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Arcanir
An old friend evolved
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And here's my issue with that point: What makes you say that they're just "merchandise bait" anymore then any other Pokémon? I would argue in turn that the object Pokémon fit into their world just as much as their animalistic counterparts, to borrow a previous example, Garbodor fits in due to the fact that it appears in an urban environment where there's a lot of waste buildup. So nothing about them is really all that different conceptually aside from the fact that they're objects.
Again, haunted objects have been a part of mythology and media for many years and will continue to be for many years to come, especially in Japanese mythology where Pokémon's creation comes from. So I don't see how object Pokémon are automatically subject to being "merchandise bait" when that's not a concept that's been lacking throughout human history nor are they any more or less guilty of it then other Pokémon.
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Coricus
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So his anecdote means nothing because of your anecdote?
If we're going to have an anecdote exchange, I see as much or more Yo-Kai Watch merchandise in Gamestop and a local supermarket chain than I do Pokemon merchandise.
And I can't even remember the last time I saw inanimate object merchandise. A lot of it is plushies of Pikachu and the starters, with maybe the regional rodent and fossil Pokemon thrown in. Don't even remember seeing a Dedenne.
Maybe in one of those plastic sets, I guess?
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powerprotoman
Smash Master
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all im saying is i got a plush dratini from kfc during gen 1...i miss that dratiniPokémon literally did not have the amount big name brands (Good Smile, TOMY, Figurarts, and many, many more) making toys for it in the 90's as it does now (let alone parterships to make products to release with the game on release), like not even close. The game also wasn't packaged or sold with toys. There also wasn't such a thing as Pokémon planes or Pokémon specific shops.
Like you have to be a try hard apologist to pursue this argument, it's dead on arrival. Just look up "Pokémon toys" on Google and look at the range of stuff you can get, and where you can get them. I don't know what you thought you were trying to pull here.
And no, I did nothing for you. Calling a Pokémon merchandise bait isn't me saying I dislike it (and I won't dislike something for being merchandise bait - I love Yoshi's Woolly World, after all). It just means I'm recognising the intended purpose of it's design. A floating keychain is actually pretty funny and novel to me personally, but I am hard pressed to believe that it was created for anything other than at attempt at making something merchandisable (especially since none of it's creative potential is realised).
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I think you're being unnecessarily cynical. Pokémon toys aren't a part of the core experience (unlike say Transformers), so you aren't really compelled to buy them.Pokémon literally did not have the amount big name brands (Good Smile, TOMY, Figurarts, and many, many more) making toys for it in the 90's as it does now (let alone parterships to make products to release with the game on release), like not even close. The game also wasn't packaged or sold with toys. There also wasn't such a thing as Pokémon planes or Pokémon specific shops.
Like you have to be a try hard apologist to pursue this argument, it's dead on arrival. Just look up "Pokémon toys" on Google and look at the range of stuff you can get, and where you can get them. I don't know what you thought you were trying to pull here.
And no, I did nothing for you. Calling a Pokémon merchandise bait isn't me saying I dislike it (and I won't dislike something for being merchandise bait - I love Yoshi's Woolly World, after all
Anything popular is going to have merchandise and honestly, there is a demand for it among the fans and there's nothing wrong with tapping into that market.
powerprotoman
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like heres the KFC commercial for pokemon beanie babies
Still got my Link, Yoshi, Mario, and Kirby from Burger King in 2002. Never could get that ****ing Golden Yoshi though. I wanted that thing.
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I remember the various Gen 1 Pokeballs you could get at BK alone. I got a ton of them. (Or was it McDonald's?) Regardless, series is just plain merchandise-driven to a severe degree. The anime is mostly advertising for merchandise as is(although it does have its own fun subplots that aren't about it, especially the filler seasons).
Burruni
Smash Hero
So.
To avoid the argument about the series I've literally grown up with about something in my opinion absolutely moot.
Full list of Pokemon type combinations and a mon of each applicable on, if available.
I probably forgot a few.
To avoid the argument about the series I've literally grown up with about something in my opinion absolutely moot.
Full list of Pokemon type combinations and a mon of each applicable on, if available.
Rock: Nosepass
-Water: Corsola
-Electric: N/A
-Grass: Cradilly
-Poison: N/A
-Psychic: Lunatone
-Fire: Macargo
-Ground: Onix
-Flying: Aerodactyl
-Bug: Crustle
-Normal: N/A
-Ghost: N/A
-Fighting: Terrakion
-Steel: Aggron
-Ice: Aurorus
-Dragon: Tyrantum
-Dark: Tyranitar
-Fairy: Carbink
Water: Magikarp
-Electric: Lanturn
-Grass: Ludicolo
-Poison: Tentacool
-Psychic: Starmie
-Fire: Volcanion
-Ground: Quagsire
-Flying: Mantine
-Bug: Surskit
-Normal: Bibarel
-Ghost: Jellicent
-Fighting: Poliwrath
-Steel: Empoleon
-Ice: Lapras
-Dragon: Kingdra
-Dark: Sharpedo
-Fairy: Azumarill
Electric: Pikachu
-Grass: Mow Rotom
-Poison: N/A
-Psychic: N/A
-Fire: Rotom Heat
-Ground: Stunfisk
-Flying: Emolga
-Bug: Galvantula
-Normal: Heliolisk
-Ghost: Rotom
-Fighting: N/A
-Steel: Magneton
-Ice: Rotom Fridge
-Dragon: Zekrom
-Dark: N/A
-Fairy: Dendenne
Grass: Tangela
-Poison: Venusaur
-Psychic: Exeggutor
-Fire: N/A
-Ground: Torterra
-Flying: Tropius
-Bug: Parasect
-Normal: Sawsbuck
-Ghost: Gorgeist
-Fighting: Breloom
-Steel: Ferrothorn
-Ice: Abomasnow
-Dragon: Mega Sceptille
-Dark: Cacturne
-Fairy: Whimsicott
Poison: Arbok
-Psychic: N/A
-Fire: Salamandit
-Ground: Nidoking
-Flying: Crobat
-Bug: Beedrill
-Normal: N/A
-Ghost: Gengar
-Fighting: Toxicroak
-Steel: N/A
-Ice: N/A
-Dragon: Dragalgae
-Dark: Drapion
-Fairy: N/A
Psychic: Alakazam
-Fire: Delphox
-Ground: Claydol
-Flying: Xatu
-Bug: N/A
-Normal: Girafarig
-Ghost: Hoopa
-Fighting: Gallade
-Steel: Metagross
-Ice: Jynx
-Dragon: Lati@s
-Dark: Malamar
-Fairy: Gardevoir
Fire: Typhlosion
-Ground: Camerupt
-Flying: Charizard
-Bug: Volcarona
-Normal: Pyroar
-Ghost: Chandellure
-Fighting: Blaziken
-Steel: Heatran
-Ice: N/A
-Dragon: Reshiram
-Dark: Houndoom
-Fairy: N/A
Ground: Dugtrio
-Flying: Gliscor
-Bug: Nincada
-Normal: Diggersby
-Ghost: Gollurk
-Fighting: N/A
-Steel: Steelix
-Ice: N/A
-Dragon: Flygon
-Dark: Krookodile
-Fairy: N/A
Flying: Tornadus
-Bug: Butterfree
-Normal: Pidgeot
-Ghost: Drifblim
-Fighting: Hawlucha
-Steel: Skarmory
-Ice: Articuno
-Dragon: Dragonite
-Dark: Honchkrow
-Fairy: Togekiss
Bug: Caterpie
-Normal: N/A
-Ghost: Shedinja
-Fighting: Heracross
-Steel: Durant
-Ice: N/A
-Dragon: N/A
-Dark: N/A
-Fairy: Cutiefly
Normal: Miltank
-Ghost: N/A
-Fighting: Mega Lopunny
-Steel: N/A
-Ice: N/A
-Dragon: Drampa
-Dark: N/A
-Fairy: Jigglypuff
Ghost: Mismagius
-Fighting: N/A
-Steel: N/A
-Ice: Froslass
-Dragon Giratina
-Dark: Spiritomb
-Fairy: Mimikyu
Fighting: Machamp
-Steel: Lucario
-Ice: N/A
-Dragon: N/A
-Dark: Scrafty
-Fairy: N/A
Steel: Mega Aggron
-Ice: Snowslash
-Dragon: Dialga
-Dark: Bisharp
-Fairy: Mawile
Ice: Glailie
-Dragon: Kyurem
-Dark: N/A
-Fairy: N/A
Dragon: Dratini
-Dark: N/A
-Fairy: Mega Altaria
Dark: Zoroark
-Fairy: N/A
Fairy: Sylpheon.
-Water: Corsola
-Electric: N/A
-Grass: Cradilly
-Poison: N/A
-Psychic: Lunatone
-Fire: Macargo
-Ground: Onix
-Flying: Aerodactyl
-Bug: Crustle
-Normal: N/A
-Ghost: N/A
-Fighting: Terrakion
-Steel: Aggron
-Ice: Aurorus
-Dragon: Tyrantum
-Dark: Tyranitar
-Fairy: Carbink
Water: Magikarp
-Electric: Lanturn
-Grass: Ludicolo
-Poison: Tentacool
-Psychic: Starmie
-Fire: Volcanion
-Ground: Quagsire
-Flying: Mantine
-Bug: Surskit
-Normal: Bibarel
-Ghost: Jellicent
-Fighting: Poliwrath
-Steel: Empoleon
-Ice: Lapras
-Dragon: Kingdra
-Dark: Sharpedo
-Fairy: Azumarill
Electric: Pikachu
-Grass: Mow Rotom
-Poison: N/A
-Psychic: N/A
-Fire: Rotom Heat
-Ground: Stunfisk
-Flying: Emolga
-Bug: Galvantula
-Normal: Heliolisk
-Ghost: Rotom
-Fighting: N/A
-Steel: Magneton
-Ice: Rotom Fridge
-Dragon: Zekrom
-Dark: N/A
-Fairy: Dendenne
Grass: Tangela
-Poison: Venusaur
-Psychic: Exeggutor
-Fire: N/A
-Ground: Torterra
-Flying: Tropius
-Bug: Parasect
-Normal: Sawsbuck
-Ghost: Gorgeist
-Fighting: Breloom
-Steel: Ferrothorn
-Ice: Abomasnow
-Dragon: Mega Sceptille
-Dark: Cacturne
-Fairy: Whimsicott
Poison: Arbok
-Psychic: N/A
-Fire: Salamandit
-Ground: Nidoking
-Flying: Crobat
-Bug: Beedrill
-Normal: N/A
-Ghost: Gengar
-Fighting: Toxicroak
-Steel: N/A
-Ice: N/A
-Dragon: Dragalgae
-Dark: Drapion
-Fairy: N/A
Psychic: Alakazam
-Fire: Delphox
-Ground: Claydol
-Flying: Xatu
-Bug: N/A
-Normal: Girafarig
-Ghost: Hoopa
-Fighting: Gallade
-Steel: Metagross
-Ice: Jynx
-Dragon: Lati@s
-Dark: Malamar
-Fairy: Gardevoir
Fire: Typhlosion
-Ground: Camerupt
-Flying: Charizard
-Bug: Volcarona
-Normal: Pyroar
-Ghost: Chandellure
-Fighting: Blaziken
-Steel: Heatran
-Ice: N/A
-Dragon: Reshiram
-Dark: Houndoom
-Fairy: N/A
Ground: Dugtrio
-Flying: Gliscor
-Bug: Nincada
-Normal: Diggersby
-Ghost: Gollurk
-Fighting: N/A
-Steel: Steelix
-Ice: N/A
-Dragon: Flygon
-Dark: Krookodile
-Fairy: N/A
Flying: Tornadus
-Bug: Butterfree
-Normal: Pidgeot
-Ghost: Drifblim
-Fighting: Hawlucha
-Steel: Skarmory
-Ice: Articuno
-Dragon: Dragonite
-Dark: Honchkrow
-Fairy: Togekiss
Bug: Caterpie
-Normal: N/A
-Ghost: Shedinja
-Fighting: Heracross
-Steel: Durant
-Ice: N/A
-Dragon: N/A
-Dark: N/A
-Fairy: Cutiefly
Normal: Miltank
-Ghost: N/A
-Fighting: Mega Lopunny
-Steel: N/A
-Ice: N/A
-Dragon: Drampa
-Dark: N/A
-Fairy: Jigglypuff
Ghost: Mismagius
-Fighting: N/A
-Steel: N/A
-Ice: Froslass
-Dragon Giratina
-Dark: Spiritomb
-Fairy: Mimikyu
Fighting: Machamp
-Steel: Lucario
-Ice: N/A
-Dragon: N/A
-Dark: Scrafty
-Fairy: N/A
Steel: Mega Aggron
-Ice: Snowslash
-Dragon: Dialga
-Dark: Bisharp
-Fairy: Mawile
Ice: Glailie
-Dragon: Kyurem
-Dark: N/A
-Fairy: N/A
Dragon: Dratini
-Dark: N/A
-Fairy: Mega Altaria
Dark: Zoroark
-Fairy: N/A
Fairy: Sylpheon.
I probably forgot a few.
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Man I would have been so disappointed if I got a Zubat.
Schnee117
Too Majestic for Gender
Tyrunt line is Rock/Dragon
Dialga is Dragon/Steel
Deino line is Dark/Dragon
Lileep line is Grass/Rock
Lunatone/Solrock are Rock/Psychic
Swinub line is Ground/Ice
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Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma
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Champ Gold
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I like doing mine as well
- Sonic 3 & Knuckles
- Persona 4 Golden
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Burruni
Smash Hero
Lilleep and the Celestial Rocks are entirely my bad.
Dragons are because I realized when I copy-pasted my formatting I forgot like dragon halfway through and just hurried trying to rush em.
EDITING TIME
ChikoLad
Purple Boi
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What differentiates a Pokémon from being a legitimate attempt at something creative, or just merchandise bait, is how they are integrated into the world, story, or game.
Klefki is literally just a random Pokémon you catch. No special context to it. It's a keychain Pokémon made to sell merch.
However, had they integrated it into the story, world, or gameplay in an interesting way (like Gen 1 and 2 often did), then that could have been a really cool concept that wouldn't come off as such a blatant attempt at creating merchandise. Like, for example, maybe there is a key Pokémon that you can find, and it has different colour variants (but still the same name, like Unown and the variants of that), depending on where you find it in the world. It's not a legendary, but is reasonably rare. You can use them in fights, but they are also needed within the world to open matching colour doors (maybe in ruins that are scattered about and feed into a bigger mystery). But if you collect 1 of each colour key, they combine and you find they evolve into a keychain Pokémon, like Klefki. And then you only need the one Pokémon to get into every special ruin in the game, but also have a stronger Pokémon, as expected.
You guys keep misunderstanding my argument as "Pokémon has more merchandise now, that's bad", or as "I don't like the new Pokémon's designs so they are unoriginal", or "inanimate objects are inherently bad". None of these things are near what I was saying.
My point is that the series is UNDENIABLY more focused on the merchandise now - whether or not you consider that a good or bad thing is irrelevant. There is a considerable lack of effort in fleshing out these Pokémon in the context of the game, world, or story, compared to the first two generations. Those two generations had all of these interesting, mysterious ways of integrating the Pokémon in some way. The concept I just described is sorta like what Gen 2 did with Unown (though they were actually one of a kind or especially rare, IIRC). Nowadays though, Pokémon are just there to be caught in the game, and bought in the shop, with no particularly interesting integration, in most cases.
And before anyone says "it would take too much work to do this with every Pokémon", Yokai-Watch does exactly this. Part of the reason, is because it ditched the archaic random encounter system that Pokémon hangs onto for no particular reason.
His anecdote means nothing because I can contradict it with mine, and someone else can do it with mine, and then it goes on forever.
Thanks for proving my point.
Chrono.
...
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No because they created a yellow electric mouse.
Burruni
Smash Hero
Man.
That alone is so subjective.
But saying that a pokemon that's the embodiment on the concept in many cultures of there being some fae-like supernatual being responsible for the misplacement of keys is created solely to make merchandise, because "it's just there to catch" is just.... I don't know the word, so I'll just say arrogant. Especially when most of the integration of pokemon happens in the show.
Growlithes being used for police work, being a perfect example.
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powerprotoman
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i ate pokemon themed poptarts and pokemon cereal out of a pokemon bowl while watching the pokemon anime on my pokemon themed bed spread as a child drinking orange juice out of a pokemon glass
"more focused on merchandise" my ass
five guesses what my VCR was themed after
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Yeah Chiko...
I think you're on your own here...
You're making points, but everyone else is seeing an attitude underneath it.
I think you're on your own here...
You're making points, but everyone else is seeing an attitude underneath it.
AwesomeAussie27
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Even though this might seem impossible due to Sakurai's "have to originate from a video game" rule, I wonder if it's possible to get any representation from the official Nintendo mobile games.
Like, what if we were able to get trophies of the original Pokemon GO characters (Willow and the three gym leaders). It may not be anything completely drastic like a stage (which would be difficult due to the heavy reliance on maps and augmented reality), but it would be something nice to see in Smash 5.
Like, what if we were able to get trophies of the original Pokemon GO characters (Willow and the three gym leaders). It may not be anything completely drastic like a stage (which would be difficult due to the heavy reliance on maps and augmented reality), but it would be something nice to see in Smash 5.
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Mobile Games are video games anyway. So it doesn't break his rule at all.
ChikoLad
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No, creativity is not as subjective as people think.
If something is based on something that already exists, then it's not really creative. Most Pokémon aren't creative because they are literally just another Pokémon with no real unique integration. I'm going by dictionary definition here.
I know every Pokémon has a basic backstory at least, but that's not really enough. Mario has a basic backstory, but I wouldn't call him a compelling character that they try to integrate into the world in a meaningful way (not that he needs to be).
I've also said that Pokémon is fine to continue the way it is, and that I don't see it as wrong, so I don't see where you get off on calling me arrogant, when my points are literally just suggestions and not just "it absolutely has to do this to be good" (like I've seen you do with plenty of other games, Yokai-Watch being one. Nice to see you still love projecting yourself onto others, btw).
I think you're just trolling at this point, but that's nothing to do with what I'm saying. The merchandise itself existing isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about how the Pokémon are integrated into the games, their purpose in the games. Nowadays, it's mostly just for merchandise, while before, it was a mix of merchandise and legitimate attempts at being creative.
Well I mean, it doesn't surprise me that people around here would project attitudes onto me to shelter themselves and make themselves feel better about themselves. It's par for the course here.
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Yomi's Biggest Fan
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Nothing's really stopping mobile representation to be impossible for Smash since Nintendo still owns to the right to such characters. I'm not sure about characters from mobile games being likely as fighters (I doubt anyone wants a playable Instinct/Valor/Mystic gym leader), but minor cameos in the form of trophies shouldn't be too bad. A stage would honestly be kind of hard unless it's something truly original or wanted. The Miimoto Room can easily pass off as an extension for the Tomodachi Life stage while there's nothing really original for Pokemon GO other than gyms (which can pass as Pokemon Stadium variations).
The only thing you really have to do is have a "Mobile" label for trophies since it's not really a copyrighted platform created by Nintendo. That way, they won't have to get into any extra trouble for bringing Android or Apple into this by mentioning their platforms. Or they can just don't give it a label at all similar to characters originating from non-Nintendo platforms like Silver the Hedgehog.
The only thing you really have to do is have a "Mobile" label for trophies since it's not really a copyrighted platform created by Nintendo. That way, they won't have to get into any extra trouble for bringing Android or Apple into this by mentioning their platforms. Or they can just don't give it a label at all similar to characters originating from non-Nintendo platforms like Silver the Hedgehog.
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Maybe we just see an attitude and we're calling a cow, a cow.
You're not infallible man. It's okay.
Everyone has those moments.
ChikoLad
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Are you really going to go ahead and throw insults at me (and then claim I have an attitude problem even though I never insulted you) over the fact I made some suggestions towards a series I grew up with just because you disagree with them and can't stand any sort of alternative perspective other than "my favourite is perfect and how dare you suggest some new things for it to try"?
Because that was uncalled for. I'm pretty sure that means you have the attitude problem here. Not that that's new, coming from you.
I'm aware of my faults, and I work to improve on them. You should try it some time. So should Pokémon.
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Champ Gold
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Only when they make the PG equivalent of Mara is when I say Pokemon has ran out of ideas
Until then I wait for the deodorant Pokemon
Until then I wait for the deodorant Pokemon
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It needs a remake of Sweet Scent as its signature move. >.>
SegaNintendoUbisoft
The Amateur Artist
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AwesomeAussie27
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Inb4 someone makes a Pokemon GO trainer support topic soon.
Avoiding any mentions of iOS and Android are definitely something that can be done. Just like how any PlayStation/Xbox/Sega logo is never used for similar trophies for obvious reason.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
Inb4 someone makes a Pokemon GO trainer support topic soon.
They've never been on a Nintendo console
Not going to happen
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That wasn't an insult. I was just saying you are showing an attitude which other people seem to agree with.
I even said we all have those moments to bring everyone down on the same level.
I was trying to be nice.
But if you're going to get mean, I suggest you stop.
Because you're only proving my point.
Cutie Gwen
Lovely warrior
The problem is that 'they're running out of ideas' is an instant trigger-word for many, many fans. And to counter your claim of Klefki being 'merch bait'. Not only does it have very little actually merchandise, but it's also a pokemon with some pretty alright stats, a great defensive typing and an annoying support/troll pokemon on teams. There aren't many pokemon who can get the job done like Klefki can despite it not being the only Prankster thing out there
Yomi's Biggest Fan
See You Next Year, Baby
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Or a Pokemon that's a living drug joke like the hallucinatory shroom Pokemon from that debunked leak.
ChikoLad
Purple Boi
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>Literally calls someone "a cow"
>"I was trying to be nice, it wasn't an insult!"
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cow
Just please stop man, before I report you.
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Chrono.
...
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And yet another reason why I kinda wanted that dex leak to be real.
Burruni
Smash Hero
Still waiting til we hit this level.
Because it's absurd and amazing and don't you dare say uncreative.
AwesomeAussie27
Banned via Warnings
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Exactly. Which brings up the point of mobile characters not being from a legit Nintendo console before anyone get ideas.
Though some Pokemon GO trophies wouldn't be bad.
Chrono.
...
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Yokai Watch already hit this by the 3rd game.
Still waiting til we hit this level.
Because it's absurd and amazing and don't you dare say uncreative.
ChikoLad
Purple Boi
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As long as it's integrated well into the world, story, or gameplay, then sure.
Still waiting til we hit this level.
Because it's absurd and amazing and don't you dare say uncreative.
Maybe you have to buy ketchup and a deep fat fryer at a PokéMart to evolve it into the second form.
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