Official BBR Tier List v5

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

in your example, you pick up falco to deal with zss, but then you play nick riddle who has apparently mastered the falco matchup and you get 3 stocked, where as if you had stuck with... mario, or... game and watch or something, you might have gotten a stock or two off, but you just mindlessly played falco because some ****** whos never even seen nick riddle play before and spends his practice time stomping out his friends thought lasers beat that character. I would rather not have a matchup chart entirely if it meant that people would actually learn how to play matchups in stead of going in blind just thinking, I 70-30 this character, and than getting ***** by vermanubis because he actually knows how to play his character.

trying to make short cuts like that will only served to get you stomped out later on.

The problem with this assumption is that the player you will CP is far greater in skill level, which your even outright saying the skill level isn't equal.

Also if you try to mindlessly pick up a character without learning the character or match-up, which in my example I said you needed to do, then you deserve to lose because anyone should know to learn a character when trying to play them before doing something like that.

 

[ShadowLink84]

but now people are agreeing with me.

People reading what you are saying is agreeing?
Riiiiiiiiight.

besides, Its gonna happen. and when its official, Im going to go through this whole schpiel again.

Riiiiiiiiight.
Just like how you felt DDD infinites should be banned

he shouldnt, but he will.

He won't, now shut up and play the game.

 

[Yikarur]

that K.I.D Hate

 

[DMG]

Sonic will not be high tier, and Pika will not be top tier unless IC's fall off the chart.

 

[Meru.]

If sonic gets to high tier, I'm gonna kill dmg's goldfish.

He should merely be top of D tier imo ;l.

Browny stfu

Every time I go into some random character board, like Lucas (jk I just like to troll Lucas) and read their match-up discussions almost no one with any experience posts and they always end with like "55/45 us because our projectile beats their approach game and we gimp them ok let's move on to sonic."

It's basically a joke, I can't believe you don't agree.

That kinda depends on the board though. Boards such as Lucas and Falcon are possibly too positive. Boards such as Zelda are just depressing. Boards such as Link and Sheik are quite accurate however (imo).

The main problem is that every board has a different ratio system, particularly lower tiers and higher ones, I guess. And the bias of particular players, of course.

 

[-LzR-]

Lucario boards ratio system is nuts. Ness boards ratio system is too positive. Everyone's always wrong.

 

[ShadowLink84]

that idiocy Hate

I hate idiocy, K.I.D. just happens to define it best.

At least Spelt takes the time to be entertaining.

 

[CardTheTrader]

Lol sonic high tier

 

[phi1ny3]

lol I knew there was going to be flak for doing it how the Pika boards did it.

Averaged ratios ftl

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lucario boards ratio system is nuts. Ness boards ratio system is too positive. Everyone's always wrong.

I'm thinking of a way to fix that, but I think it's gonna be fixed in the near future anyways.

lol I knew there was going to be flak for doing it how the Pika boards did it.

Averaged ratios ftl

Why did we do that in the first place?

Granted I wasn't in the LBR when those votes happened.

 

[Nestec]

I hate idiocy, K.I.D. just happens to define it best.

At least Spelt takes the time to be entertaining.

Lol...

But I like da K.I.D...

stuff

THIS guy on the other hand...

Spoiler

jk dawg

---

I want to hear from the people who do not believe Pikachu should make A Tier. What are your main reasons for thinking so?

:green:

 

[Orion*]

wow what a ridiculous generalising statement

well im not about to write some ****ing essay for this thread and if you think i am you are even more insane than i initially assumed -.-

I think snake sucks *** and the only thing he has going for him is his damage output
I think marth sucks *** and the only thing he has going for him is his sword

etc.

People acting as if aura is some separate ability is just stupid. Aura IS Lucario and it encompasses every aspect of him as a character, not some thing he can just pull outa nowhere to tip things in his favour (like bananas, starting a CG).

it is however im saying outside of his ONE ability he's really not that great, and his tools AT BEST are mediocre.

it allows him to punish me heavily if i make a mistake (shouldnt happen at top level)
and it does in some situations give him a few more options, however all aura really does for me imo is induce fear (which is very useful especially at mid levels of play because players are SERIOUS and want to win, but arent good enough to be flawless)

tbh if lucario was always at like 75% aura i wouldnt even consider him a threat as a character, i would main mario over that LOL but w/e'z. i dont even know why i bothered to write that much you are stuck in your own belief system for your main anyway

in some matchups aura makes him lose >.>

against heavies it makes it like impossible for him to come back ironically.

I'd prefer him to be at base power all the time personally :V

well thats technically only if you lose the first stock really.

although thats why snake, DK and ddd ect do really well outside of their actual tools of fighting the character against lucario.

idk about bowser vs lucario though sorry

ZSS/Falco just got a lot easier for me, I HAD NO IDEA you could just hold R to PS while crawling. That's hilarious.

???

You're a monster.

really stingers, i raged >_>

he shouldnt, but he will.

i hope you are wrong... really

edit: lol browny once again gets mad salty over my personal opinion that his character isnt that great. the ZSS boards got use to it, you need to also ;P

 

[Sinister Slush]

he shouldnt, but he will.

Sonic High tier? Holy...
Might as well say Yoshi is High tier...

 

[Poltergust]

I don't think Sonic and Yoshi are close enough to be compared.

Try Ike.

 

[Big Moose]

I don't think Sonic and Yoshi are close enough to be compared.

Try Ike.

One is all power and the other is all speed. They both suck.

 

[Spelt]

more like one is all gimmicks and the other is all gimmicks. They both suck.

 

[CardTheTrader]

Lol...

But I like da K.I.D...



THIS guy on the other hand...

Spoiler

jk dawg

---

I want to hear from the people who do not believe Pikachu should make A Tier. What are your main reasons for thinking so?

:green:

I can't see why Pika is not A tier Material
Results would also like to have a word with those people who think otherwise .

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Pikachu is in the same overall results boat as Olimar, ICs, Marth, and Wario, but with the least amount for that group (And yet the most MLG top showings out of the group, which kinda messed that up from a points system view of the results... *shrugs*). He also doesn't have quite the same amount of strengths/MU spread strengths as those above him. Too many neutralish MUs compared to the others from what I can remember off of the top of my head.

He also lacks a serious "can come back to hurt you at any time" threat. Olimar's grab game will always be a threat to your bad spacing. IC's grab game is obviously a threat at any time, and possibly a game changer when down from behind. Marth will always have a disjointed range advantage over most characters and a great spacing game. Wario will always have his insane mobility. Pikachu has his low to mid CGs, but what about once he's out of that range? What is his constant threat? He has fairly low range like Wario, but without the insane mobility to largely fix it.

Not to say he doesn't have his advantages. His recovery is very hard to gimp, with an extremely large range he can recover from. Thunder is deadly (if a tad predictable at times). His projectile isn't the scariest, but fairly spammable. His KOing power and options are subpar, but able to get the job done without solely relying on one move being fresh. It's just not quite enough for top tier.

 

[stingers]

really stingers, i raged >_>

lmao! sorry dude =p i was bored

 

[NickRiddle]

lmao! sorry dude =p i was bored

Well, I thought it was funny.

 

[Steam]

I do agree that aura does cause people to fear the character, but if he were always at 75 he'd be just as good considering he still hits rather hard at that %

but even with Aura Lucario will always be mediocre because everyone cept the top 6 are basically mediocre and will never win a national.

 

[CardTheTrader]

I do agree that aura does cause people to fear the character, but if he were always at 75 he'd be just as good considering he still hits rather hard at that %

but even with Aura Lucario will always be mediocre because everyone cept the top 6 are basically mediocre and will never win a national.

Ice Climbers
Olimar
Pikachu
D3

Are Surely not mediocre, and how can you say that they will never win a national, a some point or time someone besides the top 6 is going to win a national.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Ice Climbers
Olimar
Pikachu
D3

Are Surely not mediocre, and how can you say that they will never win a national, a some point or time someone besides the top 6 is going to win a national.

^^^
Never, other then Ice climbers since Lain has won one national before.

 

[Steam]

I really don't think wario belongs in the top 6 >.>

Olimar and pikachu can, I honestly would pull wario and maybe marth out of the top 6

so top 6-7 whatever. Either way all we've ever really seen winning big events are the top 4.

 

[CardTheTrader]

^^^
Never, other then Ice climbers since Lain has won one national before.

I could see ESAM winning a national
and when one of those chars. do win a national I'll be sure to bring up your post.

Watch It'' ll happen

 

[Seagull Joe]

I could see ESAM winning a national
and when one of those chars. do win a national I'll be sure to bring up your post.

Watch It'' ll happen

Are you Pikapika!? Cause he's the best Pikachu in New York.

 

[Orion*]

I do agree that aura does cause people to fear the character, but if he were always at 75 he'd be just as good considering he still hits rather hard at that %

but even with Aura Lucario will always be mediocre because everyone cept the top 6 are basically mediocre and will never win a national.

he would be just as good, "technically" but he wouldnt have the fear

and that **** causes people to choke/rage in tournament because you know if you make a mistake, despite lucario being at 180 and you being at 40%, and all of that work you put in keeping the lead, that you will still lose lol.

i actually found a really nice (non gay) way to play lucario with metaknight yesterday, although idk how itll work in tournament. sadly i dont think itll work for a lot of characters though -.-

 

[Browny]

edit: lol browny once again gets mad salty over my personal opinion that his character isnt that great. the ZSS boards got use to it, you need to also ;P

Lol I know you think Lucario is bad, I dont care about that and I acknowledge his weaknesses. What gets me is a whole lot of stupid reasons other people like to cite as to why he is bad, primarily that aura is a gimmick and that he would be bad without it. My analogy stands; attempting to judge Lucarios worth assuming aura is separate is as pointless as trying to judge marth without a sword. Aura IS him as a character. I'm not saying you were doing this btw, just most people do and your very short initial post left much room for interpretation.

it is however im saying outside of his ONE ability he's really not that great, and his tools AT BEST are mediocre.

it allows him to punish me heavily if i make a mistake (shouldnt happen at top level)
and it does in some situations give him a few more options, however all aura really does for me imo is induce fear (which is very useful especially at mid levels of play because players are SERIOUS and want to win, but arent good enough to be flawless)

See now this is MUCH better. Nobody is perfect and people make mistakes. Lucario players can make mistakes and get gimped early, other players can make a mistake and ledgehop into a full-charged aura sphere and die cheaply.

The issue is though, his 'tools' change with aura. his attacks become safer on block, will shield-stab more often and suddenly his jab cancels become very dangerous. Do you attempt to shield it and eat a force-palm grab KO? spotdodge and get fsmashed? Its not that simple to judge him when some of his attributes can change siginificantly throughout a match.

 

[CardTheTrader]

Are you Pikapika!? Cause he's the best Pikachu in New York.

*I can't believe i forgot about pika pika*
Ive beaten him in dittos
but he has better tourny results then me so im prob the 2nd

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

well im not about to write some ****ing essay for this thread and if you think i am you are even more insane than i initially assumed -.-

Failing back to insults as usual.

it is however im saying outside of his ONE ability he's really not that great, and his tools AT BEST are mediocre.

it allows him to punish me heavily if i make a mistake (shouldnt happen at top level)
and it does in some situations give him a few more options, however all aura really does for me imo is induce fear (which is very useful especially at mid levels of play because players are SERIOUS and want to win, but arent good enough to be flawless)

tbh if lucario was always at like 75% aura i wouldnt even consider him a threat as a character, i would main mario over that LOL but w/e'z. i dont even know why i bothered to write that much you are stuck in your own belief system for your main anyway

Being hit, grabbed, SDing are mistakes. You had ways to avoid it or not be put into that situation but instead you get hit.

I really don't see why you went for the insult of wanting to play Mario over him trying to say the character is that bad. It seems more like a cover up for the fact your rebuttal is weak as is.

Yeah without Aura he might be worse, but hey playing the, "What if" world doesn't matter when we're talking about reality.

well thats technically only if you lose the first stock really.

although thats why snake, DK and ddd ect do really well outside of their actual tools of fighting the character against lucario.

idk about bowser vs lucario though sorry

DDD is a bit more than his long living and nice kill power, his grab and now kill potential out of it.

Snake is because he hits hard, grenades and love livability.

DK can do these but unlike the other two he has a lot more trouble covering himself when he lands and can't really force a kill as well either.

edit: lol browny once again gets mad salty over my personal opinion that his character isnt that great. the ZSS boards got use to it, you need to also ;P

Meh, you have high opinions, which isn't bad, but going with the "LOL your an idiot" route with oneliners like you did when really, you haven't shown that you know much about the character or even why.

But yeah if it floats your boat to make out comments like that, I don't see why he can't call you out on it.

 

[Steam]

he would be just as good, "technically" but he wouldnt have the fear

and that **** causes people to choke/rage in tournament because you know if you make a mistake, despite lucario being at 180 and you being at 40%, and all of that work you put in keeping the lead, that you will still lose lol.

i actually found a really nice (non gay) way to play lucario with metaknight yesterday, although idk how itll work in tournament. sadly i dont think itll work for a lot of characters though -.-

you can also end up in a hole early as lucario since risk reward is so bad for him. If lucario outplays his opponent at the beginning of a match he won't have much to show for it since his damage output is balls.

and if you SD at just about any point it's game over against like half the roster due to aura.

his main problem is not really having a niche, just kinda being decent at everything. and there are plenty of characters that are decent at everything while also being really good at one thing. soooo yeah.

 

[Big Moose]

more like one is all gimmicks and the other is all gimmicks. They both suck.

That too, swore I was going to get slammed by Sonic fans..

 

[Blacknight99923]

I wonder if shadow link knows flaming people doesn't make you smart or help create a better discussion when all it does it provide some sense of self worth and cause degeneracy to the thread.


I can't see pikachu moving into top tier however within the next 6 months

 

[Mr.-0]

Now it doesn't seem so weird when I say chu should be top 5. Another person above me even said Olimar should be top 6th.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Note the lack of anyone giving any supporting evidence for those ideas.

 

[Coney]

*make completely outrageous claim*

if unproven: no one remembers because it was outrageous

if proven: I AM A BRAWL PRODIGY

 

[Nidtendofreak]

*make completely outrageous claim*

if unproven: no one remembers because it was outrageous

if proven: I AM A BRAWL PRODIGY

I totally didn't do that with PT or anything like that.

So, hm...how about Mario? I'm thinking he should drop for the same reason people seem to think Peach should drop (lots of BUT HE CAN DO THIS! With no results.) Discuss?

 

[Kole]

Spoiler

Jigglypuff will place 7th in a national

 

[Spelt]

Note the lack of anyone giving any supporting evidence for those ideas.

Next you're going to demand people back up their dreams with evidence.

*make completely outrageous claim*

if unproven: no one remembers because it was outrageous

if proven: I AM A BRAWL PRODIGY

Hey, hey. This happen(ed/s) all the time in other smash games too.
Gotta give respect to those melee prodigies, yo.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Next you're going to demand people back up their dreams with evidence.

Sounds good to me. Don't be silly.