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NintenZone Social Thread: Shovel Knight Amiibo Hype Catastrophe (feat. Swamp)

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Was Shulk the last newcomer reveal before 3ds realease?

Because I JUST remembered it was from a japan only direct. . . that's really weird the last big announcement would be japan only. I get they got the game earlier but that just seems silly :/
GOD YES. agnes is my most wanted 3rd party. Unfortunately just like all of my other most wanted she pretty much has a 0% chance. . .
No. I dont want to mute the game
no Rayman would be a much better limbless guy. rayman would make a better kawashima too. . .
yes. he doesn't chuckle

EDIT scott why are you so big. stop
fixed the little canadian
 
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Omega Tyrant

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4 times No.
And 92% No for Baby Mario after I voted. :laugh:
After all the complaints about the babies in Mario Kart and the general complaints about the amount of Mario characters in Smash, I think the very last character anyone wants to see in Smash is a babified Mario character.
 

Chrono.

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After all the complaints about the babies in Mario Kart and the general complaints about the amount of Mario characters in Smash, I think the very last character anyone wants to see in Smash is a babified Mario character.
A very evil part of me wants it to happen, just to see the rage.
 

domokl

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Tabletop sim could be good for game nights, though im not sure if any of you have it.
 

AreJay25

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Was Shulk the last newcomer reveal before 3ds realease?

Because I JUST remembered it was from a japan only direct. . . that's really weird the last big announcement would be japan only. I get they got the game earlier but that just seems silly :/
Yes he was.

Honestly, the fact that the whole direct was Japan exclusive was kinda silly...
 
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Das Koopa

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There's a lot more that goes into the game than damage building. Spacing/zoning opponents out to get safe damage and setup opportunities to build damage at all, avoiding damage so you keep the lead and don't get killed, finishing off stocks. etc. If pure damage building was what mattered most, Brawl Sonic would have been one of the best characters instead of a mediocre one, and Brawl Snake wouldn't have been that good.

For your example, if you made Needles, Vanish, and Bouncing Fish bad, Sheik would absolutely not be top tier anymore. Those are by far the most important moves in her moveset, and are the biggest contributors to why she has been such an OP character. Needles let her zone out everyone despite being a rushdown character and are used for important kill setups/gimps, Vanish gives her an absolutely free recovery and a really effective KO move to finish off stocks early, and Bouncing Fish recovers, finishes combos, kills, and gets Sheik out of bad situations for free.
And... what happens when you take away the quality of her standard attacks? She drops several tiers and is probably even worse off than she would've been, because a bigger bulk of her attacks (such as her Fair) are suddenly much worse. Bad specials can cripple characters, but bad standards are also likely to do the same if not worse.

Yes, nerfing Luigi, Rosalina, etc. out of their good specials would drop them in tiers. I'm not denying this, but it'd be even worse if they lost their quality standard attacks. Luigi's more likely to maintain a mediocre C tier status without good specials than he is without good standards.

I'm not saying damage building is THE most important, but it's up there, and characters would be nothing if they had an assortment of 11 or so moves that suck. That's my point. Standards are more valuable to an arsenal for a character's mainstay in the meta, barring exception cases. (Duck Hunt, Link, Young Link, Mega Man, Robin, etc.)

But at the end of the day, both are integral to making a character work. However, standard attacks are, as far as I can say, far less likely to jump a character multiple tiers than several buffs to standard attacks. Wii Fit Trainer didn't make 2 spots in Top 32 at EVO on Jumbo Hoop alone. It helped, but there was already something to her character people missed hidden away in her wonky hitboxes.

That bad recovery is Falcon's biggest flaw and is the main thing holding him back, especially in Smash 4 where bad recoveries aren't the norm. And Falcon being "combo food" comes from, besides falling speed, him lacking specials that gives him protection when sent into the air. Time to bring up Smash 4 Sheik, she's a fast faller like Falcon who lacks aerials with disjointed hitboxes, but why doesn't she get hit anywhere near as hard when sent into the air? Because of Vanish and Bouncing Fish getting her out of such situations. If you made Falcon Dive a good recovery move somehow, and turn aerial Falcon kick into a move that could more reliably get Falcon back to neutral from the air, Smash 4 Falcon would definitely become a top tier.
For Melee Falcon, I already explained: If Falcon's in a recovery position, he still has the disadvantage of having to secure a position in which he can build momentum. He relies on momentum, or he's dead no matter how good his recovery is. No characteristic specials in Melee's context could possibly be better than the speed and versatility of his SHFF aerials. His weakness is in his playstyle, and the capability of the player piloting him. He's a very technically demanding character.

That linearity is a result of specials that give them little additional effective options and that fail to cover the holes in their offenses and defenses.
I mean, there's nothing really there for them. Ice Climbers really rely on wobbling, and I don't think better specials could give substance to their standards. They're low-tier material in P:M without wobbling and chaingrabs, as an example.


Yeah no, this kind of attitude is what leads to inadequate information being given and people saying what amounts to bull**** (e.g. Mii Swordfighter is totally bottom 5 still!)
But... it's pretty much true. If you're light and floaty, you're in the air longer. If you got knocked around, you're still in the air for a longer amount of time. Almost every floaty character in the game has compensating aerials, including Samus. Zelda's aerials are all, sans her Nair, pseudo-knees with a lot of lag and little reward.

Villager is another good example. He's floatier than Zelda is, but he has good aerials that cover his movements. Only a character with movement like Sonic can feasibly pull off stall with hit-and-run tactics based purely on his absurd mobility. Other characters need aerials to cover their lengthy aerial times.


If Din's Fire was a good projectile that could be used to effectively zone with, it would mean opponents would have to approach Zelda. Which means Zelda could actually utilise her moveset defensively like it's tailored to. It would mean her poor mobility is a minor annoyance instead of being crippling (poor mobility hurts you a lot more when you actually need to approach and chase people; see Brawl Olimar for why poor mobility doesn't matter when you can camp everyone out and hit hard when they get in). Suddenly Lightning Kick won't be so bad, when you can afford to throw them out, and hard hitting moves that don't really combo would become a lot more meaningful when your opponent is soaking up more passive damage and being more pressured.
Her defensively tailored moveset is garbage. See: Every other stall-based character in the game. Her endlag on Lightning Kick would not suddenly make her able to toss them out like Jigglypuff Bairs, because that lag gives an opponent the opportunity to move in. Din's Fire would need to be absurdly broken in order to make her all-kill-move-aerials (sans Nair) viable, and at that point, Din's would be doing most of the work and would be an exceptional case ala Diddy Bananas in Brawl.
 

Chrono.

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They knew that between the Episode VII hype and their tendency to spend more on marketing than on making games, they could shell out the most barebones Star Wars game and people would still buy it.
 

Frisk.

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I honestly don't want any character just for the salt. That may just be me.



One of my favorite modes from Battlefront II was "Rise of the Empire." I'm disappointed in you, EA/Dice.
All I care about for new characters is that they hopefully have a fun and interesting moveset that brings something new to the table.
 
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Champ Gold

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You linked the wrong image. Here you go


I wouldnt play it. Thats because i wouldnt own the game TO play it though.

EA continuing to dissapoint
We don't some kid in there we need a real woman in Smash

They knew that between the Episode VII hype and their tendency to spend more on marketing than on making games, they could shell out the most barebones Star Wars game and people would still buy it.
Star Wars fans will shell out for anything most days. I miss Factor 5, while I never like Star Wars they knew how to make some games
 

Starlight_Lily

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After all the complaints about the babies in Mario Kart and the general complaints about the amount of Mario characters in Smash, I think the very last character anyone wants to see in Smash is a babified Mario character.
I want Baby Mario and Baby Luigi as a duo in Smash, with a moveset based of off Partners in Time
 

Das Koopa

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I honestly don't want any character just for the salt. That may just be me.



One of my favorite modes from Battlefront II was "Rise of the Empire." I'm disappointed in you, EA/Dice.
Hey, hey. Don't worry. They'll include a campaign and vast assortment of content.

With a season pass DLC for 30$ on top of your 60$ hollow shell of a game.

EA

IT'S IN THE MONEY
 
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Starlight_Lily

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Champ Gold

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Yeah this is the same company who said Steve Jobs had a bigger impact on the gaming industry then Miyamoto. Just to make it clear EA don't know **** about the gaming industry in the U.S.A they shouldn't be trying to say things about other country's gaming industry when they haven't been paying attention to their's all that much.
This is the same company that screwed over Sega long in the Genesis days and all the way until the Dreamcast. When Sega's 2K sports games destroyed EA's crap

(Remember how most EA game cartridges look different than normal Genesis cartridges)
 
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EA is the same company that ported Mass Effect 3 to Wii U, but released the Mass Effect Trilogy set for the other platforms around the same time frame.

I'm still baffled by that move to this day.
 

Radical Bones

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If there was a character Baby Mario and Yoshi that was separate to Yoshi I'd be so happy. Even if it was a semi-clone. There's definitely enough to work with.
 

Huarbolo

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I will from now on be doing journal entries on my quest to unlock all customs (I'm already 70 percent done so if this becomes popular enough I'll continue it with other things!)

(Inspired by @Zoroarking's original idea "PokéBoards")
 
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Omega Tyrant

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And... what happens when you take away the quality of her standard attacks? She drops several tiers and is probably even worse off than she would've been, because a bigger bulk of her attacks (such as her Fair) are suddenly much worse. Bad specials can cripple characters, but bad standards are also likely to do the same if not worse.
Sheik has pretty much only had her standards nerfed so far; Needles only got a slight endlag increase in the first patch that didn't do much to make them less OP, and Bouncing Fish only got a slight knockback nerf. Sheik is still the best character in the game. If those nerfs to the standards were undone and instead put to focus on Needles, Vanish, and Bouncing Fish, Sheik would be a much weaker character than she is now.

Yes, nerfing Luigi, Rosalina, etc. out of their good specials would drop them in tiers. I'm not denying this, but it'd be even worse if they lost their quality standard attacks. Luigi's more likely to maintain a mediocre C tier status without good specials than he is without good standards.
Smash 4 Luigi's standards were nerfed quite significantly from Brawl Luigi's (you think Smash 4 Luigi's smashes and tilts and aerials are really strong now? You should have seen Brawl Luigi's). How come Smash 4 Luigi is high tier while Brawl Luigi was borderline low? Besides better mobility and less severely OP zoners, Smash 4 Luigi got a buffed projectile that he was a lot more capable of zoning with (thus really helping to mitigate those mobility issues and really helping him get in), while his Cyclone became a much more versatile move with many uses instead of just being a recovery aid. Luigi is a definite example of how the extended options specials provide go a much longer way towards improving the character than some better standards would.

I'm not saying damage building is THE most important, but it's up there, and characters would be nothing if they had an assortment of 11 or so moves that suck. That's my point. Standards are more valuable to an arsenal for a character's mainstay in the meta, barring exception cases. (Duck Hunt, Link, Young Link, Mega Man, Robin, etc.)

But at the end of the day, both are integral to making a character work. However, standard attacks are, as far as I can say, far less likely to jump a character multiple tiers than several buffs to standard attacks. Wii Fit Trainer didn't make 2 spots in Top 32 at EVO on Jumbo Hoop alone. It helped, but there was already something to her character people missed hidden away in her wonky hitboxes.
Wii Fit Trainer is a perfect example of how specials go a longer way. Her standards are for the most part really mediocre to outright terrible, but she has two really good projectiles, a great recovery, and Deep Breathing to provide a KO power boost when needed, which WFTs have been fully utilising to get these high placements.

For Melee Falcon, I already explained: If Falcon's in a recovery position, he still has the disadvantage of having to secure a position in which he can build momentum. He relies on momentum, or he's dead no matter how good his recovery is. No characteristic specials in Melee's context could possibly be better than the speed and versatility of his SHFF aerials. His weakness is in his playstyle, and the capability of the player piloting him. He's a very technically demanding character.
Falcon's poor recovery is what makes offstage such a killing situation for him. Getting back safely and effectively helps you retain your momentum a lot better than struggling and dying all the time when getting back.

I mean, there's nothing really there for them. Ice Climbers really rely on wobbling, and I don't think better specials could give substance to their standards. They're low-tier material in P:M without wobbling and chaingrabs, as an example
See Brawl Ice Climbers for how fully functional projectiles helped turn them from borderline high tiers to perhaps the second most overpowering character in the entire Smash series after Meta Knight.

But... it's pretty much true. If you're light and floaty, you're in the air longer. If you got knocked around, you're still in the air for a longer amount of time. Almost every floaty character in the game has compensating aerials, including Samus. Zelda's aerials are all, sans her Nair, pseudo-knees with a lot of lag and little reward
Having a projectile that makes you a lot harder to get in to hit, and having to not put yourself on the offensive so often, means you're going into the air a lot less often. Thus another way how just buffing Din's Fire adequately goes a really long way to helping Zelda out.

Villager is another good example. He's floatier than Zelda is, but he has good aerials that cover his movements. Only a character with movement like Sonic can feasibly pull off stall with hit-and-run tactics based purely on his absurd mobility. Other characters need aerials to cover their lengthy aerial times.
Villager is an example of how having such a strong zoning game significantly mitigates poor mobility and moves that work really poorly for putting out offense.

Her defensively tailored moveset is garbage. See: Every other stall-based character in the game. Her endlag on Lightning Kick would not suddenly make her able to toss them out like Jigglypuff Bairs, because that lag gives an opponent the opportunity to move in. Din's Fire would need to be absurdly broken in order to make her all-kill-move-aerials (sans Nair) viable, and at that point, Din's would be doing most of the work and would be an exceptional case ala Diddy Bananas in Brawl.
This exemplifies more of how you fail to understand how moves really intertwine and how the usefulness of a move can depend heavily on the rest of the character's kit. Lightning Kick becomes a lot more valuable on a character who can play an effective defensive game, as she is getting hit a lot less often and putting more pressure on her opponent, which means more opportunities to throw them out, and they become a lot more impactful when they do land, when sudden early percent kills mean a lot more when you can't kill your opponent as effectively and can't regain momentum as easily.

Sure replacing one of her Lightning Kicks with a move like a standard nair or bair would help her more than two Lightning Kicks, but having move redundancy is bad in general, and that alone would still leave her bad at initiating offense and incapable of playing defense, while a perspective viable Din's Fire would help cover Zelda's most gaping flaw.
 

Omega Tyrant

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AreJay25

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That's just standard youtube stuff and isn't a Nintendo specific problem. You have to be aware of what music tracks in games set off Content ID, and the only thing it really does the vast majority of the time is just make the video monetized for who set up the Content ID. Thus unless you're monetizing your videos, it doesn't matter.
I understand that it's a YouTube problem. What I don't understand is how YouTube expects everyone to know which of the 400+ songs in the game will give them a copyright claim.
 
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