/2/3, 2, 3, 1/2/3, niche X3XX

1231, 1232, 1233, 2231, 2232, 2233, 3231, 3232, 3233
niche: 3331

These sets as they stand are prioritizing the punch and slap variations that most DKs seem to agree are the most important moves to be able to switch between. If people would prefer a different direction here (or or the one Stubborn Headbutt set to be a different one even if you want the same direction!), please let us know.

 

[Twin Rhapsody]

So I'm testing out Hot Slap right now for the first time, and I have to say I see the appeal. Has anyone tested this move in tournament yet? I'm beginning to favor it much more than I have previously.

I actually went to my local monthly today, and Grands was against a Kirby main. Hot Slap helped shut down his approach and kill around 100-110. I reset the bracket but did lose unfortunately. I took it to 8 games and wouldn't have done as well without Hot Slap.

 

[z00ted]

Kong Cyclone should be banned ;-;

 

[DaRkJaWs]

It really is a strong move whose potential hasn't fully been tapped into, I don't know how many times I've used it off stage as ppl have tried to recover only to throw them some strange distance down or away from the stage. Once dks can pin down how characters recoveries will be affected given the angle and particular character up+b (which also requires good reads by the Dk) it may become so powerful that it may very well become banned. But if you refer only to the super armor aspect of it, it's not OP even if powerful.

 

[Gidy]

I just came here to say Kong cyclone is broken. So many salty people on anthers ladder after today and today's the first time I played Donkey Kong on Rank.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Obviously you and others just need practice against it...you can't come in here facing it a few times and say it's broken. Yes, it requires you play differently but you can beat it. And for those that are salty that Dk can get out of their silly combos now, well, tough cookies. You won't get any sympathy around here, considering we are playing a character that can get juggled easily.

And as I said above, where it might be broken is when it can totally destroy people's recoveries, and even in the limited time I've played with customs i have killed at least 10 times by blowing people away from the stage (purposely) when they use their up+b's at low percentages. But whether it is broken or not is still tbd, as I haven't had the chance to play with it much.

 

[Gidy]

Obviously you and others just need practice against it...you can't come in here facing it a few times and say it's broken. Yes, it requires you play differently but you can beat it. And for those that are salty that Dk can get out of their silly combos now, well, tough cookies. You won't get any sympathy around here, considering we are playing a character that can get juggled easily.

And as I said above, where it might be broken is when it can totally destroy people's recoveries, and even in the limited time I've played with customs i have killed at least 10 times by blowing people away from the stage (purposely) when they use their up+b's at low percentages. But whether it is broken or not is still tbd, as I haven't had the chance to play with it much.

Is donkey kong the.... DIDDY SLAYER? FATHER WILL PUNISH HIS SON FOR SUCH BS COMBOS!

 

[DKwill]

I've been educating my livestream on how to deal with Kong Cyclone. With proper timing you can actually air dodge the parts of the move that hit you (the initial hit and the strong hit at the end). In terms of the wind hitboxes of the move, simply don't hold a direction while you're inside it or your knockback will be amplified. Cardinal sin = holding down during the wind part of the up-b offstage-- you will shoot downwards into the blast zone and be unable to recover.

It's certainly a gimmicky custom move, but it's by no means broken given that you can avoid all of it's hitboxes and you can play it safe when caught by the wind. I have certainly experienced some silly things using it though. =x

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Oh ok, and here I wondered why they shot downwards sometimes, it's because they are actually holding down. Regardless, kong cyclone as they try to recover with up+b is definitely an area where development is likely to occur, as I'd like to see how it affects it given the character and the ability of the Dk to grab the ledge before the other person hits the dks hitbox.

 

[DKwill]

What's more is that when you are caught in the wind above the stage, you can hold down to pop out of the move entirely. It just takes a good amount of experience fighting. But yes I do feel it is most useful offstage, especially vs recoveries with set movements that will automatically be influenced by the wind.

 

[Big O]

I came across this weird behavior the other day. Apparently Bowser's passive heavy armor blocks Jumping Headbutt from burying him until like 82%. In the air he still gets knocked away, but if he's on the ground you are going to get punished with Fsmash for free if you hit him until then.