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Ocarina' is like Steins;Gate

Ocarina' is like Steins;Gate

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
dude it's raining submitted a new guide:

Ocarina' is like Steins;Gate - To save the world you have to erase the memory of the adventures you shared with her...

Sheik



Moveset:

Go here for frame data.

Jab
Sheik's jab is in the fastest jab class, coming out frame 2 and having only 13 frames endlag. It's a nice launcher for comboing.
The "lloD" combo is Jab -> Ftilt.
It's also good for Jab Resetting until around 40% on most characters.
Fun Fact: Sheik's first jab will hone in on...
Read more about this guide...
 

IONTheKid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
29
Location
New Jersey
Nice guide, would you happen to know about the Sheik Marth matchup? This is one that I constantly struggle with. Yesterday at a local I faced a campy Marth with good spacing who won the tournament basically because of his dash dances and wally fairs. The guy just wouldn't let me in. I managed to get 2 stocks off him because I hit a few boostgrabs and spotdodges while he was dashdancing and I was trying to bait him but I can't be satisfied with that. I actually have a clip of it too, the matches at 6:00, and at 28:30 were the two that I fought against him. I need help with the matchup overall, if you can crtique me that'd be great. Thank you!
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
I too struggle with that matchup, but I'm working on it.
The things I'm trying to utilize right now are full hop charge needles -> needle cancel, which covers a lot of space and can get a grab. Also you just gotta bait out his swings and then move in.
I've heard PPMD say that marth should never spot dodge, b/c dashdance back is always a better option.
A strategy I'm gonna try next tourney is to instead of handwarmers, do some mindwarmers and really think about marth's zonage and refresh in my mind which of my moves I can use to sneak around his sword.

I don't know if you forgot the link to you vid, but I'm defninitely willing to check it out.
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
Match analysis stuff:
You rolled on the platform when you could just do neutral getup for less endlag (I do that all the time too on accident).
Those shino stalls have to be perfect. I used to mess those up so much in tourney too. I practice it on event 50 with master/crazy hand trying their best to distract. Sometimes I even swing my head around while shino stalling to make sure that if I can do it while swinging my head around, I can do it under tourney pressure.
Rolling for movement is not good. He picked up on that habit of yours and spaced himself accordingly. Wavedash OoS is really good against marth, and in general too, since it's so much faster than letting go of shield.
There's a cool post about how fairing actually extends your ledgegrab box, but it doesn't boost, so no need to cram them in.

Lol, sick edgehog even after the windmill messed you up.
Your late fairs are so good!
Your first Uair from the ledge was really good, but he picked up on the fact that you liked doing it again. I do that kind of thing too where something works and I keep throwing out to try to figure out when it does and doesn't work.
There were a lot of really good things you did. I think one of the things tho is that his play was a lot simpler than yours. Marth's dashdance is so much better than sheik's that he can just swing back and forth while you have to put a lot of effort into your movement, which gives him extra time in his brain for strategizing. And I've found that it's really obnoxious when I'm doing tricky movement and a marth just throws out a randy fsmash and it tippers me b/c I was trying to be fancy.

M2K has said about edgeguarding marth: grab the ledge to force him to upB on stage, then either: 1) roll immediately then punish with a ground move or 2) stay on the ledge and punish with an aerial, etc. IMO it is very important for sheik to be capable of quickly grabbing the ledge to give her access to invincible aerials and ledgedashed stuff, etc. I might add to the guide stuff about fast falling to the ledge.
 
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IONTheKid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
29
Location
New Jersey
Yeah i'm going to put on the instant death mod from rolling in 20xx and spend a couple hours playing her. I was really flustered while playing him so I was rolling on accident and sort of panicking, it's a bad habit of mine but i'll try to stomp it out. The edge stalls are another thing i'm working on but thanks for the positive and negative critique I really appreciate it. I actually only learned Shino edge stalling about 2 weeks ago so it's still not perfect. But thanks a bunch! Are there any tips you have about what I can do while he's dash dancing?
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
Run away and needle maybe? Try your best to pressure him into commitment. I'm trying to brainstorm specific strategies, but I don't have time to actually playtest anything until after this exam in an hour teehee
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
Did you happen to find anything I could improve about my guide besides the incomplete MU section? I feel kinda unqualified which is why I linked to a lot of stuff, but I wanted this guide to be out there for the beginners who check the guides section but don't know how to dig into the forums for data.
 

IONTheKid

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
29
Location
New Jersey
I feel like you should add some stuff about movement and mind games. I'm quickly learning that it's not only the character which needs to be optimized, but the way you see and play the game itself. You should write that people should try to be as patient as possible and not really only rely on baiting attacks but just being smart. If you know you can grab combo then do it, be conscious of who you tech chase and what matchups to actually use Sheik in primarily. She is good against a lot of characters but there's a few that really kill her that people would be better to switch off for. Sheik should never really approach unless you know you can hit a major attack, other than that I mean going for grabs or camping with needles are good options. I guess just add stuff about playing her in general and what to and what not to do. Add a general section and a section of how mindgames and catching patterns are important too. Sheik is a weapon, but she can't be optimized unless you play her correctly ya know?
 
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