Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Bones0]

Alright so I'm new to the smash community. I just picked up melee this year. So I have a question:

I've got wave dashing and shffling down pretty consistantly, but where do I go from here to make myself a better player?

I don't really have a "main" yet. I'm just playing different characters and exposing myself to different play styles .

Dashdancing is huge, but beyond that it's kind of necessary to narrow your character selection down to at most 2-3 characters. Once you do, you can begin developing character-specific skills and strategies. The biggest thing most new players focus on is what they are doing wrong. If you play a good player, there are usually a ton of fairly obvious habits you have that are getting you destroyed. Maybe you always roll or always jump in a certain situation, but figuring out what situations you get punished in and replacing them with alternatives is great. From there, you can start optimizing your alternatives to find what's effective as possible.

 

[gravy]

During which frame do I have to input DI? I'm trying to do tas stuff. Is it right as hitlag ends?

 

[gravy]

During which frame do I have to input DI? I'm trying to do tas stuff. Is it right as hitlag ends?

 

[Bones0]

During which frame do I have to input DI? I'm trying to do tas stuff. Is it right as hitlag ends?

The last frame of hitlag.

 

[SAUS]

I am cool with the question and answer, but I think it should be worded "By which frame do I have to input DI?" or something like that. For some reason, it just kind of sounds like you have only 1 frame to input the DI - which I guess is technically, and absolutely correct - but you don't have to be frame perfect or anything. You just have to be holding the stick the way you want to DI before hit lag ends, but still holding it that way AS hit lag ends.

I'm just being picky...

 

[gravy]

Ahh well since I was using this info for debug mode I did need to be frame perfect, hence my wording.

 

[Madolche ♦ Procione]

Tried to find info on these two terms, but couldn't find it in the 'Everything Thread'.
What is neutral game?
and
What is a parry?

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

If Yoshi shields at the exact frame a move is supposed to hit, he will "parry" which will allow yoshi to drop his shield without shield stun and attack instantly.

 

[Bones0]

Tried to find info on these two terms, but couldn't find it in the 'Everything Thread'.
What is neutral game?
and
What is a parry?

Neutral game is the general term for when neither opponent has a drastic amount of control over the stage. If you and your opponent are both equidistant to the center of the stage on the floor, then that would be considered "neutral". A lot of dashdancing and wavedashing, and to some extent, jumping, are all indicators of neutral game. Some people will be more lenient with their definition and will consider certain situations neutral when others may not. For instance, if one player jumps up to the top platform giving stage control to the other player, some people may not consider that neutral, but some people will. There aren't really any distinct boundaries because stage control is such a nebulous thing that you can't easily determine if someone is in a good or bad position.

Parrying refers to Yoshi's shield. When you hard-press a shield button with Yoshi, his shield doesn't appear until frame 8. The 7 frames before that, Yoshi is fully invulnerable, and during the first 6 frames he can jump to cancel the shielding animation. Yoshi players will often time their trigger press so the enemy's attack hits Yoshi while he is invulnerable, then immediately jump to counterattack (the egg shield never actually appears visually). The timing is quite strict, but Yoshi doesn't undergo hitlag while his opponent does, and the opponent's attack cannot hit Yoshi after hitting his invulnerable body so it is a powerful tactic when used properly. Here is V3ctorman demonstrating multiple parries in a row in his combo video.

If Yoshi shields at the exact frame a move is supposed to hit, he will "parry" which will allow yoshi to drop his shield without shield stun and attack instantly.

That is wrong. >_>

 

[tbowyer]

As someone who has literally never played smash but a couple times with friends, how exactly should i start getting into the scene? I've searched for groups around my area (didn't really find any), and all I have to play against is the computer. I guess I'm just wondering about the progression from being a noob to somewhat competent. Do people just really practice against CPUs until they go get obliterated at a local tourney then rinse/repeat? I'm coming from SC2, where I could get on and easily train 3-6 hours against real people immediately. I really enjoy competitive gaming, but I kind of feel discouraged from the start with melee due to the no internet play :/

 

[ManoxMano]

Ask on Smashboards for people in your region. You can also utilize the Smash subreddit for things of that nature, and on general facebook groups such as "Smash Social", or something like that.
But hey, it's your chance to make a scene, make use of it.

 

[Bones0]

As someone who has literally never played smash but a couple times with friends, how exactly should i start getting into the scene? I've searched for groups around my area (didn't really find any), and all I have to play against is the computer. I guess I'm just wondering about the progression from being a noob to somewhat competent. Do people just really practice against CPUs until they go get obliterated at a local tourney then rinse/repeat? I'm coming from SC2, where I could get on and easily train 3-6 hours against real people immediately. I really enjoy competitive gaming, but I kind of feel discouraged from the start with melee due to the no internet play :/

Check the pinned thread that lists FaceBook groups for each region and check for tournaments in Tournament Listings.

Practicing Melee on your own isn't like other games. Most games are just practicing inputs, and while that is a necessary and huge part of grinding Melee on your own, you can be MUCH more creative, even without enemies on screen. Just watch tech skill videos like "Perfect Dark" or "Beserker" for some inspiration. Combo videos can also give you awesome stuff to practice on CPUs.

Most people do not only play CPUs between tournaments. They connect with people in their region and play whenever they can. The more active regions, some people likely play human opponents nearly every day. I'm pretty much in the middle of nowhere, but I am still able to travel once every 1-2 weeks, sometimes more, to play people and practice. Having to travel for Melee definitely makes improving less accessible, but the game is so deep that I've always noticed WAY more areas in which I improve in playing a single Melee fest than, say, Halo, where I would play hours every night and not really be able to tell if I was improving because the skill gap just isn't as evident.

The best thing you can do is convince a friend who is already a competitive gamer (so you don't have to deal with scrub mentalities) to embark on your Melee journey with you. Having someone you can play often and is also around your level is great for improvement as well as enjoyment.

 

[Logicall]

I just recently purchased a white official Gamecube controller (about a month ago) and occasionally when I press down the Left trigger it feels like it has a grip beneath it if i do not press it down precisely straight it throws off my L cancel very often and I was wondering if it is just because its new or maybe I can put lubricant of some sort idk? For example, if I place my finger on the top part of the trigger where the L letter is and push it down so it presses against the bottom wall of the controller and I start to slide it down it feels like I have to put more effort into pressing it. Can it be a manufacturer defect?

 

[tbowyer]

I found a facebook group for georgia melee and was playing games against people in my city later in the same day. The internet is pretty awesome.

 

[Bones0]

I just recently purchased a white official Gamecube controller (about a month ago) and occasionally when I press down the Left trigger it feels like it has a grip beneath it if i do not press it down precisely straight it throws off my L cancel very often and I was wondering if it is just because its new or maybe I can put lubricant of some sort idk? For example, if I place my finger on the top part of the trigger where the L letter is and push it down so it presses against the bottom wall of the controller and I start to slide it down it feels like I have to put more effort into pressing it. Can it be a manufacturer defect?

I wouldn't worry about lubricant or anything until you open it up and figure out what's wrong (if anything). Honestly, it just sounds like you are pushing the back/bottom part of the trigger so that it doesn't go in normally. That is normal for all controllers. If it works perfectly when you push the trigger exactly parallel to the rest of the controller, then that's almost definitely the reason. With a little bit of conscious effort, you should just get used to pressing it at the right angle (pun intended).

 

[YellowBand]

i just read the SBR official tournament rules for melee and other rules as well. Why is it that on all of them it says

" For all Melee tournaments, use of the character Metaknight is banned."

..............this makes me so confused -.-

 

[Ecoh]

At what point would you recommend one to start participating in fests and the like? I am lucky enough to be in the Sacramento area so I know of the Sac Bi-Weekly; should I just throw myself in?

 

[Logicall]

With a 100% accurate response, does Mew2King mainly use the C stick for many of his moves when using (Marth) or does he use the control stick + A the most?

 

[AlphaQHard]

3 questions
1)Trying to Short hop fast fall L cancel with the Z button. do i do the the attack with Z and then press Z again to L cancel?
2) Is yoshi the only character that can parry?
3) im fox on the the ledge. i press jump why cant i do an attack or air jump? i see other chracters able to do it.

 

[YellowBand]

3 questions
1)Trying to Short hop fast fall L cancel with the Z button. do i do the the attack with Z and then press Z again to L cancel?
2) Is yoshi the only character that can parry?
3) im fox on the the ledge. i press jump why cant i do an attack or air jump? i see other chracters able to do it.

To answer question 3: what happens is that you press away or down from the stage and your preferred jump button to jump back on the stage/attack out of the jump. This is good for edge guarding but be careful when doing it since no input can cause the opposing player to grab the edge and thus help them in recovering. I'm just saying this cuz I see a lot of other new ppl (myself included at first) do an empty jump back on stage and get punished for it.

Edit

Also a quick input on question 1: I don't think it's too comfortable to attack and cancel with the same button. It just causes a lot of inputs for one button unneccesaryingly(?) imo, but if that's how you're comfortable playing, yes you do need to press Z for the attack and then Z again to cancel. Just a question and seriously not trying to be any type of judgmental to your play style: why use Z for multiple inputs?

 

[SAUS]

At what point would you recommend one to start participating in fests and the like? I am lucky enough to be in the Sacramento area so I know of the Sac Bi-Weekly; should I just throw myself in?

Right away :D Just don't expect to win, but also don't feel bad for losing. You will learn the fastest if you play with other good players. If you are still learning advanced techniques, they can help you out if you need it, and you will know what to practice for the next fest.

 

[Bones0]

i just read the SBR official tournament rules for melee and other rules as well. Why is it that on all of them it says

" For all Melee tournaments, use of the character Metaknight is banned."

..............this makes me so confused -.-

It's just to troll the barlw community.

3 questions
1)Trying to Short hop fast fall L cancel with the Z button. do i do the the attack with Z and then press Z again to L cancel?
2) Is yoshi the only character that can parry?
3) im fox on the the ledge. i press jump why cant i do an attack or air jump? i see other chracters able to do it.

1. You can do the attack with Z and L-cancel with Z or you can do the attack with A. If you are within 7 frames of hitting the ground, you can input the attack and L-cancel with the same press, but hitlag might delay it to make you miss the L-cancel so you'll have to get used to it. If you are set on Z-cancelling, I'd just advise using A for your attacks. It's already hard enough to maintain consistent L-cancels without also using the same button for the attack (as a side point, if you aerial with Z you won't be able to ever play Samus, Link, or YL).

2. Yes.

3. You can attack or double jump after a ledgejump, but each character has a different ledgejump so some characters can act sooner after doing one. Fox can definitely attack or jump before landing (if you're FD where platforms don't get in the way) so just get used to the timing. More importantly, don't use ledgejumps because they are awful with Fox and most characters anyway. You should learn to ledge hop by dropping off the ledge (back or down) and DJing on stage.

 

[AlphaQHard]

To answer question 3: what happens is that you press away or down from the stage and your preferred jump button to jump back on the stage/attack out of the jump. This is good for edge guarding but be careful when doing it since no input can cause the opposing player to grab the edge and thus help them in recovering. I'm just saying this cuz I see a lot of other new ppl (myself included at first) do an empty jump back on stage and get punished for it.

Edit

Also a quick input on question 1: I don't think it's too comfortable to attack and cancel with the same button. It just causes a lot of inputs for one button unneccesaryingly(?) imo, but if that's how you're comfortable playing, yes you do need to press Z for the attack and then Z again to cancel. Just a question and seriously not trying to be any type of judgmental to your play style: why use Z for multiple inputs?

thanks, but i meant press jump on the ledge not fall off it.
For Z cancelling i thought i would only have to press it once and it would do the aerial attack and L-cancel. Now that you told me i would have to press it twice then im strongly reconsidering using L or R to L-cancel.

It's just to troll the barlw community.
1. You can do the attack with Z and L-cancel with Z or you can do the attack with A. If you are within 7 frames of hitting the ground, you can input the attack and L-cancel with the same press, but hitlag might delay it to make you miss the L-cancel so you'll have to get used to it. If you are set on Z-cancelling, I'd just advise using A for your attacks. It's already hard enough to maintain consistent L-cancels without also using the same button for the attack (as a side point, if you aerial with Z you won't be able to ever play Samus, Link, or YL).
2. Yes.
3. You can attack or double jump after a ledgejump, but each character has a different ledgejump so some characters can act sooner after doing one. Fox can definitely attack or jump before landing (if you're FD where platforms don't get in the way) so just get used to the timing. More importantly, don't use ledgejumps because they are awful with Fox and most characters anyway. You should learn to ledge hop by dropping off the ledge (back or down) and DJing on stage.

Thanks, ive been going through this thread and seeing your answers for other peoples questions. I've learned alot.
1) Will probably use A and do L or R for L-canceling. i thought i would only have to do press z once and it would do the aerial attack and L-cancel at the same time.
2) cool
3) I'll definitely check out his ledgejump again. Yeah i know how to fall off the ledge and double jump on stage with an attack. I asked because i wanted another option for when on the ledge to mix it up.

 

[Bones0]

thanks, but i meant press jump on the ledge not fall off it.
For Z cancelling i thought i would only have to press it once and it would do the aerial attack and L-cancel. Now that you told me i would have to press it twice then im strongly reconsidering using L or R to L-cancel.



Thanks, ive been going through this thread and seeing your answers for other peoples questions. I've learned alot.
1) Will probably use A and do L or R for L-canceling. i thought i would only have to do press z once and it would do the aerial attack and L-cancel at the same time.
2) cool
3) I'll definitely check out his ledgejump again. Yeah i know how to fall off the ledge and double jump on stage with an attack. I asked because i wanted another option for when on the ledge to mix it up.

I would get in the habit of only light pressing L or R when you L-cancel so you don't waste your tech input. You can't spam L/R to tech, so if you L-cancel with a full press (the clicking part of the trigger) you might miss a tech right afterwards.

Yeah, ledgejump is just a bad option for most characters because of how laggy it is. Almost every time you see top players do it, especially with Fox, it is an accident. If you want another ledge option, you should learn to waveland onto the stage (ledgedashing). It will seem hard at first, but once you get it down pat, you can zoom from the ledge to pretty deep on the stage with invulnerability. Watch some of Leffen's videos from Apex 2014 to get an idea of how he likes to use it and you'll see how useful it can be.

 

[AlphaQHard]

I would get in the habit of only light pressing L or R when you L-cancel so you don't waste your tech input. You can't spam L/R to tech, so if you L-cancel with a full press (the clicking part of the trigger) you might miss a tech right afterwards.

Yeah, ledgejump is just a bad option for most characters because of how laggy it is. Almost every time you see top players do it, especially with Fox, it is an accident. If you want another ledge option, you should learn to waveland onto the stage (ledgedashing). It will seem hard at first, but once you get it down pat, you can zoom from the ledge to pretty deep on the stage with invulnerability. Watch some of Leffen's videos from Apex 2014 to get an idea of how he likes to use it and you'll see how useful it can be.

what do you mean tech? do you mean i will do the do shufflling and end up with my shield up?
I started to practice ledgedashing not long ago.

 

[YellowBand]

what do you mean tech? do you mean i will do the do shufflling and end up with my shield up?
I started to practice ledgedashing not long ago.

I think he means that in case you miss the l-cancel and/or get hit, you'll be able to tech outta the hit instantly.

 

[AlphaQHard]

I think he means that in case you miss the l-cancel and/or get hit, you'll be able to tech outta the hit instantly.

how will holding down the L or R trigger impede me from teching the hit? And let say i do lightly press the L or R button and i do get hit which buttons would use to "tech?"

 

[Chrome Smash]

Where can I buy a Japan white controller for a good price in Canada? Just getting into the competitive scene needing a responsive controller that has a longer cord

 

[Logicall]

Where can I buy a Japan white controller for a good price in Canada? Just getting into the competitive scene needing a responsive controller that has a longer cord

I do not believe you can buy legit controllers from local stores in the USA or Canada but I could be wrong since I do not live in Canada. Better to order an offical one from online than buy those ghetto third party ones, when they tell you its the same as the others they are lieing.

 

[Chrome Smash]

I do not believe you can buy legit controllers from local stores in the USA or Canada but I could be wrong since I do not live in Canada. Better to order an offical one from online than buy those ghetto third party ones, when they tell you its the same as the others they are lieing.

I found one for $40 CAD on eBay from a Japan user, would there be import fees if I ordered from that user?

 

[Bones0]

what do you mean tech? do you mean i will do the do shufflling and end up with my shield up?
I started to practice ledgedashing not long ago.

Teching is when you press L/R to quickly stand or roll after getting spiked into the stage (or simply tumbling downwards towards it). The game prevents you from spamming tech inputs. If you press L and collide with the ground within the next 20 frames, you will successfully tech. If you press L and collide with the ground from frames 21-40, you will miss the tech. You cannot repress the button before the 40-frame window is up or else it prevents you from teching for an additional 40 frames. If you L-cancel with a full press on your trigger trying to, for example, edgeguard Fox's up-B, you might dair his up-B and trade. His up-B knocks you over, but since you just hard pressed L, the game won't let you press the trigger again to tech. Thus, you take longer to recover from the knockdown and potentially let the Fox recover. If you only light press the L-cancel in the same scenario, the L-cancel input won't also count as a tech input, so you can repress L and tech the up-B.

Where can I buy a Japan white controller for a good price in Canada? Just getting into the competitive scene needing a responsive controller that has a longer cord

SmashBoards' Amazon store is in the announcements right on the top of the page. lol

Controller
http://bit.ly/1bUGQA3

Other Items
http://bit.ly/19Js3Xx

 

[Chrome Smash]

Teching is when you press L/R to quickly stand or roll after getting spiked into the stage (or simply tumbling downwards towards it). The game prevents you from spamming tech inputs. If you press L and collide with the ground within the next 20 frames, you will successfully tech. If you press L and collide with the ground from frames 21-40, you will miss the tech. You cannot repress the button before the 40-frame window is up or else it prevents you from teching for an additional 40 frames. If you L-cancel with a full press on your trigger trying to, for example, edgeguard Fox's up-B, you might dair his up-B and trade. His up-B knocks you over, but since you just hard pressed L, the game won't let you press the trigger again to tech. Thus, you take longer to recover from the knockdown and potentially let the Fox recover. If you only light press the L-cancel in the same scenario, the L-cancel input won't also count as a tech input, so you can repress L and tech the up-B.


SmashBoards' Amazon store is in the announcements right on the top of the page. lol

Controller
http://bit.ly/1bUGQA3

Other Items
http://bit.ly/19Js3Xx

I know that... I live in Canada so I can't order from the american amazon site which is much more of a hassle, I wanted to know how to get a good priced one if I live in Canada

 

[Twinkles]

Heyo,

Just wondering if it's possible to buffer a getup attack out of a jab reset from Falcon

Thanks bros

 

[NastyNate]

Is there ever an instance where you don't want to Perfect Shield? All i know is that when you do it, you dont move. So would players do it for spacing / positioning purposes? This is all in assumption of high caliber play. If your by the edge and maybe want to purposely not perfect shield so you fall and grab the ledge, mayb you want the push back for a tipper move?? Idk to be honest, im an average player and im sure IF this is true, they would be very rare scenarios

 

[Bones0]

Is there ever an instance where you don't want to Perfect Shield? All i know is that when you do it, you dont move. So would players do it for spacing / positioning purposes? This is all in assumption of high caliber play. If your by the edge and maybe want to purposely not perfect shield so you fall and grab the ledge, mayb you want the push back for a tipper move?? Idk to be honest, im an average player and im sure IF this is true, they would be very rare scenarios

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Perfect_shield

Here are the basics.

Projectiles:
- No shield stun
- No shield pushback
- Reflects projectile (deals half damage)

Physical Attacks:
- Shield stun is unchanged (a common misconception is that you have less or no shield stun when you PS physical attacks; this is not true)
- Shield pushback is maxed out (equivalent to the lightest light shield; holding Z is the only way to get that light shield)
- When you release the shield button, you normally have ~15 frames of shield release lag (varies by character). If you PS, the game will allow you to do ground attacks during this shield release lag. Thus, if you PS an attack, you can let go of shield and fsmash, dtilt, or do other ground moves more quickly than if you had to WD in place or undergo shield release lag before attacking.

Other stuff:
- You can only PS with a hard shield (the trigger must click).
- The window for PSing is shorter for projectiles than for physical attacks (I think it's 2 and 4 frames respectively).
- You don't take shield damage from PSed attacks.

To answer your original question, yes, there are times when PSing can mess you up. The most common instance (and only non-niche one I can come up with atm) is being pushed back too far to shield grab or counterattack.

 

[NastyNate]

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Perfect_shield

Here are the basics.

Projectiles:
- No shield stun
- No shield pushback
- Reflects projectile (deals half damage)

Physical Attacks:
- Shield stun is unchanged (a common misconception is that you have less or no shield stun when you PS physical attacks; this is not true)
- Shield pushback is maxed out (equivalent to the lightest light shield; holding Z is the only way to get that light shield)
- When you release the shield button, you normally have 15 frames of shield release lag (I may be off by 1-2 frames). If you PS, the game will allow you to do A-attacks during this shield release lag. Thus, if you PS an attack, you can let go of shield and fsmash, dtilt, or do other ground moves more quickly than if you had to WD in place or undergo shield release lag before attacking.

Other stuff:
- You can only PS with a hard shield (the trigger must click).
- The window for PSing is shorter for projectiles than for physical attacks (I think it's 2 and 4 frames respectively).
- You don't take shield damage from PSed attacks.

To answer your original question, yes, there are times when PSing can mess you up. The most common instance (and only non-niche one I can come up with atm) is being pushed back too far to shield grab or counterattack.

Just for clarification, you are saying that there are times when professional players would NOT want to PS? As oppose to simply failing the execution and the result being better

 

[Bones0]

Just for clarification, you are saying that there are times when professional players would NOT want to PS? As oppose to simply failing the execution and the result being better

Yes, sometimes you don't want to slide away because your OoS option won't reach. Only example where I imagine PSing a projectile might mess me up would be if I'm shielding near the ledge and expecting to get knocked onto it, but PSing it isn't really worse, just hard to anticipate. Actually, another one would be if I try to shield DI a heavy-stun projectle like Samus's charge shot. If I accidentally PS, I will roll instead of SDIing.

Just saw your thread and realized you had already thought of that. LOL

 

[NastyNate]

Yes, sometimes you don't want to slide away because your OoS option won't reach. Only example where I imagine PSing a projectile might mess me up would be if I'm shielding near the ledge and expecting to get knocked onto it, but PSing it isn't really worse, just hard to anticipate. Actually, another one would be if I try to shield DI a heavy-stun projectle like Samus's charge shot. If I accidentally PS, I will roll instead of SDIing.

Just saw your thread and realized you had already thought of that. LOL

Thanks alot, really appreciate it

 

[AlphaQHard]

For short hop lasers is it Short hop, laser, fast fall, l cancel?

Why is upsmashing out of shield so hard? Is it just shield then upsmash?

Does the jump buttons(x or y) have two sensors? let say you barely press it and its a short hop and if you press it all the way down its a full jump? Is that how it works? I heard the short hop mechanic is different in melee than in brawl.

 

[Monkley6]

For short hop lasers is it Short hop, laser, fast fall, l cancel?

Yes, except I don't think you need to l-cancel it.

Why is upsmashing out of shield so hard? Is it just shield then upsmash?

If you just press up+A OoS you get a grab, I've read you can hit up on the c-stick twice, but that seems ridiculous to me. I just press up on the control stick and c-stick in quick succession. Up on the control stick to jump, then up on the c-stick to cancel your jumpsquat into an usmash.

Does the jump buttons(x or y) have two sensors? let say you barely press it and its a short hop and if you press it all the way down its a full jump? Is that how it works? I heard the short hop mechanic is different in melee than in brawl.

No, it does not have 2 sensors. (to my knowledge) How short hopping works: You press jump, if you release jump before you're airborn (while still in jumpsquat animation) then you short hop. If you release it after you're airborn (after your jumpsquat animation...) then you'll fullhop. The length of jumpsquat animation depends on the character. E.g., Fox & Sheik's jumpsquat is 3 frames, where as Ganon's is 6.