[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[donkeykongwii]

I have an idea for the new and improved stage builder

1. Timed based activities eg: Lava rising, F-zero cars racing through, heck possibly delfino plaza like platforms to take you to another location.

2. AS you progress and unlock characters, you will stumble apon new part packs. But they arent ordinary part packs, because just say you beat classic with luigi, you will get a super mario themed pack with pipes with piranhas in it, many themed blocks and shy guys in karts racing around.

3. breakable objects: i remember the preview of ssbm and there was a pic of bowser in hyrule temple being smashed by peach, in the pic it looked like he just got smashed through the pillar but truely didnt. So in it will be breakable pillars, stones, platformers and even things that can die like a fire flower burning a tree.

4. 4 tracks on 1 stage: Each stage should have at least 4 music tracks to choose from, with ajustable frequencys(as in how often it will be played)

but my next idea is so epic other people probably would have thought of it aswell
next post coming...

 

[C.Olimar788]

I think it'd work better if you swapped characters automatically upon death rather tan being able to switch in-battle, but that's just me. :/

Either way, a multi-character battle mode thingy would be downright awesome in any way. :D

 

[donkeykongwii]

And the CHARACTER CREATOR!!!

1: You start out with a base dummy who you can add skin, fur, steel, or what ever you want it to look like.
2: After that, you will have an energy meter, if you add too many ultimate attacks you will need to tone it down.
3: Pick your attacks: Your a moves stay the same, as they are just basic punchs. You will pick 5 attacks, the 4 b moves, and the FS. More moves can be unlocked during the game. The attacks would be catagorised like fire attacks would go in elemental and blasters would be in projectile
4: Pick a name: i think you would have a little more stace than Melees nicknames

 

[flyinfilipino]

*There needs to be a Torture Mode. It would let you torture characters you don't like in many more ways then you could in Training Mode. Have Sakurai (or new developer for SSB4) be one of the victims you can choose for Torture mode, so that I can torture Sakurai for not putting Krystal in SSB4. There would be DLC for new torture tools and they would all be free.

That's funny.

The fallacy has always been that complexity does not make it less fun, but this steams from the fallacy that casual players don't care and will eat the game up anyway.

Wavedashing was a good example of this since it enraged the majority of Smash Brother players. Only the competitive scene liked it. It should also be noted that the competitive scene is the one who wants to see more complexity and the return of hitstun.

I highly doubt that the majority of all Melee players (people that owned and played SSBM) were enraged by wavedashing. I mean, how could you even know that?

 

[Pazx]

Ridley will be in too, and I look forward to an epic battle between Ridley and a Starfox character in Norion.

Ok, you and me, Ridley vs Krystal, soon as it's out!



If you switched char on death wouldn't that be similar to story? I think it should be set up alike pokemon. Each char has a diff smash meter (gives you a reason to switch out at 586% eh?) and you can switch freely, but when one is defeated, it's out till the end.

...

Not sure 'bout custom chars. They will either be insanely powerful or weak-as. Might be hard...

 

[KCJ506]

My wishlist


Mario series
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Paper Mario
Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario
Waluigi
Daisy
Birdo

Stages
Mushroom Kingdom 3(based off SMB3)
Comet Observertory
Paper Mario Stage
Mario Paint stage
Bowser's Castle
Rainbow Road


Wario series
Wario
Ashley
Captain Syrup

Stages
Warioland
Diamond City
Mona Pizza


Yoshi series
Yoshi

Stages
Yoshi's Storybook
Crystal Caves from SMW2


DK series
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
King K. Rool

Stages
Gangplank Galleon
Crocodile Cauldron


Zelda series
Link
Toon Link
Zelda/Sheik
Ganondorf
Midna/Wolf Link


Stages
Twilight Palace
Ganon's Tower
a stage from the next Zelda game


Starfox series
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal

Stages
Dinosaur Planet
Zoness
Asteroid Field

Metriod series
Samus
Dark Samus

Stages
Phenedrana Drifts
Aether and Dark Aether
Generator Shaft

Kirby series
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Adelaine

Stages
Mt. Dedede
The place where you fight Nightmare in KA


Pokemon series
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
Meowtoo
Lucario
5th gen Pokemon

Stages
S.S Anne
Sootopolis City
An area from Platnium

F-zero series
Captain Falcon
Black Shadow

Stages
Phantom Road
Casino Palace
Aeropolis

Mother series
Ness
Lucas
Claus
Jeff

Stages
Winters
Haunted Zoo
Osohe Castle

Fire Emblem series
Marth
Ike
Roy
Lyn
Michiah

Stages
Ribahn River


Pikmin series
Captain Olimar
Louie

Stages
Perplexing Pool

Other Nintendo series
Ice Climbers
R.O.B
Mr. Game & Watch
Pit
Little Mac
Issac
Mike Jones from Startropics
Lip
Saki
Captain Rainbow

Stages
Flat Zone 3
Underworld
Punch-Out Ring
Mercury Lighthouse
C-Island
Tetris Stage

3rd party
Snake
Sonic
Megaman
Pac-Man
Simon Belmont
Banjo-Kazooie
Earthworm Jim(Yes I went there)

Stages
Outer Haven
Casino Night Zone
Hidden Palace/Emerald Shrine
Dr Wily's Skull Lair
Pac-man Maze
Clock Tower
Spiral Mountain
Buttville

 

[MBreeto]

^^^^ to previous post (not gonna quote it because that would be mean

I think paper mario would make a pretty cool addition, but I don't think you could have both G&W and Paper Mario in the same game. The both kinda have the same gimmick. I would have to lean with keeping G&W though, sorry.

Other than that, that's a lot of expectations you've got going there lol, hopefully a few of them will be granted.

I would really like to see Banjo-Kazooie in the game, I think he would fit perfectly with the style of brawl

 

[Scott!]

I wish there were a chance of Banjo-Kazooie, but since they're Rare-ware now, it looks pretty slim. Oh well. It's just some great potential lost right there. I gave up completely on them (far too late) when I heard they were having a game on the 360.

 

[ZlinkLGZ]

Personally, i really liked the roster that was a fake for brawl a few months before the release. Additionally i would like to see Lyn or even dare i say Hector. (He has an axe, come on.) And Zero from the megaman Zero series would be cool. The could possibly do something like zelda is to sheik with a Megaman ZX Protagonist.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

In case Spade doesn't think any legit reasons have been given for Krystal:

She's relevant. All her games have come out recently.
She's unique. Her staff, which was her main tool where she comes from, is a very unprecedented form of smashing.
She's female. Not enough girls on the roster, and she's one of the more deep ones. She has way more personality than Peach or Samus (not dissing them though).
She's got an accent. Not enough speaking characters yet, and those who do seem a bit dry (Pit and Ike).
She was what Star Fox Adventures was all about. She provided Fox with the means and motive to accomplish his mission. Contrary to some, I believe it was a good game.
She fits the Smash image. Star Fox characters in general do. Smash is all about characters who aren't as limited as real humans, physically. Snake, Zamus etc are exceptions, but SF characters can be just the right amount of non-realistic to pull off Smash's signature less-than believable style.

On that note, DK characters are a little too ridiculous. Give me a picture of K. Rool where he doesn't look like a doofus and I'll take the prospect seriously.

 

[Kiyoo]

I want to see Mega Man in the next game... I mean, I thought three new characters were going to be added and it seemed right, but I guess not. Also, it's not something I really want to have in the next game, but Viewtiful Joe would be Hilarious.

But, I do want to see better online capabilities and how about a character creator? It would be fun to mess around and tweak with stuff, even though it'd still be nintendo kid friendly.

I'm sorry, I really do want Viewtiful Joe in this game even though he's a third party.

 

[WolfCypher]

She's relevant. All her games have come out recently.

Or rather "she's relevant because she's the StarFox token love interest character?"

She's unique. Her staff, which was her main tool where she comes from, is a very unprecedented form of smashing.

Again I say that she doesn't even use the staff anymore. I keep imagining an inaccurate portrayal of her, where she's wearing he most resent outfit (her Team SF jumpsuit from StarFox Command) but with the staff from SFA.

She's female. Not enough girls on the roster, and she's one of the more deep ones. She has way more personality than Peach or Samus (not dissing them though).

This is the only reason the haters wouldn't mind seeing her on the roster.

She's got an accent. Not enough speaking characters yet, and those who do seem a bit dry (Pit and Ike).

Ummm...weird reason...

She was what Star Fox Adventures was all about. She provided Fox with the means and motive to accomplish his mission. Contrary to some, I believe it was a good game.

I liked that game...even if it was the beginning of StarFox's decline.

She fits the Smash image. Star Fox characters in general do. Smash is all about characters who aren't as limited as real humans, physically. Snake, Zamus etc are exceptions, but SF characters can be just the right amount of non-realistic to pull off Smash's signature less-than believable style.

OK! Course, the same can be said about anyone...you could have even replaced the subject with Geno.

On that note, DK characters are a little too ridiculous. Give me a picture of K. Rool where he doesn't look like a doofus and I'll take the prospect seriously.

That's supposed to be his character. That's like saying "I can't take the Joker from Batman seriously because he looks like a clown..." K. Rool is supposed to be a crazed doofus...that doesn't demerit his value. Villains don't all have to be Ganondorf-esque. His whole schtick is that he's literally demented. To say K. Rool can't be taken seriously (you never stated in your post whether or not you wanted him in SSB4...you chose your words carefully) because he's "a doofus" is like Sakurai's mentality that "an Animal Crossing character wouldn't work because they don't fight..."

 

[gantrain05]

it doesn't matter if she "doesn't use a staff anymore" she DID so its possible, ganondorf uses a sword now....he still doesn't have one. your just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[ZlinkLGZ]

I had high hopes for King K. Rool to be in brawl. Whether or not he is a doofus isn't the point. he is the nemesis of DK, he is as necessary as any of the others villans like DeDeDe or Wolf.

 

[espio87]

I have an idea for the new and improved stage builder

1. Timed based activities eg: Lava rising, F-zero cars racing through, heck possibly delfino plaza like platforms to take you to another location.

2. AS you progress and unlock characters, you will stumble apon new part packs. But they arent ordinary part packs, because just say you beat classic with luigi, you will get a super mario themed pack with pipes with piranhas in it, many themed blocks and shy guys in karts racing around.

3. breakable objects: i remember the preview of ssbm and there was a pic of bowser in hyrule temple being smashed by peach, in the pic it looked like he just got smashed through the pillar but truely didnt. So in it will be breakable pillars, stones, platformers and even things that can die like a fire flower burning a tree.

4. 4 tracks on 1 stage: Each stage should have at least 4 music tracks to choose from, with ajustable frequencys(as in how often it will be played)

but my next idea is so epic other people probably would have thought of it aswell
next post coming...

I like that idea. Personally, I would like to have background objects to put in the stage. That way we can reproduce Hyrule Castle perfectly. Also, to be able to put trophies like background objects.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I wish there were a chance of Banjo-Kazooie, but since they're Rare-ware now, it looks pretty slim. Oh well. It's just some great potential lost right there. I gave up completely on them (far too late) when I heard they were having a game on the 360.

Yeah ever since Microsoft bought the Rare company, I pretty much forgot about Banjo and Kazooie for any new Smash Bros. titles.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Also, to be able to put trophies like background objects.

That'd actually be a fun idea for stage builder.

 

[DekuBoy]

MARIO SERIES

Mario, Luigi, Peach (with Toadsworth), Bowser, Toad

OTHER MARIO SERIES

Yoshi, Wario, Donkey Kong, Diddy, K.Rool

ZELDA SERIES

Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, other major character

METROID SERIES

Samus/ZSS, Ridley

POKEMON SERIES

Pikachu, Jigglypuff, PKMN Trainer, Mewtwo, other PKMN

KIRBY SERIES

Kirby, Metaknight, Dedede

STARFOX SERIES

Fox, Wolf, Falco

FIRE EMBLEM SERIES

Marth, Ike, Roy

MOTHER SERIES

Ness, Ninten, Lucas

OTHER SERIES

Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon, Mr. Game and Watch, Captain Olimar, Lip, Diskun, Tom Nook, Stafy, Captain Rainbow, Ray Mk, Pit, Sukapon, Balloon Fighter, ROB, Saki, Little Mac, Snake, Sonic

Yes, a lot of focus is on getting some of Nintendo's smaller long existing franchises in.

 

[drag0nscythe]

People need to stop cutting characters. There is nothing wrong with keeping Lucario and brining back All that was cut in melee. It was a really bad idea to cut all those out of brawl anyway.

 

[BKupa666]

Hamm​

Hamm is a wise-cracking plastic piggy bank, who, while behaving impertinently at times, can always leave the toys in stitches with a well-timed one-liner. As the series progresses, Hamm showcases his extensive knowledge of real world technology and construction, helping the toys out of a handful of dire situations.

Statistics​

Fall Speed: 6
Power: 6
Size: 6
Weight: 6
Aerial Movement: 4
Jumps: 4
Movement: 4
Traction: 4

Hamm has clear-cut above and below average categories, but despite his good overall stats, Hamm's close-range damage-racking options are very limited. Because he's not very physically adept, Hamm will want to play a more strategic battle, from a mid-to-long range. He has all the tools with which to do so stored conveniently in his plastic body. Of course, Hamm can only hold a limited quantity of each item, so there's a lot of strategy as to how to made do with what he's got in order to come out on top.

Specials​

Neutral Special - Building Block
Hamm removes his cork and pulls out a wooden lettered building block, which expands in size to about half that of a Stage Builder block as it leaves Hamm's body. He then places it on the ground in front of him; this process takes approximately .15 second. Although any character can attack the block to push it around, only Hamm can pick it up and throw it as an item. The block also serves as a small platform. A single block deals 5% and a bit of stun.

Now, what would be appealing about just one block? Hamm has thirteen building blocks stored for use in his body. And they're called building blocks for a reason; Hamm can stack them up to assist him in various ways during a match. He can camp from behind a tower of blocks, set up two block walls to cage in opponents, or set up a structure and knock it down on an opponent. If he wants to set up a larger structure, Hamm will have to take to the air and drop blocks beneath him, or set up more blocks as a perch from which to construct his tower.

On this last option, this is the primary way Hamm will be scoring KOs. The more blocks he adds to a structure, the more damage and knockback it deals as it comes crashing down (takes about .2 second to collapse). A tower will fall when a character runs (or is launched) into it, or when it is attacked. If a tower is attacked, it won't damage the attacker, but will inflict damage on anyone else it falls on. Each block in a tower deals 5% as it comes down. You need at least two blocks in order to knock a tower down. With two blocks, this move KOs around 140%; for each additional block in the tower, this KO percentage moves down by 5%.

After a tower is knocked down, the blocks lie in a pile; Hamm can pick blocks out of this pile for reuse. Hamm can press B again while holding a block to stow it safely in his slot, it diminishing in size as it reenters Hamm's body. If you're not using a block, you'll want to put it away to prevent characters from knocking it offstage, upon which it vanishes for the rest of Hamm's stock (all structures vanish once he's KOed). Although you have some room to make mistakes with thirteen blocks in tow, you'll want to keep as many blocks at your disposal as possible, giving Hamm more construction supplies with which to play around.

Down Special - March of the Toy Soldiers
Hamm extracts a green army man from his body, placing it on the ground with .2 second lag, where it marches toward the nearest opponent at Mario's walk speed, stopping over them. Army men are Pikmin-sized, and pop foes lightly up into the air, dealing 6% in the process. They cannot be destroyed by attacks like Waddle Dees, but they can be knocked back, and they are launched at least a fair distance by most attacks, due to their tiny weight. Because they stand on top of opponents who dodge, hitting them when they return into the foreground, opponents will have to attack the army men to defend themselves.

Hamm can send out a total of eleven green army men at a time (they vanish after he loses a stock). If you just send your soldiers marching at a character, they might land a hit or two, but your opponent will easily knock them away. A much better course of action would be to trap an opponent between two block walls, before unleashing multiple army men on them. Send out enough army men in a small enough space and your opponent will have trouble hitting them past the walls, while the soldiers will find it easier to land a hit on an enclosed foe. If just one army man connects with multiple men out, you'll essentially create a floor of damage as the army men wait under the falling character, moving to hit them back up as they fall. Hamm can also capitalize on the army men hitting characters upwards with Side Special.

Side Special - Coin Barrage
Hamm rolls onto his head and begins shooting various coins out of his slot, rapid-fire style. These travel Final Destination's length before vanishing; the closest comparison to this move would be a horizontal Bullet Seed, although Hamm's stream of coins is about twice times as wide as Ivysaur's seeds. Hamm can hold this move out, suffering .2 second ending lag as he rolls back upright. The coins cannot be aimed, so you'll have to stand on a block tower on the same level as your target, if they're not on your level to begin with.

The coins deal damage at about the same rate as Bullet Seed; they can be escaped from fairly easily on the ground, but can give opponents trouble in the air, where the stream is wide enough to trap them for a while. Good for Hamm, because he can only use this move for a total of nine seconds per stock. Because this is his number one ranged damage-builder, Hamm simply cannot throw out this move whenever he desires. To prevent characters from escaping on the ground, Hamm can set up a block wall and launch at them like a one-man firing squad. If he's got army men out, he can take advantage of their vertical knockback by peppering foes with currency in the air. He should limit close-ranged use of this, however, as the coins' priority isn't enough to keep foes from attacking Hamm out of the move.

Up Special - Pig Pile
Hamm yells the move name, as he bounds upwards before crashing down on his arse, with the intent of slamming onto his opponent. During the .3 second startup, Hamm can either direct this move upwards, jumping forward only a Battlefield platform but going up three Ganondorfs, or forward, rising only one Ganondorf but moving 3/4 of Battlefield horizontally. If he lands on a foe in the air, he brings them down to the ground with him, before slamming them, dealing 12% and burying them in the ground.

Hamm can recover fairly well with this move. He can also pop a foe up with soldiers, then slam them back down and bury them in the ground for the soldiers to overlap with and damage repeatedly. Because Hamm's jumps aren't that impressive, he can use this as a boost to bound over a block tower, to camp from the other side. Make sure you secure your tower first, or you may knock it over yourself as you jump to the other side!

Grab and Throws​

Grab - Tape
Hamm extracts a piece of scotch tape and holds it forward, hoping to get an opponent stuck. If he does, he'll hold them in front of him with one hoof. Hamm has .1 second startup lag, and a .3 second cooldown time. From a dash, Hamm slides on his belly holding the tape, getting about half a Battlefield platform more range, but suffering .35 second end lag.

Now, Hamm's grab isn't just for opponents. If he grabs next to a tower of blocks, he'll begin taping the blocks together, taking .1 to tape together each block in the structure. This prevents the blocks from being knocked down by attacks (although attacks can still push the structure around; Hamm will want to tape together structures that he doesn't want falling on him. For example, tape together any tower you plan on trapping an opponent against, to ensure a mere projectile won't collapse it on you instead. When he does wish to collapse it, Hamm can grab the tower again, which causes him to remove all the tape holding the blocks together, with the same lag it took to tape them together.

Blocks taped together are still items, albeit heavy ones (ala Bonsly or Wario's bike) that deal 5% per each block in the structure, starting at 10% with two blocks. These deal moderate horizontal knockback that KOs starting at 150%, and drops 10% for each block in the tower. Hamm cannot carry and throw structures with more than five blocks.

If you grab without catching an opponent, Hamm will remove the piece of tape form the roll and stick it to the ground. The tape covers about half the area of a Stage Builder block. Characters other than Hamm who walk over it get stuck, and must mash out with grab difficulty. The real use here is to tape items to the ground, namely blocks and army men. If Hamm places a block on a piece of tape, he won't be able to pick it up, but no attack will push it around. For an extra secure block structure, place the foundation on tape, then tape the rest of the blocks together. Hamm can place tape in the path of soldiers to get them stuck in place; they'll lose their ability to follow opponents, but won't be constantly knocked around by enemies. Since you have eleven soldiers, you may want to divide them between marching after a foe and being taped in place as an annoyance. Hamm can remove tape from the ground, freeing any objects held there, by crouching and grabbing next to it.

Pummel - Rip
Hamm slowly peels the piece of tape off his victim, so as to prolong the pain. This deals 5% to victims, releasing them directly in front of Hamm and stunning them for a split second due to the pain. While this appears to be blatant chaingrab fodder, Hamm's piece of tape loses its stickiness after three grabs, making the stun so minimal that the opponent can easily interrupt Hamm once they're released. Even with the second grab, the damage decreases by 1% because of less stickiness. Still, with three guaranteed grabs, Hamm can both rack some damage at close range (something he has trouble doing otherwise), and push characters in one direction (maybe knock them into a block tower for a KO?).

Forward Throw - Tackle
Hamm lunges at his opponent, them rolling over and over as they travel forward. Hamm can button-mash to prolong the roll, while the victim can do the same to attempt to stop it. The victim takes 4% per second they're rolling. Hamm can use his three pummels, then tackle an opponent toward a pile of blocks. He'll take damage if he rolls into a tower, though, so leave this as a last resort and try to knock characters that way first. If Hamm rolls his opponent over a piece of tape, the victim will get stuck on it.

Back Throw - Hog-Tied
Hamm quickly uses his scotch tape to bind his victim's arms and legs, preventing them from attacking for a second. Characters can button-mash to free themselves from their sticky binding, with slightly harder than grab difficulty. Until they do so, characters have a much higher probability of tripping when they try to move. This not only gives Hamm a little time to set up a tower, but prevents the victim from knocking down the tower, unless they want to self-destruct by walking into it.

Down Throw - Porker Pound
Hamm jumps up and sits on his opponent's head, pounding them into the dirt. This deals 9% in the process. Although Hamm can bury an opponent in front of a block tower and knock it onto them, characters aren't knocked out of the ground by attacks (like DK's Melee Headbutt). Because of this, you'll have to time your collapse of the tower if you want to use it for knockback. Wait long enough for your victim to escape, but not long enough for them to perform a dodge once they're out.

Up Throw - Wrestler Lock
Hamm sits while holding his victim's arms in a wrestling hold, dealing 7%. His opponent basically serves as a meatshield during this time, although they can mash away with a bit more than grab difficulty. Hamm can hold characters in an enclosed space being patrolled by army men, to try and get them juggled by the floor of damage. If a tower is about to collapse on him, Hamm can also grab a victim and use this, ensuring they take the damage and knockback instead.

Basic Attacks​

Basic Combo - Pork Chop
Hamm performs a quick chop with his hoof at close range, with minimal startup lag, but a .3 second cooldown. His chop deals a surprising 8% and knockback that KOs around 195%. This is a prime melee attack for giving Hamm some breathing room, which he would prefer, considering his incompetency in close combat.

Dash Attack - Swine Roll
Hamm jumps a short distance off the ground before performing a somersault, moving forward a Battlefield platform and a half over .5 second. Hamm has a hitbox on this move as he jumps and on his roll; at close range, this move hits twice, each hit dealing 5%, the second of which can KO around 170%. Hamm's jump can carry him over traps if he times the input correctly. Hamm's dash attack is a great option with which to lunge into a block tower before your opponent, if you're both racing to do so.

Forward Tilt - Snout Snort
Hamm extends his snout and snorts like a pig, creating an invisible pushing effect in front of him, with .2 second lag starting and ending. This 'push' deals no damage, but forces foes back from Hamm, like a horizontal Game & Watch U-Air. If you hit Hamm's snout point-back, a weak hitbox deals 5%, and enough set knockback to hit the victim into the push. Aside from staying true to Hamm's pushy personality, this is another option with which to knock characters into block towers. He can also push traps or items out of his way if necessary.

Down Tilt - Pot Belly
Hamm lifts his frontside up and slams it to the ground, like Bowser's D-Throw, but barely faster starting up. Characters who are hit take 10% and are left in their prone position. They can now rise, roll either direction, or use a get-up attack. If Hamm can use D-Tilt next to a tower of blocks, then take a step back, he essentially forces his opponent to either knock the tower down with the get-up attack or a roll in its direction, or try and get up safely without doing so, giving him an opportunity to charge and land a Smash.

Up Tilt - Pog Juggle
Out of Hamm's slot rises a trio of cardboard pogs, spinning in a circle as if being juggled by some invisible force. Hamm launches these pogs up with .45 second lag, making this his slowest tilt yet. However, it's easily his best for damage-racking. Characters who hit the pogs are stuck in their multiple hits until they DI out, taking about 1-2% per pop.

The kicker about this move is that Hamm can keep his pogs 'juggling' as long as he wishes, being able to cancel it by dodging. He can move while a foe is trapped in the juggling pogs, as well. Like F-Throw, this is a great last-ditch option with which Hamm can manually walk foes into a tower. He can also use this as a damage-builder, although he'll have to snag a victim out of the air to hit with it, limiting its use.

Smashes​

Forward Smash - Cork Cannon
Hamm clenches his belly button, putting enough pressure on his cork to launch it out at opponents. The cork deals 12-16% and horizontal knockback that KOs around 140%. The cork is launched one to two Battlefield platforms in front of Hamm, before it falls to the ground and becomes a throwing item that deals the same amount of damage and knockback as it did when shot, when thrown.

Characters cannot hit Hamm with his own cork (it merely pops back into his belly if you try), but they can peg other characters in a FFA...or they can throw it off an edge. If Hamm loses his cork, random items will fall out of his empty hole when he's hit by a strong attack, for thirty seconds (after which a new one appears). These random items include blocks and soldiers, making them harder to defend, as well as piles of coins (these lessen the time Hamm can use Side Special). Hamm can grab his cork and crouch to put it back in its rightful place. To prevent the loss of his cork, Hamm will want to use this Smash only when his victim will be launched far enough to be unable get to the cork first and dispose of it.

Down Smash - Stomach Suction
Hamm faces forward, quickly removing his cork from its hole; his open belly button gains a vacuum effect after he does so. The power, duration, and range of the suction varies, based on charge time. Without charge, the suction lasts for half a second, and is as strong as Kirby's Inhale, a Battlefield platform in front of Hamm. At maximum charge, however, the suction reaches out 3/4 of Final Destination, lasts for about a second, and is a bit stronger than Dedede's Inhale.

If Hamm pulls in an opponent, he'll launch them from his belly button like with F-Smash, dealing identical damage and knockback, depending on charge time. Because this one-sided Smash leaves Hamm's upper half and backside rather vulnerable, however, you probably won't be using this to attack all that much. Instead, Hamm can suck in items he's left onstage, including blocks, soldiers, and pieces of tape, storing them into safety. Although he cannot suck in blocks that have been taped together, the suction will still move them toward Hamm. You'll be relieved to hear that the suction has no effect on structures that lack tape; since the suction deals no damage, the towers will remain upright, although they do sway precariously as the suction hits them.

Up Smash - Gum Wrapper
Hamm fires a small silver gum wrapper, all balled up to be Deku Nut-sized, up out of his slot one to two Ganondorfs, before letting it fall back in. The move lasts up to .65 second; Hamm cannot move until his wrapper reenters his body. Characters who hit the wrapper take 6-9% and an incredibly minuscule amount of upwards knockback. Because the knockback is so pathetic, gravity's pull affects the victim more quickly than most moves, sending them spinning back toward the ground. If you've got army men patrolling an enclosed space below an aerial victim, allow this to be their ticket into the soldiers' clutches.

Aerials​

Neutral Air - Money Shake
Hamm shakes his body around, dealing a pathetic 3-4% at point-blank range. In the process, several coins are shaken out of Hamm's slot, falling to the ground below in a Wario-sized cluster at a moderate speed. In the air, the coins deal multiple hits of 1% and a bit of stun; once they land, the coins cover a Battlefield platform's space, tripping characters who walk over them. Hamm can have three areas of coins out at a time; each takes a second off his Side Special, and when opponents trip on the coins, they vanish. Hamm can always use D-Smash to suck up coins that haven't been tripped over yet, though. If Hamm has used all nine seconds of Side Special, no coins come out of Hamm as he shakes.

You may find it advantageous to have Hamm short-hop this move to get coins onto the ground quicker. Since it's harder to get foes to trip over a trap set next to a tower (the dual danger means they'll be more set on staying away), Hamm is best off laying the coins in an area advantageous to them, forcing them out of their comfort zone and closer to his tower. He can also just drop them onto a foe, stunning them while airborne and tripping them before they can recover from the stun, by which time Hamm can intervene with Side Special or a Smash.

Forward Air - Toy Rocket
Hamm launches a Pikmin-sized foam rocket out of his slot, which proceeds to hone in on the nearest opponent at Wario's dash speed. Hamm suffers .35 second startup and ending lag, and more if he lands; range is essential for launching your rocket. The rocket deals a surprising 17%, but only a bit of stun.

The priority of the rocket is top notch, however, and it lasts for up to five seconds before vanishing. A great strategy for Hamm is to launch a rocket at a character whose back is to a tower. They'll have trouble dodging in such close quarters for five whole seconds, and may be forced to take its damage if they don't want to knock over the tower. Even if they try to attack the tower down to get more dodging room, the rocket is fast enough to hit them before their ending lag is completed. One rocket can be onstage at a time.

Back Air - Twist and Shout
Hamm quickly extends his hooves and spins twice, ending the move facing in the opposite direction. His spins deal 6% and fair knockback each. Although hefty landing lag prevents Hamm from short-hopping B-Air to throw off opponents, he can do so much more safely in the air. Because he turns around after spinning, he can follow up on the opponent by sending a rocket after them while they're close enough to Hamm for it to be a threat.

Up Air - Super Slot
Hamm's slot enlarges quite a bit after .3 second startup. If a character comes into contact with Hamm's back, they fall into Hamm's body, and must mash out, with grab difficulty. Hamm can fall down with his victim inside him, and can even drop to a suicide KO if necessary. If he hits the ground with a victim, they're automatically released, taking 9%. You won't be jumping around above your towers, so you can't just capture a foe and drop into one. Instead, Hamm should use this and D-Air to remove characters from the air, where they're safe from collapsing towers.

Down Air - Bank Bonk
Hamm slams his bank area below him with .4 second startup lag, dealing 12% and spiking characters with moderate force. This is essentially Hamm's downward answer to U-Air; both clear the air of opponents at close range. And the positioning doesn't stop there, either.

If Hamm shorthops this move, he'll suffer .45 second landing lag, but create a small shockwave that travels three-fourths of Final Destination, dealing 5-6% and knocking characters into the air lightly. These shockwaves can pop characters into the air, prepping them for being hit with coins, just like soldiers. Speaking of which, send a shockwave after soldiers and they'll pick up the pace, moving at Mario's dash speed until the shockwave fades away.

Final Smash​

Final Smash - Freeze Frame
Hamm extracts the large camera from the end of Toy Story 2, and takes a picture with it, stunning all opponents onstage with the flash. They are stunned for ten seconds, or until attacked, so during this time, Hamm can set up multiple block towers to his liking. If he needs to build damage, set up a taped tower to the opponent's back and fire away. If it's a KO he's looking for, build a tower next in front of a stunned foe and knock it down on them. Hamm cannot re-stun an opponent during this Final Smash, so be sure to make sure they only take damage when you want them to.

Playstyle​

Hamm's games all begin and end with his blocks. How he puts them to use plays a huge part in his matches, without exception. At the beginning of the match, you'll want to set them up based on which strategies you're going to use during your match. Your two largest damage-building tools are your coins and your army men; each have their own strategies that can be used both in tandem with blocks, as well as with each other.

When it comes to coins, Hamm has trouble using Side Special -without- blocks. One strategy is to simply create a structure out of blocks, then camp from behind it with coins. This strategy takes a bit of additional set-up, as the stream will be too high to hit characters in most cases. To get them into the range of the coins, Hamm will want to send out a combination of soldiers and D-Air shockwaves to pop them up. A multitude of faster soldiers is more difficult to dodge, and opponents may end up being too preoccupied by the soldiers to dodge the shockwave. If they do try and dodge, a soldier will hit them up anyways, so it's win-win for Hamm. Against characters with projectiles, however, he'll need to tape his fortress together before camping.

Another strategy involves setting up a block wall to the victim's back, before firing coins at them. For this strategy to work effectively, you'll want to tape together the blocks you're using as a brick wall. It won't do you any good for your tower to collapse after your opponent is pushed into it, right? Your opponent will be trying to stay away from the block wall once it's up; to keep them around, Hamm has a several tools at his disposal. He can send soldiers at them, slowing them down by forcing them to attack, stick them to the ground with a piece of tape, or trip them with N-Air coins.

Soldiers can be a great option for building damage as well. They can pursue foes valiantly, but will likely need some help, either from you or from additional army men, due to their light weight. As stated earlier, it's harder to hit away multiple soldiers, especially if they're sent at you alongside a D-Air shockwave. However, if Hamm isn't intending to camp to build damage, his best option is to trap the opponent and soldiers between two taped block walls. Now, the opponent can't DI out, and the soldiers can't be hit out as easily. You can also try taping them down if this somehow becomes a problem. Hamm himself can bring characters back to the ground with moves such as Up Special, U-Smash, U-Air and D-Air, although this should be saved as a last resort.

Now, all these strategies are fine and dandy, but they don't mean squat unless Hamm can, you know, get up the block structures needed to pull them off. Never fear; Hamm sacrifices good close-range combat for decent spacing moves. Jab, F-Tilt, and F-Smash all push foes away nicely, while pieces of tape, D-Tilt, N-Air's coins, B-Throw D-Throw temporarily disable opponents. A combination of any of these can give Hamm enough time to get up a secure tower. The structure itself isn't highly important, but as a rule of thumb, you'll want tall towers as walls, and small towers to camp from behind. You can add blocks onto these to make them more effective for KOs.

When it comes to KOs, the larger tower you can knock onto an opponent, the better. If you've built enough damage earlier, though, you can make do with a tower of pretty much any size. To ensure that the tower lands on an opponent, or that they don't knock it over for you, Hamm will have to take matters into his own hands. He'll want to keep these towers all taped up until it's time to knock them down, upon which he can strip off the tape. Your opponent will know what you're about to attempt at this point, so Hamm will have to become more aggresive. He can simply knock a victim into a tower with moves such as jab or F-Tilt. Hamm can also trap characters between himself and a tower, using the likes of D-Tilt or F-Air. If all else fails, he can simply carry them into a tower himself, holding them with his pummel, F-Throw or U-Tilt.

All throughout the match, Hamm will want to keep track of how many blocks and soldiers he's deployed, as well as how many more seconds he has to shoot coins. You only really have to worry about blocks once a tower has been knocked down, as opponents are free to knock the blocks offstage once they're in a heap. This is when you'll want to distract them with army men and place the blocks back into Hamm's slot. Blocks should always be your number one priority, if you're forced to choose. Once your blocks are safe, you can suck up soldiers or N-Air coins with D-Smash.

Hamm's vast knowledge of construction really comes in handy when he has to build towers, but remember, the towers themselves don't damage foes. Hamm has to remain constantly vigilant, ready to put opponents in his line of fire for spacing, secure his towers, defend his soldiers, and bring his structures crumbling down on enemy heads. He's got a lot to look after, for sure. Once Hamm can build reliable structures, he can be played as a much more liberal character, due to all the ways towers can help him strategically. He brings a part of the Stage Builder into matches, for crying out loud!

Extras​

Up Taunt - Misplaced Cork
Hamm's cork comes out, spilling a few coins onstage. He rapidly turns his body away from his opponent, requesting, "Nobody look until I get my cork back in!"

Side Taunt - Soldier's Distaste
Sarge comes out of Hamm's slot, yells, "You are an absolute disgrace!" to the other characters, before ducking back in.

Down Taunt - Kung Fu
Hamm strikes a pose and calls out, "You heard of kung fu? Well, get ready for a pork chop!"

Entrance - Corvette
Hamm enters the stage, by driving in with a blue toy corvette. He comments, "Now that's -style-!", before hopping out. The car drives away on its own, as Hamm strikes a pose.

Victory Pose #1 - Dollar Bill
Hamm encounters a dollar bill on the stage. His eyes turn into dollar signs, as he picks up the bill, kisses it, and slides it into his slot contentedly.

Victory Pose #2 - Block Throne
Hamm is seen reclining on a throne built from his building blocks. Several soldiers stand on blocks around him, saluting him for leading them to victory.

Victory Pose #3 - TV Remote
Hamm is seen mashing a television remote to flip through the TV channels quickly. He seems very unconcerned about his victory, and more focused on finding his favorite station.

Loss Pose - Clap
Hamm sits on his behind and claps with a grimace on his face, still sore over losing.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

OTHER SERIES

Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon, Mr. Game and Watch, Captain Olimar, Lip, Diskun, Tom Nook, Stafy, Captain Rainbow, Ray Mk, Pit, Sukapon, Balloon Fighter, ROB, Saki, Little Mac, Snake, Sonic

Yes, a lot of focus is on getting some of Nintendo's smaller long existing franchises in.

Actually, your roster is pretty decent, but this section is kind of off. It includes characters that have already been disconfirmed (Balloon Fighter, Sukapon, Tom Nook, arguably Little Mac) and a few that are incredibly odd choices (Diskun? He has even less moveset potential than Falcon, Fox, or ROB.)

But overall you do something right that a lot of people don't - you don't clog up the roster by adding lots of characters from the series more established and you don't make unnecessary cuts.

People need to stop cutting characters. There is nothing wrong with keeping Lucario and brining back All that was cut in melee. It was a really bad idea to cut all those out of brawl anyway.

Well, maybe not all (do we need both Young Link and Toon Link?) but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of them back in the future.

 

[majora_787]

Ok, you and me, Ridley vs Krystal, soon as it's out!

You're on.

Anyway...Ganondorf NOT using a sword after using it SEVERAL times in his games is not the same as Krystal USING her staff after using it in only ONE of her games a long time ago.

K. Rool may be a doofus, but I could say the same about King Dedede. King DDD is just more sane about it.

 

[YagamiDark]

Issac from Golden Sun.

 

[WolfCypher]

I like Ike being the token heavy swordsman. Does Ganondorf really need to use his sword, so much as he needs needs NEEDS to be decloned from Captain Falcon? Take Ganondorf's moveset and give it to Black Shadow.

I've been thinking about ways the change the character's moves around just a little for the sake of having a more accurate portrayal of them. Examples:

Mario: Have a Luma appear above Mario's head after using the Mario Tornado (Super Mario Galaxy)
Donkey Kong: Make his running attack into his roll (Donkey Kong Country); change his Up B special into a Barrel Cannon Launch (All Donkey Kong Country games)
Peach: Change her generic parasol's design into Perry (Super Princess Peach); give her a Final Smash based on one of her emotions (Super Princess Peach)
Diddy Kong: Team him with Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country 2)
Pit: Just change the names of his specials so they actually reference the games (Arrow of Light, Wings of Palutena)
Ganondorf: Declone him completely
Fox, Falco, and Wolf: Different Final Smashes. At least one of them (Fox or Falco) should have a Final Smash that has to do with Arwings; if Wolf's Final Smash is still going to be cloned, then have it involve Wolfens, the clones of Arwings.
Ike: Take away the Fire effects...that's Roy's thing. Also, Give Ike his projectile.
Ness & Lucas: Oh, boy...give them their real moves...Ness and Lucas (I actually don't know about Lucas...never played Mother 3) have so much to offer. Ness can PK Teleport and PK Rocking, Lucas has his signature PK Love.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm with you on more accurate portrayals. Here are some I have in mind:

Ike: Make him more like he is in the original games. From what I've heard, he's anything but a heavy swordsman.
Samus: Make her B semi-spammables, chargeable, and yellow. Change her Final Smash where her armor DOES NOT fall off since this never happens in the Metroid series.
Bowser: Use his Koopa Car for recovery.

 

[majora_787]

I'm with you on more accurate portrayals. Here are some I have in mind:

Ike: Make him more like he is in the original games. From what I've heard, he's anything but a heavy swordsman.
Samus: Make her B semi-spammables, chargeable, and yellow. Change her Final Smash where her armor DOES NOT fall off since this never happens in the Metroid series.
Bowser: Use his Koopa Car for recovery.

I agree with the Charge Shot...

1. Tap B for heavy rapid-fire.
2. Hold B to charge it up and make it stronger.
3. Make it yellow like it alwas has been.

Kthxbai.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

You're on.

Anyway...Ganondorf NOT using a sword after using it SEVERAL times in his games is not the same as Krystal USING her staff after using it in only ONE of her games a long time ago.

Several might be an overstatement. He's only used it twice (even if "twice" is most of his Zelda appearances) and he's used his hands and feet (or just hands?) about as much if you count cutscenes. In his original appearance, he never used swords anyway, so I don't know why everyone thinks he has to have a sword. To be honest, his Falcon moveset fits him more than a slow-swordsman type thing.

He does need to be a little more original (I think one or two of his specials should be changed - maybe to something that reflects the "dark wizard" aspect of his character, and he has way too many normals shared with Falcon) but the people who expect him to be totally decloned are getting their hopes too high. Smash is like a fighting game, after all, and it's not so common for characters to get completely revamped movesets.

Ness & Lucas: Oh, boy...give them their real moves...Ness and Lucas (I actually don't know about Lucas...never played Mother 3) have so much to offer. Ness can PK Teleport and PK Rocking, Lucas has his signature PK Love.

I know this has nothing to do with the point you're making, but if their movesets were accurate to the games, they'd be almost just as similar as they are now. Rockin and Love are basically the same attack.

I think a line has to be drawn between "what's accurate to the original games" and "what's good for gameplay", though. To use the above example, Ness and Lucas's PSI in Mother consist almost entirely of support abilities (their only PSI attacks are Rockin and Love), and some of the things are pretty drastic character changes (giving Diddy a partner, taking Ganondorf away from his moveset that already represents him pretty well despite being unoriginal, and although Ike isn't really heavy and slow in his game, making both him and Marth accurate might be getting into "similar character" territory).

 

[Meta-havv]

Cranky Kong as an assist trophy!!!!

 

[Big-Cat]

I think a line has to be drawn between "what's accurate to the original games" and "what's good for gameplay", though. To use the above example, Ness and Lucas's PSI in Mother consist almost entirely of support abilities (their only PSI attacks are Rockin and Love)

Actually, it's possible to still use what they can use in their own games and taking minor liberties.

Ness:

B: PK Flash
Same as before, but it should explode when time is up like in Melee

Side B: PK Rockin'
Same as the PK Fire Ness has used this whole time. Except, Ness shoots a ball of a bunch of shapes, but it still goes down in a pillar.

Down B: PK Paralysis
Works exactly like Zamus' Down Smash A except it the range is a Ness-width longer.

Up B: PK Teleport
Ness opens a worm hole underneath and disappears. Then, a worm hole opens facing the direction chosen by the player and Ness flies out of it. Anyone hit by Ness while he flies out will suffer an attack like PK Thunder 2.

Final Smash: PK Rockin' Omega
Ness makes a guitar out of PSI and starts playing either Pollyanna, Bein' Friends, Pokey Means Business, or the Hippie Battle Theme (which one doesn't matter, it's an easter egg). While playing, various shapes fly out of the guitar and hit anyone close enough.

Lucas:

B: Salt Water Gun
Takes out a water gun that is automatically charged and shoots it for knockback and some damage. Note, the gun recharges on its own over time.

Side B: PK Love
Shoots the attack like he does PK Fire and has the same knockback.

Down B: PK Counter
Lucas casts a protective barrier around him that acts like a mini Franklin Badge. Lucas can only have three barriers. at a time. Like R.O.B.'s Up B, this takes a while to charge completely after use.

Up B: Hinawa's Pigeons
The spirit of Lucas' mother takes the form of three pigeons that hold onto Lucas. These pigeons will pick Lucas up and Lucas can move side to side while rising.

Final Smash: PK Love Omega
Lucas creates a giant ball of PK Love and tosses it out in front of him. The attack can go through any stage and inflicts enough damage to kill.

See, not too hard.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Those are pretty solid ideas, actually. I really doubt they would make big changes like that, but those are very cool.

One nitpick, though - in the Japanese game, PSI Rockin is actually PK Fighting Spirit, so it wouldn't make sense for it to have anything to do with a guitar.

 

[Big-Cat]

I guess you're right. Then the attack would have to be executed differently.

 

[WolfCypher]

Actually, it's possible to still use what they can use in their own games and taking minor liberties.

Ness:

B: PK Flash
Same as before, but it should explode when time is up like in Melee

Side B: PK Rockin'
Same as the PK Fire Ness has used this whole time. Except, Ness shoots a ball of a bunch of shapes, but it still goes down in a pillar.

Down B: PK Paralysis
Works exactly like Zamus' Down Smash A except it the range is a Ness-width longer.

Up B: PK Teleport
Ness opens a worm hole underneath and disappears. Then, a worm hole opens facing the direction chosen by the player and Ness flies out of it. Anyone hit by Ness while he flies out will suffer an attack like PK Thunder 2.

Final Smash: PK Rockin' Omega
Ness makes a guitar out of PSI and starts playing either Pollyanna, Bein' Friends, Pokey Means Business, or the Hippie Battle Theme (which one doesn't matter, it's an easter egg). While playing, various shapes fly out of the guitar and hit anyone close enough.

Lucas:

B: Salt Water Gun
Takes out a water gun that is automatically charged and shoots it for knockback and some damage. Note, the gun recharges on its own over time.

Side B: PK Love
Shoots the attack like he does PK Fire and has the same knockback.

Down B: PK Counter
Lucas casts a protective barrier around him that acts like a mini Franklin Badge. Lucas can only have three barriers. at a time. Like R.O.B.'s Up B, this takes a while to charge completely after use.

Up B: Hinawa's Pigeons
The spirit of Lucas' mother takes the form of three pigeons that hold onto Lucas. These pigeons will pick Lucas up and Lucas can move side to side while rising.

Final Smash: PK Love Omega
Lucas creates a giant ball of PK Love and tosses it out in front of him. The attack can go through any stage and inflicts enough damage to kill.

See, not too hard.

Love em, Love em, Love em! Especially Ness! Since I never played Mother 3, I'll have to take your word on Lucas...

 

[flyinfilipino]

If Samus was to get her Ice Beam, how would it work (what command)?

 

[Big-Cat]

Maybe it can be her Forward Air A. Instead of the poofs of fire, she shoots mid-range projectiles (think the original Metroid) that have a freezing property.

 

[Clone Z]

I can care less about who gets in or who's a clone or not. Nintendo does a decent enough job with that.

Right now, I'd be more concerned about gameplay. Even casual Brawl was dumbed down a bit. And by the looks of it, Nintendo's focus on the casual audience means that the gameplay will be dumbed down even more.

 

[WolfCypher]

I can care less about who gets in or who's a clone or not. Nintendo does a decent enough job with that.

Right now, I'd be more concerned about gameplay. Even casual Brawl was dumbed down a bit. And by the looks of it, Nintendo's focus on the casual audience means that the gameplay will be dumbed down even more.

As long as SSB4 doesn't require the Wii Fit Board, Miis, or is aimed specifically for 40 year old parents, SSB4 can't be the worst of the series.

 

[Booseter Seat]

I don't know if anyone else ever noticed this, but I always thought there was a drastic change from SSB64's Menu Music to Melee's, and of course, to Brawl's. I mean, going from noises here and there with occasional two second drum beats in the back, all the way to loud, booming, Nobuo Uematsu music, I think it's safe to say there's a huge change. I always enjoyed the vague music in SSB64, though. It gave the game a certain feel or something...Anyway, has anyone else ever noticed this?

 

[flyinfilipino]

I don't know if anyone else ever noticed this, but I always thought there was a drastic change from SSB64's Menu Music to Melee's, and of course, to Brawl's. I mean, going from noises here and there with occasional two second drum beats in the back, all the way to loud, booming, Nobuo Uematsu music, I think it's safe to say there's a huge change. I always enjoyed the vague music in SSB64, though. It gave the game a certain feel or something...Anyway, has anyone else ever noticed this?

Yeah, I guess they decided to refine the series and give it somewhat atmosphere of its own with all the intense music. There's still a little bit of the old charm here and there.

 

[Black Hole CO]

i think they layed it on real thick with the smash main theme, and all the opera music, to me it doesn't really suit the series, but it could be worse, and with the enormous amount of good music in the game, im not about to complain.

 

[majora_787]

Yeah, I guess they decided to refine the series and give it somewhat atmosphere of its own with all the intense music. There's still a little bit of the old charm here and there.

I hope they don't try to multiply BRAWL'S music. That would be like doing another SSE. WAY too much time spent.

But I do love fighting to the intense music, the SSB64 music never really had my attention the way it does in Brawl. I mean before I hardly knew there was music, now I'm like "Oh my god, it's not ___".

EDIT: WolfCypher, the image you placed in my mind with that post will give me so many nightmares. I will never sleep again if you don't stop. PLEASE.