Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Captain Falcon

[Amazing Ampharos]

Welcome to the official Smashboards Standard Custom Set project. In brief, this project is designed to be a logistical solution to using custom movesets in tournaments by filling many of the in-game slots with the most popular and powerful sets for each character so they can be quickly selected without further 3ds import. This will allow tournaments with customizations on to save large amounts of time throughout the event. More details about the project's ideas and mission can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

Our goal here is to find out what the most popular and powerful sets are for your particular character the best way we know how: asking you the mains of this character. To be clear, we're not talking about disallowing any particular custom sets or even imposing any rules in general; we're talking about making sure the popular and powerful options are simply accessible quickly in a tournament environment as our sole mission. We need up to three critical sets that represent the best options your character has that have wide general utility and from there to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental movesets that will cover less mainstream, more match-up specific, or even teams sets. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 to allow all moves to be explored more easily in the new metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are left open for 3ds import of non-standard sets.

Please list all movesets in the order NSUD, that is neutral special, side special, up special, and down special. This four digit code will be the naming convention so players can quickly and easily identify which moveset is which.

I know for many characters the default moveset, 1111, is a powerful and useful option. However, it should not be included; the game allows default to be picked regardless of what custom options are prepared so including it does not add any additional options to players.

I further know that some characters may find six slots a large number to fill. Others may find six very limiting. Do your best to pick out the overall six most likely to be picked even if some good stuff has to be left on the table or if some more experimental sets have to be included to fill out six. Every set included is time saved in tournament when that set would be picked, and we want to make the best use we can of these slots.

I would ask that everyone please be respectful of each other's opinions; this game is young, and the metagame is still very much forming so we are likely to each perceive it differently. This project will be revisited throughout the game's lifespan and revised to properly include the most mainstream movesets at the time. What we want for now is what will be commonly selected for now, and don't worry, other options are not being discriminated against as those last two slots are left open for 3ds transfer for a reason. This first version of this project will be refined throughout the rest of the year, but I hope to have a very rough draft up and usable by December 5 so TOs who wish to use the results of this project will have something to plug in for that weekend's worth of events. Thank you for your cooperation in this project, and we look forward to making sure the most useful options are quickly available for your character under this system.

 

[BigLord]

This is a great idea

I personally use:

2 (Dashing Falcon Punch)
1 (Raptor Boost)
2 (Falcon Strike)
1 (Falcon Kick).

 

[SAHunterMech]

I'm running two sets at the moment, I honestly think I'm going to swap back and forth based on what opponent I'm fighting. In my opinion, Falcon needs Raptor Boost or Falcon Kick to be default, since they're the fastest, and I think it's much better to alternate between a fast speical and a slow one for ground approach. If everything has the same startup speed for those two slots (all default = fast, all custom = slow), you get less mixup.


Set #1:

3 (Mighty Falcon Punch)
2 (Heavy Raptor Boost)
1 (Falcon Dive)
1 (Falcon Kick)

I think this set is better for heavies, since you can simultaneously ledgeguard them (Mighty Punch), punish them (Falcon Kick), and kill them with a decent effectiveness (Heavy Raptor Boost). It's geared towards finishing stocks off, and it's not the best for racking up damage, since default Falcon Kick can go as low as 6%, and you just can't throw out Heavy Raptor Boost that often.


Set #2:

1 (Falcon Punch)
1 (Raptor Boost)
1 (Falcon Dive)
2 (Falcon Kick Fury)

This set is much zippier, better for lighter/faster characters, with side-b and down-b becoming punish moves (I don't consider Heavy Raptor Boost a good punish, since it's so bloody slow). It's geared towards racking up damage quickly, but you may run into trouble with finishing stocks, since Raptor Boost is weaker, and Falcon Kick Fury is the weakest of weak **** in terms of knockback growth, fantastic as it is for punishing spot-dodges and rolls.



In closing, I think Falcon has some great customs, and could run a considerable amount of movesets, but at the same time I feel that some individual moves just don't cut it:

Wind-Up Raptor Boost. (Too slow to be so weak, appears to go farther, doesn't)
Lightning Kick. (Not safe on hit until higher %'s, slowest startup of the three kicks)
Explosive Falcon Dive. (Terrible recovery, not worth the killing power)

 

[BigLord]

Very well explained! I prefer to have a consistent set anyway, but your idea is neat, too.

Wind-Up Raptor Boost. (Too slow to be so weak, appears to go farther, doesn't)
Lightning Kick. (Not safe on hit until higher %'s, slowest startup of the three kicks)
Explosive Falcon Dive. (Terrible recovery, not worth the killing power)

What about Falcon Strike? Also, I think Dashing Falcon Punch would look great in that "zippier" set of yours, haha.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Falcon Strike is deceptive because it appears to cover a lot more ground than Falcon Dive. It DOES have a visible vertical advantage over Falcon Dive, but the increase in horizontal distance is minimal, and THAT's the one that matters. I mean, there's very little I can't make it back from with Wall Jump + Falcon Dive that I could've with Falcon Strike in its place.

The main thing to consider is that U-Air--->U-Air--->U-Air--->Up-B strings are back, and you uh.. kind of need to be able to HYES people in order to do them.

Still, I can see a potential "Maximized Recovery" Falcon kit, with all of his specials being geared for some serious mixup during recovery:

2 (Falcon Dash Punch)
1 (Raptor Boost)
3 (Falcon Strike)
3 (Lighting Falcon Kick)

Holding Up or Down during Dash punch is incredible; the change in trajectory is so big you can actually surprise people now. Lightning Kick works well in tandem with Falcon Strike, as one gets you under the ledge, the other launches you high up into it. It's also a decent-but-hard-to-time ledge guard, instead of outright suicide, like the other kicks are.

I'm just not a fan of Lightning Kick otherwise; it should stun all the time, air or ground, with the stun being scaled relative to damage just like ZSS. Then you could justify it having fixed knockback, instead of having it kill at an awkwardly high % (170). Then it could be legitimately threatening, instead of weak and easy to punish.


As for your idea of putting dash punch on my "zippier" set, well, as much as I love dash punch, it's... slower than Falcon Punch. Weaker, too. A skilled player probably won't ever get hit by the sourspot, either. Default PAUNCH is the only one that's quick enough to really punish, IMO. The other two customs are more mind-gamey. Even then, I think people are going to become less afraid to try and punish them as time goes on. Still, Mighty Punch is a solid ledgeguard, and Dash Punch is spectacular for recovery. The two moves are just... very very niched. Default Paunch is a bit more flexible, in my opinion.

 

[BigLord]

Default Pawnch is awful, imo, but when you reverse it, that's when the fun starts.

... well, the same goes for any other falcon punch, really.

Oh and about Falcon Strike, when you can't wall jump you WILL thank God you picked Falcon Strike over Falcon Dive. Happened to me dozens and dozens of times already.

 

[SAHunterMech]

To each his own. Right now I'm loving the Mighty Punch ledgeguard, because if it connects, it's either going to kill, or set them up to be hit by it continually until it does. 18% sourspot. It's just not as good for characters with vertical recovery, like ZSS, but that's a bad matchup anyway, because !@#$ that !#@!#ing !@#!@$, she just !$@#@! !@@!$ $#$!$#!!! (Seriously, it's like she was genetically engineered to shut down Falcon.)

And the Falcon Strike debacle is difficult for me, mostly because you're giving up the ability to HYES. I just can't live my life without that, I really can't. I'd rather lose the stock.

If I'm going to be completely honest though, I really feel like I'm cheating when I use a Falcon Punch custom. It's a personal sense of pride to get a kill with such a telegraphed, unsafe move; when said move gets perks, like being harder to punish or being ridiculously huge, I get all Falcon Sad.

 

[Thor]

The main thing to consider is that U-Air--->U-Air--->U-Air--->Up-B strings are back, and you uh.. kind of need to be able to HYES people in order to do them.

I'm pretty sure you can almost always airdodge out of them - I was playing a Falcon player and every time he went for it (when I was Link or Falcon), I was able to airdodge to avoid it (one time I didn't and did get hit by it, but then I realized I should try airdodging and I avoided it. Every. Single. Time.) And he SD'd a few times because of this (offstage guts).

I usually opt for 2121 or 2111 if I don't want default - I don't like either custom raptor boost or either custom falcon kick, and the explosive Falcon dive seems like trash. I will try the mighty falcon punch ledge guard becase I don't know how well that works against most characters (does it work like little mac dsmash? If not, I don't know why anyone who's paying attention doesn't just sweetspot from below...).

 

[SAHunterMech]

I'm pretty sure you can almost always airdodge out of them

...****. There goes my fun. Well, up until recently I would have agreed with you about Explosive Dive being garbage, but I discovered something that may make it viable: Using it after a Lightning Kick stun. It's one of the few setups that chain into Up-B almost perfectly every time, so long as you adjust your positioning accordingly. This 'combo', if you land it, can do up to 40% damage, and kill as early as 70%. You're even pairing the Up-B alt with the worst recovery paired with the one Falcon Kick alt that improves recovery, to boot (Heh, boot, kick, get it?).

I've been trying to analyze the Falcon alts as much as I can, and so far it seems like only Explosive Dive and Wind-Up Raptor Boost are truly useless (Potentially insane combo for the latter aside). Still, I'm looking over at Falcon Kick Fury now, and I must say, it's damned well useless in the air. It's not safe air-to-ground ON HIT. Offstage is suicide. Plus, as previously stated, it doesn't kill until nearly 200%.

 

[SAHunterMech]

(Edit: Um, I double posted, and it won't let me delete this one, apparently.)

 

[Thor]

...****. There goes my fun. Well, up until recently I would have agreed with you about Explosive Dive being garbage, but I discovered something that may make it viable: Using it after a Lightning Kick stun. It's one of the few setups that chain into Up-B almost perfectly every time, so long as you adjust your positioning accordingly. This 'combo', if you land it, can do up to 40% damage, and kill as early as 70%. You're even pairing the Up-B alt with the worst recovery paired with the one Falcon Kick alt that improves recovery, to boot (Heh, boot, kick, get it?).

I've been trying to analyze the Falcon alts as much as I can, and so far it seems like only Explosive Dive and Wind-Up Raptor Boost are truly useless (Potentially insane combo for the latter aside). Still, I'm looking over at Falcon Kick Fury now, and I must say, it's damned well useless in the air. It's not safe air-to-ground ON HIT. Offstage is suicide. Plus, as previously stated, it doesn't kill until nearly 200%.

I'm pretty much positive that combo (uairs into regular up+b) will eat anyone's jump alive (and then since I think his up+b doesn't restore jumps, you can fastfall if you're onstage and then try to follow up again?). I just know if the opponent religiously airdodges, you should do it as a bait once, then fake and follow with another uair (or even a knee if you can get it).

 

[SAHunterMech]

Fair Enough.

You use default Raptor Boost and Falcon Kick though? Interesting. I find that the two moves are so similar (startup time, distance travelled, etc), that you need a custom on one of them just to be able to mix up more.

 

[BigLord]

Aerial Falcon Kick is a good "get away from me" move, though. Mainly when the opponent isn't expecting it AND he's at mid/high percentages. But yeah, when grounded, they're both similar.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Yeah, Default Falcon Kick in the air is, more or less, in the same boat as the other stall-then-fall dairs now in terms of speed, albeit more powerful and damaging. It's decent. Just don't spam it, lol.

I've been running this set the past few days, and I'm really enjoying it. Being able to edgeguard offstage AND onstage is a great way to mess with people. It's also nice to alternate between Raptor Boost and aerial Lightning kicks for approach; doing up-b or even side-b out of Lightning kick stun is helpful at lower percents, when you know the knee won't kill.

3 (Mighty Falcon Punch)
1 (Raptor Boost)
1 (Falcon Dive)
3 (Lighting Falcon Kick)

 

[Starkiller2]

I'm still experimenting with what I prefer, but I feel that if custom moves are used there is no reason to NOT use the Mighty Falcon Punch. The original is so slow already, you weren't going to use it before. Now, if you do have an opportunity to land it, you probably also have time to use the stronger, slower one too. As for Raptor Boost, I stick to the regular because it's fast and kills at decent percents. I'm undecided on Falcon Kick tho, I debate on Lightning vs Original. As for Falcon Dive, thee strong one is CRAZY strong, if you grab someone with it near the edge they will probably die, even at the low percents. I like having recovery, so I guess against a character like Sheik I might want to run regular or the Strike. Thinking about it more, the heavy variant is best kept for styling but in using it you'd have to also play super safe to avoid being put offstage.

So, I lean towards 31X1 basically. Other than that, I think his original set is pretty strong but I see good use for 31X3.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Mighty, Mighty Falcon Punch
Make opponents lose their lunch!
Push their sanity to the edge,
When you use it to guard the ledge!



Seriously though, It's so stronk against a lot of the roster; I love how reliable it is. But do you agree that it's much harder to use against characters with high vertical recovery, like ZSS (Flip Kick)? Do you think it's better used in tandem with Lightning kick, just so you can alternate between guarding off-stage and on stage?

And Explosive Falcon Dive is just tantalizingly cool, agreed. But you have to have brass balls to use it. Brass. Freaking. Balls.

 

[Starkiller2]

If you catch someone without their jump perhaps uair->Explosive Falcon Dive works, but I bet they could airdodge. So use this against low skill players or bait the airdodge. Falcon doesn't have a lot of problems killing so he probably doesn't need this :3

 

[SAHunterMech]

That's the thing; it's really just icing on the cake at this point, and it's more difficult to set up than a plain old knee. Still, the Lightning Kick ---> Explosive Dive setup is very real, and the 40% it can deal is very scary. It would be cool if there was one Falcon out there who mastered it, just to be a badass, lol.

"I don't need no recovery"

 

[Masonomace]

I can say that Exlosive Falcon Dive isn't great on its own, & that while I was messing around with Falcon on the 3DS back when the game released, Lightning Falcon Kick's shocking hit-lag sets up for Explosive Falcon Dive PERFECTLY. I approve of it immensely.

My current set in mind:
3 = MFP (Mighty Falcon Punch. . .sticking to it)
1 = RB aka Raptor Boost
3 = EFD (Explosive Falcon Dive. . .sticking to it)
3 = LFK (Lightning Falcon Kick. . .sticking to it)

Again, LFK > EFD is sick. I thought it was so important to master I was practicing footstool setups to string LFK after a footstool to put them in that hit-lag state for that free EFD damage. It's like LFK was born to make EFD fantastic. If at times they'd pop up too high for the command-grabbing EFD to reach you'd buffer a SH & EFD in time to catch them from leaving.

 

[SAHunterMech]

You do realize the responsibility of being the chosen one, right? This isn't something to be taken lightly.

 

[Masonomace]

You do realize the responsibility of being the chosen one, right? This isn't something to be taken lightly.

(Is this directed to me?)

The combination of LFK's Paralyzing feature in conjunction with EFD is a Custom Set match made in manly heaven. Anyone who masters this can be more than the chosen one; they can be the definition of HYESZ.

 

[SAHunterMech]

(Is this directed to me?)

Yeah. I was just jokingly talking about someone being manly enough to try that combo, and then you showed up, already having it mastered. You ARE the chosen one now. Anyone who follows in your footsteps is merely one of your disciples of manliness. I salute you, sir.

 

[Masonomace]

Yeah. I was just jokingly talking about someone being manly enough to try that combo, and then you showed up, already having it mastered. You ARE the chosen one now. Anyone who follows in your footsteps is merely one of your disciples of manliness. I salute you, sir.

Sorry but thank you. When I play versus my friend who's also my sparring partner offline I'll give feedback on it.

I want to be masterful with LFK + EFD to the extent I can connect a LFK to paralyze them, footstool them & buffer a LFK out of footstool stun, & commence with a B-Reversed EFD for that 50+ damage. Again I'll let this thread know of my findings & maybe have a video showcasing it if possible.

The issue with LFK's Paralyze effect is players can mash during the animation to escape, but the Paralyze effect prolongs the higher their % is. But now that their % is higher, a grounded EFD won't connect due to the long start-up of EFD to get the command grab in. The solution to this was to buffer a SH for that extra bit of height & chase for their knockback trail depending on where they DI with EFD & net the KO.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

I bring this from Reddit. Say what you will of the individual responses, but I see worth from any opinion.

I find that my preferred moveset for Captain Falcon is 3122, as the Falcon Strike gives incredibly increased recovery while sacrificing the ability to grab people as an attack, a more than worthy trade-off, and the Mighty Falcon Kick has a multi-hit quality to it that allows you to reliably trap enemies and rack up damage while still launching them on the last hit, turning his Falcon Kick into a far more viable move on the ground. The Neutral B can really be anything that you prefer, although I have the Mighty Falcon Punch as I find that while punishing a broken shield or some such event, it's the flashiest way of launching them.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Hm. It seems almost unanimous that default Raptor Boost is the only good option on that slot. I mean, Heavy Raptor Boost is fun and all, but it's just not going to connect often enough.

 

[BigLord]

That's actually really great for the Custom Moveset Project, because that means that the options have been narrowed to X1XX

 

[Masonomace]

Hmm. . .yeah Heavy Rapot Boost is decent for when people spot-dodge, but the new defensive option to abuse is rolling so, I don't think HRB can keep up with that unless you hard-read it. I still like it I just would rather use the Wind-Up Raptor Boost for it's mind-games & horizontal recovery.

Overall default Raptor Boost for me is the way to go. X1XX is fine by me.

 

[Starkiller2]

I just want to add that there is no reason to not use the heavy falcon punch. If you think about it realistically, you should never ever have to use the falcon punch. If you EVER get the opportunity, you probably also have the opportunity to use the heavy falcon punch. It's just better than the original in every realistic way. The dashing punch doesn't do anything better, unless it helps recovery.
I think we can nail down the overall best setup to 31XX.

 

[Masonomace]

I dig that. Mighty Falcon Punch is for sure a good Custom to use especially for them edge-guards, but I find good usage for Falcon Dash Punch's utility. Falcon Dash Punch can be angled upward or downward & the aerial mobility of B-Reversng or WaveBouncing FDP with an upward influence feels great for edge-guard breaking some characters aggressively fighting you off-stage while recovering like a boss.

I'll be an advocate & support 21XX & 31XX

 

[Starkiller2]

Haha what comes after Fox's 20XX?
Falcon with 21XX XD

And naturally, anyone can use whatever set up they prefer, the set ups discussed in this topic are to enlighten others.

 

[SAHunterMech]

I know one thing for sure, I'm going insane. I can't settle on a moveset anymore. Specifically, I'm trying to have the best selection of specials to counter Zero Suit Samus, who, in my opinion, is one of the worst matchups Falcon has (And just an annoyingly risk-free character in general). Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Comorant]

Can't Dash Falcon Punch be used for recovery? I think that gives it a whole world of merit over the standard Falcon Punch or its more explosive counterpart.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Can't Dash Falcon Punch be used for recovery?

It very much can be. Especially since the upward/downward angled punches are much more exaggerated. It's basically N64 Punch on steroids in that regard.

And yes, it is currently very difficult for me to discern which punch is the best one to use, if any. Regular starts up the fastest, and hits the hardest, but Dash's recovery and Mighty's ledgeguarding are super useful. Honestly, it feels like Punch customs in particular could end up being decided by what character you're fighting, especially in the case of Mighty Punch, which is Godlike against Bowser/DK, but nearly useless against characters like ZSS.

In the end though, Dash Punch might be the best choice overall, just because it's such a miniscule trade-off in terms of knockback compared to default Punch, it assists recovery, and it can ledgeguard/has a sourspot. Essentially, it has the traits of the other two Punches.

 

[Starkiller2]

If you run 2133, then you still have some recovery while maintaining the LFK->EFD combo :D

 

[Masonomace]

If you run 2133, then you still have some recovery while maintaining the LFK->EFD combo :D

I love this set. I'm not Falcon, but I approve~

I actually didn't go that in-depth with the Falcon Punches, since I only messed around with them a couple of times & played with each Falcon Punch including the default twice each, but FDP & MFP felt pretty good to use.

I may test out each Raptor Boost Custom including the default & see how they perform when using them a centimeter off the floor to slide across the ground. I remember this was in Brawl & was a quirk I really enjoyed about Raptor Boost in Brawl. So I'll see how that goes. I'm hoping the W-URB slides much farther than the other Raptor Boosts so I know how to close the gap as quickly as possible. Frame data of the lag will vary too.

 

[SAHunterMech]

I may test out each Raptor Boost Custom including the default & see how they perform when using them a centimeter off the floor to slide across the ground. I remember this was in Brawl & was a quirk I really enjoyed about Raptor Boost in Brawl. So I'll see how that goes. I'm hoping the W-URB slides much farther than the other Raptor Boosts so I know how to close the gap as quickly as possible. Frame data of the lag will vary too.

Whoa, what is this craziness you speak of?

 

[Masonomace]

Whoa, what is this craziness you speak of?

It has to do with Raptor Boosting very close to the ground, while going upward on a sloped surface. Take Delfino Plaza's beach slopes for example, or Castle Siege's 1st transition with the slopes on each side. I forgot to mess around with it earlier today so I have no update about it.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Ah. Cool stuff. Um, getting back to this...

Specifically, I'm trying to have the best selection of specials to counter Zero Suit Samus, who, in my opinion, is one of the worst matchups Falcon has (And just an annoyingly risk-free character in general). Anyone have any suggestions?

I'm getting desperate. Anyone have ideas?

 

[BigLord]

Against Zamus? Depends on what customs she uses

But seriously, against her your best bet is regular and regular . Punish those mistakes ASAP.

It has to do with Raptor Boosting very close to the ground, while going upward on a sloped surface. Take Delfino Plaza's beach slopes for example, or Castle Siege's 1st transition with the slopes on each side. I forgot to mess around with it earlier today so I have no update about it.

I LOVE(d) doing that! Regular Falcon Boost still does it (very VERY easily on Yoshi's Island... on the 3DS), not sure about the others.

 

[SAHunterMech]

But seriously, against her your best bet is regular and regular . Punish those mistakes ASAP.

Sigh... I knew you were going to say that. It just confirms my suspicions. Regardless, it's tricky, especially with her F-Smash having less recovery. It pains me to say it, but default Raptor Boost and Default Falcon kick might be the only ones that can cut it against faster (read: higher tier) characters; what do you think?