Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

I know Pik is a great modder that’s been around since Brawl so I have a lot of faith that Aerith is going to come out great. He made an amazing custom Crono model for Ultimate that looks like it could have been official.

I used to be really into making Brawl mods back in the day. Since then we haven’t made any mods ourselves until somewhat recently. A few months ago, we tried our hand at a few of them but were a bit rusty after over 10 years of not making anything. All things considered, I’m really happy with how they came out and hopefully we will continue to improve once we have more free time and could make more characters.

Here’s what I’ve been able to do with my brother so far for Ultimate:

Spoiler

The full mods (model swap and voices) we made so far are:

The Rock - Captain Falcon
Zitz and Pimple - Captain Falcon
Lickitung - Yoshi
Bill Rizer and Lance Bean - Samus
Sub-Zero/Scorpion/other ninjas - Ryu
Leonardo - Pit

Mods we helped with:

Rash - Captain Falcon
The Undertaker - Richter
Shawn Michaels - Ryu

Mods I’ve just done voices for so far:

Bakugo - Incineroar
Uravity - Peach
Raphael - Incineroar
Michelangelo - Terry
Donatello - Richter
Splinter - Lucario
Shredder - Kazuya
Stone Cold - Kazuya
John Cena - Ryu
Casey Jones - Byleth
April O’Neil - ZSS
Renji - Byleth
Ichigo - Cloud
Balrog - Little Mac
Vi - Little Mac
Blanka - Donkey Kong
Gan Ning - Chrom
Silco - Marth
Wakka - Wii Fit Trainer
Magus - Sephiroth
Illidan - Sephiroth and Kazuya
Zegram - Ike

 

[DarthEnderX]

I also propose Charizard being separated from Pokemon Trainer like in SSB4 while Trainer continues to have Squirtle and Ivysaur, each with their own Final Smash.

No reason not to make all of them separate Fighters at that point.

Give each of them a different Trainer:
Red for Charizard
Leaf for Ivysaur
Blue for Squirtle

This is such a questionable take that I see all the time and I'm just wondering why people think it's a good idea... Why would they break the starters up when they were explicitly conceived in Brawl as a trio that represents

Because transformation characters suck and having 3 independent, properly balanced Fighters with complete movesets would be better.

they were explicitly conceived in Brawl as a trio that represents 1) the three starter types that are the same in every single Pokémon game (Grass/Fire/Water) and 2) the three stages of evolution?

And WHY exactly do those things need to be represented by one Fighter? Isn't 3 different starters better represented by 3 different Fighters?

And why does evolution even need to be represented by a Fighter in the first place? Because it's a thing in Pokemon? Lots of things are things in Pokemon.

Why isn't there a 'trading Pokemon' Fighter? Or a 'collecting badges' Fighter?

Why would they go through all that hassle, break up an iconic trio, and ruin a perfectly good moveset design?

It's NOT a perfectly good moveset. It's 3 times as complicated as a normal moveset, but isn't any stronger than any other moveset.

It's a lot more work for no payoff.

Sorry for being a little off-topic, but i wanna see a Terry Bogard mod for UMvC3. or any SNK character.

Oh, and a Tatsunoko character too.

Eventually, UMvC3 is just going to become 3D Mugen.

 

[Sucumbio]

Something looks off...

 

[Ivander]

Eventually, UMvC3 is just going to become 3D Mugen.

For better or worse.....I feel like the closer it goes to the latter, the more I feel some of the Marvel and Capcom characters I want will never happen in favor of 3D Mugen. That said, the updates that have been happening for it regarding the hidden character spaces and custom animations are great nevertheless.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

It's NOT a perfectly good moveset. It's 3 times as complicated as a normal moveset, but isn't any stronger than any other moveset.

It's a lot more work for no payoff.

I think the point of Pokémon Trainer is supposed to be that you're three times as versatile, not three times as strong.

 

[fogbadge]

Speaking of indies...

View attachment 384933

Can you imagine?

i can imagine nearly anything

 

[Nabbitfan730]

EDIT: Oh, and its weird we overlook Japanese indie games in this discussion despite lower workload from Sakurai's perspective. Maybe that brings up another issue with indie characters though. Independently made media tends to be much more regionalized in nature.

Side note, this is neglecting the likes of Reimu when discussing Japanese popularity. Undertale and Touhou naturally have a lot in common, and even share the role of its music being a staple of rhythm arcade machines now. Both are wildly popular. I personally don't think Reimu has the necessary official western presence to be a strong contender but I figured it was worth pointing out I kinda put her in her own little box outside of the typical indie talk.

The Japanese Doujin Scene.

Very odd and yet unsurprising it gets overlooked in terms of Smash Bros when it comes to obscure and indie reps when in actuality they would be easier to get. I fallen to the traps myself but talks on indie in general are very often Western-favored with like Reimu being come with scorn and distaste during Ult Speculation run when arguably Touhou has the best out of all indie reps alongside Undertale with strong foothold in both.

I think Touhou has a strong enough presence in West to warrant an inclusion. Limited Western appeal didn't stop Fire Emblem, Dragon Quest nor King of Fighters from the making the cut. It can be seen just another marketing push into the Western like the former.

 

[RileyXY1]

The Japanese Doujin Scene.

Very odd and yet unsurprising it gets overlooked in terms of Smash Bros when it comes to obscure and indie reps when in actuality they would be easier to get. I fallen to the traps myself but talks on indie in general are very often Western-favored with like Reimu being come with scorn and distaste during Ult Speculation run when arguably Touhou has the best out of all indie reps alongside Undertale with strong foothold in both.

I think Touhou has a strong enough presence in West to warrant an inclusion. Limited Western appeal didn't stop Fire Emblem, Dragon Quest nor King of Fighters from the making the cut. It can be seen just another marketing push into the Western like the former.

You forgot to mention Earthbound as well.

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve been on a bit of a RPG kick lately. I finally finished Octopath Traveller 2 and the DLC for Xenoblade 3. I’m working on Triangle Strategy now and I’m planning on getting the Tales of Arise DLC next. I’ve also got Disgaea 6, Shin Megami Tensei 5 and a bunch of others I’m hoping to get to at some point as well.

Are there any other RPG characters you’d love to see in Smash? Some of my own most wanted are Magus (Chrono Trigger), Zegram (Rogue Galaxy), H’aanit (Octopath Traveller), Etna (Disgaea), Garnet (Final Fantasy), Alphen/Shionne (Tales), and Xemnas (Kingdom Hearts).

 

[fogbadge]

I’ve been on a bit of a RPG kick lately. I finally finished Octopath Traveller 2 and the DLC for Xenoblade 3. I’m working on Triangle Strategy now and I’m planning on getting the Tales of Arise DLC next. I’ve also got Disgaea 6, Shin Megami Tensei 5 and a bunch of others I’m hoping to get to at some point as well.

Are there any other RPG characters you’d love to see in Smash? Some of my own most wanted are Magus (Chrono Trigger), Zegram (Rogue Galaxy), H’aanit (Octopath Traveller), Etna (Disgaea), Garnet (Final Fantasy), Alphen/Shionne (Tales), and Xemnas (Kingdom Hearts).

i will give it a think and get back to you

 

[Oracle Link]

How about Lanino and Elnina for the next smash?
...
as Spirits Releasing with Sans or some other UT/ dR Character!
because they are these guys from the unrealesed Chapter 3 of deltarune:

Their names were revealed in a Ultra Rare trading Valentins Card (yes im not joking)

Seriously everyone waiting for all of deltarune to be out before engaging with it gives themselves a huge deservice!

 

[Gorgonzales]

Seriously everyone waiting for all of deltarune to be out before engaging with it gives themselves a huge deservice!

How is wanting to experience the entire game when it's complete doing myself a disservice? Genuinely curious, btw

 

[Oracle Link]

How is wanting to experience the entire game when it's complete doing myself a disservice? Genuinely curious, btw

There is so much discourse and an entire comunity based on waiting! Heck Toby fox has uploaded multiple newsletters and the spamton Sweepstakes all with Character Interactions, pictures and short stories! Than we have the theory scene that goes wild everytime we recieve new information!
Not only that but the game with all its cliffhanger sorta Expects you to play it live! (obviously you could still wait but it isnt the ideal way)
For example a character in chapter 2 mentions how the night (between chapter 1 and 2) felt like YEARS which it did Except if you play everything in 2030!

Like you know the valentins trading cards? There are 40+ of them all from characters from Deltarune and Undertale!
And toby makes sure that he doesnt spoil us we literally only know 1 enemy, the 2 bosses, 1 room, and some non spoilery fluff thats it!

Should i continue?

 

[Gorgonzales]

There is so much discourse and an entire comunity based on waiting! Heck Toby fox has uploaded multiple newsletters and the spamton Sweepstakes all with Character Interactions, pictures and short stories! Than we have the theory scene that goes wild everytime we recieve new information!
Not only that but the game with all its cliffhanger sorta Expects you to play it live! (obviously you could still wait but it isnt the ideal way)
For example a character in chapter 2 mentions how the night (between chapter 1 and 2) felt like YEARS which it did Except if you play everything in 2030!

Like you know the valentins trading cards? There are 40+ of them all from characters from Deltarune and Undertale!
And toby makes sure that he doesnt spoil us we literally only know 1 enemy, the 2 bosses, 1 room, and some non spoilery fluff thats it!

Should i continue?

Thank you for your explanation. I can definitely see the benefit of playing it live, but as someone who isn't super involved in Undertale's community I think I'd still rather play it when its all done; I've watched series where they joke about the long wait between seasons/installments and I can still understand what they were going for, so I personally don't mind. I like experiencing things in their totality, too.

Believe me, Smash speculation provides more than enough waiting-based discussion for me, lol

 

[Lionfranky]

The Japanese Doujin Scene.

Very odd and yet unsurprising it gets overlooked in terms of Smash Bros when it comes to obscure and indie reps when in actuality they would be easier to get. I fallen to the traps myself but talks on indie in general are very often Western-favored with like Reimu being come with scorn and distaste during Ult Speculation run when arguably Touhou has the best out of all indie reps alongside Undertale with strong foothold in both.

I think Touhou has a strong enough presence in West to warrant an inclusion. Limited Western appeal didn't stop Fire Emblem, Dragon Quest nor King of Fighters from the making the cut. It can be seen just another marketing push into the Western like the former.

Then, the same should be applied to western franchises like Halo for Japanese market.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I’ve been on a bit of a RPG kick lately. I finally finished Octopath Traveller 2 and the DLC for Xenoblade 3. I’m working on Triangle Strategy now and I’m planning on getting the Tales of Arise DLC next. I’ve also got Disgaea 6, Shin Megami Tensei 5 and a bunch of others I’m hoping to get to at some point as well.

Are there any other RPG characters you’d love to see in Smash? Some of my own most wanted are Magus (Chrono Trigger), Zegram (Rogue Galaxy), H’aanit (Octopath Traveller), Etna (Disgaea), Garnet (Final Fantasy), Alphen/Shionne (Tales), and Xemnas (Kingdom Hearts).

I literally just finished Triangle strategy last week! I think the story was dragging a bit with way too many dialogues but for the gameplay it's an amazing game, easily among the best tactical games I've played.

For Smash, despite rpg being very well represented, there's still a few franchises that I'd like to see. If we're talking Japanese, I'd really like to see something from Phantasy star like Alis Landale. I'm actually not a huge fan of the franchise (never actually played it aside from a few hours on PSO2, but I just really like the scifi aesthetic and this is something we actually don't have that much in Smash. If we're talking Western rpg, my first pick would be Shepard from Mass effect.

 

[Gengar84]

I literally just finished Triangle strategy last week! I think the story was dragging a bit with way too many dialogues but for the gameplay it's an amazing game, easily among the best tactical games I've played.

For Smash, despite rpg being very well represented, there's still a few franchises that I'd like to see. If we're talking Japanese, I'd really like to see something from Phantasy star like Alis Landale. I'm actually not a huge fan of the franchise (never actually played it aside from a few hours on PSO2, but I just really like the scifi aesthetic and this is something we actually don't have that much in Smash. If we're talking Western rpg, my first pick would be Shepard from Mass effect.

I just had a crazy battle the other day in Triangle Strategy. I won’t spoil the story but there were a series of choices I had to make and I think I went the most difficult route. The battle went an hour long and I don’t know if I was expected to win (my team was around level 11 and the boss was level 15). Basically, i was able to clear the map of all but five enemy units and the boss. My entire team was wiped out other than Hughette so i thought i had no hope. Luckily, i was able to avoid the enemies and fly around on rooftops before I picked them all off. There was an option i could have taken mid battle to make the match easier but i wanted to try avoiding that. Thankfully I managed to win without having to resort to that option.

Back to Smash, I love the whole HD-2D aesthetic Square-Enix has been using with its lower budget titles. I think a stage in that style would be awesome. The music in Octopath Traveller is amazing and would be great to get in Smash even if the series couldn’t get a playable character.

 

[Amornal1]

I literally just finished Triangle strategy last week! I think the story was dragging a bit with way too many dialogues but for the gameplay it's an amazing game, easily among the best tactical games I've played.

For Smash, despite rpg being very well represented, there's still a few franchises that I'd like to see. If we're talking Japanese, I'd really like to see something from Phantasy star like Alis Landale. I'm actually not a huge fan of the franchise (never actually played it aside from a few hours on PSO2, but I just really like the scifi aesthetic and this is something we actually don't have that much in Smash. If we're talking Western rpg, my first pick would be Shepard from Mass effect.

In my case, it would be monster hunter in the jrpg side and dovahkiin in the wrpg side.

 

[Gengar84]

If I could only pick one for each, I think I’d go with Magus for JRPG and Illidan Stormrage for western.

 

[Will]

dovahkiin in the wrpg side.

I would be okay with having the Dragonborn before Doom Slayer.

 

[RileyXY1]

I would be okay with having the Dragonborn before Doom Slayer.

It helps that Skyrim was the very first third party title announced to be ported to the Switch, and said Switch port has a Nintendo bonus where you can have your character wear Link's outfit from Breath of the Wild.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

ソラのamiiboが本日発売!
関係者のかた､本当にありがとうございました｡(スゴいことだと思います)
元々の完璧なデザインに､色分けも精細でバッチリ｡
造形もポーズもよいですね｡

全ファイターがamiibo化され､『スマブラSP』仕事もいよいよフィニッシュでしょうか｡おつかれさまでした｡ pic.twitter.com/zUBdMtA29y

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) February 16, 2024

Sakurai says that since the Sora amiibo released, he's finally finished with Ultimate.

Port dream is dead.

 

[RileyXY1]

Looks like it's officially been confirmed that the next Smash will be a completely new title and not just a port of Ultimate.

 

[Gengar84]

Looks like it's officially been confirmed that the next Smash will be a completely new title and not just a port of Ultimate.

Welp, fingers crossed that I can keep as many of my favorites as I can. As long as Sephiroth and Ganondorf stick around I’ll be okay. I don’t think I have to worry much about the latter. Sephiroth I can live with if the next Smash is “Nintendo vs X company that isn’t Square-Enix”.

Spoiler

I’ll be fine either way, that’s just what I’m personally hoping for.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The curtain closes on Ultimate. And will rise on World Circuit later this year.

Everyone Is Here Again......Eventually.

 

[Ivander]

So we're at that point where there's no guarantee we'll get everybody at the start?

 

[RileyXY1]

So we're at that point where there's no guarantee we'll get everybody at the start?
View attachment 384944

Yep. He says that Ultimate is complete, and is now moving on to the next game. It's very likely that we'll have the largest amount of cuts ever seen in a Smash game.

 

[Ivander]

Yep. He says that Ultimate is complete, and is now moving on to the next game. It's very likely that we'll have the largest amount of cuts ever seen in a Smash game.

And then we get only 5 cut, which is still a bit, but it's still lower than Smash 4's cuts.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

You know what would be hilarious?
If all the marketing for the next game made it a point not to show Mario until the last possible moment.

And then they treat it like a big deal.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Welp, fingers crossed that I can keep as many of my favorites as I can. As long as Sephiroth and Ganondorf stick around I’ll be okay. I don’t think I have to worry much about the latter. Sephiroth I can live with if the next Smash is “Nintendo vs X company that isn’t Square-Enix”.

Spoiler

I’ll be fine either way, that’s just what I’m personally hoping for.

Great, now I'm curious what a "Nintendo vs. Square Enix" game would look like...

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I was very surpised to see more spirit battles in Ultimate a few weeks ago, based off the Scarlet/Violet DLC. Thought Ultimate officially "ended" with Sora in 2021.

 

[Gengar84]

Great, now I'm curious what a "Nintendo vs. Square Enix" game would look like...

I’d be down for it. I love a lot of Square-Enix characters and games so there’s a lot to work with. I wonder if Sora and Kingdom Hearts would make it into that game. Geno would be a cool bridge character.

 

[Louie G.]

You know what would be hilarious?
If all the marketing for the next game made it a point not to show Mario until the last possible moment.

And then they treat it like a big deal.

I was talking about this the other day with some friends, lmao. Like how long would it take without seeing Mario to gaslight the community into genuinely thinking he was cut?

The thought of arguments like, if Mario was in they would have shown him by now is cracking me up.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Looks like Fighters Pass 3 is off the table.

 

[fogbadge]

I swear this is how you all acted the last time sakurai said ultimate was over

i will give it a think and get back to you

anyway i was gonna i go back to this

I've played a lot of RPGS over the years, though there are some aspects i'm getting tired of. like the constant use of characters who try to kill because of their daddy issues and supposed to lost fights which you can get a game over on. anyway there's probably plenty of rpg characters i'd still be please to see in smash

Agumon - granted digimon started off as a virtual pet but there's still a lot of RPG style games in the series so I'm counting it as a loophole. anyway this would be awesome to have, especially if we get a stage set on File Island

Neku - both TWEWY and NTWEWY were awesome games and the protag of the first game would make for incredible edition to the roster

Tiz - the Bravely Default series is pretty solid i'd say, even if the latest entry was quite a weak edition. none the less Tiz would be a welcome addition to the game

those are the main three that come to mind. of course there's plenty of characters from the rpgs already in the game that'd be cool to have, pokemon, KH, FF, XC etc

 

[Noipoi]

I’ve always been in the “No Ultimate Deluxe or Fighters Pass 3” camp.

Do I get a cookie?

 

[Guynamednelson]

"MY work on SSBU is finally coming to an end" could mean someone el-

No. I'm not going there. It's finished. Over. Joever.

 

[Ivander]

I’ve always been in the “No Ultimate Deluxe or Fighters Pass 3” camp.

Do I get a cookie?

We don't have any more hopium cookies left, would you like some pessimism cookies instead?

 

[Zerp]

Smash Ultimate was over, then it was over, later than that it was over, and now? It's over, yet again. But was it ever truly back?

 

[fogbadge]

We don't have any more hopium cookies left, would you like some pessimism cookies instead?

oh I love those