Observations vs Several Characters (A King Dedede Diary)

[Quondulen]

It seems that more DDD guide threads are starting to pop up lately and I want to differentiate this tread from those. This is not meant to be a comprehensive guide to playing DDD. This is just a collection of my personal findings and opinions. Think of it as more of a diary than a guide. I hope the information here will help people out.

Bowser
Exploit chain grab and pressure Bowser when off the stage and It shouldn't be too hard to get a win. Bowser's Neutral B can rack up some damage and halt your momentum but locks him in place. If you DI correctly you can punish it even if you get caught by it.

Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scl38w9j_d8

Lucario
Lucario can be chain grabbed. He can also be campy if you let him. Lucario doesn't have the greatest recovery so off stage pressure can really pay off. This pokemon can pack a lot of offensive power so be wary of its capabilities.
Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTeW0JUNjLY

Ike
1) You can shield grab after each of Ike's jabs during his jab routine.

More chain grabbing. Nothing really special about the Ike fight except for the inhale glitch. Also, Ike can knock Dedede out sooner than Dedede can knock out Ike, so watch out for those powerful strikes.

Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETgAdNLaSxM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROIuJspnqwE

Sonic
1) DDD's down tilt cancels Sonic's side B and down B.
2) Neutral B will also punish a B abusing Sonic.

When one of my friends first used his Sonic against my DDD, he wreaked me. I didn't consider DDD slow until I faced Sonic. Once I discovered the down tilt cancel and improved my timing vs Sonic's speed, I pretty much shut him down. Down Tilt canceling Sonic's B moves really slows his momentum down to a manageable pace.

If Sonic gets DDD into the air, DDD's at a disadvantage. A good defense is to use Down Air and Up Air, initiating the moves before Sonic gets close to you. A lot of Sonic's aerials use the length of his whole body so he can have some deceptive reach. You could avoid the assault with liberal air dodging but with a little timing practice you can punish an aggressive Sonic. You also have to watch out for Sonic's Neutral Air. It penetrates shields very well.

More recently, my friend has really upped his Sonic game. Sonic's speed really makes it hard for DDD to compete, especially in the air. Sonic can string together several aerials for lots of damage and can facilitate kills with his Up B.

Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsCQ9IGMOUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCS8h4C09o4

Zero Suit Samus
1) You can shield grab Zero Suit Samus between the second and third hit of her jab routine.
2) ZSS can't be chain grabbed.

My friend who used Sonic switched to ZSS. He's good at abusing jab routines to rack up some damage. Unfortunately for him, I had experience against a good jab (my other friend main's Ike) and quickly discovered a weakness in his offense.

This person also has the habit of back rolling after I down throw him. Since DDD can't chain grab ZSS, I just toss a Waddle at him and it hits almost every time. If a Gordo comes out he either loses a stock or gets set up for another hit.

Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PSP2fhm0gw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QrloWXnKno

Pikachu
1) DDD's down tilt cancels Pika's Neutral B.
2) Waddles block Pika's Side B and Neutral B.
3) Pika can't be chain grabbed.
4) If you use your hammer to poke Pika during his Thunder attack, you will get hit by it.

Man, I hate Pikachu. Hes small, fast, and hard to hit with DDD's hit boxes. His Neutral B has a good stun and is very spammy. Down B is powerful and makes for a great edge guard. C-sticked Side and Down Smashes are quick and powerful. My third friend has mained Pikachu and he has quickly become a pain. He plays an game of attrition where he spams Neutral B and pokes at you with side smashes and aerials. Once he pushes you off the side of the stage, he throws electricity off the edge to disrupt your recovery and uses thunder to guard the top of the screen.

I use a lot of Down Tilts in this match up to counter the barrage of electricity.

Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28P8b4LeY6Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITga8iX1U5A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du9peLoY_5g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS0LhVmWZsU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gemGyzUAIyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hluLzarN-64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn17uc19Nmc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25kkOBKK5Sc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvlKTadSD1Q

Link
Nothing in this matchup really stands out except the fact that Link can be chain grabbed. Its a pretty straight forward fight except vs projectile spammers. Watch out for Links down smash, side smash, and down air.

Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JQMC9GlRSY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hmUZclcm24

Zelda/Sheik
Sheik's speed gives DDD problems. Sheik has the capability to string a good number of hits together as well as a jab routine that can really rack up the damage and is hard for DDD to escape from. She is the kind of character that wants to get in your face and explode. F-tilts, D-Tilts, and jabs work well to keep her at bay.

I haven't made any special observations about this matchup yet.

Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xUUIZi0wBc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1_U4h_0B2o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwm-WIzzjag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjuAYBLhcw4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Un2omCPzM

Ice Climbers
1) Inhale is a particularly nice weapon against ICs. Inhale one and spit it at the other.
2) Smack Nana when the opportunity presents itself. Killing her makes the fight easier.

These guys are easy to KO but are good at wracking up damage.

Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYfy3o6Ntf4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1feCOUbwJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtOY3r3OF4

Peach
No special observations about this matchup yet.

Videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AEwTGNBlTg

**I'll update this post as I discover more information about character interactions between DDD and the rest of the cast.**

 

[lain]

Quondulen, I want to congratulate you for the ONLY informative or helpful Dedede thread I've seen so far. Besides the stickied chaingrabbing one.

Sadly, everyone on the Dedede boards are stupid, so they won't contribute to this.

A few things I talked with Romeo (yes that one) and Vex Kasrani, another really knowledgeable Dedede:

- Romeo says Fair is great and has many applications. Those of which include
- Edgegaurding after dthrow near the edge (drop -> fair -> jump -> fair -> repeat)
- Drop zones
- Non-fastfalled, it auto-cancels so you can follow up immediately
- This, coupled with auto-cancelled bairs with followups, makes Dedede quite a hassle.
- Note that some enemies are too short to get hit by non-fastfalled fairs.

Dthrow
- Tech chase into you
- Dsmash is better for percentages (and at low percents it can even sometimes combo!)
- Utilt is better for kills.
- If they roll away however...
- A dash attack is sometimes viable, but you must start it before the enemy rolls and move far enough.
- This means if the enemy doesn't roll away immediately, then they will get hit by it.

 

[Jeremy092387]

Another way to gimp Sonic's down B is inhale. It's as if Sonic justs rolls right into Dedede's belly. I was fighting a Sonic down B spammer online yesterday and this gimped him pretty bad as that was one of his main strategies.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

See a smash attack coming and block it. Follow up with a grab if possible. D-tilt also works, but don't rely on smash attacks since they're rather slow.

 

[sweetooth]

very good and informational posts guys. i need to start incorporating fairs and Dsmashes more. I use fair a lot for edge guarding. but i hardly use dsmash at all.

 

[aznxk3vi17]

Got any decent strategies versus a good G&W? I get wrecked by this one G&W player. Parachute canceled aerials into smashes are really messing me up. He commonly goes from Up+B into Down Air, followed by either a Forward Smash or a Down Smash. They all seem to out prioritize my aerials. If that doesn't work, even his aerials seem to out prioritize DDD's, which is compounded with G&W's seemingly superior control in the air.

His sausages and bacon nullify Waddle Dees, so an approach is very difficult. I just don't see what I can do.

 

[Brahma]

Jumpback Fair works nicely as well. Outspaces a lot of approaches.

Inhale can be a pain for characters without a decent projectile or disjointed hitbox. Ganondorf in particular has trouble approaching, he has to go above you and try to land an aerial from the top (usually Dair), in which case you just stop inhale and Utilt.

Waddle Doo's are awesome. Most people don't bother with knocking out WDee/Doos, so if you have a Waddle Doo out, you can follow it or let it run around the stage, if it connects with the electric attack, you can usually get a free dash attack/Fair or if spaced right, even a Fsmash. I like walking and covering the WDoo with DDD's bulk, then shielding and letting the WDoo punish, similar to Snake grenade shielding, but with pain in the *** timing.

 

[Tricky.]

good theard...keep it up

 

[CO18]

I use downsmashes so much.

Nobody uses it. Use it. Especially when people just start rolling around you.

Fair edgeguaridng ***** as said.



Aznz: You can shield grab Game and Watches Dair pretty easily. I play Hylian's Game and Watch which is very good, Fair/Bair seems to work very well but its like almost a toss up with his fair.
His bair ***** your shield. I actually bring out the Jethammer sometimes against G and W when hes short hopping bairs into you. Try it it works well.

 

[aznxk3vi17]

I use downsmashes so much.

Nobody uses it. Use it. Especially when people just start rolling around you.

Fair edgeguaridng ***** as said.



Aznz: You can shield grab Game and Watches Dair pretty easily. I play Hylian's Game and Watch which is very good, Fair/Bair seems to work very well but its like almost a toss up with his fair.
His bair ***** your shield. I actually bring out the Jethammer sometimes against G and W when hes short hopping bairs into you. Try it it works well.

I love the down smash, it's fast and does good knockback.

True, his back air ***** me. I've tried to shield grab, but I either get pushed too far away, or I get hit out of it by a forward or down smash (since the down air has like, no landing lag at all). I'll see if I can grab him more often.

Problem is, he plays a very campy G&W. Approaching through sausages is difficult enough, but almost everything is shield grabbed. If I get him into the air and chase after for a back or forward air, he just seems to out-prioritize me with his own aerials. Maybe I just need to work on my timing (I picked up DDD quite recently, just last week after I "mastered" Ike).

 

[Quondulen]

Quondulen, I want to congratulate you for the ONLY informative or helpful Dedede thread I've seen so far. Besides the stickied chaingrabbing one.

Thank you for the kind words. I simply have the goal of spreading some knowledge around. I'm new to the online smash community and I have noticed a lack of informative posts discussing bare bones tactics and strategy. Weather this kind of talk is saved for the various back room forums or not is unknown to me (It would be nice if we could just read what goes on in there; I understand limiting posting to select people).

So, in order to satisfy my own intellectual hunger, I started this thread in the hopes that we could share our knowledge and help each other improve our games.

Sadly, everyone on the Dedede boards are stupid, so they won't contribute to this.

Luckily, it looks like this won't be the case. We already have some good information pouring in from several people.

- Romeo says Fair is great and has many applications. Those of which include
- Edgegaurding after dthrow near the edge (drop -> fair -> jump -> fair -> repeat)
- Drop zones
- Non-fastfalled, it auto-cancels so you can follow up immediately
- This, coupled with auto-cancelled bairs with followups, makes Dedede quite a hassle.
- Note that some enemies are too short to get hit by non-fastfalled fairs.

Forward airs require a little timing practice but is great once you have it down. I've found it works especially well when you are hovering below and to the left of your opponent when off the stage.

I call DDD's ability to attack after each jump Multi Jump Attacks. Specifically, I call several Forward Airs "The Wall of Hammers". The Wall of Hammers makes it really hard for people to recover if you knock them out there a ways. It's hard for them to go above or below you (except for other multi jumpers) so they usually have to fight you in the air. You have the advantage of being closer to the ledge. I've found that characters with tether recoveries are usually in more danger vs Wall of Hammers than others are. Watch out for ZSS's down B though, that thing has sick priority and it's a spike.

Dthrow
- Tech chase into you
- Dsmash is better for percentages (and at low percents it can even sometimes combo!)
- Utilt is better for kills.
- If they roll away however...
- A dash attack is sometimes viable, but you must start it before the enemy rolls and move far enough.
- This means if the enemy doesn't roll away immediately, then they will get hit by it.

I employ DDD's dash A the most just after I die. I use the invincibility frames of a new stock to protect me through the lag. I don't use it much so it's really a surprise when I come out of the gate and unload it on my opponent. If they have a decent percentage it's a quick kill.

 

[Quondulen]

Another way to gimp Sonic's down B is inhale. It's as if Sonic justs rolls right into Dedede's belly. I was fighting a Sonic down B spammer online yesterday and this gimped him pretty bad as that was one of his main strategies.

Good call. I forgot to mention that because I don't use it as much. I use Down Tilt more often just because it is so fast and I have time to try and set up another move after it. Neutral B definitely has it's uses. Especially if you let them break out and they pop upwards.

 

[Quondulen]

One thing I forgot to mention about Sonic is that you have to really watch out for his Neutral Air. It penetrates shields very well.

The best overall strategy is to just keep him at the end of your hammer for as long as you can.

 

[Quondulen]

very good and informational posts guys. i need to start incorporating fairs and Dsmashes more. I use fair a lot for edge guarding. but i hardly use dsmash at all.

Down Smash works wonders on rollers. One of my friends really likes to roll behind you and attack. A C-Sticked down smash is a good defense a lot of the time.

 

[choknater]

At my last tournament, I grabbed sonic out of his side-B because my timing is too good LOL!

 

[Mikey Free]

The forward aerial is awesome and all but any love for the reverse aerial?

though i do use the foward aerial as well i find that against hover like revcovers a quick reverse aerial can really mess somebody up.


another thing i dont know how conventional this is but i've caught a few of my buds off guard with it.
I go into a run and then at the end of my run sorta slide into my up smash. ha ha kinda messes with people who jump up as a natural reaction to avoid your dash.

 

[B.A.M.]

the problem i have with trying to get someone in multiple f-airs is that my opponent always jumps back and just air dodges the first f-air and lands back on the stage, now putting me in a disadvantage. also is a good ko move for d3 besides his u-tilt, or rather a reliable one. I keep trying 2 use u-tilt for killing but its seems as if its really hard to hit the opponent with it unless they are descending on you. it doesnt have that much horizontal range (and rightfully so.)

 

[Verdugo]

For people that are really agressive against dedede in the air, you could try doing a nair out of an air dodge. it can surprise the opponent most of the time. really the only problem i'm having with him is finding a use for the running attack. is it ever useful? even a little bit?

 

[Frey]

Against Snake- You can cancel his upsmash's grenade with a well timed neutral air, which can lead into a grab if done close enough.

 

[Gates]

another thing i dont know how conventional this is but i've caught a few of my buds off guard with it.
I go into a run and then at the end of my run sorta slide into my up smash. ha ha kinda messes with people who jump up as a natural reaction to avoid your dash.

Are you just talking about Hyphen Smashing or do you actually delay it for a second before Usmashing? And what are the advantages of this as opposed to normal Hyphen Smashing?

 

[Quondulen]

The forward aerial is awesome and all but any love for the reverse aerial?

though i do use the foward aerial as well i find that against hover like revcovers a quick reverse aerial can really mess somebody up.

Of course. His Back Air is great. I use it a lot.

 

[Quondulen]

the problem i have with trying to get someone in multiple f-airs is that my opponent always jumps back and just air dodges the first f-air and lands back on the stage, now putting me in a disadvantage.

Sounds like this is taking place close to the edge. If you get them way out there they aren't going to be able to just air dodge through you and land safely. When people are at a higher percent they fly out a lot farther and have to do more to recover. People make a lot more mistakes once they leave the stage because its a high stress situation.

If they do manage to get past you, immediately Up B back onto the stage and try to cut them off. You might catch them in some lag.

also is a good ko move for d3 besides his u-tilt, or rather a reliable one. I keep trying 2 use u-tilt for killing but its seems as if its really hard to hit the opponent with it unless they are descending on you. it doesnt have that much horizontal range (and rightfully so.)

DDD has a lot of good KO moves. C-Sticked down and up smashes are great. And if you are good at mind games, a quick side smash will knock people out as low as 30-50%.

 

[Quondulen]

really the only problem i'm having with him is finding a use for the running attack. is it ever useful? even a little bit?

I use it when I have invincibility frames from a fresh stock and when people are going to suffer obvious landing lag, like when they hit the ground after an UP B. It's a great KO move.

 

[CO18]

Use his Dash attack for Tech chasing. It pwns.

Also, slow down with the triple posts Quondulen.

Theres an edit button. Against da rulez.

 

[Quondulen]

Use his Dash attack for Tech chasing. It pwns.

Also, slow down with the triple posts Quondulen.

Theres an edit button. Against da rulez.

How is replying to separate posts spamming?

 

[lain]

Interesting tidbits:

Utilt comes out extremely quick from a roll. It's faster then moving normally to your opponent and utilting.

Zelda's ANNOYING AS **** Din's fire move is cancelled out by Utilt. If at any point it hits you during your utilt, they clang and your utilt stops and you suffer no lag.

Camping on edges or in general just leaving a Snake alone for a while gives them time to plant a mine. This is good, because if you can get a grab in the right direction, then you can chain into their mine. Once they hit the mine, you can either grab them again immediately (rack up more damage) or just let them fly if they were at a killing percent.

Diddy Kong's bananas aren't... good... at all... at stopping a chaingrab. Just once you get to the banana, pick it up, throw it at them, it trips them, resume chaingrab. Or dash attack if it catches them off gaurd.

I noticed that a lot of people always try and dodge out of a chaingrab. Well, after you'd done it enough to where they think you'll grab again, and if they're at a good killing percent, do dash attack instead. The hitbox stays out long enough against anyone's dodge. Just a good mixup.

More later.

 

[Kresent]

While this has been stated before, his Fair is actually good.

Thanks to it's odd hitbox, if you're hanging on a ledge and an opponent is actually close enough for you to hit them, you can drop, Fair, and if you hit them with the hammer when it is about to finish the attack, they will fly behind you, off of the stage. I find it useful for surprising opponents and keeping them away from me when I try to recover.

 

[Gates]

How is replying to separate posts spamming?

It's not spamming per se, it's just bad form. Just because you're replying to several different people doesn't mean that you need to post multiple times. If you go to the advanced post option it lists the last 20 or so posts for reference. Also, you can type [,QUOTE,] and [,/QUOTE,] without the commas to quote people. To specify who you are quoting, you could also do

.

Now to demonstrate this:

Zelda's ANNOYING AS **** Din's fire move is cancelled out by Utilt. If at any point it hits you during your utilt, they clang and your utilt stops and you suffer no lag.

Really? I'm a Zelda main (a Dedede secondary) and I have never seen this before. It seems like your timing would have to be extremely careful though and Din's Fire has such an explosive radius that the Zelda player can easily delay it until after you perform utilt or explode it before you expect it. I've faced spot dodgers a lot with Zelda and so I've gotten fairly good at mixing up my Din's Fire times to mess with people's heads. However, I would also think that since Dedede is such a large target that you should be more worried about her knee lightning kicks anyway.

 

[choknater]

Zelda's ANNOYING AS **** Din's fire move is cancelled out by Utilt. If at any point it hits you during your utilt, they clang and your utilt stops and you suffer no lag.

Superb advice.

 

[Quondulen]

Does it really offend peoples eyes so much when there are three posts in a row by the same person? All of it on topic and to the point and in no way spammy?

I think you guys are being too picky.

 

[Lib3r4t3]

Any tips for Lucario?

 

[yossarian22]

Any tips for Lucario?

ftilt advance if the guy spams his aura.
Chaingrab, but mix it up with dash attacks. Maybe its just me, but I can't chaingrab Lucario consistently so I put in random dash attacks. I normally downthrow off the edge then follow up with repeated back airs. But my friend is not extremely good with Lucario, so I am not sure how well this will work on somebody who mains him.

 

[really_calm]

are we speaking in code now?

what the heck is sonic boom and yokui? is mewtwo2 lucario?

I'm sorry if I'm ruining the whole code thing you guys got going on

 

[yossarian22]

are we speaking in code now?

what the heck is sonic boom and yokui? is mewtwo2 lucario?

I'm sorry if I'm ruining the whole code thing you guys got going on

Its the site's April fool bit.
They replaced a bunch of words in their filter, so you get weird results
The word
'strike' for instance

 

[really_calm]

OHHHHH

yeah

I was so confused! o.O

Thx for filling me in ^^

 

[CO18]

Does it really offend peoples eyes so much when there are three posts in a row by the same person? All of it on topic and to the point and in no way spammy?

I think you guys are being too picky.

Im not being too picky. Its simply against the rules. lol.


Theres an edit button. If you need to respond to something you can quote muttiple posts in one post.

 

[Tricky.]

yo does anyone have tips on falco

 

[J4pu]

after readin your post i can only say im very glad i dont plan on maining sonic, seeing his pseudonym gives me a headache

 

[strike42]

i'm confused. Dwight Eisenhower,Yokoi with boobs, dhaloes? what are u guys talking about. and why are people pronouncing King Dedede as daydayday.( why does his name change to daydayday when i type in Dedede?)

 

[Smashruler]

i really don't think now is the best time to comment since i have no idea who's being described thanks to this April fools thing.