No Meteor cancel after 50% or 75%

[ForgottenLabRat]

I don't know many combos I have done has Lucario that could have ended up in a sweet sweet Side b spike just to be meteor canceled and me get edge hogged. I know that getting rid of MCs all together would unbalance the game, so I came up with a solution I believe would work. What if you could only MC at 50% or lower, anything after that the move would act as a legit spike. Tell me if you think this would be unbalanced or if you support it, I have no idea how hard it would be to implement this as I don't know what it takes to code PM (yet). The 50% of course could be changed to 75% or any other number, but I think this could bring some more hype to PM and have those amazing combos really KO instead of being shut down just because your opponent has a little bit of reflexes.

Ex: https://youtu.be/i4nyocX_bWQ?t=3m34s
This should not happen in my opinion

 

[Star ☆]

I don't know many combos I have done has Lucario that could have ended up in a sweet sweet Side b spike just to be meteor canceled and me get edge hogged. I know that getting rid of MCs all together would unbalance the game, so I came up with a solution I believe would work. What if you could only MC at 50% or lower, anything after that the move would act as a legit spike. Tell me if you think this would be unbalanced or if you support it, I have no idea how hard it would be to implement this as I don't know what it takes to code PM (yet). The 50% of course could be changed to 75% or any other number, but I think this could bring some more hype to PM and have those amazing combos really KO instead of being shut down just because your opponent has a little bit of reflexes.

Ex: https://youtu.be/i4nyocX_bWQ?t=3m34s
This should not happen in my opinion

Meteors can be canceled after 16 frames so the percentage in which a meteor can be canceled is dependant on how powerful the meteor's knockback is, your character's weight and other factors. Also, I'm not sure if you know but if you hold A whilst doing a Side special you can expend an aura charge and the throw will become a spike.

Changing all meteors to spikes after 50% would hilariously unbalance the game as almost all characters would be able to land easy kills after only one or two exchanges in the neutral. Lucario, especially, doesn't need this as he already has a spike in his aura charged version of Side-B.

 

[Kati]

Lucario's silly enough.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

I do know that they nerfed his side B in 3.5 making his non charged version no longer a spike, which I think is total BS. That move is very hard to get off and should kill whether or not it has an aura. Yes it was supposed to be a meteor in 3.0, but lets face it Lucario wasn't great in 3.0 either. This is just a concept of having Meteors not be MC after some percent. The 16 frames is basically nothing seeing as it is a hair more than a 4th of a second. 50% is a little low, but something like 100% in no way would unbalance the game in any big way. I know that Lucas/Fox/ any character with a shred of recovery can suvive a ganon dair at 10% with relative ease, I don't think that those characters should be allowed to survive getting hit with a move like that.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Melee used to have Meteors cancellable at 8 frames. now it's 16 frames.
i.e. Project M already buffed meteors.

it's nothing to do with 'being allowed to survive lol

If your opponents are saving themselves with meteor cancels often, it might be time to employ a different kill tactic.

 

[xXSciophobiaXx]

I just started playing lucario about 3 weeks ago, and while fairly experienced in smash, by no means an expert, and I think lucario's side B is much easier than I anticipated to land. Meteor Cancelling rewards cognitive players who are aware of whats going on. I would treat the situation as such:

Landing a meteor move at above the absolute kill percentage is NOT going to kill a good opponent, in fact, if they are ready, I will be put in a poor position.

Thus, if you're not sure you can kill outright, you need to use a different aerial to poke your opponent into a bad position, and set up for an edgeguard opportunity.

This mentality applies directly to opponents who like to meteor/spike unsweetspotted recoveries at high percents. I have become quite proficient at DI-ing into a walltech and punishing these types of edgeguards. Simply put, if a good enough opponent is near a wall, don't hit them down, try to poke your opponent away and again setup for an edgeguard.

In regards to your suggestion, what character at 100% can survive any sort of strong meteor? There might be a percent somewhere that you could argue for, but I think where the game is currently rewards skill to a greater extent than what you're suggesting.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

I played Lucario in 3.0, and yeah the side B spike works for the first 2 or 3 games on someone, but they even have slightly decent DI it will almost never connect, and there are often much better alternatives. I was also playing Lucas against a ganon and survived a dair at round 100.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Melee used to have Meteors cancellable at 8 frames. now it's 16 frames.
i.e. Project M already buffed meteors.

it's nothing to do with 'being allowed to survive lol

If your opponents are saving themselves with meteor cancels often, it might be time to employ a different kill tactic.

This is more of against me. I still have a lot to learn in this game and I can sometimes be a little sloppy on the recovery and get hit by a dair from ganon, but because I have more than crappy reflexes, I really don't die. I'm sure they could have killed me with a different move, but I mess up bad enough to get hit by a ganon dair. I should have lost a stoke, not just take a 20% slap on the wrist.

 

[Xermo]

lol the falcon killed himself in the video by not full hoping after his dair. what are you even arguing for.

 

[G13_Flux]

I do know that they nerfed his side B in 3.5 making his non charged version no longer a spike, which I think is total BS. That move is very hard to get off and should kill whether or not it has an aura. Yes it was supposed to be a meteor in 3.0, but lets face it Lucario wasn't great in 3.0 either. This is just a concept of having Meteors not be MC after some percent. The 16 frames is basically nothing seeing as it is a hair more than a 4th of a second. 50% is a little low, but something like 100% in no way would unbalance the game in any big way. I know that Lucas/Fox/ any character with a shred of recovery can suvive a ganon dair at 10% with relative ease, I don't think that those characters should be allowed to survive getting hit with a move like that.

this is not true. lucarios side b without a charge was never a spike. it had angles that werent the usual, straight down, 270 degrees, but it was never a spike, and could be cancelled.

also, meteor smashes are supposed to reward the user for edge guarding skillfully. in other words, if you play it really safe, and try to meteor smash someone above the ledge, you shouldnt get as much reward, since you didnt take any risk. if you meteor someone at ledge height, however, they are almost certainly not going to be able to survive it, even at 50%, unless theyre DDD, m2, or Rob or someone else heavier with a great recovery. higher risk, more reward. low risk, less reward.

one more thing. meteor smashing someone even from above the ledge still puts them in an absolutely terrible position, and allows you to punish them pretty easily most of the time. 90% of the time, they wont sweetspot the edge, and you should be able to take advantage of that by thinking a step or two ahead.

 

[Strong Badam]

Lucario's SideB (uncharged) was a spike in 3.0, although that was not by intention. It is now a meteor in 3.5 as intended.