Official BBR Tier List v7

[NH Cody]

Fox is definitely better than ROB but idk about Wario. toon link is bad but not that bad.

 

[Tesh]

I don't think you can even create a bracket at a national that gives those characters a shot at winning or even getting money. Only way its possible is if multiple Salem/DEHF/Ally people take out MKs and then lose to a non MK.

 

[Dekillsage]

awwww shiz you guys dunno the terror of the cold robot.

get rdy

 

[bubbaking]

Outliers shouldn't matter in statistics. However, bubbaking, I think you've got the term "outlier" wrong. One player winning one tournament and then never again is an outlier, while one player doing great consistently when the others aren't is not.

Just saying.

I'm not the one using outlier in this way. Gheb is, but thanks for proving my point. ESAM regularly beats Snakes......by himself. Why is he still being considered as an outlier? As for APEX, Dabuz isn't even the best Oli (at least he wasn't before Apex, I think). It IS a pretty isolated incident that he outplaced the other top Olis by such a large margin. In fact, THAT'S the kind of instance that makes one speculate what his bracket looked like.

 

[Dekillsage]

Dabuz is the best olimar in NA(before and after apex). Japan didn't bring their olimars

 

[infiniteV115]

awwww shiz you guys dunno the terror of the cold robot.

get rdy

Lol. I have experience against the best ROB in NA (Holy). Trust me, ROB sucks.
Only reason I lost to him is cause I didn't know how to do the infinite (and I was bad). And then I eventually beat him without it XD

 

[Dekillsage]

Most people would consider holy the best rob in NA, but dill plays the char much better imo

 

[NH Cody]

That New York bias.

 

[infiniteV115]

Some people would consider Dill the best ROB in NA, but Holy plays the char much better imo.

 

[Tesh]

isnt dill the one that only does mk banned?

of course he looks better, ROB is made unviable by MK

 

[Cassio]

There was no reason to believe Dabuz was the best olimar (in North America) before Apex. However some of NY/NJ's players seemed to do some serious training prior to Apex and it was pretty apparent dabuz stepped things up and earned his higher placing compared to his peers.

 

[Attila_]

you can just throw a grenade at them when they do that, or walk backward with one....

blizzard can actually outspace nades. i never was able to work out why, but sometimes the blizzard can blow up the nade without hitting the climbers. perhaps it needs to be retreating or something.

this actually would make sense, typical 9b approach is desynched nana using blizzard, with popo moving forward then backward with the blizzard cover.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Meaningful topic:
What comes to mind for you guys when you think of undervalued in the tier list?

Oh, now you're just asking for Jiggs discussion to start up again.

 

[bubbaking]

Dabuz is the best olimar in NA(before and after apex). Japan didn't bring their olimars

I can understand the regional pride, and I'm not going to directly dispute your claim, but one could argue that Rich Brown was a better Olimar than Dabuz was. Being in MD/VA right now, my own regional pride could also argue that Logic was just as good as Dabuz.

In short, Dabuz is NOT the Ally of Olimars.

idk what this BS is about characters "viable as a solo main." If you're using a broken character like Snake/Olimar/Diddy, it's obviously viable as a solo main xD

The difference is that Snake is not broken.

That must mean M2K isn't a top player cause Salem bodied him, Nairo isn't a top player cause Otori bodied him, and Larry isn't a top player cause Leon bodied him. obviously all false.

Uh, none of these sets were one-sided enough to deserve the term "body", especially Nairo vs Otori. That was a very close set until Nairo lost his cool. Losing =/= being "bodied". Heck, even losing a set 2-0 or 3-0 doesn't really mean one was bodied if every game was last stock, last hit.

the real definition is "players who consistently do very well in tournaments." It's really that simple. There are lots of top players who have had good accomplishments and get 1st and 2nd all the time in their region. If you think "this" is getting boring, then why did you start it xD Don't pick fights and fire shots at people randomly.

This definition is just as faulty as the ones you were accusing V115 of making.

Real talk here, I sometimes feel Wario:DDD is like ±1 on any non-FD stage

No, it never feels that way except maybe on no longer legal stages, like Brinstar and RC.

So is Quest the new addition to the group of Jebus/Bubba/Gheb?

No, because the latter three you just mentioned actually try to facilitate meaningful discussions on here once in a while. I post obnoxious WoT's while looking for the right words (and smileys) to express my ideas, Gheb really, really likes to cite results for every argument ever, and Jebus pipes in every now and then to insert some controversial point with some actually solid reasoning behind it. Quest, however, is being ridiculous, and you are just being antagonizing for no reason.....as usual.

I will be in no such group with Bubba.

Good..... (-.-)

 

[Luco]

ROB is made unviable by MK

Sorry for taking this out of context (kinda...) but I just had to....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VOtACLllqg



And bubba, that logic doesn't really work because, although I admit they're probably going down, Oli and Pika sure as heck aren't going down the tier list because of an even MU with Ness.

 

[Iota]

I can understand the regional pride, and I'm not going to directly dispute your claim, but one could argue that Rich Brown was a better Olimar than Dabuz was. Being in MD/VA right now, my own regional pride could also argue that Logic was just as good as Dabuz.

In short, Dabuz is NOT the Ally of Olimars.

Get out of here with that region pride shiz. That's just plain trolling to try to put Logic near Dabuz's level.

With that said, Dabuz is probably the 2nd best if not the best Olimar in the world when he's not being dumb.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

but one could argue that Rich Brown was a better Olimar than Dabuz was.

One could argue that, but one would be incorrect

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think ROB beats ICs and Marth +1 and thus there might be a niche where he can compete in national tournaments to a certain degree. While many people argue that Ocean "shouldn't" have beaten M2K at Apex his wins against ICs in R1 and Ramin in R2 are legit beyond any doubt. So even if Ocean had lost to M2K and his next set in losers he still would've placed at a very respectable 17th place. Of course there's going to be a bit of bracket luck involved in that but at least there is a chance to pull it off for ROB, as opposed to Peach, GW, Sheik, Kirby or Lucario who lose to pretty much every top tier character. Luminous - who is imo the best active ROB player right now - beat various high level MKs by outskilling them, beat Mikeneko and beat Vinnie. It's definitely not a huge stretch of the imagination for this to happen in the bracket of an Apex tournament. I'd say it's a pretty huge stretch to assume that to happen for any of the other characters I menioned above. While ROB may have a worse matchup spread on paper in practice he still has more potential to place well. From that point of view it's definitely not a false claim that ROB is a better character than people believe and that he could be borderline high tier alongside Fox.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Not a very good example since I wasn't being serious

It actually was. I was just adding to sage post and then talking about how the game is today. And what you said was a prime example of this mess the game is today. Being serious or not means nothing. I just used you like a woman. Don't get hype.

Dark.Pch I loved your commentary yesterday but god I hate everything you post on SWF (not the content, but how it's worded and just drones on and on forever)
From now on, all your posts should just be C/P'd from a speech-to-text program, if possible imo

The only part that matter to me in this post was

"Dark.Pch I loved your commentary yesterday"

Dark Pch I read your post and it was the most worthwhile thing on this page in particular. Seriously, people giving up on characters so fast unless suddenly the character wins a tournament is silly. Make your own dream come true guys, get some frame data in your play.

Everyone else be arguing about the definition of outlier, seriously what is this the bickerboards.

Meaningful topic:
What comes to mind for you guys when you think of undervalued in the tier list?

I just keep it real.

I think ROB beats ICs and Marth +1 and thus there might be a niche where he can compete in national tournaments to a certain degree. While many people argue that Ocean "shouldn't" have beaten M2K at Apex his wins against ICs in R1 and Ramin in R2 are legit beyond any doubt. So even if Ocean had lost to M2K and his next set in losers he still would've placed at a very respectable 17th place. Of course there's going to be a bit of bracket luck involved in that but at least there is a chance to pull it off for ROB, as opposed to Peach, GW, Sheik, Kirby or Lucario who lose to pretty much every top tier character. Luminous - who is imo the best active ROB player right now - beat various high level MKs by outskilling them, beat Mikeneko and beat Vinnie. It's definitely not a huge stretch of the imagination for this to happen in the bracket of an Apex tournament. I'd say it's a pretty huge stretch to assume that to happen for any of the other characters I menioned above. While ROB may have a worse matchup spread on paper in practice he still has more potential to place well. From that point of view it's definitely not a false claim that ROB is a better character than people believe and that he could be borderline high tier alongside Fox.

*was gonna respond to this*

*realizes who is posting*

*Lets the person be with the nonsense*

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You're predictable. And wrong.

-3 vs MK / Snake
-2 vs Falco
-1 vs Olimar / Diddy Kong
0 to -1 vs ICs

Peach loses to all top tiers.

 

[infiniteV115]

Come on Gheb, I thought I explained this already -.-

 

[Gardex]

Marth, Pika and Wario are also top tiers at the moment

 

[pidgezero_one]

oh my god seriously

 

[infiniteV115]

Posting it here cause there's a 420 char limit in conversations -.-

No point in using terms like 'top tier' if you're just going to refer to your own opinions (no matter how sound) of the tier list rather than an already well established list (ie the thread in which you're posting) because if everybody uses them in reference to their own opinion the term itself becomes useless (eg when I say 'top tier' it includes Pikachu but when you say it, it doesn't. **** gets confusing)

For all you know, you and Dark.Pch could agree 100% on what Peach's MU is like with each character. But you disagree on the statement "Peach doesn't beat any top tiers" because you're each using your own definition of the term 'top tier'. Just refer to the list and then there's no confusion XD

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Top tier in the next list should include MK, Snake, Falco, ICs, Diddy Kong, Olimar, and ZSS in no particular order (but maybe with with ZSS at the bottom of it) followed by Marth, Pikachu, and the others.

There's not really any other logical position to have IMO.

However, I agree with V115. When you use the term "top tier" without qualifying it you should be referring to our established norms (i.e., the list we currently have). Any other usage is confusing and illogical.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

OK, so Pikachu and Wario are top tier according to this list, as is Marth. I didn't "ignore" that because I think it's wrong but because I genuinely didn't think they're up there. Oh well, from a practical point of view beating Marth alone is worth more than beating Pikachu and Wario counted together just based on how often you see these characters place well. And that's not counting in ICs who are also more common. My point remains the same *shrug*

 

[RaptorTEC]

There was no reason to believe Dabuz was the best olimar (in North America) before Apex. However some of NY/NJ's players seemed to do some serious training prior to Apex and it was pretty apparent dabuz stepped things up and earned his higher placing compared to his peers.

It was very debatable before Apex. Now it's clear though.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I just used you like a woman.

That's very sexist you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Dark.Pch]

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

 

[Dark.Pch]

excuse my double post, PC acting dumb.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I'm going to post my own 100% serious opinion of what the tier list should be for my 1337th post.

imo this should just be adopted as Tier List v8

SSS tier: Super Broken Banned By The Devs tier
, , , ,

SS Tier: Secretly God tier
,

S Tier: God Who Destroys Everything In His Path tier


A Tier: Amazing Enough To Place High In Tournaments tier
, , , , ,

B Tier: Best Players Can Do Well With Them tier
, ,, ,

C Tier: Could Be Top Tier But Then MK/Other Bad MU tier
, , , , ,

D Tier: Definitely Good Enough To Do Kinda OK With tier
, , , ,

E Tier: Everybody's Favourites tier
,

F tier: Forgettable tier
, , ,

G Tier: Get Rid Of Them tier
,

H Tier: Hyrule Tier:
, ,

Z Tier: Fox Tier
, ,

Remember everyone, this tier list is 100% serious and 1000% accurate.

Also anybody I forgot goes in F tier

 

[pidgezero_one]

As Mr. Mewtwo's thesis supervisor and chair of his thesis committee, I, Dr. P. Zero_One, declare that his work exceeds the expectations set out by our University, and he is hereby awarded with a Doctorate of Philosophy in Smashboards Community Studies.

Congratulations, Dr. Shiny Mewtwo.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Thank you Dr. Zero_One. I am very grateful for all the work you have done in order to make me into the man I am today. I shall use these skills for only the highest purpose.

 

[RaptorTEC]

What am I reading. :I

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

The tier list thread obviously.

 

[RaptorTEC]

The outdated* tier list thread. I seriously hope this will be updated within the next 2 months.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Silly Yoshi main, I just posted the update! Now all we need is for a new Official Thread to be made.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Leaking a bit of info, as the MU Chart project is progressing, the BBR recently started discussing posible procedures for making the Tier List v8.

 

[NH Cody]

OK, so Pikachu and Wario are top tier according to this list, as is Marth. I didn't "ignore" that because I think it's wrong but because I genuinely didn't think they're up there. Oh well, from a practical point of view beating Marth alone is worth more than beating Pikachu and Wario counted together just based on how often you see these characters place well. And that's not counting in ICs who are also more common. My point remains the same *shrug*

Marth in top tier is wrong?

what



que

 

[bubbaking]

So this falls under the 'consistency' criterion, sure. Falling under "very well"? That's debatable.
Getting first at a large tournament like Apex/SKTAR/SRT, or even a local in NJ/NY with all of their big names (or maybe a local in Japan with a bunch of big names) definitely fall under 'very well'.
Winning locals in NE? I wouldn't say so. Definitely a good performance, falls under 'well', not trying to insult the NE players cause I think (their better ones anyway. Fatal Koolaid BC Bizkit MikeRay Pelca) are definitely high-level players, but not exactly the creme-of-the-crop.

definitely high-level players, but not exactly the creme-of-the-crop.

not exactly the creme-of-the-crop.

creme-of-the-crop

This is seriously pissing me off...