[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Big-Cat]

My apologies. I was out of line there. I think the only reason I grouped you with him was your accessibility views then I realized that you two have your differences.

I hope this appears on other consoles as well. I downloaded it; I just wish they had an actual training mode. Thankfully, the developers have said that a training mode will appear on the next update (which is free).

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

You may not know this, but you never have to apologize to the Toise for anything ever.


Even if I'll probably never end up playing that game, there was a link to Chappelle on the sidebar so it's done nothing but good things for me.

 

[SmashChu]

Why am I not surprised you responded like that? I don't know what it is with you and Toise, but not everyone likes the really crazy stages and items because they feel they can't get anything accomplished. Trust me, I've seen people complain about a win or loss because of pure, dumb luck that someone got an item. Heck, look at the blue shell in MKWii and how a lot of people hate it.

Looking at sale data, people do.

One example I can give you is Sonic All-Star Racing. The game boasted no Blue Shell and balanced items. What happened was a very dry and unexciting game. Games are in the entertainment business, so excitement is their key selling point. To no surprise, the game didn't do that well.

Smash Brothers with "balanced stages," and no items is boring.

But knowing you, you'll just say those are hardcore gamers. What do you say about difficulty in games? Should they be stupid easy?

The problem is you mix up difficulty with accessibility. A game that is hard to learn is not fun to play. What I advocate for many games is to be simple. A game that is hard to get your hands around is not fun to play and dies at market (which happens to many fighting games not named "Smash Brothers."). You mix up a game being accessible with a game being easy.

 

[UberMario]

Yes but why would I care about that? Multiplayer is just meant to be bit of a laugh, what's it matter if I win or lose?.

Multiplayer gameplay is the whole reason Mario Kart is popular. >_>

Looking at sale data, people do.

One example I can give you is Sonic All-Star Racing. The game boasted no Blue Shell and balanced items. What happened was a very dry and unexciting game. Games are in the entertainment business, so excitement is their key selling point. To no surprise, the game didn't do that well.

There is a happy medium though, for example, Double Dash was chaotic, but the items were still balanced. (Spinies and lightning were rare, homing red shells, could be dodged, specials were difficult to avoid (like the Bowser Shell or the fireballs), but didn't result in race-ruining punishment by the person struck.

Smash Brothers with "balanced stages," and no items is boring.

True, there'd probably be a more happy medium for items if the spawning time took longer or was more noticable beforehand.

 

[ryuu seika]

Multiplayer gameplay is the whole reason Mario Kart is popular. >_>

I never said I had anything against it. Infact, my intent was to suggest the exact opposite. Having nothing to unlock, four player mode is a lot less infurating and actually somewhat fun.

There is a happy medium though, for example, Double Dash was chaotic, but the items were still balanced. (Spinies and lightning were rare, homing red shells, could be dodged, specials were difficult to avoid (like the Bowser Shell or the fireballs), but didn't result in race-ruining punishment by the person struck.

While I'll agree that specials were, for the most part, fair, Toad's super mushroom was not (I loved Toad because of it). The rest of the items, however, were not balanced. Green and red shells showing up equally often meant that a green shll was simply a waste of an item box while for no extra effort, the guy in fourth could easily decide the outcome of the race.
Some items were strictly better than others and the fact hat the best ones were rare means nothing as they required no extra work to get, only a little more luck.

 

[SmashChu]

There is a happy medium though, for example, Double Dash was chaotic, but the items were still balanced. (Spinies and lightning were rare, homing red shells, could be dodged, specials were difficult to avoid (like the Bowser Shell or the fireballs), but didn't result in race-ruining punishment by the person struck.

Interestingly enough, Double Dash is one of the worst selling Mario Kart games.

True, there'd probably be a more happy medium for items if the spawning time took longer or was more noticable beforehand.

Those solutions only create a new problem from trying to fix an imaginary solution. There is nothing wrong with items and people outside of Smash Boards advocate playing with all items. Items are fine. The players are wrong.

 

[ryuu seika]

Items are fine but they are also random and can be a major determining factor in whether you win or lose at Smash. It seems only logical that high level play should take place without them as losing a cash prize to an unlucky bobomb spawn would be incredibly rage inducing.

The last thing we need is people turning green and wrecking the venue.

 

[Big-Cat]

SmashChu, you seriously believe that there is a direct corelation between the balance of the items and the sales of a game?

 

[flyinfilipino]

SmashChu, you seriously believe that there is a direct corelation between the balance of the items and the sales of a game?

^Agreed; there are so many other factors to take into account. It's a stretch.

 

[DekuBoy]

Both Mario Kart and Smash Bros have the star appeal of having all the famous characters. This I believe is a huge sales factor.

Smash Bros is the Ocean's Eleven of videogames.

 

[Big-Cat]

Here's another thing I'd consider as well, how do the "casual players", and by that I mean people that don't look up reviews or videos online decide to buy or rent a game? I doubt you can tell how accessible a game is by looking at the cover or back of the game box.

 

[ryuu seika]

Smash Bros is the Ocean's Eleven of videogames.

Except with 30 more characters .

 

[DekuBoy]

I think you missed the point.

 

[ryuu seika]

I don't know a thing about Ocean's Eleven so of course I missed the point. I just wanted to make a bad joke.

 

[Life]

Ocean's 35?

 

[DekuBoy]

When I said Ocean's 11 I was referring to the ridiculous amount of A list actors in it. Similar to Smash Bros huge number of gaming icons.

 

[neowulf297]

Who would you pick?

http://vgtribune.com/smashpoll-1-your-3rd-party-choices/

I picked Travis because he was star of one of the few good non-nintendo titles on the wii.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Both Mario Kart and Smash Bros have the star appeal of having all the famous characters. This I believe is a huge sales factor.

Smash Bros is the Ocean's Eleven of videogames.

Sorta. The majority of the characters in Smash aren't actually that popular. I'm talking stuff like Samus and Fox. They could've done just as well if it was all Mario.

Of course Nintendo is cool enough to give us all these other guys and in terms of variety for a fighting game, it works out really well.

Here's another thing I'd consider as well, how do the "casual players", and by that I mean people that don't look up reviews or videos online decide to buy or rent a game? I doubt you can tell how accessible a game is by looking at the cover or back of the game box.

Advertisements and word of mouth. The former, if done right, shows fans what they already like and non-fans what might be something amazing. The latter I'm sure everyone is familiar with, although I'd be surprised if you guys knew how effective it is. Iwata talks a lot about the power of word of mouth, there are some good reads out there about it.

 

[SmashChu]

SmashChu, you seriously believe that there is a direct corelation between the balance of the items and the sales of a game?

Show me where I said that.

What I'm saying is that people want exciting matches. Tournament style of play is very dry and unexciting. The stuff the tournament players advocate for the game isn't going to help the game reach more people. People do not want better item spawn. They want better items.

 

[ryuu seika]

Ocean's 35?

There are actually 41 playable characters in the smash series by my count. 40 if you count Zelda as one.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Show me where I said that.

It's at the base of almost every single one of your arguments. When you're not busy bashing the competitive community for everything wrong with the world, you're trying to use some sales figure or a quote from Sirlin to back up your opinion.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I think I asked this a while ago, and if I did, oh well.

Suppose each series (or character in some cases) had their own songs for credits instead of just taking some stage song and playing it there. Or really ,any place outside of gameplay to stick in some songs (main menu, post-results screen, between matches in classic, etc.).

What kind of songs would you guys wanna see for that? And where would you like to see them?

 

[Big-Cat]

I think I brought it up before. Here are my choices:

For all intents and purposes, this will not include possible newcomers.

Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Peach - This could easily also apply to Toad.
Zelda
Sheik
Ganondorf
Samus
Zamus - You could switch either really. They suit each other.
Fox
Pokemon Trainer
Ness
Lucas - In other words, leave it as it is.

 

[mystery_dungeon]

My choices for character themes (that Kuma didn't beat me too):

Link
Toon Link
Captain Falcon
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

 

[UberMario]

I think I asked this a while ago, and if I did, oh well.

Suppose each series (or character in some cases) had their own songs for credits instead of just taking some stage song and playing it?

I'm pretty sure that people would be ****ed if they couldn't play the songs during battles, I know I was when I found out that you couldn't run the Metal Battle or Giga Bowser themes in VS., even after unlocking Battlefield and Final Destination.

 

[SmashChu]

It's at the base of almost every single one of your arguments. When you're not busy bashing the competitive community for everything wrong with the world, you're trying to use some sales figure or a quote from Sirlin to back up your opinion.

You provide no quote, so................

I never talk about item balance. Just that
1)Items can add depth (they are a part of the game)
2)Items can add excitement (as they can change the match quickly)

 

[flyinfilipino]

You provide no quote, so................

I never talk about item balance. Just that
1)Items can add depth (they are a part of the game)
2)Items can add excitement (as they can change the match quickly)

Very well, what are you arguing again? The competitive community doesn't include items in play, and this is bad why?

 

[Starphoenix]

Very well, what are you arguing again? The competitive community doesn't include items in play, and this is bad why?

He is entirely capable of speaking for himself but what he is saying is the rules in place for tournaments create matches that do not appeal to the general consumer. Items bring an element of dynamic interaction that is lost during 1v1 matchups. In a moment a well placed bomb or shell can change the entire momentum of a match. Final Smashes being allowed can also balance out characters weakness' or poor matchups.

This problem is further exacerbated by Brawl's combo-less mechanics in place which make those matches far less entertaining than in Melee. That is what I infer he means by "dry".

 

[flyinfilipino]

He is entirely capable of speaking for himself but what he is saying is the rules in place for tournaments create matches that do not appeal to the general consumer. Items bring an element of dynamic interaction that is lost during 1v1 matchups. In a moment a well placed bomb or shell can change the entire momentum of a match. Final Smashes being allowed can also balance out characters weakness' or poor matchups.

This problem is further exacerbated by Brawl's combo-less mechanics in place which make those matches far less entertaining than in Melee. That is what I infer he means by "dry".

I understand that point of view completely, and have no issues with it. In fact, three years ago, I would have been arguing the same thing. But I asked what was inherently wrong with the fact that there are no items being used in competitive play. The point you brought up and what SmashChu is saying is that that ruleset generally doesn't appeal consumers, which is true, and I even agree. But the competitive community isn't forcing it on anyone. The competitive community is a minority. And that's not to say that the rest of the Smashing populaton enjoys using items regularly; there are plenty that don't for the same reason that competitive players don't enjoy using them in tournaments. You can argue why items are cool, or fun, or are part of the game, or whatever, but you're not going to succeed in winning the argument and changing the way tournaments are played. There is a reason for it and it has been reiterated clearly many, many times, in this thread, and the hundreds that came before it. So there's no use in arguing about something that won't be changed with any amount of debate.

 

[Vigilante]

I got nothing against itmes, so long as they are optional and fun to use. The thinf I dislike about Brawl's items is that most items are underwhelmingly weak or chaotic.

The hammer can lose its head, the smart-bomb, bob-ombm sticky bomb and deku nut can blow up inyour face while it appears at random... Not to mentiont hat some, like the screw attack are so small I can't even see them properly.

I'm not saying they should take off every chaotic items, just have less of them and replace some of the explosives by other items to get different effects.

I technically play without items most of the time, but I must take into account those who like items.

 

[MKOwnage]

More info about Meowth:

And Slowking:

Meowth I can definitely see. Its Slowking I dont understand.
What major roll has he played in the Pokemon franchise? And is he even among some of the most popular Pokemon?

 

[Shorts]

@MKOwnage

If you think about it, he is one of the few talking and pokemon, he was kind of important in Pokemon 2000, so at some point he was (sort of) important. I guess maybe he was less important, and just an intellgent and interesting pokemon. He really doesn't play that important of a role, but when you place him up against all 500 and something Pokemon, he does stand out a bit. I would be willing to be he is one of the top 100 most popular Pokemon.

That doesn't exactly mean he is smash worthy. Besides, I don't like how the artist says "similar to this person's move" even though I realize they aren't TRYING to make him sound like a clone.... I just picture the attacks looking like that.

 

[ryuu seika]

Not happy. Slowking Kirby would get the worst of his specials by far.

The upB is only simmilar in the randomness and the punch would probably end up more like falon punch.

 

[Flame Hyenard]

Not happy. Slowking Kirby would get the worstof his specials by far.

Indeed. Nothing can beat Falcon Kirby or even Ness Kirby *PK FLAAAASH !!*

 

[Thunder_slash]

I thought it, and I decided to include StarKiller from "the force unleashed" series as a character for ssb4. First check the moveset:

TILTS:

-neutral tilt: lightsaber slash(up to 3 times), third one moves starkiller a bit foward.
-foward tilt: foward slash(a bit stronger than neutral).
-up tilt: upward slash with 13% damage, good knockback.
-down tilt: slashes while ducking.

SMASHES:

- foward smash: single slash, medium knockback.
- up smash: just like marth´s, but with lower knockback and a bit more range.
- down smash: a spining slash of short range, but with very good damage and high knockback.

AERIALS:

-neutral aerial: normal slash with low damage but high knockback.
-foward aerial: a stab that does 20% damage, but hard to connect.
-up aerial: a slash above the sith, good damage but a bit low knockback.
-down aerial: a slash downwards, good knockback, low damage and can send victim downside.

GRABS:

- foward grab: throws the enemy and then a lighthing ball that always hits and has good knockback.
- backward grab: a simple throw backwards.
- upward grab: launches opponent up using force grip.
- downward grab: ganondorf´s choke, but without dash, less damage and of electric type.

SPECIALS:

- Neutral special: lighthing. launches rays like any sith. This ones cause 2% damage per second but without knockback, and its continous.
- Side special: Lightsaber throw. Throws his saber to an opponent straightly. Can be avoided, and has great knockback. 50% chances of reflecting attacks.
- Up special: Force dash. Dashes just like Fox, but without damage or knockback, more distance and can change dash´s direction like Lucario's Extremespeed, but always goes straight.
- Down special: Ground slam. Impact of the lightsaber in the ground, just like Bowser Bomb. Creates a waving area of effect of three blue alloy's bodies. Good damage and knockback.

FINAL SMASH: MAELSTROM

- The camera zooms for 2 seconds in the character and shows how he charges his power. After that, he launches a wave (just like Tabuu's off waves, but a very small bit slower) that deals 10% damage ans has a HUGE knockback. If you dont avoid, there is 70% of chances of losing a life.

KIRBY FORM: Kirby in The Apprentice's suit ,wearing black gloves and short brown hair.

Starkiller has good abilities, I think. Although he has some things in common with Marth, his gamestyle is unique. Post and be sincere plz.
Thanks.

 

[Vigilante]

How about stage modes? I'll explain. Let's say we take Mushroomy Kingdom.

One cpuld press a button while the cursor is over a stage and then a small window would appear, allowing the person to change the stage's mode. Changing modes could change the elements of the stage slightly. I'll give an example and explain myself after.

Mushroomy Kingdom:

Mode A: The stage operates as normal.
Mode B: The stage stays on World 1-1.
Mode C: The stage Stays on World 1-2.

Another:

Hyrule Castle N64:

Mode A: Operates as normal.
Mode B: Tornados are removed.

Another:

Halberd:

Mode A: Operates as normal.
Mode A: Stay on the plateform.
Mode C: Stay on the ship.
Mode D: Stay on the beginning area.

Just examples like this. It's simple and allows for control over random events. I'm thinking of both tourney players and non-tourney players of course.

 

[MFZBSonic500]

i care who is going 2 b in ssb4 but nintendo should let us have voice chat in the next ssb game cuz when they told us @ E3 last year about there new mic i think in the next ssb game they should put voice chat into the gane not just 4 friends also on tema battle and regular brawl and they shold put a online tourament 4 the online gameplay and make show r usednames for ssb4 and also show r ssb4 profile so they can add us as friends and not just ur town friends also ppl from all over the world as well i think this what they should do in the next ssb game

 

[mystery_dungeon]

i care who is going 2 b in ssb4 but nintendo should let us have voice chat in the next ssb game cuz when they told us @ E3 last year about there new mic i think in the next ssb game they should put voice chat into the gane not just 4 friends also on tema battle and regular brawl and they shold put a online tourament 4 the online gameplay and make show r usednames for ssb4 and also show r ssb4 profile so they can add us as friends and not just ur town friends also ppl from all over the world as well i think this what they should do in the next ssb game

BONUS
Bad Grammar: -1000 points

How to get: Post with bad Grammar.

 

[Life]

There are actually 41 playable characters in the smash series by my count. 40 if you count Zelda as one.

Brawl is advertised as thirty-five IIRC.
Add in Sheik and ZSS as separate characters and it's thirty-seven.
Count PT as three characters and it's 39.

Roy, M2, Pichu, Doc, YL make 44 if you wanna look at Melee characters that did not return in Brawl. (Did I miss any of these?)

 

[FrogButler]

I was asked to move the content of the Smash Poll going on at VGTribune right now to here so...

FROM THE OLD THREAD:

Hey everyone,

I haven't posted in a while but I saw that this has been spreading around like wildfire and I've yet to see a post about it so I figured I'd drop in and let you guys know.

So about three days ago on /v/, a guy posted a picture of himself with Sakurai and mentioned that he would be holding an interview with him during E3 to talk about Kid Icarus Uprising. However, during an open question portion of the interview, he would be allowed to ask Sakurai questions about the future of Smash. So, in preparation, he asked posters on /v/ for character suggestions.

Well long story short, people were accusing him of being fake so he time-stamped and posted a picture of his E3 badge and stated that he would be holding a series of polls on VGTribune in order to compile a short list of characters to show Sakurai during the latter portion of his interview. First would be a 3rd Party Poll and a First Party poll where the Top 8 would move on to final poll to narrow down the list of finalists to 10 characters to show to Sakurai during the interview.

This erupted into a massive thread about possible 3rd Party inclusions and then the poll went up and a ton of people voted. Voting on the first poll ended yesterday and the Top 8 were Megaman, Travis Touchdown, Geno, Banjo-Kazooie, Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Django and Bomberman.

So, right now, the first party poll is going on and 1000+ people have already voted.

They are also accepting write-in votes in the comments section of the poll if your favorite character is not listed.

So yeah, I wasn't sure if you guys were aware of this but the fact that the results of these polls will be shown to Sakurai during his GDC interview is exciting enough and it's easily the closest the community is to suggesting who should be included in the next game, despite the fact another game isn't even announced yet.

So, take it for what you will but I thought you would all like to know.

Here's the link to the current first party poll: http://vgtribune.com/smashpoll-2-you...party-choices/