[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[hippochinfat!!]

The Forbidden 7 are:
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Dr. Mario
- Dixie Kong
- Plusle & Minun
- Toon Zelda
- Toon Sheik

Roy was also one of two of the Forbidden 7 to have a unique victory theme planned, meaning he was probably among the last two to be dropped.

They were still all probaly dropped very early in development.

 

[Chief Mendez]

The Forbidden 7 are:
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Dr. Mario
- Dixie Kong
- Plusle & Minun
- Toon Zelda
- Toon Sheik

Roy was also one of two of the Forbidden 7 to have a unique victory theme planned, meaning he was probably among the last two to be dropped.

There we go. So I missed two.

I could...maybe see Doc coming back, but only because he's an exact replica of Mario, and is acceptable that way, so the only work they'd need to do on him is a model and a few physics tweaks.

But I still don't follow the Roy thing. Every Mario character in Brawl shares the same victory theme. Same for Fire Emblem characters. Roy would've had the same diddy that Ike and marth share, so that's point's moot, I'm afraid.

EDIT - What hippochinfat!! said. In the Iwata Asks things, or...well, somewhere, Sakurai said that the roster was finalized in '05. In other words, the roster was basically the first thing to be settled on. The only addition was Sonic, in like, '07, but that's obviously a special case.

Boy, Roy sure isn't looking so hot now, is he Trite?

 

[ChronoBound]

There we go. So I missed two.

I could...maybe see Doc coming back, but only because he's an exact replica of Mario, and is acceptable that way, so the only work they'd need to do on him is a model and a few physics tweaks.

But I still don't follow the Roy thing. Every Mario character in Brawl shares the same victory theme. Same for Fire Emblem characters. Roy would've had the same diddy that Ike and marth share, so that's point's moot, I'm afraid.

*shakes head like Phoenix Wright

Sakurai was planning on giving every character an unique victory theme.

Edit: Objection: Samurai's statement contradicts the game's coding. In the coding there is an unique victory theme for every character on the roster with the addition of Mewtwo and Roy. However, there is one character that is absent. Wolf. Since every chatacter but Wolf was planned to have a victory theme, that means Wolf was added after Sonic.

 

[Chief Mendez]

*shakes head like Phoenix Wright

Sakurai was planning on giving every character an unique victory theme.

Well, he didn't.

And regardless, my last post trumps this train of thought anyhow. The roster was among the first things to be decided upon, so it's not like Roy barely got in or anything. They probably had a makeshift roster with him in it around the start of development, but kicked him out during the time planning stages.

Anyway, it's been real, Trite, but I think it's time to call it a night. Besides, I just finished my seventeenth cup.

EDIT - On to eighteen, I suppose.

Anyway, that doesn't necessarily tell us anything. Sonic's his own character, so of course he has his own personalized victory tune--there aren't any other Sonic characters to deny that.

Disregard all that, though, as this is a really, really flimsy thing to argue about. We don't know when the entire 38-character roster and personalized victories were set in stone/altered, and we probably never will. I mean, what if the first "final" roster was 37, without Wolf, but he was added two weeks later, a day after personalized victory themes were cut? You or anybody else can't prove otherwise, so...

As far as I'm concerned, this doesn't have much bearing on Roy anymore. Pursuing this line of reasoning is just going to end with much butthurt.

EDIT - Okay seriously I'm getting the f*ck off my computer now. I really, really need to sleep.

 

[ChronoBound]

Well, he didn't.

And regardless, my last post trumps this train of thought anyhow. The roster was among the first things to be decided upon, so it's not like Roy barely got in or anything. They probably had a makeshift roster with him in it around the start of development, but kicked him out during the time planning stages.

Anyway, it's been real, Trite, but I think it's time to call it a night. Besides, I just finished my seventeenth cup.

Objection!

*presses hands on desk

Looks like you should have taken one more cup.
Sakurai said in an interview that there were features that he wanted to put in but couln't due to time constraints.

We can infer that Sakurai had them in at some point due to some comments he made in Famitsu regarding Diddy. In it, he said that he originally planned for Diddy to tag along with Dixie, however, his team could not get it to work. How would Sakurai's team know how that a Diddy & Dixie tagteam would not have worked unless his team actually programmed her in the game. Also, Dixie was not mentioned in the Diddy victory file listing. This means that Mewtwo & Roy were playable in some form even later in development than Dixie.

 

[luigi_jesus]

i think they should add a harvest moon character!

 

[hippochinfat!!]

i think they should add a harvest moon character!

"Needs moar cowbell" is the only response you'd get when asking for tips to play him/her.

 

[luigi_jesus]

haha yeah

 

[teen-robot]

harvest moon isn't really a fighting game is it?
if ray would be in
they should do the classic first one XD would represent the beginning of the series
and WTF character would be diskun
and we don't know anything about ssb4
so then every charcter would be possible i think
discuss...
and real charcters should be unknown or retro characters...
they are a piece of nintendo's history

 

[Steelia]

harvest moon isn't really a fighting game is it?

No... but neither is Mario or Sonic or Pikmin, really.

Well, so this post doesn't go to waste in this topic, still wanting Mewtwo for SSB4. C'mon, Mewtwo...

 

[Big-Cat]

Every Mario character in Brawl shares the same victory theme. Same for Fire Emblem characters. Roy would've had the same diddy that Ike and marth share, so that's point's moot, I'm afraid.
?

I don't think he would have the same one if the files are what they suggest. Look at Meta Knight, he's the only character with a unique tune compared to Kirby and Dedede. It's likely that his is still in because Sakurai mentioned it way back and the decision to cut the personal tunes was made after that announcement. Obviously Sakurai couldn't turn back on what he said so Meta Knight's stayed intact.

Anyway, on the subject of the WTF character, it should be Action ******* AKA Captain Rainbow.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Personal tunes would have been nice, and quite possible....

Anyways, if K. Rool is in 4 (which he better), i thought of a final smash!

Two metal orbs drop down on either side of the stage, and once they touch the edge, a "pitfall" effect goes into play, causing all other players to zoom straight down and though any platforms that might be blocking their path. After another couple of seconds, the two orbs glow and emit a thick electrical current that travels between the two. this does a loooooooooooooot of damage, and keeps the victims in, the the star fox bomb (forgot name) or Halberd laser. It doesn't have great knockback, but will mke it easy for K. Rool to smash away his opponents. This originated in DKC3 (donkey Kong country 3), and K. Rool used it to trouble the kongs, making instant death assurable if they touched the floor....

 

[Chief Mendez]

We can infer that Sakurai had them in at some point due to some comments he made in Famitsu regarding Diddy. In it, he said that he originally planned for Diddy to tag along with Dixie, however, his team could not get it to work. How would Sakurai's team know how that a Diddy & Dixie tagteam would not have worked unless his team actually programmed her in the game. Also, Dixie was not mentioned in the Diddy victory file listing. This means that Mewtwo & Roy were playable in some form even later in development than Dixie.

Emphasis on the "infer".

Or it could be that that interview got garbled crossing over into English. It could be that Dixie never made it past the conceptual stages, and it was the *concept* the team couldn't get to work.

Still though, I'm willing to admit that Roy perhaps may have possibly been maybe a smidgen more intended than most of the other seven, but I can totally chalk that up to something: both he and Mewtwo were vets, which wouldn't have required nearly as much work as a new character like Dixie or Plusle & Minun. So hypothetically, those of the 7 that were actually new were cut first, while Roy and M2 stayed in longer because the team figured they could still squeeze in those two--and the more the merrier, despite the character.

Okay anyways, this isn't all you have going for Roy though. Let's have something else...

Anyway, on the subject of the WTF character, it should be Action ******* AKA Captain Rainbow.

He doesn't fit the descriptor. By "WTF" character, I mean a character who hasn't had a game in decades, and who's innately linked to old Nintendo hardware.

I still support the good Captain, I just don't think he'd be the WTF character.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Bleh. I'm a little bit late to the party.

1. Mewtwo
2. Roy (with a completely decloned moveset)
3. Ridley
4. K. Rool
5. Black Shadow (or Goroh)
6. Ray (the model will be the one from the most recent Custom Robo)
7. Little Mac
8. An Advance Wars character.
9. Paper Mario
10. Mega Man

Would you object if no characters were cut from Brawl and if these were the only newcomers?

I would object to Roy, Little Mac, and the Advanced Wars character.

Roy- Don't get me wrong, I love Roy. His game just wasn't popular enough to keep him in. Ike was newer, and chances are we'll get FE12 by the time SSB4 is even announced. Chances are, Ike will be cut from Brawl.

Little Mac- K. Rool would have his moveset, and DK needs a new rep. Little Mac makes an excellent AT though.

Advance Wars- The series isn't popular enough. Don't get me wrong, that would be completely awesome, but it's just non popular enough.

The additions I would make to your roster are Isaac from Golden Sun, Baby Mario Bros. as an IC like team (Paper Mario could also fit this), and Krystal, because the staff would bring a unique moveset.

 

[darkserenade]

I'd like to ask you something, Chief Mendez.It was never confirmed that Pra_Mai was Plusle and Minun. It was also thought that this referred to 'every character'. Before you ask, think about what so many people wanted. Custom movesets. What character does the Wii have? A Mii. I'd like to know why everyone thinks it's Plusle and Minun. Before you say that you could never imagine a Flame Choke on another Mii, it's probable that this is one of the reasons it was cut. Just theory, anyway, but I love a good debate.

 

[SmashChu]

Does Pra_Mai mean something else? It was assumed to be Plusel and Minun since those were the start of the Japanese name. It COULD mean something else, but what exactly are you implying?

 

[Chief Mendez]

Does Pra_Mai mean something else? It was assumed to be Plusel and Minun since those were the start of the Japanese name. It COULD mean something else, but what exactly are you implying?

What he said.

Also I have no idea what a Flame Choke is, so it's hard for me to imagine it on anything, really.

Advance Wars- The series isn't popular enough. Don't get me wrong, that would be completely awesome, but it's just non popular enough.

It's more popular (and has more games) than Custom Robo. So if that's your only reasoning, then you'd better come down on Ray too.

Black Shadow too, come to think. F-ZERO's nowhere near as popular as Advance Wars. The series has more games than Fire Emblem, to boot.

AW is one of the only unrepp'd franchises that Nintendo owns. It needs this.

 

[darkserenade]

I just want a good reason. Any child could easily, when reading the list of characters,think that Luigi isn't Mario's brother, but rather, the 2nd generation ledgendary of Pokemon. I want to know why this one is different, and until Sakurai explains the Forbidden 7(which I doubt he ever will), the world may never know. Edit:Flame Choke is Ganon's >B, Chief Mendez. Anyway, I just want a nice debate. By the way, (this question is directed to ChronoBound), do you intend for Plusle and Minun to be in your roster?

 

[ChronoBound]

I just want a good reason. Any child could easily, when reading the list of characters,think that Luigi isn't Mario's brother, but rather, the 2nd generation ledgendary of Pokemon. I want to know why this one is different, and until Sakurai explains the Forbidden 7(which I doubt he ever will), the world may never know. Edit:Flame Choke is Ganon's >B, Chief Mendez. Anyway, I just want a nice debate. By the way, (this question is directed to ChronoBound), do you intend for Plusle and Minun to be in your roster?

They were in at an earlier point of "development". However, now they are no longer in. I am sorry.

 

[SkylerOcon]

y.It's more popular (and has more games) than Custom Robo. So if that's your only reasoning, then you'd better come down on Ray too.

Black Shadow too, come to think. F-ZERO's nowhere near as popular as Advance Wars. The series has more games than Fire Emblem, to boot.

AW is one of the only unrepp'd franchises that Nintendo owns. It needs this.

Hrm... alright. That's actually a good thing. I love Advanced Wars, I just didn't think it was very popular.

 

[Deleted member]

Chances are, Ike will be cut from Brawl.

No, he won't.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I just want a good reason. Any child could easily, when reading the list of characters,think that Luigi isn't Mario's brother, but rather, the 2nd generation ledgendary of Pokemon. I want to know why this one is different, and until Sakurai explains the Forbidden 7(which I doubt he ever will), the world may never know.

So...you want to know why "Pra_Mai" means "Plusle & Minun"?

Is that it? Cuz' I'm still not totally following you.

No, he won't.

YA RLY

He's got more import than any other Lord besides Marth, his moveset is unique, and he fills a niche (heavy swordsman) that's otherwise blank.

 

[Big-Cat]

He doesn't fit the descriptor. By "WTF" character, I mean a character who hasn't had a game in decades, and who's innately linked to old Nintendo hardware.

I still support the good Captain, I just don't think he'd be the WTF character.

I don't think a WTF character has to be retro, just someone who'll surprise everyone. I mean, Ness who was arguably the WTF character of SSB and he didn't have a game for half a decade (and so did Samus) at the time. Still, I'm glad you support the captain. I just realized that if he and Captain Syrup get on the roster, we'll have four captains in the game.

BTW, Teen-robot, thanks for commenting on my video.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I don't think a WTF character has to be retro, just someone who'll surprise everyone. I mean, Ness who was arguably the WTF character of SSB and he didn't have a game for half a decade (and so did Samus) at the time. Still, I'm glad you support the captain. I just realized that if he and Captain Syrup get on the roster, we'll have four captains in the game.

Well, it's just "Olimar" on the character select screen...

Anyway, I too think of Ness as the WTF character of Smash 64 (it must've been three or four years before I actually found out what he was from), but I like to work with precedents when predicting stuff, and in this case, precedent tells us that the "WTF" character's going to be a part of Nintendo's early history as a videogame company, as well as a totally unexpected pick.

 

[darkserenade]

Lol, what if it was Cranky Kong? Don't take that suggestion seriously.Also, wasn't Jigglypuff considered that odd character? Pichu and Olimar are both subs for the real characters that fit that spot, too.
I want to go back to Tales of Subspace.

 

[ChronoBound]

I am probably one of the few people who owned EarthBound prior to Smash 64 and knew who he was upon unlocking him.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, it's just "Olimar" on the character select screen...

Anyway, I too think of Ness as the WTF character of Smash 64 (it must've been three or four years before I actually found out what he was from), but I like to work with precedents when predicting stuff, and in this case, precedent tells us that the "WTF" character's going to be a part of Nintendo's early history as a videogame company, as well as a totally unexpected pick.

Well, Ness is still a precendent and it's quite possible that both being retro w/ history and being unexpected are not BOTH required to be the WTF character. I think that it can be one or the other or even having a truly unique fighting style (think Voldo).

Lol, what if it was Cranky Kong? Don't take that suggestion seriously.Also, wasn't Jigglypuff considered that odd character? Pichu and Olimar are both subs for the real characters that fit that spot, too.
I want to go back to Tales of Subspace.

That Tales of Subspace conversation was pretty fun. Maybe you and I can PM gameplay details over time and we'll work on a storyline.

 

[Jokercrow]

I would like to dream a little bit with you guys. So here is the list of what I absolutely don't believe will happen but I dream of for the next Smash bros. :

New characters :

-Simon Belmont (Castlevania)
-Alucard (Castlevania)
-Mega Man (Mega Man)
-Bomberman (Bomberman)
-Silux (Metriod Prime Hunters)
-Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
-Black Mage (like Vivi in Final Fantasy)
-Krystal (Star Fox)
-Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim)
-Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)

New features:

-Ranking system
-Character maker
-Voice chat
-Team attacks and team help moves

Improvement:

-No online lags
-More options on the Stage Builder
-Faster control reaction (like in melee)
-More variety in the stage shapes
-Less ways to be killed by the stages

 

[Roihu]

I would like to dream a little bit with you guys. So here is the list of what I absolutely don't believe will happen but I dream of for the next Smash bros. :

New characters :

-Simon Belmont (Castlevania)
-Alucard (Castlevania)
-Mega Man (Mega Man) I still don't agree with data being in Brawl. x-x
-Bomberman (Bomberman) Want him in so badly...
-Silux (Metriod Prime Hunters)
-Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
-Black Mage (like Vivi in Final Fantasy)
-Krystal (Star Fox)
-Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim)
-Lara Croft (Tomb Raider) I don't get why you would want her in... She'd fit less than Snake.... or not...

New features:

-Ranking system Will probably never happen because of Sakurai.
-Character maker I was thinking along the lines of Mii.... but Character maker would be awesome, too.
-Voice chat
-Team attacks and team help moves Cool idea. Might be a bit complicated.... especially for newbies.

Improvement:

-No online lags I'm not sure but I heard they were removing that in December or something, right?
-More options on the Stage Builder And Wi-Fi.
-Faster control reaction (like in melee) Won't happen....
-More variety in the stage shapes Will definitely happen
-Less ways to be killed by the stages Really? I wanted more.

Yeah, opinions in bold. I liked many of them.

 

[Jokercrow]

Roihu'quote :
(I'm not sure but I heard they were removing that in December or something, right?)

Really ???
Do you have a link for me ? With some more information...

PS: Even if you don't agree with me for the stage that attack players, I find it cool to see different point of view. It help me understand those choices. : )

 

[mantlecore77]

I would like to dream a little bit with you guys. So here is the list of what I absolutely don't believe will happen but I dream of for the next Smash bros. :

New characters :

-Simon Belmont (Castlevania)
-Alucard (Castlevania)

-Mega Man (Mega Man)
-Bomberman (Bomberman)
-Krystal (Star Fox)

-Black Mage (like Vivi in Final Fantasy)

-Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim)

I'm not a huge Castlevania fan, but I could actually see it happening.
The Black Mage... I don't know. That would bring some troubles with the whole Square Enix owning the character, like they "own" Geno...

Spoiler

GENO FTW

Earthworm Jim... I think he'd be sweet, too, but I just don't think that Nintendo has legal rights to his character. Is this the issue or is it just me with some of these characters?
Megaman, Bomberman, and Krystal are three that I am totally for, as well.

New features:

-Ranking system
-Character maker
-Voice chat
-Team attacks and team help moves

If you mean an online ranking system, then I'm not sure. This would make online matches really rare for people who only go on to improve because nobody wants to face sucky people.

Character maker... I've heard this before. How about this to please two different parties: combine Miis with Character maker. I'm not saying that I'm all for the idea myself, but if they're gonna put Miis in SSB, then...

Make it so that you MAKE your Mii different than everyone else's Mii. You could make gives it different statistics (jumps, weight, height, etc.) AND give it different specials. i don't know, just a thought.

Improvement:

-No online lags
-More options on the Stage Builder
-Faster control reaction (like in melee)
-More variety in the stage shapes
-Less ways to be killed by the stages

Agreed... except for the stage shapes. If you mean huge, complex stages like the Temple, then I'm not so sure... if they had more CREATIVE stages with random shapes, various platforms and such, then sure. But I like simple stages. That's IMO though.

 

[Jokercrow]

I just saw a lot of cool stages made in the stage builder so it make me think there is still a lot of unexploited possibility...

 

[Chief Mendez]

Simon Belmont (Castlevania)
-Alucard (Castlevania)

Simon's a good contender, but Alucard has only been in...three Nintendo Castlevanias, and in none of those has he/will he be a main character.

Besides, it's a generally accepted rule around here that there will only be one third-party character per franchise/company.

-Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
-Black Mage (like Vivi in Final Fantasy)
-Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim)
-Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)

As for these, I would absolutely kill to have Ryu F*CKING Hayabusa in the game. And happily, there's really no other Tecmo candidates.

...Unfortunately, aside from Dragon Sword, the Ninja Gaiden series has generally stayed away from Nintendo consoles of late, although the majority of games in the series are on Ninty's platforms.

Black Mage...is an okay idea, except that he's just a generic class, not a specific character. Personally, I don't see any clear-cut obvious choices from Squeenix, and to be honest, that suits me just fine.

Earthworm Jim...meh. The games are awesome, but he's a really stereotypical American cartoon character, which I don't think fits in Smash Bros.

Lara Croft lol.

-Ranking system
-Character maker
-Voice chat
-Team attacks and team help moves

Improvement:

-No online lags
-More options on the Stage Builder
-More variety in the stage shapes
-Less ways to be killed by the stages

Ranking's never going to happen in a Nintendo game, Miis fit the bill for "create-a-character", voice chat's a given after WiiSpeak's been announced (at least with friends), team attacks...has been discussed at length in this thread, but I'm super-tired, so will not repost anything now.

You can't stop lag--it's impossible. Stage Builder does need an upgrade. The stages are fine as they are now--if you don't like the stage hazards, you can easily recreate almost any stage in the stage builder without them.

 

[mantlecore77]

I just saw a lot of cool stages made in the stage builder so it make me think there is still a lot of unexploited possibility...

I know what you mean.

Earthworm Jim...meh. The games are awesome, but he's a really stereotypical American cartoon character, which I don't think fits in Smash Bros.

That Earthworm Jim comment was what I was trying to think of before. Good reasoning.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

What worlds/areas would you all like to be visitable in a Smash Bros.-like game, with 3D 'adventurous' game play.?

 

[Collective of Bears]

I am probably one of the few people who owned EarthBound prior to Smash 64 and knew who he was upon unlocking him.

Most likely.

 

[mantlecore77]

What worlds/areas would you all like to be visitable in a Smash Bros.-like game, with 3D 'adventurous' game play.?

Dude I'm all over this idea.
But I'm so **** bored right now that I can't reply.
I will come back to EDIT my answer to your question.

 

[kainsword]

Completely declone Ganondorf, give all existing A attacks and B attacks to Black Shadow. Black Shadow was for a while the main villain of the F-Zero series and F-Zero deserves a villain rep. Besides, Black Shadow is a favorite in the USA because of the Falcon Punch video.

Falcon Punch -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw

Remake a completely new Ganondorf to use the Sage's Sword from Twilight Princess. Instead of broad sweeping strokes like Ike, Ganondorf will utilize a more stab oriented attacks, punches, kicks, and of course dark magic. However, if a new Zelda game is iterated before SSB4, then the model and moveset should be based on the new Zelda game.

Add Lyn or the future lord of the as of yet unplanned FE12 for a third FE representative.

Add Little Mac, but remodel the one used in Brawl. Stupidly enough, Sakurai must have thought that Little Mac was a buff boxer dwarf. The Little Mac character should be completely true to the original Punch-Out!! This means that Little Mac is about the same height and is slightly heavier than Marth. Little Mac can be considered a lightweight boxer who competed in the heavy weight championship in his game. Basically, Little Mac was outclassed as a boxer in the league he participated in. Little Mac should be on the weaker, but more combo oriented side. His Up B should be a signature uppercut which should be one of his more reliable killing blows.

Add either Dark Samus (Metroid Prime in disguise in the corrupted Phazon Suit) or one hunter. Dark Samus would be faster, but less powerful. Dark Samus would also not be a clone of Samus. Instead of Charge Shot, Dark Samus would use a Phazon Cannon. Hyper speed dash instead of missles. Screw Attack would be phazon powered and be a single hit, and Down B, I have no idea. Or, if the next Metroid storyline is developed, the new villain can be a possible SSB4 character. The Metroid Prime series ended with the third, which was released almost a year ago. It's likely that the next storyline is in production.

I also hope there is a single unlockable costume for each character in SSB4.

Mario: Dr. Mario (Dr. Mario series)
Luigi: Mr. L (Super Paper Mario)
Peach: Strikers/Golf/Tennis Uniform
Bowser: Rookie (M&L: Superstar Saga)

Wario: Original (Wario Land series)

Yoshi: Yoshi Hatchling (Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door)

Donkey Kong: Funky Kong (Donkey Kong Country)
Diddy Kong: ???
King K Rool: Kaptain K Rool (Donkey Kong Country 2)

Kirby: ??? (Not sure how this can work out, since Kirby would absorb and make new hats anyway. Perhaps access to a custom color Kirby feature, where you can custom color Kirby from a selection of colors?)
Meta Knight: Meta Samurai (Kirby Super Star or Quick Draw minigame)
-- Seen in the middle of these sprites: http://www.geocities.com/eight_ball_comics/metaknight.gif
-- Or Quick Draw: http://www.spriters-resource.com/nintendo/kirby/nmid/display.php?file=quickdraw.gif
King Dedede: Quick Draw Costume as seen in above link?

Pikachu: Pichu or Raichu (Tough to program, considering Pichu would make Pikachu's size smaller?) Possibly additional hats to choose?
PKMN Trainer: Female Trainer (Pokemon FireRed, LeafGreen)
Lucario: ???
Jigglypuff: Wigglytuff? (Tough, since Wigglytuff is bigger) Additional hats to choose?
Mewtwo: Armor Mewtwo (Pokemon: The Movie. The armor was theoretically used to restrain Mewtwo's power)

Samus: Zero Suit Samus (No more Final Smash shenanigans and armor throwing during matches?)
Dark Samus: ???

Link: OoT Link (Ocarina of Time)
Zelda/Sheik: OoT Zelda/Sheik (Ocarina of Time)
Ganondorf: OoT Ganondorf (Ocarina of Time)
Toon Link: ???

Snake: Old Snake (MGS4)

Just a few ideas for you guys to conisder...

 

[Blackimar]

Completely declone Ganondorf, give all existing A attacks and B attacks to Black Shadow. Black Shadow was for a while the main villain of the F-Zero series and F-Zero deserves a villain rep. Besides, Black Shadow is a favorite in the USA because of the Falcon Punch video.

Falcon Punch -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw

Remake a completely new Ganondorf to use the Sage's Sword from Twilight Princess. Instead of broad sweeping strokes like Ike, Ganondorf will utilize a more stab oriented attacks, punches, kicks, and of course dark magic. However, if a new Zelda game is iterated before SSB4, then the model and moveset should be based on the new Zelda game.

Add Lyn or the future lord of the as of yet unplanned FE12 for a third FE representative.

Add Little Mac, but remodel the one used in Brawl. Stupidly enough, Sakurai must have thought that Little Mac was a buff boxer dwarf. The Little Mac character should be completely true to the original Punch-Out!! This means that Little Mac is about the same height and is slightly heavier than Marth. Little Mac can be considered a lightweight boxer who competed in the heavy weight championship in his game. Basically, Little Mac was outclassed as a boxer in the league he participated in. Little Mac should be on the weaker, but more combo oriented side. His Up B should be a signature uppercut which should be one of his more reliable killing blows.

Add either Dark Samus (Metroid Prime in disguise in the corrupted Phazon Suit) or one hunter. Dark Samus would be faster, but less powerful. Dark Samus would also not be a clone of Samus. Instead of Charge Shot, Dark Samus would use a Phazon Cannon. Hyper speed dash instead of missles. Screw Attack would be phazon powered and be a single hit, and Down B, I have no idea. Or, if the next Metroid storyline is developed, the new villain can be a possible SSB4 character. The Metroid Prime series ended with the third, which was released almost a year ago. It's likely that the next storyline is in production.

I also hope there is a single unlockable costume for each character in SSB4.

Mario: Dr. Mario (Dr. Mario series)
Luigi: Mr. L (Super Paper Mario)
Peach: Strikers/Golf/Tennis Uniform
Bowser: Rookie (M&L: Superstar Saga)

Wario: Original (Wario Land series)

Yoshi: Yoshi Hatchling (Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door)

Donkey Kong: Funky Kong (Donkey Kong Country)
Diddy Kong: ???
King K Rool: Kaptain K Rool (Donkey Kong Country 2)

Kirby: ??? (Not sure how this can work out, since Kirby would absorb and make new hats anyway. Perhaps access to a custom color Kirby feature, where you can custom color Kirby from a selection of colors?)
Meta Knight: Meta Samurai (Kirby Super Star or Quick Draw minigame)
-- Seen in the middle of these sprites: http://www.geocities.com/eight_ball_comics/metaknight.gif
-- Or Quick Draw: http://www.spriters-resource.com/nintendo/kirby/nmid/display.php?file=quickdraw.gif
King Dedede: Quick Draw Costume as seen in above link?

Pikachu: Pichu or Raichu (Tough to program, considering Pichu would make Pikachu's size smaller?) Possibly additional hats to choose?
PKMN Trainer: Female Trainer (Pokemon FireRed, LeafGreen)
Lucario: ???
Jigglypuff: Wigglytuff? (Tough, since Wigglytuff is bigger) Additional hats to choose?
Mewtwo: Armor Mewtwo (Pokemon: The Movie. The armor was theoretically used to restrain Mewtwo's power)

Samus: Zero Suit Samus (No more Final Smash shenanigans and armor throwing during matches?)
Dark Samus: ???

Link: OoT Link (Ocarina of Time)
Zelda/Sheik: OoT Zelda/Sheik (Ocarina of Time)
Ganondorf: OoT Ganondorf (Ocarina of Time)
Toon Link: ???

Snake: Old Snake (MGS4)

Just a few ideas for you guys to conisder...

With what you said i would like to see Fire fighter costume for MG&W also a chef costume for him

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Idk about unlockable costumes, butall that you listed are good ideas, except maybe the pokemon evolutions (well still a good idea I just don't agree XD)

and mantlecore77, ok! also remember my idea for whisy woods I mentioned a few pages back/ Or was that someone else who commented on it..