Official 2010-2011 Super Smash Bros. Melee MBR Tier List

[trahhSTEEZY]

Wtf even is this? At least talk about melee m2k >_>

This is sad, m2k is good for more than just melee look at that he basically just guessed the tier list for mk64 based off his opinion!

M2K MAKE THE MELEE TIER LIST

 

[P. O. F.]

Didn't even know there was a legit tier list for mk64. I have been using peach for years and always had a feeling she was bust.


Otg-I loved your statement. Prolly because smash is just a bunch of kids?

 

[Merkuri]

I think a lot more people would like this tier list if they didn't change what each tier represents.

It should be.


TOP

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HIGH

UPPER MID

MIDDLE

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LOWER MID

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LOW

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BOTTOM

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Textual Form

TOP
Fox/Falco/Puff

HIGH
Sheik
Marth

UPPER MID
Peach
Falcon

MIDDLE
Ice Climbers
Samus/Ganon
Doc Mario

LOWER MID
Mario/Pikachu
Luigi/DK
Link

LOW
Zelda
Mewtwo
Roy/Young Link
Game and Watch

BOTTOM
Yoshi/Pichu/Bowser/Ness/Kirby

 

[Teczer0]

OMG, Teczero, your awesome! ^^

and yeah I know what you mean.. i was just trying to flip the thread around, and talk about "nice" things, rather than all of us argue, and start unecessary flaming and stuff...

Sorry if it was a bad idea. i was jus tryin to think of something

Haha no dude, I appreciate the thought. Its fine and <3333 play more and post vids of your yoshi. Joey says you're too good in fighting games so hurry up and move yoshi up a tier =3

The tier list for Mario Kart 64 is as follows:

Upper:
Yoshi
Peach
Toad

Middle:
Bowser
DK
Wario

Lower:
Mario
Luigi

The Upper characters have identical stats except for weight, and Yoshi is slightly heavier than Peach (if the two collide, Peach will spin out). Middle and Lower characters also have identical stats, but the heavyweights are significantly heavier than Mario and Luigi, though both pairs of Wario/DK and Mario/Luigi are very small in differences.

>______________>

This is sad, m2k is good for more than just melee look at that he basically just guessed the tier list for mk64 based off his opinion!

M2K MAKE THE MELEE TIER LIST

m2k did make a tier list (or at least I"m sure he had to have by now...) in this thread.

okay so .. I didn't expect to have to say this so soon but....

Stay on topic about melee and the tier list. Why you like it, hate it, etc. I'll start infracting/warning with less leniency if you guys go off-topic too often.

Talk about melee and this tier list... yay thx =3

 

[Djent]

blah blah blah, impressive wall of flawless logic and reasoning, etc.

I wish this were FB and I could like this post.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Haha no dude, I appreciate the thought. Its fine and <3333 play more and post vids of your yoshi. Joey says you're too good in fighting games so hurry up and move yoshi up a tier =3

Haha, yeah i'm gonna try man.. I wanna show everyone that Yoshi's pretty cool =) or at least try ^^ haha Yeah i'm pretty good at fighting games or at least I try to be ^^ umm tell Joey, I miss him, take care of that kid for me ^^ he's like my brother yeah i'll get to work on the Yoshi! ^^

In other news: so what's everyone's insights on.... well "possible" changes in this list, try and back w/necessary reasoning etc..

Again: idk if this is a good idea >> but i'm trying

 

[P. O. F.]

I just would honestly like to see two things:

Valid points for why fox is not in his own tier.

Same for why sheik is better than marth.

I have yet to hear good points to persuade me to agree with this "let's make this tier list so no one argues" bull.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

because fox isn't so good to the point where he deserves his own tier, falco and puff alone can trash him up. so why would he?

 

[KAOSTAR]

I just would honestly like to see two things:

Valid points for why fox is not in his own tier.

Same for why sheik is better than marth.

I have yet to hear good points to persuade me to agree with this "let's make this tier list so no one argues" bull.

has fox ever been in his own tier?

you are literally the only person ive seen say this.

why don't you explain why fox should have his own tier.

marth sucks sheik *****. m2k gets off.
/end post

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

A tier list should be 100% opinion. It shouldn't be based on match-ups or tournament results. We have ways to represent those already. A tier list should be the opinion of the top players of how well a character could do in a tournament situation (not how well a character does)

 

[DJMirror]

but later after that doesn't vegeta ultimately win with goku after going ss4? holy **** ****

You mean getting carried?


Since you wanna be that way with your sig...

 

[The Good Doctor]

but later after that doesn't vegeta ultimately win with goku after going ss4? holy **** ****

Dude, GT isn't even canon....gtfo

 

[-MCT-]

Last time I checked, Gengar was overused.

 

[asianaussie]

gengar has paper defences and sub does 25% to him with every use and items are banned, no life orb or ability to use trick, levitate is dumb since the only eq user is dk

all pokemon moves are the same so shadow ball is pretty meh, even with stab, focus miss still sucks

this tier list is cool though

 

[MarioMariox2]

I think a lot more people would like this tier list if they didn't change what each tier represents.

It should be.


TOP

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HIGH

UPPER MID

MIDDLE

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LOWER MID

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LOW

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BOTTOM

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I actually would like the tier list more since Mario would sound better as a character. But I'm fine I guess, Mario went up by 2 and isn't far from Doc.

 

[Kason Birdman]

you leave a thread for a day and it goes to hell...

MK64? what is even going on anymore?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

don't be mean then mirror!

 

[DarkDragoon]

gengar has paper defences and sub does 25% to him with every use and items are banned, no life orb or ability to use trick, levitate is dumb since the only eq user is dk

all pokemon moves are the same so shadow ball is pretty meh, even with stab, focus miss still sucks

this tier list is cool though

More people need to show this post some love.
-DD

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Guys stop responding to off topic things. Stay on topic.

 

[KAOSTAR]

A tier list should be 100% opinion. It shouldn't be based on match-ups or tournament results. We have ways to represent those already. A tier list should be the opinion of the top players of how well a character could do in a tournament situation (not how well a character does)

yea but what ******* is about to argue that this isn't based off opinion.

any good opinion is based off something. unless you want it to be based off poorly formed opinions then drop that thought where it is.

you would never reach ANY sort of consensus purely from opinion. its the reason people are disagreeing with the list now.

Im sure more than tourney and MUs were considered to some degree.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i would say you should base your opinion on your personal matches and not videos or tournament results or anything like that. Why? Because you can't understand how much is the player making good decisions and reads and how much is the character has unless you play against the players yourself.

theres a difference between what a player can use and abuse with any character and what a specific character brings to the table, and i think a lot of people forget while characters vary in terms of how their moves work that they follow a lot of the same principles. This is a what mango did to beat a lot of people with mario.

The only big problem i see with this is that opinions can vary a lot. I think it would be necessary to have a group of clear thinking and high level players (such as the MBR... hopefully) in order to discuss this topic effectively.

 

[Laijin]

A tier list IMO should be based off of match ups based purely on the current metagame at a general high play level. NOT based off the performance of 1 or 2 players.

These two things seem to get mixed up quite a bit in this community. x__x

 

[stingers]

a tier list should be based off the opinions of everyone in the mbr not just 2 people

lol

 

[Strong Badam]

Maybe the tier list could be based off of match-ups like in every other fighting game.
Oh, wait, we're too stupid and haven't analyzed all of the match-ups enough. ****.

 

[BEES]

the new list is exactly 100% what I thought it would look like

the only thing that surprised me was that they actually got around to posting it

 

[t3h Icy]

Well over half of them never, ever get played.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I agree it should be based on match-ups, but for some reason I dont think the value system we use is what should determine a tier list.

If I ask someone "how good" a character is, i'm not asking for the quantitative values of each match-up mathematically weighted against each other until equilibrium.


edit- thats not to say i dont like the match-up chart. i like it for what it is... not a tier list.

 

[BEES]

It isn't JUST matchups, it's matchups combined with popularity of the characters. Shiek, for instance, might be top of the tier list if we weighed all of her great matchups against low tiers. Her performance against the other top 8 most used characters is what really matters in tournaments though, and it is worse than Fox/Falco/Jiggs.

Then of course there's a lot of white noise in our understanding of matchups below the top 8-12.

 

[n1000]

When the match up chart is finalized I plan to use MATH to devise a useful character ranking. There are two substantial theoretical advantages here: First, the list will be produced systematically with methods available and open to criticism. Second, the match up chart is quite a reliable source. It is less controversial to say "Ganon has an advantage when fighting the Ice Climbers" than to argue that one character is generally *better* than the other.

EDIT: LOL Sveet, you took the wind right out of my sails. (this list is still going to kick ***)

 

[t3h Icy]

It isn't JUST matchups, it's matchups combined with popularity of the characters. Shiek, for instance, might be top of the tier list if we weighed all of her great matchups against low tiers. Her performance against the other top 8 most used characters is what really matters in tournaments though, and it is worse than Fox/Falco/Jiggs.

Then of course there's a lot of white noise in our understanding of matchups below the top 8-12.

That's why you do weighted match-ups.

 

[Laijin]

Maybe the tier list could be based off of match-ups like in every other fighting game.
Oh, wait, we're too stupid and haven't analyzed all of the match-ups enough. ****.

This.
I feel like the smash community is literally less intelligent than most other communities because we can't figure this out. Every other fighting game community in the world uses match ups to determine tiers. It makes the most sense and they do change with the meta game.

So why are we so different? I don't get it

 

[victra♥]

im gonna have to agree with SB and Laijin

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

@BEES:

I was talking about "how good" a character is
Then I was talking about match-ups/match-up rating
You were talking about match-ups/popularity
Then you were talking about match-ups/match-up rating

Popularity has no correlation to match-up performance, except that match-up performance decreases the popularity of characters over time.

But the MBR did the right thing with this tier list, I think. I agree with it a lot, and I can understand why they chose the things I disagree with. I would want to break the tie, but everyone has different opinions on that.

 

[Laijin]

The tier list is literally this:

"lol oh man player X is currently absolutely ****** with character Y. Therefore character Y is better than character A B and C. Lets bump him up on the tier list despite the fact that character Y actually still sucks and the only player thats ****** with character Y is player X. Oh wait..doesn't that just mean that player X is better than everyone else and not the character? No no no..that can't be true. It makes too much sense. "

This is how I see the tier list being made lol

 

[n1000]

Though smashboards is sort of a ship of fools don't bash us for not having character rankings based on match ups. We do have a match up chart which orders the characters in the same way as any other fighting game's community does it.

We however, have multiple rankings. We have the match-up chart, the character rankings list (based on tournament results) and the tier list (based on a few high-level players' take on the present metagame.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Thats how i see a bad tier list being made. That logic sux

 

[stingers]

mewtwo has taj and iori.
young link has nobody and never has.

stop johning

 

[victra♥]

y.link had caveman but that was way back in the day

 

[Laijin]

mewtwo has taj and iori.
young link has nobody and never has.

stop johning

When did I defend YL in my previous few posts?
I'm talking about the tier list in general. lol

 

[stingers]

yeah, sorry, you're right. i just assume every post you make is about young link ._.