Official BBR Tier List v6

[zmx]

My predictions:

1. MK 2. Olimar 3. Icys 4. Snake 5. Diddy

Oh and I expect Lucario to rise and DDD to fall.

Pikachu will no doubt rise as well.

 

[infiniteV115]

I don't think Oli and ICs will be above Snake and Diddy just yet
Then again the tier list is done by voting and everybody jumped on the whole japanese stagelist bandwagon after Japan whooped our ***** so who knows

 

[Espy Rose]

Olimar's probably riding that hype train up to top three.
It's a sad day.

 

[Vinylic.]

1. MK 2. Icys 3. Snake 4. Olimar 5. Diddy

This is how I think of it.

Though I haven't looked at a diddy/oil MU.

Diddy's bananas vs. Oli's sideB. I mostly think that the bananas overpower that.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

So, shortly we'll be seeing how many BBR members drank the weeaboo kool-aid, yes?

 

[Doc King]

My predictions:

1. MK 2. Olimar 3. Icys 4. Snake 5. Diddy

Oh and I expect Lucario to rise and DDD to fall.

Pikachu will no doubt rise as well.

Idk much about the competitive scene, but I think that Oli and Climbers being above Snake and Diddy would be a little too high imo. But they would definitely rise above Marth and Falco.

Pika will probably just stay where he is. Olimar is kind of a threat to Pikachu.

Lucario I think would stay the same also.

DDD will probably drop a little bit like every single tier list because DDD is just limited with a broken move and his metagame hasn't been improving outside of 4God. I don't think to mid tier but something like ZSS going above him is very possible.

Edit: With another thing that most of D3's AT's only work on mid and low tiers like Squirtle, Wolf, Puff, Ness, Ivysaur, Charizard. With an exception of Wario, but he's dropping as far as I know and he's D3 only good (+2 or above) top tier matchup and -3 matchups like Oli and Climbers are becoming more common so it's most likely he will drop on the list.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I don't think ZSS is better than Dedede.

I hope Zelda falls. Useless woman. She's worse than Ganondorf.

LET HER DROP

 

[Sunnysunny]

Lucario has almost never moved since the day this game came out. Its more like everyone moves around luca. Most new technology thought of by other characters don't really effect him that much. Haha~

Icys and oli totally won't be that high! They'll be higher since everyones picking em up so more results, but definitly not above diddy. Hell maybe not even snake.
I"m curious about the low tiers. Theres been alot of debates about ganon being somewhat more viable then jiggs, zel-dumb and falcon simply because if he reads you once you're like THAT much closer to death. He's actually dangerous if he gets in. I'd say he's better then falcon. Jiggs atleast has the ability to lame out players if she gets the first stock, and people that don't know the match up might be thrown off a little.

 

[Doc King]

I don't think ZSS is better than Dedede.

I hope Zelda falls. Useless woman. She's worse than Ganondorf.

LET HER DROP

It really depends on whether Wario's are still doing good or not. If yes than D3>ZSS if no than ZSS>D3.

Also with the climbers and olimar rising thing will badly affect D3 since he has almost no legit options to beat them.

Zelda I think is slightly better than Ganon because she doesn't get screwed over by chaingrabs and her recovery isn't horrible (Pretty bad but not horrible). They both should be Roll Tier though.

 

[IhaveSonar]

I personally would say that Ganon is above Zelda at this point. They are extremely immobile characters with no way to force the opponent to approach; ergo, any half-decent character can just run away/camp for the entire match, and they can't do anything about it. (Luigi also has this problem, which is why he has been dropping recently.) However, when they DO manage to get in on their opponent, Ganondorf gets rewarded far more greatly than Zelda does.

Also, while Ganon does get comboed incessantly, Zelda is much lighter and dies much earlier. Her slightly better recovery is not enough to compensate for this and to put her ahead of Ganon in terms of survivability.

I'd say Ganon>Zelda and the two of them are the worst in the game. Puff, Falcon, and Link could (arguably) all be in the tier above them.

 

[Alacion]

I support Zelda for worst character in the game.

 

[Sunnysunny]

As a character ganon is better imo. Theres just more Zelda reps then there is ganons right now. Probably the only reason shes above ganon right now.

 

[Dre89]

Aero I don't see why you'd want Zelda to drop. She's already in low tier.

The only thing that matters in the tier list is who is in low tier, because it determines who qualifies for low tier tourneys.

 

[BSP]

My predictions:

1. MK 2. Olimar 3. Icys 4. Snake 5. Diddy

Oh and I expect Lucario to rise and DDD to fall.

Pikachu will no doubt rise as well.

I would be surprised if Olimar was above ICs, Diddy, and Snake

He's been doing well...but that'd be a huge jump.

 

[Luxord]

a week?
a month?
3 months?

Marc said by the end of the month there would be v7 released

@espy in response to your "metaknight da bess" comment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVFpRQdOuQ0

 

[Coo_Too_Tim]

Wow Diddy's come so far since the first tier list...Makes me so proud!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

? What snake has similar placings to the people I named?

@lly / R@zer > Brood / V1nnie at Apex and other occasions. @lly won like 3 regionals with ~70 entrants ever since going Snake. H@vok won a ~80 man regional and got 4th at another one with like 100 entrants. F@tal doesn't seem to play as much anymore but when he did he'd also beat outplace V1nnie.
Shu / Kuroobi have beaten / outplaced Brood several times and beaten him as well. Souther is one of the very few people that have a realistic shot at taking sets off 9B.

How many more Snake players have to go to tourneys, beat top-level players with such a diverse player-base until people accept that he does do as well as said and that he has not been "figured out".

Ally can't win tournaments Solo snake though LOL. like have you seen him vs olimar with that character? ****s rough

BS, just cuz Ally is *** against Olimar doesn't mean "he can't win tourneys with solo Snake". M2K has always been *** vs Olimar and often wins tourneys with good Olimar players in attendance. Ally also won a tourney going solo Snake where d@buz was in attendance and like 80 other entrants [including Shug0 and V1nnie whom he both beat].

 

[Orion*]

You're telling us not to be stubborn.

the **** are you talking abot

@lly / R@zer > Brood / V1nnie at Apex and other occasions. @lly won like 3 regionals with ~70 entrants ever since going Snake. H@vok won a ~80 man regional and got 4th at another one with like 100 entrants. F@tal doesn't seem to play as much anymore but when he did he'd also beat outplace V1nnie.
Shu / Kuroobi have beaten / outplaced Brood several times and beaten him as well. Souther is one of the very few people that have a realistic shot at taking sets off 9B.

How many more Snake players have to go to tourneys, beat top-level players with such a diverse player-base until people accept that he does do as well as said and that he has not been "figured out".



BS, just cuz Ally is *** against Olimar doesn't mean "he can't win tourneys with solo Snake". M2K has always been *** vs Olimar and often wins tourneys with good Olimar players in attendance. Ally also won a tourney going solo Snake where d@buz was in attendance and like 80 other entrants [including Shug0 and V1nnie whom he both beat].

ironically ally and havok are regularly NOT solo snake mains in the large events aka internationals that count.

fatal has beaten people yes. but like the last time i saw him go OOR he was like 17th or something. outside of new england he's not placing much anymore i think.

nobody is saying snake can't beat top players you're ********. we just dont think he's that good, especially considering most of his MUs seem to be even v_v

 

[Sinister Slush]

The fact we main Yoshi means we're being stubborn to the point of sticking with such a terrible character instead of having a secondary or just switching mains entirely.

But then again, a few Yoshi mains have been using 1 or 2 new characters while still using Yoshi against match ups they're comfortable with.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

we just dont think he's that good, especially considering most of his MUs seem to be even v_v

And Olimar's don't? Char loses to MK, IC, Falco and is ~even with Snake, Diddy, Marth.

 

[Orion*]

The fact we main Yoshi means we're being stubborn to the point of sticking with such a terrible character instead of having a secondary or just switching mains entirely.

But then again, a few Yoshi mains have been using 1 or 2 new characters while still using Yoshi against match ups they're comfortable with.

I still dont see your point. Regardless of what character you play you have to deal with bull****, brawl is a stubborn game

And Olimar's don't? Char loses to MK, IC, Falco and is ~even with Snake, Diddy, Marth.

olimar and snake are interchangeable for me at this point with ICs being clearly above both.

All of the matchups you presented even if I dont agree with all of them are still at BEST relatively even +1/-1 matchups. The same goes for Snake, if I were to use the same characters in A-B Tier against him...

 

[Cassio]

Orion out of curiosity what would your current tier list look like?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yeah, I agree that ICs > Snake but I still think that Snake should be 3rd or at least 4th above Diddy Kong. I was mainly irritated by Hylian claiming that Snake doesn't have players that do the same as like Brood / V1nnie do, which just isn't correct.

 

[Orion*]

Orion out of curiosity what would your current tier list look like?

/ = interchangeable or not static placings. I tend to move **** around a lot in my mind (especially within tiers) but generally really fast without thinking about it heres my list.

High
S MK, ICs/Diddy
A Olimar/Snake/Marth
B Pika/Wario/Falco

Viable?/Mid
C Fox/Wolf, Tink, DDD, ZSS
D Peach, Lucario/GaW/Kirby

in current metagame nothing else matters to me, inb4 yoshi/pt mains cry lol

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

tbh yoshi is pretty good

 

[Orion*]

i cant see solo yoshi winning anything consistently even in bad regions. placing irregularly or taking names sometimes is about as far as its gonna get imo.

The characters in my mid/viable? tier are going to have to push their limits to get that far also though so no worries. I just don't think yoshi can cut it

 

[GOofyGV]

Orion how do you feel about character's like donkey kong or R.O.B.?

 

[Orion*]

DK is awful. Like he literally relies on gimmicks, and when those run out all he has is Punch (which is good) and 2 stage reads. If you zone DK, but don't rush in he can't charge punch, his tilts are punishable on block with good reaction time and his grab is slow with awful range so the mixup potential is bad once you learn to react to everything. Also get's juggled....

When I played will at apex despite not playing a good DK since the lats time I lived in the EC, I still felt like the character in general has no options.
Game 3 I just like super camped him and my only death was a ftilt at 200% near the ledge.... >_>

The only things DK has going for him is solid juggling/air to air priority, punch and weight. while those are enough to win sometimes, it's not enough to be consistent.

ROB is watch ADHD vs Ocean

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

ROB is watch Mew2King vs Ocean

Fixed

 

[infiniteV115]

I disagree with that viable/mid tier, Orion. I don't see why Wolf TLink or DDD would be above ZSS.
I don't know much about Wolf's MUs so, going by the MU chart his MU spread over the characters you listed is pretty good overall (mostly evens/-1s), but he still has 2 hard counters to work with (Pikachu and Dedede) and a solid disadvantage against Wario.

TL supposedly has a horrible MU against MK and has slightly losing MUs against quite a few others, beating only G&W Kirby and Peach (not the most common characters) slightly, and apparently ICs as well...?

Dedede has two even/slight advantages in top tier (Marth and Snake) and a solid advantage on Wario. He then gets **** on by the rest of top tier. He also loses to ZSS (-2) and to Fox (-1).

ZSS is like the only character in all of high/mid tier (ie high/mid on the current tier list) that doesn't have any solid disadvantages; all her MUs are manageable. She loses slightly to quite a few in top tier (MK Diddy Falco Oli Pikachu Wario), goes even with Marth/Snake, and her MU with ICs...well, the ZSS players think ICs are free and Vinnie thinks it's even, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's even. She then beats DDD, and slightly beats G&W and Kirby (and imo TL) and then goes even with the rest of the characters you mentioned. (some think Fox beats her but that MU is like never played out at any notable level)

Out of all the non-top-tier characters, the only ones I could see being above her are
-Fox (cause it's Fox and he's awesome), he has 2 hard counters, but Pikachu's pretty rare so he's probably easy to avoid. Outside of that he has a slightly better MU spread than ZSS.
-Wolf (cause I know nothing about this character so I can't say he's definitely worse than ZSS XD)
-Lucario (imo, but the MU chart tells a different story)
-Peach (imo but again the MU chart tells a different story. Her MU spread across top tier is decent but apparently she loses to quite a few of the non-top-tiers you mentioned LOL)

And even at that point I'd say that the placings of Fox, Wofl, ZSS, Lucario and Peach (relative to each other, as top 5 below top tier) is up in the air atm.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

http://i.imgur.com/DnE1P.png

That was what I created when MK was banned, I was assuming the metagame would shift more, I am saving it to see how correct I was when I made it. Other than DDD and Pika and maybe G&W, I am still pretty satisfied with it.

My skills with paint are unparalleled.

EDIT: Picture was massive.

 

[Orion*]

ZSS -all her MUs are manageable.

I owe you a bigger response but I need to leave to go play melee with marc so I will give you something more straightforward later but. In short, her MUs are doable but we disagree on what the ratios are. I would rather have more evenish MUs and 1-2 horrible ones, than lose more often than not.

@gheb
fair enough, didnt see your post. But atm at least in america I just feel like ICs are more dominant of a threat than snake nationally.

 

[Scatz]

tbh yoshi is pretty good

He's ok, but not viable from a lot of **** to happen in game. Once people learn how to abuse his problems, he's much less of an issue.

i cant see solo yoshi winning anything consistently even in bad regions. placing irregularly or taking names sometimes is about as far as its gonna get imo.

The characters in my mid/viable? tier are going to have to push their limits to get that far also though so no worries. I just don't think yoshi can cut it

QFT.

 

[zmx]

Saying Olimar has been doing well recently is an understatement.

Second at Apex.

In 2 recent Japanese tournys second place, and then first AND second place.

Consistently seems to get at least third place in all stacked regions. The 80 person tourny Gheb mentioned where Havok got first, Anuar got second. The other day Logic got third as well. There are way more results in America in the past few months but I don't know/remember all of them.

Europe seems to be the only region he's not dominating right now and even there he tends to place decently.

 

[Delta-cod]

Anyone saying Yoshi is solo viable is wrong, lol.

Falco takes a massive dump on Yoshi's chances of winning. Worst Match up ever. Doesn't help that Falco is a pretty common character nowadays. Or that Yoshi struggles a bit with other characters, although they're more manageable.

 

[Flayl]

I know one of you Yoshi's used to say often that Falco was manageable, and I could've sworn it was you Delta. Who was it then?

 

[Scatz]

Burntsocks. Delta stayed on neutrality, while I stated that the MU was bad for us.

 

[GOofyGV]

imo it's this

S: mk
A: IC,Diddy,Oli,Snake,Marth
B: Falco,Pikachu,Wario
C: Zss,Lucario,TL,Fox
D,D3,GAW,Wolf,Peach

for viable characters

I am not really sure about the C and D tier

 

[Doc King]

I disagree with that viable/mid tier, Orion. I don't see why Wolf TLink or DDD would be above ZSS.
I don't know much about Wolf's MUs so, going by the MU chart his MU spread over the characters you listed is pretty good overall (mostly evens/-1s), but he still has 2 hard counters to work with (Pikachu and Dedede) and a solid disadvantage against Wario.

TL supposedly has a horrible MU against MK and has slightly losing MUs against quite a few others, beating only G&W Kirby and Peach (not the most common characters) slightly, and apparently ICs as well...?

Dedede has two even/slight advantages in top tier (Marth and Snake) and a solid advantage on Wario. He then gets **** on by the rest of top tier. He also loses to ZSS (-2) and to Fox (-1).

ZSS is like the only character in all of high/mid tier (ie high/mid on the current tier list) that doesn't have any solid disadvantages; all her MUs are manageable. She loses slightly to quite a few in top tier (MK Diddy Falco Oli Pikachu Wario), goes even with Marth/Snake, and her MU with ICs...well, the ZSS players think ICs are free and Vinnie thinks it's even, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's even. She then beats DDD, and slightly beats G&W and Kirby (and imo TL) and then goes even with the rest of the characters you mentioned. (some think Fox beats her but that MU is like never played out at any notable level)

Out of all the non-top-tier characters, the only ones I could see being above her are
-Fox (cause it's Fox and he's awesome), he has 2 hard counters, but Pikachu's pretty rare so he's probably easy to avoid. Outside of that he has a slightly better MU spread than ZSS.
-Wolf (cause I know nothing about this character so I can't say he's definitely worse than ZSS XD)
-Lucario (imo, but the MU chart tells a different story)
-Peach (imo but again the MU chart tells a different story. Her MU spread across top tier is decent but apparently she loses to quite a few of the non-top-tiers you mentioned LOL)

And even at that point I'd say that the placings of Fox, Wofl, ZSS, Lucario and Peach (relative to each other, as top 5 below top tier) is up in the air atm.

Not that I'm disagreeing with everything, but this post is horrible.

Characters like King Dedede, Fox, Wolf, Lucario, ZSS, TL, Peach, and GW can be basically called as decent. As this game's metagame is pretty limited there shouldn't be much positive tiers, outside of the current top tiers.

What you said about ZSS was very hypocritical. ZSS lacks really good matchups on the top tiers and you were saying how TL doesn't have any good top tier matchups. They have the same matchups pretty much. You also complained how Wolf and D3 have hard counters and yet thought Fox should be above just because you thought he was cool.

Also having a **** load of -1's =/= a good character. If a character doesn't have many good matchups then they aren't worth picking up as a main or secondary.

A weird thing is that you said Wolf should be above and below ZSS.

Also Lucario, Pit, and TL are high/mid tiers with no -2 matchups. This is like saying ZSS>Falco because of gravitychu and ice grabbers. Hell, you can even say Pit>Olimar because of ice grabbers.

Also, I'm pretty sure -2 matchups are definitely managable to a proper extent and literally every matchup is managable.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I fail to see on what basis people claim Diddy Kong to be top 3 in the current metagame.