Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Noipoi]

Koopa posting

 

[BuckleyTim]

The more I think about it, the more I hope that the next Smash does go full reboot rather than just being... a traditional sequel that does the expected amount of cuts. This isn't to say that I couldn't handle stuff like Young Link and R.O.B. being cut, but Smash Ult is very clearly a game that had to compromise in certain areas to accommodate having 80 characters. What I worry is that there'd be similar compromises in a Smash 6 that'd still feel lame because of what they'd still have to cut at the end of the day. It's not a dealbreaker, but I kinda expect the next Smash singleplayer mode to still feel as hands-off as Ultimate's, as well as the character interactions in general. It's gonna be in this unsatisfying sweet spot of having too many characters to actually do things with them outside of the cgi trailers, but not ALL of them so it still stands in Ult's shadow despite the new things it brings to the table. Not that I wouldn't buy it when they add another one of my Never Evers, though.

 

[Gengar84]

The more I think about it, the more I hope that the next Smash does go full reboot rather than just being... a traditional sequel that does the expected amount of cuts. This isn't to say that I couldn't handle stuff like Young Link and R.O.B. being cut, but Smash Ult is very clearly a game that had to compromise in certain areas to accommodate having 80 characters. What I worry is that there'd be similar compromises in a Smash 6 that'd still feel lame because of what they'd still have to cut at the end of the day. It's not a dealbreaker, but I kinda expect the next Smash singleplayer mode to still feel as hands-off as Ultimate's, as well as the character interactions in general. It's gonna be in this unsatisfying sweet spot of having too many characters to actually do things with them outside of the cgi trailers, but not ALL of them so it still stands in Ult's shadow despite the new things it brings to the table. Not that I wouldn't buy it when they add another one of my Never Evers, though.

I kind of agree. My most wanted scenario is just to build on what we already have with Ultimate and not have any cuts. Barring that and if we return to a Brawl or Smash 4 sized roster, I’d rather have a full reboot as well. I wouldn’t be particularly interested in “Ultimate light” which is basically more of the same with less content. I’ll probably buy it too but I think I’d go back to Ultimate after too long.

 

[Sucumbio]

So has anyone booted up Golden Sun yet?

 

[Garteam]

The more I think about it, the more I hope that the next Smash does go full reboot rather than just being... a traditional sequel that does the expected amount of cuts. This isn't to say that I couldn't handle stuff like Young Link and R.O.B. being cut, but Smash Ult is very clearly a game that had to compromise in certain areas to accommodate having 80 characters. What I worry is that there'd be similar compromises in a Smash 6 that'd still feel lame because of what they'd still have to cut at the end of the day. It's not a dealbreaker, but I kinda expect the next Smash singleplayer mode to still feel as hands-off as Ultimate's, as well as the character interactions in general. It's gonna be in this unsatisfying sweet spot of having too many characters to actually do things with them outside of the cgi trailers, but not ALL of them so it still stands in Ult's shadow despite the new things it brings to the table. Not that I wouldn't buy it when they add another one of my Never Evers, though.

Could you elaborate a little further on what you think could better be done to make the individual characters feel more developed? I see this sentiment a lot, but I've never completely understood it. IMO, all of Ultimate's characters still have a lot of love put into them. Fighting games with significantly smaller rosters don't tend to add all of the little bells and whistles that each character gets in Smash, like the unique Eiha facial expressions and the boxing ring titles. Ultimate doesn't feel like, say, Budokai Tenkachi 3, where it's clear that a lot of corners are being cut in the interest of reaching a numerically high roster.

 

[dream1ng]

Which Koopa the Quick does in Japan.

Koopa the Quick doesn't refer to himself in the third person in the Japanese version, so he doesn't really have a name: "Koopa the Quick" or "Koopa Troopa". He's just a koopa troopa who wants to race Mario.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Here's something I just want to get off my chest that was probably discussed forever ago, but I just want to say it myself: If we get a Xenoblade 3 character in the next game, I want Matthew from Future Redeemed over Noah and/or Mio. It's extremely unlikely to happen, however, but it's something I'd really like to see happen over the obvious/safe choice of the base game protagonist(s), because of how Matthew is a brawler rather than a swordsman, making him more interesting to me, and it'll also probably satisfy Xenogears fans, with him being basically a Nintendo owned Fei Fong Wong.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

At the same time, Toad the Toad, as in the one who's supposed to actually be a character, has been a thing since SMB2. Plus, he's been playable in games where you can't play as a Koopa, so I can't imagine that's why they put him in spinoffs.

Okay this is extremely unrelated but knowing the pointless trivia that is who voices Toad in the japanese version of the Mario movieall i could think of when reading "Toad the toad" was "Gundam the Gundam"

Could you elaborate a little further on what you think could better be done to make the individual characters feel more developed? I see this sentiment a lot, but I've never completely understood it. IMO, all of Ultimate's characters still have a lot of love put into them. Fighting games with significantly smaller rosters don't tend to add all of the little bells and whistles that each character gets in Smash, like the unique Eiha facial expressions and the boxing ring titles. Ultimate doesn't feel like, say, Budokai Tenkachi 3, where it's clear that a lot of corners are being cut in the interest of reaching a numerically high roster.

Smash bros is an anomaly, any other fighting game roster as big as this would fall into the anime fighter style of roster where everyone feels the same to play as. But each smash character feels drastically different from each other.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think Captain Toad's chances were greatest in proximity to his game. Lately he's receded in prominence and I don't think that has helped his odds.

I suppose. But it's not as though anything has pushed Waluigi to the forefront during that time. Anything Waluigi has been in has also had Toad. And Toad still has his own game, and appeared prominently in the Mario Movie.

The only advantage Waluigi has over Toad is the Smash community's insistence on him.

I think it would be way better to just go with regular Toad rather than with Captain Toad.

I suspect any playable Toad will end up being an amalgamation of abilities from Captain Toad, Toadette, and regular Toads. With all of them being alt costumes.

 

[Gengar84]

I suppose. But it's not as though anything has pushed Waluigi to the forefront during that time. Anything Waluigi has been in has also had Toad. And Toad still has his own game, and appeared prominently in the Mario Movie.

The only advantage Waluigi has over Toad is the Smash community's insistence on him.

I suspect any playable Toad will end being an amalgamation of abilities from Captain Toad, Toadette, and regular Toads.

Same here. I think Toadette and Captain Toad would be alts for normal Toad. I’m a bit surprised Pikachu didn’t get a detective alt. It could also easily get the captain’s hat from the Horizons anime as another alt and a couple more of those alts from ORAS. I particularly liked the rocker outfit.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Just for fun, here’s my personal top 20 most wanted.

Here's my Top 30:

1. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
2. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
3. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
4. Kunio/Riki [River City]
5. SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug]
6. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]
7. Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
8. Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
9. Nightmare [Soulcalibur]
10. Kazuma Kiryu [Yakuza]
11. Nakoruru [Samurai Shodown]
12. Dante [Devil May Cry]
13. Phoenix Wright [Ace Attorney]
14. Viewtiful Joe [Viewtiful Joe]
15. Amaterasu [Okami]
16. Strider Hiryu [Strider]
17. Goemon/Ebisumaru [Legend of the Mystical Ninja]
18. Crono [Chrono Trigger]
19. Nathan Spencer [Bionic Commando]
20. Rash/Zitz [Battletoads]
21. Bomberman [Bomberman]
22. Estelle Bright [Legend of Heroes]
23. Shantae [Shantae]
24. Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
25. King Hippo [Punch-Out]
26. Firebrand [Gargoyle’s Quest]
27. Zero [Mega Man X]
28. Alucard [Castlevania]
29. Raiden [Metal Gear]
30. Mii Mage

 

[Gengar84]

Here's my Top 30:

1. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
2. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
3. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
4. Kunio/Riki [River City]
5. SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug]
6. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]
7. Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
8. Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
9. Nightmare [Soulcalibur]
10. Kazuma Kiryu [Yakuza]
11. Nakoruru [Samurai Shodown]
12. Dante [Devil May Cry]
13. Phoenix Wright [Ace Attorney]
14. Viewtiful Joe [Viewtiful Joe]
15. Amaterasu [Okami]
16. Strider Hiryu [Strider]
17. Goemon/Ebisumaru [Legend of the Mystical Ninja]
18. Crono [Chrono Trigger]
19. Nathan Spencer [Bionic Commando]
20. Rash/Zitz [Battletoads]
21. Bomberman [Bomberman]
22. Estelle Bright [Legend of Heroes]
23. Shantae [Shantae]
24. Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
25. King Hippo [Punch-Out]
26. Firebrand [Gargoyle’s Quest]
27. Zero [Mega Man X]
28. Alucard [Castlevania]
29. Raiden [Metal Gear]
30. Mii Mage

Looks like we share a few characters in our top 30. The ones we share are the Battletoads, Bill/Lance, Zero, Nightmare, and a Chrono Trigger character, though a different one. I did really enjoy Bubble Bobble and Legend of the Mystical Ninja as a kid and I’ve played a few DMC and Resident Evil games so they’d be nice inclusions too. The rest would all be cool too but I don’t have as much a personal connection to them. I did end up really enjoying Terry and Kazuya so that’s not a requirement.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Same here. I think Toadette and Captain Toad would be alts for normal Toad. I’m a bit surprised Pikachu didn’t get a detective alt. It could also easily get the captain’s hat from the Horizons anime as another alt and a couple more of those alts from ORAS. I particularly liked the rocker outfit.

Oh yeah they totally need to do Horizons Pikachu as an alt for Pikachu in smash in the future.

If Cloud can get his anime only alts this is fair game.

 

[Louie G.]

I suppose. But it's not as though anything has pushed Waluigi to the forefront during that time. Anything Waluigi has been in has also had Toad. And Toad still has his own game, and appeared prominently in the Mario Movie.

At a certain point Toad's inarguable importance within the Mario universe is not the problem. Smash 4 was the first game where Waluigi was a suggestion that could be taken remotely seriously, but Toad has been a viable option since Melee and arguably every point in his favor outside of the Mario Movie has been true for two decades (before Captain Toad, there was Wario's Woods). And he's got snubbed in favor of three other characters since. So has Waluigi, but that one is more understandable up til now. His support has also grown exponentially between titles while Toad's has stayed consistently modest.

Maybe Captain Toad was especially inspirational for Sakurai, maybe his more proactive role in Peach's kit is a good omen of the narrative around Toad shifting and acknowledging his agency as a character. But it's hard not to believe there's something deeper going on here regarding the team's lack of interest and I'm unsure if there's enough incentive to force a reconsideration, given how many other potential Mario characters they have at their disposal. I like Toad and I think he's long overdue but I hope it's understood why I can't be too confident in him.

The only advantage Waluigi has over Toad is the Smash community's insistence on him.

We can very easily reframe this to say "the only advantage K. Rool has over Dixie Kong is the Smash community's insistence on him". It worked out for him in the end. I think it'd be silly to dismiss this like it's a nonfactor when it's very apparently been a strong force for at least a handful of characters every game, and it's not as if Waluigi is an especially dormant or obscure character either.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I mean I will say the next Mario Character will most likely be Geno and y’all are lying to yourselves if you’re thinking Waluigi or Toad are getting in first after Mario RPG’s Remake.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t think it’s out of the question to get both Toad and Waluigi in the next Smash. Smash 64 gave us Mario, Luigi, and Yoshi (and DK if you want to count him), Melee gave us Peach, Bowser, and Dr. Mario, Smash 4 gave us Bowser Jr. and Rosalina, and Ultimate gave us Daisy and Piranha Plant. Geno is also a possibility and we have gotten three Mario characters in the past.

 

[Sucumbio]

Here's my Top 30:

1. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
2. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
3. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
4. Kunio/Riki [River City]
5. SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug]
6. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]
7. Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
8. Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
9. Nightmare [Soulcalibur]
10. Kazuma Kiryu [Yakuza]
11. Nakoruru [Samurai Shodown]
12. Dante [Devil May Cry]
13. Phoenix Wright [Ace Attorney]
14. Viewtiful Joe [Viewtiful Joe]
15. Amaterasu [Okami]
16. Strider Hiryu [Strider]
17. Goemon/Ebisumaru [Legend of the Mystical Ninja]
18. Crono [Chrono Trigger]
19. Nathan Spencer [Bionic Commando]
20. Rash/Zitz [Battletoads]
21. Bomberman [Bomberman]
22. Estelle Bright [Legend of Heroes]
23. Shantae [Shantae]
24. Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
25. King Hippo [Punch-Out]
26. Firebrand [Gargoyle’s Quest]
27. Zero [Mega Man X]
28. Alucard [Castlevania]
29. Raiden [Metal Gear]
30. Mii Mage

Waaaait a minute didn't you want Albert Wesker!?

Edit

I mean I will say the next Mario Character will most likely be Geno and y’all are lying to yourselves if you’re thinking Waluigi or Toad are getting in first after Mario RPG’s Remake.

Well my personal prediction is Geno will be DLC, 1st DLC at that. Thus Toad and Waluigi can be base(d)

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The real dark horse in the Toad Vs. discussion is the Switch era surge in notability Toadette has made.

 

[fogbadge]

The real dark horse in the Toad Vs. discussion is the Switch era surge in notability Toadette has made.

which is why many of us suggest an echo situation

 

[Gengar84]

which is why many of us suggest an echo situation

As far as I’m aware, Toadette and Toad don’t really have any meaningful gameplay differences (besides the whole Peachette thing). I feel like they could work as alts unless you really wanted to incorporate Peachette.

I’m a related note, the Bowsette name never made any sense to me. The “ette” part came from Toadette and the fan character was a Peach/Bowser fusion. Something like “Peachser” or “Boweach” would have made a lot more sense personally.

 

[Louie G.]

I mean I will say the next Mario Character will most likely be Geno and y’all are lying to yourselves if you’re thinking Waluigi or Toad are getting in first after Mario RPG’s Remake.

I think Geno has a fair shot, but no I don't think anyone is lying to themselves. He's still a Square Enix character, so his odds of being on the base roster as opposed to DLC are already on the lesser end. It's generally safer to back characters more synonymous with the Mario brand as well, seeing how Mario continuing to get new characters every game is in no small part because of how universally loved and recognized they are.

And the Mario RPG remake does a lot for him, but Waluigi and Toad have been appearing in games frequently throughout the Switch's lifespan. One release probably isn't the be all end all. I think if Geno gets in, it would be alongside at least one of these characters and not "over" them.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Gonna be honest, I think a lot of people don't have that much faith in Smash to deliver good new modes/single player options? I feel like a lot of people imply that whatever Smash does that isn't characters is just not gonna be worth it, and I... kinda understand that, if only because the chances of the roster being small enough to do something Subspace-like really isn't gonna happen. As for modes... well, actually i'd play the next smash a lot if they refined Smash Run or tried something experimental.

It's not a dealbreaker, but I kinda expect the next Smash singleplayer mode to still feel as hands-off as Ultimate's, as well as the character interactions in general. I

The thing is when it comes to Single-Player when comes to a game like Smash is that there will be a sort of compromised embedded being that it will be derivative of something or somewhat limit. This has been shown throughout the 3 times it made an appearance.

Melee's Adventure Mode was basically Classic Mode with Boss Battles and bit of stages thrown in

Brawl's Adventure Mode was essentially the same as Melee whilst ambitious couldn't utilize every character with some being let out like Wolf, Jigglypuff, Toon Link or included very in the game like Sonic. This gets much more difficult as later entries increase. Also Characters themselves had to be nerfed just to fit the style of platfoming making the level design very watered down.

Ult's Adventure Mode is more self-explanatory as it has to corporates aspects of all its modes to make up the experience.

Smash Bros at the end of the day is mainly multiplayer experience and the aspects around it so time and resources will be single-player will always be on the side as default.

Also Single-Player doesn't sounds as marketable or exicting as Characters Inclusions or even stages unfortunately.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I mean I will say the next Mario Character will most likely be Geno and y’all are lying to yourselves if you’re thinking Waluigi or Toad are getting in first after Mario RPG’s Remake.

This, tbh. They have a trend of annoucing a new Smash game along with a character the most dedicated part of the fanbase has been begging for for ages. Megaman in 4, Ridley in Ultimate. Geno is the perfect follow-up to those characters.

On the topic of Ultimate sacrificing content (or quality) in order to do Everyone is Here, I think I don't agree.
The fighters are higher quality than ever, there's over 100 stages and a ton of modes. The amount of newcomers is the same Smash more or less always gets, around 12 - it's just that half of these already appeared in older Smash games this time.
Single player is a massive improvement over Smash for Wii U - like, night and day, and personally it's my favorite single player in the series overall, though your mileage may vary.

What's lost is trophies which, honestly... whatever. They were cool in Melee but they got less and less cool with every subsequent installment.
And the big one, an Adventure Mode, which was already unfeasible by the time of Smash 4 anyways. But I believe this is what people mean, Adventure Mode is easily the one feature that people actually miss the most imo.

 

[JOJONumber691]

My response is simple. As much as I hate using the term “Sakurai Bias”, Sakurai has straight up admitted he wants Geno in the game because his Gun Arm would be cool and unique, which is why Geno got a Mii Costume in the first place. And since Geno probably scored highly on the Ballot, to the extent he got a Spirit in Base Ultimate and his Mii Costume returned, there’s no way Sakurai doesn’t know that Geno is highly requested. Only issue is Square, which before I will have stated that it killed his chances, but then Mario RPG got a Remake. This signifies to me that Square is willing to play ball with the Mario RPG Cast, which given Fans and Sakurai himself want Geno in, makes me think that Geno is extremely likely for the next Smash. Especially since he is also Relevant and Nintendo would likely want to represent the Mario RPG Remake since it would be a good marketing move. Overall Geno is very likely next time, and I am fully convinced he’s probably getting in before Toad or Waluigi. Though knowing Sakurai a Goomba could get in instead lol.

 

[Gengar84]

My response is simple. As much as I hate using the term “Sakurai Bias”, Sakurai has straight up admitted he wants Geno in the game because his Gun Arm would be cool and unique, which is why Geno got a Mii Costume in the first place. And since Geno probably scored highly on the Ballot, to the extent he got a Spirit in Base Ultimate and his Mii Costume returned, there’s no way Sakurai doesn’t know that Geno is highly requested. Only issue is Square, which before I will have stated that it killed his chances, but then Mario RPG got a Remake. This signifies to me that Square is willing to play ball with the Mario RPG Cast, which given Fans and Sakurai himself want Geno in, makes me think that Geno is extremely likely for the next Smash. Especially since he is also Relevant and Nintendo would likely want to represent the Mario RPG Remake since it would be a good marketing move. Overall Geno is very likely next time, and I am fully convinced he’s probably getting in before Toad or Waluigi. Though knowing Sakurai a Goomba could get in instead lol.

Hey, I’m all for Goomba. A basic Goomba enemy or Goombella from TTYD are actually my most wanted Mario characters.

 

[Louie G.]

The motivation for adding Geno is decidedly different than Waluigi or Toad. Geno is an insular demand tailored to Smash fans directly and those more tapped into Mario's greater history. Waluigi and Toad are characters who your cousin who only plays Mario Kart will recognize. In this way adding Geno isn't really at the expense of or in any real competition with another Mario character, he's standing as his own entity.

Every Smash will introduce a few characters who casual players will recognize, and unlike the other Mario characters Geno is not that. That doesn't mean he's any more or less likely to get in but it means comparing him to the likes of Waluigi or Toad is just kind of irrelevant to what would actually motivate them to add him. And I doubt it's a matter of Square Enix not playing ball, it's just that they like to hold off on content until DLC to maximize profit and we're definitely going to see at least one Mario character on the base roster.

Plus I suspect they would prioritize keeping Cloud around over Geno, if it had to come down to one SE on base roster and one as DLC (if the way things went down in Ultimate are anything to go by). Newcomers are going to be more exciting DLC anyway, and he's a great candidate.

 

[dream1ng]

I suppose. But it's not as though anything has pushed Waluigi to the forefront during that time. Anything Waluigi has been in has also had Toad. And Toad still has his own game, and appeared prominently in the Mario Movie.

The only advantage Waluigi has over Toad is the Smash community's insistence on him.

His popularity has. Waluigi is not popular solely among the Smash community like Geno, he's a generally quite popular character.

And yeah, Toad should've gotten in a while ago. If we were going in order he should've been in before Rosalina and Bowser Jr. But it seems like he's been detoured around ostensibly due to Sakurai finding him more of a non-combatant. It's possible that changes, but at this point that outcome does not seem as likely as the continued inclusion of other Mario characters.

I mean I will say the next Mario Character will most likely be Geno and y’all are lying to yourselves if you’re thinking Waluigi or Toad are getting in first after Mario RPG’s Remake.

Geno as a character requires Nintendo and Square to opt for a much much smaller character than what they have to offer, which will cast a much much smaller net, and probably yield a smaller total return. He's very popular among a very small total portion of the Smash audience, and he does definitely have a better shot now than before, but the reason he has yet to be included, because there are just much bigger names out there among a category they have to be fairly selective over, is still entirely true, and is still a factor.

The online fanbase behind Geno is palpable, but the business behind him is a very mixed bag. So no, you're not lying to yourself if you do not find him the likeliest Mario addition.

Plus Geno would probably be DLC, not base (he's not just third-party, he's Square), so if a Mario newcomer got in base, then just by virtue of that Geno would not get in first.

My response is simple. As much as I hate using the term “Sakurai Bias”, Sakurai has straight up admitted he wants Geno in the game because his Gun Arm would be cool and unique, which is why Geno got a Mii Costume in the first place. And since Geno probably scored highly on the Ballot, to the extent he got a Spirit in Base Ultimate and his Mii Costume returned, there’s no way Sakurai doesn’t know that Geno is highly requested. Only issue is Square, which before I will have stated that it killed his chances, but then Mario RPG got a Remake. This signifies to me that Square is willing to play ball with the Mario RPG Cast, which given Fans and Sakurai himself want Geno in, makes me think that Geno is extremely likely for the next Smash. Especially since he is also Relevant and Nintendo would likely want to represent the Mario RPG Remake since it would be a good marketing move. Overall Geno is very likely next time, and I am fully convinced he’s probably getting in before Toad or Waluigi. Though knowing Sakurai a Goomba could get in instead lol.

Yeah Sakurai said he wanted Geno in the game and then we got Cloud, Hero and Sephiroth.

I don’t think it’s out of the question to get both Toad and Waluigi in the next Smash. Smash 64 gave us Mario, Luigi, and Yoshi (and DK if you want to count him), Melee gave us Peach, Bowser, and Dr. Mario, Smash 4 gave us Bowser Jr. and Rosalina, and Ultimate gave us Daisy and Piranha Plant. Geno is also a possibility and we have gotten three Mario characters in the past.

Personally I think Waluigi and Geno is likelier than Waluigi and Toad. I think the distance that would come with Waluigi being base and Geno likely being DLC would help each stand further away from the influence of the other.

Plus I just am not convinced Sakurai is going to come around on Toad until I actually see it.

 

[Gengar84]

His popularity has. Waluigi is not popular solely among the Smash community like Geno, he's a generally quite popular character.

And yeah, Toad should've gotten in a while ago. If we were going in order he should've been in before Rosalina and Bowser Jr. But it seems like he's been detoured around ostensibly due to Sakurai finding him more of a non-combatant. It's possible that changes, but at this point that outcome does not seem as likely as the continued inclusion of other Mario characters.


Geno as a character requires Nintendo and Square to opt for a much much smaller character than what they have to offer, which will cast a much much smaller net, and probably yield a smaller total return. He's very popular among a very small total portion of the Smash audience, and he does definitely have a better shot now than before, but the reason he has yet to be included, because there are just much bigger names out there among a category they have to be fairly selective over, is still entirely true, and is still a factor.

The online fanbase behind Geno is palpable, but the business behind him is a very mixed bag. So no, you're not lying to yourself if you do not find him the likeliest Mario addition.

Plus Geno would probably be DLC, not base (he's not just third-party, he's Square), so if a Mario newcomer got in base, then just by virtue of that Geno would not get in first.


Yeah Sakurai said he wanted Geno in the game and then we got Cloud, Hero and Sephiroth.


Personally I think Waluigi and Geno is likelier than Waluigi and Toad. I think the distance that would come with Waluigi being base and Geno likely being DLC would help each stand further away from the influence of the other.

Plus I just am not convinced Sakurai is going to come around on Toad until I actually see it.

Yeah, I could see that as well. Thats probably actually the most likely outcome now that I think about it. I feel like all three have very valid reasons to be chosen so we’ll see if we get any or all of them. My biggest personal hangup with Geno is I feel he is competing with one of my most wanted characters in Magus. Since Magus probably isn’t happening regardless, it’s a bit of a non-issue. I was also a fan of Super Mario RPG so I’ll take Geno.

 

[Ivander]

If Cloud can get his anime only alts this is fair game.

looks at Kingdom Hearts 2, Dissidia Final Fantasy and FFVII:Dirge of Cerberus

I mean, even Ash-Greninja didn't appear in Smash until After it appeared in Pokemon Sun and Moon.

 

[Louie G.]

Yeah, I could see that as well. Thats probably actually the most likely outcome now that I think about it. I feel like all three have very valid reasons to be chosen so we’ll see if we get any or all of them. My biggest personal hangup with Geno is I feel he is competing with one of my most wanted characters in Magus. Since Magus probably isn’t happening regardless, it’s a bit of a non-issue. I was also a fan of Super Mario RPG so I’ll take Geno.

Square Enix got very preferential treatment during DLC, even if you don't count Sora, so the opportunity to see more than one SE character added over the course of another two waves isn't especially unlikely.

Although with the new component of some characters being cut and returning as DLC, maybe one of those slots would go to Hero or Sephiroth again. I guess we don't know how they're gonna choose to handle that, but in any case I don't think one completely eclipses the other.

 

[HyperSomari64]

If Cloud can get his anime only alts this is fair game.

Can't wait to see Bluster Kong, Oogtar, Big Bertha, and Grounder and Scratch as collectables for the next Smash.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I just want a new Mario & Luigi game.

On a related note, there's an idea I had recently that I thought would be really cool for implementing the Mario Bros into a platform fighter that isn't Smash.

Say Playstation (or whoever else) takes another crack at All-Stars Battle Royale or a similar game along those lines. If that game had guest fighters, I'd love to see Mario and Luigi as one. Not Mario and Luigi as separate characters with their Smash moves, but a single Mario & Luigi character where they count as one fighter and work together to use the zany and unique combo moves from the Mario & Luigi series. I think it would be a really cool way of distinguishing Mario if he were to officially appear as a guest character in another platform fighter, as well as tap into a fan-favorite interpretation of the characters that Smash doesn't really acknowledge.

Just the thought of using Bros. attacks in a fighting game makes me want this more than some entire characters that could be added to Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

As far as I’m aware, Toadette and Toad don’t really have any meaningful gameplay differences (besides the whole Peachette thing). I feel like they could work as alts unless you really wanted to incorporate Peachette.

why waste a character on an alt? hasn't enough character been resigned to that fate?

 

[Gengar84]

why waste a character on an alt? hasn't enough character been resigned to that fate?

If they play the same, does it really matter whether they’re an echo or an alt? The only real difference is the placement on the select screen. Some echoes like Ken are pretty different but others like Daisy are practically the same with a few different taunts. Cloud’s alt has a different Final Smash so I feel like taunts are also fair game.

For example, the Battletoads could easily be semiclones since they have all had their own unique abilities in multiple games but there are others where they play identically. Ideally, I’d love all three to be unique but it would be a miracle to even get one of them. Since they can also work fine as alts, I’ll take that. Others like Bill Rizer and Lance Bean always play identically so alts are fine in that case as well. I feel like the same applies to Toadette. I don’t see her getting in otherwise personally but I can always be wrong.

 

[dream1ng]

why waste a character on an alt? hasn't enough character been resigned to that fate?

Because there are limited spots for characters and adding an original character costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and months of development, so if there are two very similar characters they're probably only going to go with one of them and use those resources for the second on someone completely different while making that second character an alt or echo so they're at least still there in some capacity because at that point it was that or nothing.

 

[JOJONumber691]

His popularity has. Waluigi is not popular solely among the Smash community like Geno, he's a generally quite popular character.

And yeah, Toad should've gotten in a while ago. If we were going in order he should've been in before Rosalina and Bowser Jr. But it seems like he's been detoured around ostensibly due to Sakurai finding him more of a non-combatant. It's possible that changes, but at this point that outcome does not seem as likely as the continued inclusion of other Mario characters.


Geno as a character requires Nintendo and Square to opt for a much much smaller character than what they have to offer, which will cast a much much smaller net, and probably yield a smaller total return. He's very popular among a very small total portion of the Smash audience, and he does definitely have a better shot now than before, but the reason he has yet to be included, because there are just much bigger names out there among a category they have to be fairly selective over, is still entirely true, and is still a factor.

The online fanbase behind Geno is palpable, but the business behind him is a very mixed bag. So no, you're not lying to yourself if you do not find him the likeliest Mario addition.

Plus Geno would probably be DLC, not base (he's not just third-party, he's Square), so if a Mario newcomer got in base, then just by virtue of that Geno would not get in first.


Yeah Sakurai said he wanted Geno in the game and then we got Cloud, Hero and Sephiroth.


Personally I think Waluigi and Geno is likelier than Waluigi and Toad. I think the distance that would come with Waluigi being base and Geno likely being DLC would help each stand further away from the influence of the other.

Plus I just am not convinced Sakurai is going to come around on Toad until I actually see it.

Well I don’t see him coming around to Waluigi either when people on Twitter harassed him with Offensive Memes after he was made an Assist Trophy for the third time. Also keep in mind that it’s now or never for Geno and those three have already gotten in. And they got in before the Remake. I’m not suggesting Geno for DLC because that’s dumb, but Base Game? Yeah both parties opting in for Base Game Geno feels likely when Sakurai, Fans, and likely corporate after the Remake, would want him in. And this is coming from me. I used to be the Number 1 Geno Hater and would taunt his fans because I thought he would never happen. But since Mario RPG got a Remake somehow, I do genuinely see Geno getting in, which is shocking.

 

[fogbadge]

If they play the same, does it really matter whether they’re an echo or an alt? The only real difference is the placement on the select screen. Some echoes like Ken are pretty different but others like Daisy are practically the same with a few different taunts. Cloud’s alt has a different Final Smash so I feel like taunts are also fair game.

with the way it’s been done so far it really doesn’t seem like any of the alt characters are really playable. alph having the wrong ship and it feeling like you’re playing the clown car jr and the driver is a decoration. little things perhaps but still bugs me

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well I don’t see him coming around to Waluigi either when people on Twitter harassed him with Offensive Memes after he was made an Assist Trophy for the third time. Also keep in mind that it’s now or never for Geno and those three have already gotten in. And they got in before the Remake. I’m not suggesting Geno for DLC because that’s dumb, but Base Game? Yeah both parties opting in for Base Game Geno feels likely when Sakurai, Fans, and likely corporate after the Remake, would want him in. And this is coming from me. I used to be the Number 1 Geno Hater and would taunt his fans because I thought he would never happen. But since Mario RPG got a Remake somehow, I do genuinely see Geno getting in, which is shocking.

Waluigi fans were not the only fans who harassed Sakurai.

We have to stop using that excuse for JUST him. Fans of all sorts have done terrible things. Including fans of characters who were included.

 

[Louie G.]

Well I don’t see him coming around to Waluigi either when people on Twitter harassed him with Offensive Memes after he was made an Assist Trophy for the third time.

Sakurai isn't as petty as the fanbase is to shut down a character because of a few bad eggs. Take a look back in the Smash 4 Ridley thread post-release and you'll see that popular characters always had their vapid, toxic supporters. But unless they're sending a bomb to Sakurai's house it's mostly a nonfactor.

 

[Gengar84]

with the way it’s been done so far it really doesn’t seem like any of the alt characters are really playable. alph having the wrong ship and it feeling like you’re playing the clown car jr and the driver is a decoration. little things perhaps but still bugs me

Yeah I hear you. I’d personally rather have all fully unique characters too but I understand that resources are limited and some characters probably never would have made it in otherwise. I’ve always really liked the Koopa kids and never cared much for Bowser Jr. so I was very happy to be able to play as them in some form. Sure, eight unique characters or clones would have been cooler but that would both take up tons of development time and clutter the select screen with all seven Koopa kids. Same goes for Hero.