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It's completely feasible to play on ground holding a all the time in neutral imo, but it's a lot of work. I practiced it a bit when I played pm, since in pm you could pivot with c-stick if you hold down a.Incredible post Kadano!
So does the Z-PS not have 3 frames of GuardReflect Projectiles? Does it only increase the window because of spacing?
Also what would happen if you buffered Z then pressed shoulder click the first frame? I can imagine the other way around definitely won't work because you dont get GuardReflect from a buffered shoulder click.
I think Wd in Place is likely the universal fastest and probably safest way to start holding A. Although Peach can DJL.
Probably, all preference. Holding the shoulder to just before the click, then holding Y+X+Start for a few seconds, is pretty convenient for this.Wow I'm actually getting decently consistent at that z-ps thing, really cool technique, would removing trigger springs make it easier to hit both z and a trigger on the same frame?
The dream of a lifetime!@ Kadano Excellent work! And you just got liked by the god himself Magus420 .
I honestly believe that Z-PS will be the solution against Falco’s lasers and, to a lesser degree, spacies’ shield pressure. Z-PSA with Ganondorf against incoming attacks should have a 4-5 frame window most of the time. The CPU PS jab probably will become one of his go-to answers against aggressive approaches, and Pikachu with his jab (and maybe ftilt?) can do the same.I feel zps could be very useful for chars that have poor shields, like pikachu, dk etc, and the fact that you can ps with smaller shields is huge. I've always felt that if I miss first ps or maybe two, it becomes very hard for the next ones. It also feels useful vs slow projectiles.
My current plan is drafting a mega-thread with the preliminary title “Kadano’s visual reference to competitive Melee” and put all of these posts and tables within the first 16 posts of that thread. I think it’s time we get a comprehensive resource that makes the most of the incredible visual portraying power of the blessed develop mode.Should we make a separate thread for this?
As @ T tauKhan wrote, not really. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is running shine. For that, you need to input down on the control stick and B at the very same frame as well. By removing the spring from L, maybe additionally disattaching the L trigger from the L pot to make sure to avoid analog shield and decreasing the L DP rubber plate’s resistance, Z-PS should be just as easy to execute as running shine. Apart from holding A,but that’s not difficult. Although I personally feel that having to hold down A makes L more suited for the DP input; pressing A, Z and R at the same time with my right hand has me only holding the controller with the two smallest fingers of my right hand, which doesn’t feel that good and reliable. I always feel like the controller could slip out of my hands any moment.Is the timing for the inputs of the z-ps similar to jc grab or boost grab?
Thanks, I knew I had left out a couple of things. Well, after seven hours non-stop working on that post through the night, I kind of wanted to have it published before smashboards decides to go into nightly backup mode and have my draft lost, haha. So the post is not complete yet, but I’m working to have it that way soon.What about shield pushback? Does Z-PS just factor the normal Powershield pushback or does the lightshield stack onto it?
This is correct. It’s still a two-frame window as in that the incoming hitbox needs to hit your PSS on the first two frames of activation, but whenever your disjointed Z-PSS (Z-Powershield sphere) range is larger than the movement speed of the incoming hitbox, there’s a chance of the window increasing by z frames, where z is approximately the disjointed Z-PSS range at a given vector divided by the incoming hitbox’s vector speed. For (near-)stationary hitboxes, the frame window for Z-PSS is effectively as long as the hitbox’s duration, but the same is true with N-PSS except that it’s less likely for the hitbox to connect with the smaller N-PSS than with the huge Z-PSS.So does the Z-PS not have 3 frames of GuardReflect Projectiles? Does it only increase the window because of spacing?
Yeah, pressing Z even one frame earlier than R-DP (R digital press) always resulted in me entering GuardOn instead of GuardReflect , which, as you implied, does not have powershield properties.Also what would happen if you buffered Z then pressed shoulder click the first frame? I can imagine the other way around definitely won't work because you dont get GuardReflect from a buffered shoulder click.
I think so as well. Z-PS → wavedash (hold A again during LFS (LandingFallSpecial) → Z-PS and so on seems really feasible now.I think Wd in Place is likely the universal fastest and probably safest way to start holding A. Although Peach can DJL.
Yes, see my response to Sebovich earlier in this very post.Wow I'm actually getting decently consistent at that z-ps thing, really cool technique, would removing trigger springs make it easier to hit both z and a trigger on the same frame?
Ah yes, you actually can.#ChurchOfKadano
Really informative!
Is it possible to hold A whilst dashing and using the new Powershield?
Ps. Pls stop using CD-I Zelda references - they're not funny, although really creepy, haha
Wait how do you do this? What part is the L pot? I have spring removed but the resistance in the full press of L/R is pretty heavy in new controllers, would prefer them to be lighter..maybe additionally disattaching the L trigger from the L pot to make sure to avoid analog shield and decreasing the L DP rubber plate’s resistance
Anxiously waiting for this.My current plan is drafting a mega-thread with the preliminary title “Kadano’s visual reference to competitive Melee” and put all of these posts and tables within the first 16 posts of that thread. I think it’s time we get a comprehensive resource that makes the most of the incredible visual portraying power of the blessed develop mode.
You discovered Z-PS, so I’m willing to bow down to your choices regarding how to document this from now on. I’m also open to / interested in working together with you to create the aforementioned mega-thread. I think we have very similar goals and ways of approaching this.
Won't work, a buffered shoulder press does not initiate GuardReflect (powershield).In regards to this technique, would it be viable to input a wavedash while still holding the digital L trigger down, then maybe initiate a Z button press as soon as the wavedash has ended?
Inside the controller there's a little slider that your analog triggers slide over and attach to, that's the potentiometer (pot).Wait how do you do this? What part is the L pot? I have spring removed but the resistance in the full press of L/R is pretty heavy in new controllers, would prefer them to be lighter..
Won't work, a buffered shoulder press does not initiate GuardReflect (powershield).
Guys something really weird is happening when I do this with Yoshi. He turns tangible and there is a tiny green dot in the middle of him, can't tell what kind of shield it is.
I think it's normal shield, blue+yellow=green?
Not sure what the timing on this is, no dolphin.
Edit:
I managed to reflect a laser, but it may of been from the first frame. I think he is invincible with normal powershield on frame 1, then frame 2-6 like the above pic.
edit2:
Figured out the timing. Frame 1 - Lightshield (can use shoulder) Frame 2 - Fullshield
Was this known before? It must of been, yet I've never seen it before.
Damn that's a bummer. Do you know why this happens, or is it just an unfortunate overlooked bug?Yeah, this is known by Yoshi players. It's the reason we trigger trick our controllers. Parrying only works properly with a frame 1 digital press.
When you say "feel like", do you mean you want it to work like that or that you believe it already works like that?I feel like you should be able to do this while holding the c-stick instead of A if you want.
I'm not sure why (though I haven't spent a ton of time trying to figure it out). There are a lot of weird things about Yoshi that seem like oversights, like Yoshi not being able to buffer spotdodges.Damn that's a bummer. Do you know why this happens, or is it just an unfortunate overlooked bug?
I think one dude was saying you can do it out of a wavedash. very lazy of me to not read thru and look it was on this page too hahahahah.Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems pretty situational considering you'd have to already have the A button held down. If I'm understanding this correctly, you wouldn't be able to do this out of a dash or anything