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This is true. If you get hold of one of Diddy's bananas then you aren't playing a good Diddy.
You can't discuss tiers without discussing two crucial things, tournament placement and match-ups. It's a fundamental tangent.
For MK almost everything he has goes through mach tornado.
I am really puzzled about Diddy. I constantly see great stuff like then, then I go look at his tournament outings and honestly scratch my head. We all know he has the potential, sure, but why hasn't it translated to actual Tournaments?
Read the bold.
the list was made two weeks ago when he had far less wins
yeah, wario above metaknight. the matchup list got it wrong, wario has two bad matchups total, marth and dedede. metaknight is either 5/5 or 6/4 in favor of metaknight, but i think its even because most of the time the warios out here in california beat the metaknights. its gotten to the point where about half of the snake mains are switching to wario, when you know all his tricks he's really good. when the list was made, wario had the second most wins behind snake, now he's tied for 3rd, but considering he is not (was not for us) very popular, that amount of wins is very impressive. a few warios have also won big tournaments, futile won a 179 man tournament at ucla, the ffa biweeklies only get about 70 people, but all the best usually show up to those, and futile and plan 9 take top spots all the time. wario is freaking good. he's like playing melee jiggs, except he can grab in the air, live to 120+, and he can't be punished on rest (1:00 waft kills quicker than the full charge)
the lists here put put dk in the mid to low mid range (most anyway), dk has the 8th highest tournament placings, good matchups vs the top two (and several of the high tiers that the matchup chart doesn't want to admit). and is far less popular than lucario. sonic got one win within two weeks of brawls launch, and i have yet to here of a sonic something larger than a 64 man. and ike is THAT bad, most people wanted to place him in bottom, he has very exploitable weakness's and bad matchups (and don't bring up the matchup chart, that things ********, according to it, game and watch and marth are god, seriously, it gives them better matchups than snake and metaknight. and it puts ike as an advantage against wario, which isnt even close). peach, luigi, ness, and mario all do fairly well out here, especially because mario and luigi actually combo (real ones, not brawl 'combos') and ZSS has consistently placed high in new york according to the lone newyorker in the discussion.
TL and diddy are 18th and 25th respectively in tournament placings, dk and wolf are 8th and 9th, they are both above mid tier, dk has won over twice as many tournaments as diddy and toon link combined
My list isn't totally based off tourney wins. Diddy has too much potential to be where he is in tournaments. It's a shame. I rank my tiers on who's the best, not best in tourneys only.
Having said what I said above, DK is on par with both MK and Snake when fighting them, so he can win against them in the finals of tourneys. So what? You forgot to mention how many Diddy and TL players main them and are good with them, and how many top8s and top4 each character has. It's not overwhelming. As for Wolf, he's crap. Everyone knows it. His moves are so telegraphed, it's kind of lame. After a lot of practice, he becomes much, much easier to fight. He has too many bad matchups too. IvanEva's chart doesn't reflect how bad he is, but it's true. He was overrated in the beginning when this game came out.
really, diddy sounds good on paper, but if the opponent knows diddys tricks, he isn't that good, once people started dash attacking and airdodging to pick up bananas diddys started losing a lot.
so a lot of things, he doesn't just do well vs snake and metaknight, he has even or advantageous matchups with most of the cast, and its reflected in his tournament placings, and should be reflected in the tiers
ill cover it more at the bottom of this post, but to me, having a lot of good diddy and toon link players (there are/were plenty compared to characters like dk and wario, who have very few mains) with very few wins means that character is bad and just popular. if the character cannot win, even when overplayed, then it is overrated in my book. toon link and diddy are somewhat popular, which is why they place high, but they aren't good enough (currentlly at least) to win many tournaments.
after playing the germ, and watching lucky beat plan 9 with wolf, i can tell you he is not overrated. his playstyle that was used at or around launch was overrated, but currently, the character itself is very good. his projectile is still good, he still has good range, his bairs good, and most importantly, he's winning and placing well
most of the other characters would require a long argument that i don't wanna go through again. and metaknight has been winning an placing high because he, along with snake, are two of the most played characters, while there are very few warios. the fact that there are only a few, yet those few are winning tells me wario is a very good character. and it's not just one guy winning a lot as wario. futiles insane, but plan 9, deff and wario have all been doing very well with wario.
This is one of the things I'm talking about about how why we cannot base it completely on tournament results. Great players like Azen could make any character look good, we have to really not only just look a the Winning placers, but exactly how many consistently find success with said characters. This is why I find characters that place consisntently in the Top 4/8 overall have a more solid claim than characters like Wario who are winning a lot but don't nearly have the same amount of consistent Top 4/8 placings, because it usually means it's more than one people contributing.
Well basicially AlphaZealot's post explained what I would say to counter this. You canot honestly admit that the majority of Wario's wins come from Futile.
This is an ignorant statement I see constantly repeated, trust me, against a good Diddy it is not that easy.
Your right, his match-ups are not good enough and its just his tournament wins,which are par, that keeps him out of the upper, thanks for the comment, beacuse now my vision of the upper tier is less vaugue than it used to be. Now here is my newest edit of my three tiers list.
The problem with TL is his match-ups are good but he doesent win that much in tournaments but I will raise him slightly, and as for Diddy I will put him as a debateable character in the top of the middle tier beacue his match-ups and tourneys wins are not that much above most characters.
Still don't understand why Kirby still isn't anywhere on this list or other people's tier list. Kirby places better than Toon Link, Zelda, and Ice Climbers. I pretty much believe most people may have settled on the fact that the first two are overrated. No reason Kirby shouldn't be here somewhere. I would say below Luke.
So you're telling me that Kirby has bad match-ups against several popular tournament characters yet deserves to be moved up? What are his good match-ups? What puts him above the other characters in mid tier?
SRK generally thinks of Mario as a low tier character, and neither his match-ups or tournament results can be used to disprove it.
Olimar and Zelda have some hideously bad match-ups, but they also have some incredibly good match-ups to counter that. Both have their strengths, but they also have easily exploitable flaws such as Olimar's recovery and Zelda's approach. They rightly deserve to be in mid tier and their tournament results don't help to disprove that claim.
