[Oct 4-5, 2014] The Big House 4: feat. Mango, Armada, Mew2King, Hungrybox, Prof Pro (Romulus, MI)

[Joe73191]

So excited for this!

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Are we doing Lains Stupid Rule or not?

 

[NeXi2]

Out of curiosity, why 3 stock 6 min in PM?

 

[Juggleguy]

Out of curiosity, why 3 stock 6 min in PM?

3 stock 8 minutes, actually. I've discussed this with @ Strong Badam , the main PM organizer, and we agree this is in the best interest of the tournament. I'm sure he can elaborate further.

 

[Coffeemug]

I like the PM changes, should make those matches more interesting.

 

[sneakytako]

3 stock 8 minutes, actually. I've discussed this with @ Strong Badam , the main PM organizer, and we agree this is in the best interest of the PM tournament. I'm sure he can elaborate further.

As much I respect that this is your tournament with you being the authority to decide rule sets, I'm worried that such a big change at a National will be taken... ungracefully lets just say.

I've opened up a separate thread here to consolidate people's opinions, I hope that you can present some sound logic to ease our worries. (Is this rule set change a necessity based on the logistics of running the tournament, or do you feel that this is the most appropriate rule set for the current meta of the game?)

In the meantime, we might look into adopting this ruleset in our locals for preparation, but I would appreciate some prompt feedback.

 

[Juggleguy]

As much I respect that this is your tournament with you being the authority to decide rule sets, I'm worried that such a big change at a National will be taken... ungracefully lets just say.

I've opened up a separate thread here to consolidate people's opinions, I hope that you can present some sound logic to ease our worries.

In the meantime, we might look into adopting this ruleset in our locals for preparation, but I would appreciate some prompt feedback.

We've done some basic time studies on the Top 8s of the past few Project M majors and compared them to the Top 8s of the past few Melee majors. Completely excluding downtime between sets, PM has a much higher average set length and a much larger standard deviation of set length. Both of these parameters are extremely important considerations when planning the schedule for a national tournament operation like this. More importantly, both of these parameters are outside the TO staff's control given the current standard ruleset. I've run through the calculations several times already and can put together a brief summary if you want to see one.

There are a few reasons why it matters a lot that PM has a higher average set length and higher variance than Melee. We do multiple waves for each block of time on the schedule for tournaments like this in order to accommodate dual-game entrants such that they have no overlapping tournament obligations. Melee and PM both have to start and finish within the constraints of these waves, which means simply bringing more setups wouldn't necessarily solve the problem of uneven gameplay time as it probably would at a single-game tournament. Furthermore, the effect of set length and variance is magnified when Top 8s roll around and only one set is being played at a time. We have approximately 25 hours of tournament time to work with over the weekend, and every minute counts.

I understand that some players may be put off by the change in stock count, but I'd like to point out that PM has seen new releases preceding big tournaments on short notice before. This ruleset change is being clearly communicated starting on day one of registration, so everyone has equal footing on any adaptation required from it. We all want to give PM main event treatment, with both singles pools and a doubles event; considering our expected turnout and window of time over the weekend, a slight change in ruleset is necessary in order to accomplish that. This isn't meant to be an assertion that all other PM tourneys should convert to three stock, by the way. It's just a necessary step for Big House in particular to take, all circumstances considered.

Again, paging @ Strong Badam for further thoughts.

 

[sneakytako]

We've done some basic time studies on the Top 8s of the past few Project M majors and compared them to the Top 8s of the past few Melee majors. Completely excluding downtime between sets, PM has a much higher average set length and a much larger standard deviation of set length. Both of these parameters are extremely important considerations when planning the schedule for a national tournament operation like this. More importantly, both of these parameters are outside the TO staff's control given the current standard ruleset. I've run through the calculations several times already and can put together a brief summary if you want to see one.

I understand that some players may be put off by the change in stock count, but I'd like to point out that PM has seen new releases preceding big tournaments on short notice before. This ruleset change is being clearly communicated starting on day one of registration, so everyone has equal footing on any adaptation required from it. We all want to give PM main event treatment, with both singles pools and a doubles event; considering our expected turnout and window of time over the weekend, a slight change in ruleset is necessary in order to accomplish that. This isn't meant to be an assertion that all other PM tourneys should convert to three stock at all, by the way. This is just a necessary step for Big House in particular to take, all circumstances considered.

Again, paging @ Strong Badam for further thoughts.

I would actually like to see the data for comparison of the average/sigma for the top 8 matches for melee and PM, that seems like very useful data in general.

In terms of how it made you decide to change the rule set I'm less interested in, I trust you know how to run tournaments better than anyone else. But if I were to interpret this rule set change as a necessity based on the limitations of the tournament vs the amount of time needed, would you agree?

EDIT: Actually I would like to know how much time you foresee saving based on the 3 stock rule change. (a raw 25%?)

Also, as a side note do you think other tournaments should continue using the 4 stock rule, or would you recommend rule set review based on the outcome of your tournament?

The last question is probably better answered by strong bad.

 

[Celestis]

never mind

 

[Strong Badam]

Posted this in the other thread but I figured I'd post it here as well:

Hey, so there are a decent number of reasons we're gonna run 3 stock at Big House 4 but here's the main gist of things.

The Big House will always treat Melee and Project M equally in terms of production quality, tournament format (given entrant counts allow it), promotion, etc.. In addition, at The Big House, we employ a large number of logistical time savers in order to run both games efficiently that quite frankly, other tournaments don't do. Despite this, Rob (Juggleguy) and I both had reservations regarding how efficiently we could run PM this year due to our projections on attendance for both games as well as our own monitoring of tournament completion time at other events. To put it simply, the average PM match takes longer than the average Melee match (the reasons for this aren't particularly relevant to us as TOs, we have to address it regardless), despite there being approximately 0 timeouts. To ensure that we're able to give Project M the treatment it deserves with regards to stream time, tournament format, Bo5 Sets, etc. etc., we've decided to run 3 stock. I ran 3 stock during pools at MELEE-FC Legacy in order to make up lost time, and had no complaints from any of the players at the event.
Please don't let the ruleset cloud your judgment on whether or not to attend. The Big House is the best Smash tournament series, and if you ask anyone who has attended a previous Big House they'll tell you the same. We're making this decision because with our experience and expertise in TOing we feel it's the best route to take. We hope you understand and have a great time at our event. As a high level Project M player myself, the stock # should definitely not prevent our ruleset from still determining the better player.

Thanks,
Strong Bad

 

[sneakytako]

Thank you juggleguy and strong bad for your prompt responses, it cleared up a lot for me.

But I would like the other stuff answered too.

 

[Strong Badam]

We don't expect to see a raw 25% time saved, because there are other things that contribute to set time such as, character/stage selection, control setup, etc. etc. but the time saved will be significant enough that we will be able to run Project M in the format we want to (round robin pools, proper streaming of the top 8 of bracket, etc).

Unless tournaments are completing at ungodly hours, the 4-stock ruleset is perfectly usable for PM tournaments. Big House 4 is just a different beast entirely and we are projecting a huge turnout here and NEED to get done by a specific time. For us, going even 30 minutes behind schedule is unacceptable.

 

[standardtoaster]

I'll definitely be making this. I'll be flying out, though. I won't be able to bring all of my TVs. I'll bring at least 3 cubes and 3 wiis. I'm still looking for a melee disc so I can have 4 melee setups lol

 

[CTL17]

Make sure you set your alarm correctly for Sunday.

 

[Juggleguy]

Registration has been launched! Visit www.umsmash.com to register today.

Key Dates:
July 15: Registration Opens
August 15: Venue Fee increases
September 15: Venue fee increases
September 20: Hotel Booking Deadline
September 20: Tournament Registration Deadline

Please make sure to read all rules, code of conduct, and other information before registering!

 

[Seagull Joe]

Why is dracula's castle a CP, but distant planet is not? I feel like it should be the reverse. DC is far worse then DP.

 

[mudkyp]

Basically me since the announcement at Super SWEET. This is THE smash tournament I look forward to every year. Cannot wait!

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

looking to attend this event, but i abhor traveling afar to tournaments only to play smash. i'm hoping to be able to explore the history, cuisine, and architecture that detroit has to offer if i come up to this.

does anyone know of someone that could house for a few days in detroit before the tournament? i plan on staying at the venue hotel from friday to sunday, so i'm looking to explore from monday to thursday.

 

[Nintendude]

looking to attend this event, but i abhor traveling afar to tournaments only to play smash. i'm hoping to be able to explore the history, cuisine, and architecture that detroit has to offer if i come up to this.

does anyone know of someone that could house for a few days in detroit before the tournament? i plan on staying at the venue hotel from friday to sunday, so i'm looking to explore from monday to thursday.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbad...-2013-list-of-americas-most-miserable-cities/

 

[Juggleguy]

looking to attend this event, but i abhor traveling afar to tournaments only to play smash. i'm hoping to be able to explore the history, cuisine, and architecture that detroit has to offer if i come up to this.

does anyone know of someone that could house for a few days in detroit before the tournament? i plan on staying at the venue hotel from friday to sunday, so i'm looking to explore from monday to thursday.

FYI, this tournament isn't actually in Detroit, the airport is just named Detroit Metro Airport after the nearest big city.

Ann Arbor is actually closer to the venue, and is approximately 100x more fun to explore. Go there instead.

 

[BigWenz]

FYI, this tournament isn't actually in Detroit, the airport is just named Detroit Metro Airport after the nearest big city.

Ann Arbor is actually closer to the venue, and is approximately 100x more fun to explore. Go there instead.

also 100000000000000x safer.

 

[Coffeemug]

GO TO THE PIZZA HOUSE. We went there one night after Super Sweet when we were exploring the city. A+ pizza and cool place.

 

[bts.mongoose]

Seems like a great first tournament.
(:

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Sweet. Hit me up again if you are coming

Can't come Money issues sorry

 

[NickRiddle]

I wanna go.

 

[Bryonato]

Will definitely be here. Curious as to why Drac's is legal instead of Skyworld (or why Drac's in legal in general) in PM?

 

[Strong Badam]

The stagelist for PM is subject to change at the moment. Think it's just last years for now.

 

[standardtoaster]

Booked a room! See you all there.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Smash 4 3DS hype... :'(

Super-maybe here!

 

[ShinsuYavi]

Registered and planning to bring a setup for the first time!
Can't wait! \o/

 

[Naryx]

I know this may be the wrong place to post this but i am wanting to attend this year and was wondering where i would need to post to ask for housing assistance/ride assistance, not sure if there are any people in my area going but i didn't see a thread in the tournament discussion thread for this event yet. thank you in advance.

 

[Master Raven]

I might go.

 

[Strong Badam]

Smash 4 3DS hype... :'(

Super-maybe here!

just go dude

 

[JakieWinks]

Is it safe to assume that the venue discounts stack depending on the number of setups I bring, similar to super sweet?

 

[Juggleguy]

Is it safe to assume that the venue discounts stack depending on the number of setups I bring, similar to super sweet?

Yes.

Just keep in mind each full setup has to include a CRT TV of at least 15+ inches and be available for TO staff to borrow until Sunday evening.

 

[JakieWinks]

Yes.

Just keep in mind each full setup has to include a CRT TV of at least 15+ inches and be available for TO staff to borrow until Sunday evening.

Alright cool, thanks!

 

[Espi]

Some BC people might be coming

 

[NickRiddle]

So, for anybody in the Atl. South area who is interested in going here, VS Gaming Center in South Florida is hosting a sponsorship tournament for both Melee and PM.
Click here for the FB event.

 

[pluto]

i absolutely cannot wait for october. this is going to be my first tournament AND sm4sh comes out the day before. can't wait to meet some of you and finally be surrounded by people who love the game. it's been a long time coming and i've heard nothing but good things about Big House tournaments. +++excited.

 

[Achilles1515]

If anyone would like this for their Melee ISO,

Big House 4 Pokemon Stadium (GrPs).usd

Use GC-Tool or GCR to replace the GrPs.usd file with the new one.