Miharu
Smash Hero
Coulda sworn that Sheridan mained Falco.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Norcal/Bay Area/DBR:NorCal Nevers: Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
- Thread starter HyugaRicdeau
- Start date
pockyD
Smash Legend
I was searching for starcraft maps last night and I came across this on a forum
Miharu
Smash Hero
LOL WTF
Was that from NCT2?
Was that from NCT2?
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
yeah, it was
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
Hahaha nice find Pocky, I remember that. Foxroar is sitting to the left of me in the picture but he got cut out haha.
Green Greens is an atrocity. Clearly you've never had a Fox just stand on the side platform and press B. It goes all the way across, just over the middle platform. It's hard as heck to approach anyone on the sides. There is recovery imbalance for people who can't break blocks, imbalance for fast characters when the apples pop out (though honestly I don't think the apples are a big deal at all) and the ceiling is ridiculously low. All these things by themselves fall just short of a ban, IMO, BUT the ****ing falling blocks and exploding stuff is just too much. You can randomly go up/down a stock just because you got hit by a falling exploding block, or you hit a falling normal block on the way up and it saves you. You have no advance warning of the blocks unlike say the cars on Mute, and they divide the stage roughly in thirds, so unless you fight exclusively on one of the platforms, you have to deal with the falling block area all the time. Oh yeah, and wall infinites for people that complain about those.
Here's a video of my amazing Luigi on Green Greens. Check out the combo at 0:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzFn9sd00qc
I also found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eykf6VpWjOA&feature=related
As for SMI, you can't 'camp' here any more than you can on another flat stage. I mean, yes you can camp, but you're completely approachable if you have any semblance of spacing, unlike Japes. They can run, sure, but who is it that we're worried about camping? DDD? If you can't catch DDD something's wrong with you. And also...this and Bridge (which has less opportunity for running away) are counterpicks. If they get picked you have a clear opportunity to pick a character that doesn't get grab infinited, which there are many; just like picking someone that doesn't get waveshined by Fox, or, not picking IC on Poke Floats, etc. I do not claim that SMI is balanced, but that's the point of a counterpick. If it's so broken show it to me in tournament, cause I haven't heard of anyone going through a tourney winning all their **** just by spamming SMI and DDD. I'm willing to let the metagame have time to respond.
Skyworld. So yeah there are a lot of tricks to this stage, but I don't see why we have to necessarily think of those as BAD things. I mean Mute City doesn't even have edges FFS and it's been on in almost every tourney ever. You just have to learn to play differently. IF somehow there is one dominant strategy on Skyworld that's anathema to gameplay, then we ban it. I just think it's a stage people are going to get used to over time. That's not to say I like it....I don't really.
Green Greens is an atrocity. Clearly you've never had a Fox just stand on the side platform and press B. It goes all the way across, just over the middle platform. It's hard as heck to approach anyone on the sides. There is recovery imbalance for people who can't break blocks, imbalance for fast characters when the apples pop out (though honestly I don't think the apples are a big deal at all) and the ceiling is ridiculously low. All these things by themselves fall just short of a ban, IMO, BUT the ****ing falling blocks and exploding stuff is just too much. You can randomly go up/down a stock just because you got hit by a falling exploding block, or you hit a falling normal block on the way up and it saves you. You have no advance warning of the blocks unlike say the cars on Mute, and they divide the stage roughly in thirds, so unless you fight exclusively on one of the platforms, you have to deal with the falling block area all the time. Oh yeah, and wall infinites for people that complain about those.
Here's a video of my amazing Luigi on Green Greens. Check out the combo at 0:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzFn9sd00qc
I also found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eykf6VpWjOA&feature=related
As for SMI, you can't 'camp' here any more than you can on another flat stage. I mean, yes you can camp, but you're completely approachable if you have any semblance of spacing, unlike Japes. They can run, sure, but who is it that we're worried about camping? DDD? If you can't catch DDD something's wrong with you. And also...this and Bridge (which has less opportunity for running away) are counterpicks. If they get picked you have a clear opportunity to pick a character that doesn't get grab infinited, which there are many; just like picking someone that doesn't get waveshined by Fox, or, not picking IC on Poke Floats, etc. I do not claim that SMI is balanced, but that's the point of a counterpick. If it's so broken show it to me in tournament, cause I haven't heard of anyone going through a tourney winning all their **** just by spamming SMI and DDD. I'm willing to let the metagame have time to respond.
Skyworld. So yeah there are a lot of tricks to this stage, but I don't see why we have to necessarily think of those as BAD things. I mean Mute City doesn't even have edges FFS and it's been on in almost every tourney ever. You just have to learn to play differently. IF somehow there is one dominant strategy on Skyworld that's anathema to gameplay, then we ban it. I just think it's a stage people are going to get used to over time. That's not to say I like it....I don't really.
Miharu
Smash Hero
zzzzzzzzzz
malva00
Smash Master
the smash bros tourny looks way more appealing in that comparison
pockyD
Smash Legend
you're absolutely right sheridan, ban mute city
VANS
Smash Ace
=[ fine sheridan be that way
Miharu
Smash Hero
So we're banning Green Greens on the premise that Fox is a ***got on said stage (along w/ the exploding apples/blocks and so forth)?
Playing against any floaty on Mute City/Brinstar is hell.
Playing against any floaty on Mute City/Brinstar is hell.
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
couldn't you just pick fox on green greens and avoid getting camped? it's the same thing as picking a character that couldn't get cg'd
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
I definitely mentioned more things than that, but the blocks are the biggest part of why. Also I think the only character that REALLY benefits from Mute City is Jigglypuff. Brinstar saves space animals and others from edgeguards all the time. I never got why people think it's so great for floaties. I only CP it in teams.
They are different points on the same spectrum. On Green Greens, to negate that tactic, you have to pick Fox, Falco, or Ness (or Lucas I guess now). That's 3 (4). I think more than half the cast doesn't get DDD CG'd. However I said that the Fox tactic by itself does not warrant a ban, it's the combination of all those things. If one or two of them were absent, Green Greens would be OK, IMO.
Zoap
Smash Master
so i can still still pick greens greens right? I mean my fox isnt that good
TheZhuKeeper
Smash Champion
As much as I love FoD, I also think Yoshi's Story should be a neutral as opposed to FoD.
I also agree with Green Greens being banned for all the reasons you listed.
But I do think that the list of counterpick stages is too long. We are allowed one ban, and that one ban has almost no effect against floaties such as jiggs / peach / samus. There are basically four choices, dreamland / mute city / brinstar / DK 64 for them to pick from. Striking one of these four leaves a floaty with three ridiculous counterpicks left... (minus samus who has trouble grappling). Would you consider taking off one or two of the last three (since Dreamland is obviously a neutral)?
EDIT: Does anyone want to do money matches? Anything from $1 - $5.
Zoap you still wanna do the mm's we were gonna do at Davis? xD
Miharu
Smash Hero
Or give us Japes/GG/Corneria back.
pockyD
Smash Legend
you have stadium and story, what else do you need
i say just make YS and KJ64 extra NEUTRALS (get *****) just to quell the whining, and since both will inevitably be banned in the odd-stage-out anyway, the matches won't actually be affected
edit: just a random question, with traditional stage bans (ban at the start of the set), are you allowed to counterpick on the stage you banned?
i say just make YS and KJ64 extra NEUTRALS (get *****) just to quell the whining, and since both will inevitably be banned in the odd-stage-out anyway, the matches won't actually be affected
edit: just a random question, with traditional stage bans (ban at the start of the set), are you allowed to counterpick on the stage you banned?
Zoap
Smash Master
instead of canceling out yoshi's as a netral we could pehaps throw in DK 64 or Rainbow Cruise to have 7. This also balances the neutral stages out for floaties instead of having Poke, FD and BF against them.
whiteboyninja
Smash Ace
edit: i had stuff to say but i decided i'll stay neutral.
see? im learning.
see? im learning.
Zoap
Smash Master
No johns 
Yea zhu lets do it. Id also like to play falco vs falco but prob not for a dollar
Yea zhu lets do it. Id also like to play falco vs falco but prob not for a dollar
The GERM
Smash Ace
prepare to meet your makers WH0RES!!!
PS: Make way for the _____?
PS: Make way for the _____?
I'm confused as heck. Why are people debating Melee rules? I thought we settled those 3 years ago.
sidefx
Smash Champion
they already know german lol
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
You really think Yoshi's Story is more Balanced than FoD? You're in the minority then.
OK, this brings up an interesting point about why we ban stages. When we go through the stage list, we just look at each stage one by one and determine if it is too imbalanced/campy/game-breaking on its own merits. We typically don't worry too much about their balance in the context of the whole stage list. What you're asking me to do is just that. Which is perfectly fine, there's no reason why we CAN'T, but the question is do we as TO's want to take the balance of the metagame into our own hands like that. For example if somehow Pichu had a stage that was ridiculously in favor of him and noone else, should we allow that stage just to balance Pichu even though the stage is broken in and of itself?
I personally would be willing to experiment with it. But you realize, Mr. Zhu, that if we accept those premises, then it doesn't make sense to have spacies have as many advantageous stages as floaties, since they are in general significantly higher on the tier list. That is to say, "balance" does not mean bringing things into line with the tier list, it means universal balance. So a stage set that allegedly favors floaties is more balanced. I also really don't see why Brinstar is so great for floaties and not spacies. Oh and don't tell anyone, but DK64 has some insane camping strats, and DL64, sure you might upsmash kill Jiggly like 10% later, but you can run away so much easier. I've never really been sold on it being a counter against spacies. They live a ****ing long time there too you know. CF can survive Peach fthrow at 204% if you're at the right part of the stage.
Point being, either way, I consider this an appropriate stage list.
Haha fu
I have asked this question of a couple TO's, because I wanted to counterpick Zelda on Yoshi's Story, which I had banned. All so far have said no. I would tend to agree with them.
See my reply to Pocky.
Oh yeah everybody, I'd like to get some data back from this tourney about stages, so if possible when you report matches, let me know what the first stage ended up being.
Please be nice to me tomorrow this is my first Brawl Tourney =D .
Oh and another reason I don't enter Melee tournies anymore, lol look at just how little fun everyone is having just Talking about Melee. Brawl's way more fun to talk about, hence more fun tournies. Melee = not fun to talk about so the tourney will probably be even less fun. And by my unsupported and bias opinion, that makes it so.
King Out
Oh and another reason I don't enter Melee tournies anymore, lol look at just how little fun everyone is having just Talking about Melee. Brawl's way more fun to talk about, hence more fun tournies. Melee = not fun to talk about so the tourney will probably be even less fun. And by my unsupported and bias opinion, that makes it so.
King Out
TheZhuKeeper
Smash Champion
Miharu
Smash Hero
I don't have fun when talking about Brawl :[
darkatma
Smash Hero
I take one look at the brawl forums and then I never want to touch brawl again.
FALCOMIST
Smash Ace
So lets talk about brawl:
Interviewer: so Falcomist where do u see Brawl heading to?
Falcomist: LOTS AND LOT AND LOTS OF GAY AND CHAIN GRAB AND INFINITE AHD VB SEIBVNSIEPNGVIPANFPQIERWNGFAPIGVPEWIGNIPNVPIN.
Interviewer: Why do u feel that way?
Falcomist: cause thats the way its heading to... NOT to mention Snake, marth, MK are godly xD. There is potential in this game... just... WHY DOES FALCON HAVE TO HORRIBLY SUCKKKKKK...
No hate towards brawl xD cant wait to enter my first brawl tourney and lose horribly XD.
Also I DONT see any reason to just leave the 6 neutral MELEE stages... WHY do u need 5... its not SO DIFFICULT to leave YS as well Sheridan... GOD just leave melee THE WAY IT WAS and change up brawl and crap. Also try to avoid wall stages and BIG stages in brawl which people can camp.
ALSO i agree with Lucky about DDD's Dthrow chain grab issue on the stages on counterpick ^^.
Interviewer: so Falcomist where do u see Brawl heading to?
Falcomist: LOTS AND LOT AND LOTS OF GAY AND CHAIN GRAB AND INFINITE AHD VB SEIBVNSIEPNGVIPANFPQIERWNGFAPIGVPEWIGNIPNVPIN.
Interviewer: Why do u feel that way?
Falcomist: cause thats the way its heading to... NOT to mention Snake, marth, MK are godly xD. There is potential in this game... just... WHY DOES FALCON HAVE TO HORRIBLY SUCKKKKKK...
No hate towards brawl xD cant wait to enter my first brawl tourney and lose horribly XD.
Also I DONT see any reason to just leave the 6 neutral MELEE stages... WHY do u need 5... its not SO DIFFICULT to leave YS as well Sheridan... GOD just leave melee THE WAY IT WAS and change up brawl and crap. Also try to avoid wall stages and BIG stages in brawl which people can camp.
ALSO i agree with Lucky about DDD's Dthrow chain grab issue on the stages on counterpick ^^.
darkatma
Smash Hero
can anyone give me a ride to sjsu?
I'm along the way from fremont's bart station to SJSU I believe, since you haveta pass by the nearest 680, which means someone can pick me up at McDonalds
I'm along the way from fremont's bart station to SJSU I believe, since you haveta pass by the nearest 680, which means someone can pick me up at McDonalds
pockyD
Smash Legend
you need an odd # of stages to do the odd-stage-in
FALCOMIST
Smash Ace
Sheridan should just leave that to only Brawl... Leave Melee the way it always should be ^^.
Naota21t
Smash Champion
Yea, the whole odd-stage-in rule is kinda a bit random and unnecessary for melee, since its iunno... kinda had a concrete stage selection (when it comes to neutrals) for a good bit.
BTW!!! Falcon does not suck. Seriously. He's just holding back. Theres a button sequence that you hafto press that unlock's CF's potential; it like doubles his knee size and makes him capable of aggressive shuffling to grab rapeage.
Really!! I hope...
BTW!!! Falcon does not suck. Seriously. He's just holding back. Theres a button sequence that you hafto press that unlock's CF's potential; it like doubles his knee size and makes him capable of aggressive shuffling to grab rapeage.
Really!! I hope...
LuCKy
Smash Master
lol cool i was mentioned in falcomist's interview
Hostility
Smash Ace
this is lucien on hostility's account. I want to know if anyone going plays third strike. I am looking for people to play in the arcade.
FALCOMIST
Smash Ace
Did u get better? xD If u did then maybe xD.
maybe ill go Ken or Chun Li this time xD...
Naota21t
Smash Champion
wait... sjsu has 3rd strike?!?
do they also have SF2 TE or Power Stone 2? Because if they have any of those two... I'll weep from the sheer amount of joy.
also, DDR anyone? I'll make sure to bring good shoes... converse = no good for DDR. seriouly. shin-splints and blisters ftl.
do they also have SF2 TE or Power Stone 2? Because if they have any of those two... I'll weep from the sheer amount of joy.
also, DDR anyone? I'll make sure to bring good shoes... converse = no good for DDR. seriouly. shin-splints and blisters ftl.
pockyD
Smash Legend
i like the odd-stage-in aka the STRIKEOUT
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
Odd stage in is too good. People complain about randomness but then to start the set they hit a big button that says RANDOM. IT MAKES SENSE. It's really not hard guys. Doesn't it suck when you ban Mute City and then DL64 comes up randomly? Or, when you ban Corneria and then Yoshi Story comes up randomly? It's like here start out on your counterpick the first stage. That's just ****ing stupid IMO. You can have neutral resets sure, but that's even more convoluted and interrupts the match more.
RULE CHANGES:
-Corneria and Princess Peach's Castle are now allowed counterpicks in Melee singles. But not Brawl.
-Hanenbow is now banned in Brawl.
RULE CHANGES:
-Corneria and Princess Peach's Castle are now allowed counterpicks in Melee singles. But not Brawl.
-Hanenbow is now banned in Brawl.
Serendipity
Smash Journeyman
im trying to promise to be there at 10... doors open then and watnot.
I"ll be there to set up but i dont think imma enter any events.
Bring ur cubes/wiis
hope to cyall there
I"ll be there to set up but i dont think imma enter any events.
Bring ur cubes/wiis
hope to cyall there
lordXblade
Smash Apprentice
I'm always up for Third Strike. I've been working on my Ken game a lot recently. Let me know when you guys are gonna play, I want in.