Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[furyberserk]

There has to be bottom tiers. There was Top, High, Middle, Low, and Bottom tiers. Bottom are the last ones in the game. It doesn't go by just their usfulness in any situation, but also by the ammount of characters that are playable in the game. If you say no Bottom or Low tiers and have Top, High, (Middle-High) and Middle, then the Middle becomes the Bottom and the High becomest the middle(Middle-High becomes separated into Middle and High). There has to be someone on the bottom, which is why they call it Bottom Tier(but that doesn't mean that they completely suck, off of smashwiki.com, It read that Taj has the only pro mewtwo, and he constently wins tourneys with him against other pros though he is the Bottom/Dead tier).

 

[rtmcs1017]

The amount of fail in this thread is astounding.

There is no way that the tiers are determined yet, because the game has not been out for long enough.

Please just play the game, go to some tournaments, have some fun, and wait for this stupid Tier list to be formed when it SHOULD be formed.

 

[limitbreak]

The amount of fail in this thread is astounding.

There is no way that the tiers are determined yet, because the game has not been out for long enough.

Please just play the game, go to some tournaments, have some fun, and wait for this stupid Tier list to be formed when it SHOULD be formed.

True but I dont see the harm in people predicting lists. The only problem is, most of the these lists are made by the most retarted people on this planet.

 

[Gyumi]

The amount of fail in this thread is astounding.

There is no way that the tiers are determined yet, because the game has not been out for long enough.

Please just play the game, go to some tournaments, have some fun, and wait for this stupid Tier list to be formed when it SHOULD be formed.

Of course, They are just pretty much discussing them. There aren't even trying to determine them.
It's just ideas and opinion at this moment.

 

[g5otaku]

TOP TIER:
Marth
Fox
Toon Link

HIGHER TIER:
Diddy Kong
Ike
R.O.B.
Olimar
Lucas

HIGH TIER:
ZSS
Sheik
King Dedede
Ice Climbers
Snake
Game and Watch
Luigi
Pikachu
Kirby
Ness

MEDIUM TIER:
Lucario
Peach
Mario
Samus
Pokemon Trainer
Wario
Ganondorf

LOW TIER:
Link
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Jigglypuff
Bowser

BIRD TIER:
Falco
Pit
Metaknight
Captain Falcon?

CHILI DOG TIER:
Sonic

CANT LET YOU DO THAT STARFOX TIER:
Wolf

 

[TheGrim]

Top Tier

Marth
Falco
Wolf
Toon Link
Meta Knight

High Tier
Ike
Fox
Snake
Diddy Kong
Mr Game & Watch
R.O.B.
Lucas
Olimar & Pikmin

Middle Tier
Pit
King DeDeDe
Zero Suit Samus
Ness
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer
Ice Climbers
Link
Sheik
Kirby

Low Tier
Wario
Samus
Mario
Luigi
Captain Falcon
Peach
Yoshi
Zelda
Bowser

Bottom Tier
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Donkey Kong
Ganondorf
Sonic

I know I'm pretty new (Not really, but I barely post) and not that experienced, but I lurk the boards and know the basic stuff to competitive brawling. I know my tier list is not exactly right, but I think it's pretty accurate my self. Comments, opinions, and criticism are accepted.

 

[Dry Bones]

i like your list a lot actually... perhaps the only thing i would change at this point is ike, ness and ROB being lower, and maybe bumping dedede and pit higher. good work mate =)

 

[TehBo49]

I see a lot of people getting mad & upset about their character being placed in low/bottom tier. This isn't Melee 2.0. The characters in this game are more balanced & closer together in terms of playability. Brawl's low/bottom tier is more like Melee's middle tier. Besides, you should still use your best character regardless of where they are on the tier list.

 

[Giga Hand]

I see a lot of people getting mad & upset about their character being placed in low/bottom tier. This isn't Melee 2.0. The characters in this game are more balanced & closer together in terms of playability. Brawl's low/bottom tier is more like Melee's middle tier. Besides, you should still use your best character regardless of where they are on the tier list.

QFT times infinity-billion and one.

Aaaaannyway

TOP TIER
King Dedede
Olimar
Lucario
Pit

BOTTOM TIER
Pretty much everyone else

LANDMASTER TIER
Landmaster (sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[Giga Hand]

The amount of fail in this thread is astounding.

There is no way that the tiers are determined yet, because the game has not been out for long enough.

Please just play the game, go to some tournaments, have some fun, and wait for this stupid Tier list to be formed when it SHOULD be formed.

The amount of fail in you is astounding. Read the first thread before you post.

 

[R4ZE]

im not saying this is the tiers, but hey.. here is my opinion:

Top Tier
Toon Link
Meta Knight
King DeDeDe
Pikachu
Zelda

High Tier
Falco
Marth
Ike
Fox
Snake
Diddy Kong
Mr Game & Watch
R.O.B.
Lucas
Ness

Middle Tier
Bowser
Olimar & Pikmin
Wolf
Pit
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby
Pokemon Trainer
Ice Climbers
Link
Sheik

Low Tier
Wario
Mario
Luigi
Captain Falcon
Yoshi
Lucario

Bottom Tier

Jigglypuff
Donkey Kong
Ganondorf
Sonic
Samus
Peach


kinda quickly done. but thats my general opinion right now, im sure it will change as i learn more.

 

[KevinM]

I Have A Hypothesis

Level 9 computers are the Strongest computers possible
while they don't neccisarily know how to Combo, or perform complicated moves that we gamers know are built to kill, they do have super human reflexes in sheilding, dodging, and attacking.

This Said, shoudn't any computer that beats one of a diffrent character consecutivley be counted as a higher tier than that one

In this case, what should be done is this

set up multiple matches that pit every character against the others

those characters that win a high percentage of the matches can be considered the highest tiers,

those that consecutivley lose can be considered the lower tier members

when this Is all said and done, we can test it. for instance, if Mario seems to win more than Link, then we can pit the two together in a one on one, and check "In every ten battles between Lvl9 Mario and Lvl9 link, How many times does Mario win"
If Mario wins +51% of the time, then the list must work

Once again, this is just a hypothesis
and also, I don't actually think that Mario beats link most of the time

Man i have a hypothesis for you as well.

Re-read the post you stated above, and kill yourself.

 

[Flaming Dragon Wang]

Top:

Snake- no
Marth
Toon Link- maybe high
Falco- yes, he really does belong here
Luigi- high tier

High:

Diddy Kong
Pit- might be top material
Wolf- rofls no mid
Fox
R.O.B.
King Dedede
Pikmin and Olimar- more like top 4 buddy

High-Middle:

Ike- maybe mid
Lucas- could be high tier
Meta Knight- ROFL no more like smack in the middle tier
Pokemon Trainer- squirtle & ivysaur are high tier, charizard=midlow-bottom tier

Middle:

Pikachu
Mr. Game & Watch- possible high-middle
Sonic- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOUUUU IDDDDDIOTTTT
Lucario
Ness
Zelda- NO: high-top tier
Mario
Samus
Kirby
Wario
Zero Suit Samus- high mid
Peach
Bowser
Link- possible high mid- he has the tools to stand against top tiers
Sheik

Middle-Low:
Yoshi- not sure tbh
Jigglypuff- not sure tbh
Ganondorf- bottom 2
Donkey Kong- mid tier:believe it
Ice Climbers- NO: definitely in the top 15
Captain Falcon

Low:

Nobody.- sonic, captain falcon, ganondorf belong here, dummy

Changed it up a bit.

Let's see....

Snake doesn't belong in anything but the first two or three positions in top tier. He's a f*cking titan. I have never been scared of anything in my life as I have been with Snake. He is ridiculous.

Toon Link, also, belongs straight in Top. He is one of the best characters in the game from any viewpoint. Watch some pro videos of him and you'll see why he's a god.

You could be right about Luigi, I may switch his position with Pit.

Wolf is higher than mid. All of the three spacies should be very close together, with Falco first, then Wolf, then Fox.

Pikmin and Olimar, while being godlike in some situations, handles pressure very badly and probably won't end up top tier.

Everybody in high-middle belongs in high-middle. Maybe Mr. Game & Watch should be in there, I guess.

Sonic isn't as bad as you're saying he is. Granted, he's not good, and he probably deserves a lower spot in the middle, but he isn't so bad that he'd be grouped with Capt. Falcon and Ganondorf.

You may be right about Zelda, but not about ZSS and especially not Link.

I'll raise Ice Climbers and DK. But not too far. I have yet to be impressed by them.

 

[BigRick]

ppl are underrating DK too much

learn 2 play the god**** monkey

 

[Keitaro]

Ike kicks more *** than people seem to know.

 

[BigRick]

Btw ppl I was not joking in my last post

DK is good

 

[DQP]

toon, toon, and toon are all top tier, top tier, top tier

 

[The Mediator]

Ike kicks more *** than people seem to know.

Agreed times ten billion.



And another thing: I've noticed that every single time some noob posts a tier list, THEY ALWAYS PUT LUCARIO LOW. I don't play Lucario, but I'm not so ******** as to rate Lucario SO GOD**** LOW!!!!

 

[Sikarios]

Do we really need Top-High-Mid-Low-Bottom? That just seems like overclassification. It is true that there are many characters in this game, but if they're closer than Melee as we have said, then why not just have HIGH-MID-LOW? That always made the most sense to me, and requires less argumentation. Just my 2 cents.

 

[LoOshKiN]

I'm not going to make a tier list because I know I don't have enough experience of my own to go off of, which is ideally what you want to do, but I will make it known that just because you know a handful of people that are good with a certain character (Yoshi & DK mains, I'm talking about you) Doesn't mean they're going to be high in the tier list.

I'm a Ganondorf main in Melee, and in Brawl I'm maining Snake, Bowser, Ganondorf, and ROB (in that order.) With that being said, you won't hear any cries from me like "zomg, Ganondorf is good. He should be in middle tier."

Ganondorf is definitely bottom, that's true. Just makes me proud to kick *** with him. Ganondorf is way too nerfed to be decent anymore. Without l-canceling, and wavedash/landing he can't keep up. If he still had the range he did in Melee, he might be sub-par, but they took that away from him too. Hell, they even nerfed the bulge.

Bowser is somewhere in low, maybe he'll make it to the bottom of the middle (like G-dorf in Melee). It depends on how the tier list is structured. He can hold his own just like he did in Melee, especially since he has been buffed.

Snake is going to be on the better half of the list, surprise surprise (sarcasm) That's all I have to say about him.

ROB is... actually I don't know, I'm not going to BS or anything

I use and encourage the use of the edit button

 

[Flaming Dragon Wang]

Top:

Snake
Toon Link
Marth
Falco

High:

Pit
Diddy Kong
Wolf
Luigi
Fox
R.O.B.
King Dedede
Pikmin and Olimar

High-Middle:

Ike
Lucas
Pokemon Trainer
Mr. Game & Watch
Meta Knight
Zelda

Middle:

Pikachu
Lucario
Samus
Ness
Kirby
Wario
Mario
Zero Suit Samus
Peach
Bowser
Sonic
Link
Sheik

Middle-Low:
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers
Yoshi
Jigglypuff

Low:
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

Fixed it up some more.

 

[VulgarHandGestures]

i honestly have to ask what's going through the heads of people who put pokemon trainer below high tier. have you even played as him? for more than a few matches?

squirtle is a freaking combo beast with a move that makes him invincible for as long as he's using it... it's crazy. his only real weakness is low weight.

ivysaur has range range range, an upsmash that counts as one of the most powerful moves in the game (and has enough range to tag someone on a platform above you...), and a handful of incredibly abusable moves - nair to bullet seed is the new dair to waveshine.

charizard has fantastic range as well (although without ivy's disjointed hitboxes), great speed on his tilts, and a RIDICULOUS amount of power. just ridiculous. try wavebouncing a rocksmash sometime. ~40% damage if you hit them squarely, fairly safe from punishment if you don't.

pokemon trainer is not a low tier character. pokemon trainer is a great character. his biggest problem, overall, is the fact that you don't have all of your abilities open to you all the time, but trust me, each pokemon is a complete character. you don't need to switch every 30 seconds.

not that i'm a pokemon trainer fanboy (i knew before the game came out that i was going to main snake), but seeing all these tier lists with pokemon trainer down in the lower half with bowser and dk is just stupid.

QFTencharmanders

EDIT: zelda is being underrated as well. i've been playing smash competitively for years, yet i had to really fight one of my friends (who doesn't play video games...) to win against his zelda. usmash is stupid, din's fire is stupid, kicks are stupid. zelda is stupid in this game.

 

[will388]

why does everyone put falco so high? i try so hard to adjust to him but when i play online its like i get outpaced by zelda... falco has GREAT kill moves but his maneuverability feels so sluggish and ********

i understand falco has a laserlock and chaingrab but can someone show some videos of a fairly good falco? ive yet to see any falco that i can consider 'good'
edit: i also wouldnt mind playing against someone who says they have a good falco..
<<<<<<<my fc is over there.. East

 

[Tohoya]

I think a lot of people are underestimating Lucario.

Sure, if all you had going for you was the powerup when you get to low HP, you'd be pretty disappointed, as he only really hits above-average damage and knockback at 100%. The point is that, at 100%, you get above-average damage and knockback with a fantastic projectile, a counter that can kill things, good speed, the fastest dodge-roll in the game (his greatest asset, IMO), and a fantastic air game.

 

[Tien2500]

Be nice if people tried to back up their opinions a bit.

As for Ike. Yes he's very strong and has great range. But he has problems with characters who have decent projectiles. Thats Toon Link, Rob, Fox, Falco, Pit, Zelda, Peach, Ness, Lucas, Samus, and maybe a few others. I know a lot of characters have trouble with projectile users but I feel its worse with Ike as he's slow and is vulnerable to a strong keep away game. Still he can really destroy some characters and can be a very tough match for characters that have to get up close to deal damage. Mid-tier is good for him.

 

[marmitonkiller]

target co-op

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lqbQe05Nj6E

 

[BigRick]

Bowser is the most overrated character

Gimpy did a great job

 

[Flaming Dragon Wang]

About Zelda:

Yes, her sweetspotted aerials are insanely good. Yes, her Din's Fire is one of the best projectiles in the game. And yes, her smashes are very good and she has a useful reflector. She is a very good character. But she suffers from having a severely limited approach and a slow ground game, from what I've seen.

I may be underestimating her. I shall try using her some more.

About Falco:

You want proof that he's top tier? Here.

-Best projectiles in the game
-Laser locking
-Beautiful, fast aerials
-Fast tilts and powerful finishers
-Handles and deals out pressure very well

Admittedly, his recovery is iffy and he's kind of light. Plus, he's easily comboed, and he doesn't have many good finishing aerials.

But he's still incredible.

And if you're into that kind of thing, he has one of the best Final Smashes in the game.

 

[Fletch]

lol @ toon link being "BY FAR" the best character in the game. That's the funniest thing I heard all day.

While I wouldn't say he is "by far" the best character in the game, he definitely has a good chance of being the best just because of his playstyle catering well to Brawl's engine.

 

[-notic]

sonic for bottom 3
if you don't see it then you're not good at this game kthx

 

[Fletch]

I see a lot of people getting mad & upset about their character being placed in low/bottom tier. This isn't Melee 2.0. The characters in this game are more balanced & closer together in terms of playability. Brawl's low/bottom tier is more like Melee's middle tier. Besides, you should still use your best character regardless of where they are on the tier list.

If anything, Brawl will prove to be less balanced than Melee. So many characters were viable in Melee and that simply won't be the case this time around. Also, loss of universal ATs that balanced out the game just aren't present in Brawl, and will widen the tier gap. Just because you just joined and assumed Melee wasn't balanced because that's what every newcomer thinks doesn't make it true. Play some competitive Melee before saying something so ignorant next time.

 

[C 3]

Here's a potential list IMO:

TOP TIER

Marth
Metaknight
Toon Link
Zero Suit

HIGH TIER

Olimar
Pit
Pokemon Trainer
Ice Climbers
Peach

MID TIER

Ike
Zelda
Dedede
ROB
Luigi
Diddy
Lucas
Kirby
DK
Wolf
Fox
Sheik

LOW TIER

Snake
G & W
Pika
Jiggs
Link
Bowser
Wario
Ness
Lucario
Falco
Mario
Samus
Ganon

BOTTOM TIER

Falcon
Sonic
Yoshi


It's not necessarily right (obviously) but i'm throwing it out there to discuss and to find out what (intelligent) info I can get on match ups so far.

 

[Flaming Dragon Wang]

Sonic may be bad, but not bottom 3 bad. Come on, give him a little credit. He can combo nicely and has some nice rolls. He can juggle well, and his attacks barely have any lag and can be very flexible. Not to mention he has a very nice recovery.

He may suck, but not as hard as Captain Falcon or Ganondorf.

 

[hoopspr226]

Lol @ Snake in Low Tier and ZSS in Top Tier

 

[DOAisBetter]

It seems Sonic has possibly the hardest time landing a killing blow in the game. So I would say Yes he is that bad. Honestly in the end I wouldn't be suprised if he moved up from bottom a little but with everything I have seen now he belongs down there.

 

[Scicky]

Not really in any order within the tiers

Bottom Tier has been abolished, there was no need for it :/

Top Tier:
Pit (Arrows are god, can combo well, can kill, reflects projectiles, fairly awesome recovery)
Toon Link (Combos, Kills, and he's everywhere at once, Hookshot canceling is awesome)
Falco (Epic projectile, can Combo well, FSmash and USmash kill, reflector is awesome)
Ice Climbers (Watch PaxZ videos)

High Tier:
Game and Watch (Just plain awesome)
Wolf (Combos, kills, can chainthrow [though it's hard])
Fox (Combos and killing)
Marth (He really hasn't changed much from melee...)
Snake (This Guy is everywhere and anywhere on the stage)
Lucas (Can Combo Fairly well, god recovery with Zap Jumping and PK Thunder, tether recovery and 2 spikes)
Luigi (Finally, Luigi's time to shine! This guys recovery is nuts, he's just overall better [lol pun])
Zelda (Heels are epic, Dins fire is epic)

Middle Tier:
Sonic (He's fast, but god **** he just feels wierd, he's unlike any character before him)
Samus (Missiles go boom, can rack up damage fairly easily... grapple canceling is the new missile canceling)
Peach (Still decent, not as good though)
Ike (Okay, he's just cool, kills early, CAN combo sometimes, side B is awesome)
Diddy Kong (Has trouble killing, but not so bad as metaknight, and can combo very well)
Metaknight (Can't kill)
Pokemon Trainer (You CANNOT play a pokemon alone, they are one character, use them that way)
Lucario (His killing moves are hard to get off, but he can combo well and has a good projectile)
DeDeDe (FSmash and USmash are pretty cool, fairly laggy, projectiles aren't so reliable)
Ness (Fairly balanced, nothing amazing...)
Pikachu (I've seen thunder kill snake, a fairly heavy character, from 17%)
Ganondorf (Can Still Combo with Tech Chasing, FTilt sends at ******** angles, and is kinda quick, Ganoncide is lol)
Olimar (Can combo and kill quite easily, racks up damage easily, tether recovery and being light sucks)
Mario (Not great... he's meh, haven't seen him put the hurt on people as much as Luigi...)
Sheik (Bah, not great)

Low Tier:
Kirby (Yeah okay, he's better, is he good? Naw)
Link (Better from melee, still sucks though)
Yoshi (Is there anything he CAN do)
Wario (He's okay in the air... but meh, don't see too much potential here)
Captain Falcon (Sorry, he kinda sucks now, s'a darn shame)
Donkey Kong (So he's better, still not great...)
ZSS (I see potential, but it's locked away somewhere)
ROB (Ehhh, he's not so good, god recovery and heavy, he has that going for him as well as a decent projectile, but no-one I know has had success with him)

 

[Jink]

Pit owns all situations easily.
He has all for rush down, all to kill, all to stop you from anything anywhere, very hard to kill, all for turtleling out of anything, kills you hopelessly from edge guarding, etc.

 

[Furbs]

WTF!? PWND TIER

Marth

HIGH TIER

Zero Suit
Olimar
Pit
Ice Climbers
Sonic
Wolf
Fox
Sheik
Pika
Lucario
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Metaknight
Toon Link
Lucas

MID TIER

Falco
Peach
Ike
Zelda
Dedede
ROB
Luigi
Kirby
DK
Ice Climbers
G & W
Yoshi
Ness
Snake

LOW TIER

Falcon
Jiggs
Link
Wario
Charizard

BOTTOM TIER

Bowser
Mario
Samus
Ganon

 

[Flaming Dragon Wang]

Snake doesn't belong in anything but top tier.

 

[Scicky]

Lol @ Charizard being in low tier >>

He can rack up damage, has infinite recovery distance, can easily kill, fair
is great for edgeguarding