Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

I want Hammerin Harry as an Ice Climbers echo fighter. Irem deserves representation

I think I have to go "literally who?" here.

Who is Hammerin Harry?

 

[HyperSomari64]

I think I have to go "literally who?" here.

Who is Hammerin Harry?

An Early 90s Arcade by Irem where you attack with a hammer to save your house and family. He has a catchphrase: "Let's Get Busy!"
There are sequels for the Game Boy and some sort of time skip game for the PSP. Sorry, my memories are fuzzy sometimes.

 

[Speed Weed]

I think I have to go "literally who?" here.

Who is Hammerin Harry?

Hammerin' Harry was an old arcade platformer by Irem that started a series. He was kind of one of the closest things Irem had to a mascot

Personally I love Irem and would really like to see them repped in Smash somehow but I think their best shot at getting something is R-Type and that one doesn't really fit a playable spot very well, so......no playable rep for Irem most likely. When it comes to characters from them though, my personal preference would be Rosa from Undercover Cops, I have a big soft spot for that game

 

[HyperSomari64]

Hammerin' Harry was an old arcade platformer by Irem that started a series. He was kind of one of the closest things Irem had to a mascot

Weirdly enough, Wikipedia says Rocky Rodent was their mascot, despite being in just one game. But in the same page it says Yumi is Marvelous' mascot, so that's another reason to not trust it .
I want Rocky Rodent for the NSO.

 

[Ivander]

An Early 90s Arcade by Irem where you attack with a hammer to save your house and family. He has a catchphrase: "Let's Get Busy!"
There are sequels for the Game Boy and some sort of time skip game for the PSP. Sorry, my memories are fuzzy sometimes.

Oh, I remember seeing an ad for the PSP game and I had recently watched a video showcasing a whole bunch of old games and one of them was either the Arcade or SNES version of it.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Were Irem the guys who did Steambot Chronicles? Or am I thinking of a different company?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Were Irem the guys who did Steambot Chronicles? Or am I thinking of a different company?

Yep, the one and only

 

[Perkilator]

I know Irem were the guys who did DinoCity on the SNES; you know, the one JonTron did a video of?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I know Irem were the guys who did DinoCity on the SNES; you know, the one JonTron did a video of?

"Cause baby you're a firework!"

 

[Ivander]

Masahiro Sakurai: Come in.

Intelligent Systems: Hey, we've made the preparations and list for which Fire Emblem character you would like to look at and pick for Smash Bros.

Masahiro Sakurai: I'm 10 steps ahead of you and already chose the Fire Emblem character for Smash Bros.

Spoiler: The Fire Emblem character chosen for Smash Bros.

Man, I love Fire Emblem Heroes. I honestly hope they go this frickin' crazy with one of their new Fire Emblem games someday.

And probably not too surprising, I was reminded of Dharkon from this design.

 

[Metal Shop X]

You know who they should add next Smash?

Demoman from TF2.

Unique moveset possibility with his sticky and bombs, plus Demoknight if you're crazy enough, well-know in the west, first FPS rep for Smash and last but not least, a black character that ain't Ganondorf!

Of course most go Heavy if we're talking TF2, but still, he be a great choice imo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Been saying it since the pre Smash 4 days, Anthony Higgs would be the PERFECT candidate for a literally "token black guy" character in Smash that isn't entirely forced. He was the best thing about Other M.

Shamefully nobody nowadays remembers him.

It also doesn't help we got 4 Metroid characters already of course.

Also Fire Emblem Engage had Timerra as a sort of main character in a way. Which makes the prospect of an actual main Fire Emblem Lord who's black a little more likely in the future? I'd personally love it if they'd base a Fire Emblem game around the war between Ethiopia and Italy for example.

 

[fogbadge]

I always find myself wondering what method people use to judge who deserves to be in smash

 

[Perkilator]

I always find myself wondering what method people use to judge who deserves to be in smash

It usually varies (both for better and for worse) but for me, if I think the character is cool and feels like a natural fit for Smash, then I make a moveset for them, simple as that.

 

[Sucumbio]

Also Fire Emblem Engage had Timerra as a sort of main character in a way. Which makes the prospect of an actual main Fire Emblem Lord who's black a little more likely in the future? I'd personally love it if they'd base a Fire Emblem game around the war between Ethiopia and Italy for example.

I always assumed Claude was mixed.

 

[osby]

I always assumed Claude was mixed.

I mean, you're not wrong.

Spoiler: Three Houses spoilers

He's half Almyran, half Fódlanese.

I don't know how useful it is to assign fantasy countries real-worl counterparts but his character has heavy Iran motifs/references and his real name is Arabic. Take it however you will.

 

[FazDude]

Been saying it since the pre Smash 4 days, Anthony Higgs would be the PERFECT candidate for a literally "token black guy" character in Smash that isn't entirely forced. He was the best thing about Other M.

Shamefully nobody nowadays remembers him.

Apparently not.

I think Higgs would be a cool addition, though.

As long as we're talking about POC candidates, Mr. Sandman from Punch-Out would be really cool.

 

[Perkilator]

As long as we're talking about POC candidates, Mr. Sandman from Punch-Out would be really cool.

Same with Doc Louis, tbh.

 

[Mamboo07]

Been saying it since the pre Smash 4 days, Anthony Higgs would be the PERFECT candidate for a literally "token black guy" character in Smash that isn't entirely forced.

He was the best thing about Other M.

Too bad that said game was disliked by fans, mostly due to Samus's characterization.

But it's a good okay game.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I always find myself wondering what method people use to judge who deserves to be in smash

I always think of it from the mindset of "This would be fun" and "This comes from a long running series"

 

[Sucumbio]

I always find myself wondering what method people use to judge who deserves to be in smash

Truthfully? I can't speak to everyone, but in general it seems there's two tiers of people.

1. I care about the roster
2. I do not care about the roster.

If you care who is in the roster, it's based on a ratio of personal likes and the rest.

For instance, I "liked" about 8 characters in Brawl, but used everyone at least once. In 4 I liked even fewer and didn't use everyone. In Ultimate, I like dozens and still haven't tried everyone but WANT to, a huge difference. But at NO point did I ever think" such n such character does not deserve to be in the game. Because that isn't a connection I make. All designers have the right to include or omit whomever they want and it is I who either approves or disapproves by purchasing the title. This also entitles me to criticize the title, which let's not forget there's still plenty to improve.

To the point of criteria, if one were to look at a roster and say here's who 'should' be in the game, again this must be based on the developer's words and past roster decisions to create a predictive model.

So, one would assume being a Nintendo character is of importance, or a popular 3rd party. Some may consider legacy of value. And then others may only care that the character is fun to use.

 

[Stratos]

Two things I like the most about the Super Smash Bros. series are the newcomers and the Adventure Mode. But in general I like the Super Smash Bros. series.

 

[FazDude]

I always find myself wondering what method people use to judge who deserves to be in smash

I've abandoned the "deserving" mentality in favor of "oh they'd be cool to have in the game"

 

[CannonStreak]

I've abandoned the "deserving" mentality in favor of "oh they'd be cool to have in the game"

Good choice, FazDude. While some characters are great and wanted, I hardly thought deserving was the right word for them. Being cool to have in the game are better words.

 

[fogbadge]

It usually varies (both for better and for worse) but for me, if I think the character is cool and feels like a natural fit for Smash, then I make a moveset for them, simple as that.

I always think of it from the mindset of "This would be fun" and "This comes from a long running series"

Truthfully? I can't speak to everyone, but in general it seems there's two tiers of people.

1. I care about the roster
2. I do not care about the roster.

If you care who is in the roster, it's based on a ratio of personal likes and the rest.

For instance, I "liked" about 8 characters in Brawl, but used everyone at least once. In 4 I liked even fewer and didn't use everyone. In Ultimate, I like dozens and still haven't tried everyone but WANT to, a huge difference. But at NO point did I ever think" such n such character does not deserve to be in the game. Because that isn't a connection I make. All designers have the right to include or omit whomever they want and it is I who either approves or disapproves by purchasing the title. This also entitles me to criticize the title, which let's not forget there's still plenty to improve.

To the point of criteria, if one were to look at a roster and say here's who 'should' be in the game, again this must be based on the developer's words and past roster decisions to create a predictive model.

So, one would assume being a Nintendo character is of importance, or a popular 3rd party. Some may consider legacy of value. And then others may only care that the character is fun to use.

I've abandoned the "deserving" mentality in favor of "oh they'd be cool to have in the game"

thanks all, those are some interesting perspectives

 

[chocolatejr9]

I've abandoned the "deserving" mentality in favor of "oh they'd be cool to have in the game"

Same, honestly. Like, I get the point of the "deserving" thing, but after awhile we sort of start to repeat ourselves and go around in circles. Let me talk about characters I WANT to talk about, dagnabbit! Extra points if I don't get talked down to in the process...

 

[DarthEnderX]

I always find myself wondering what method people use to judge who deserves to be in smash

Anything I'm nostalgic about.

 

[Gengar84]

Anything I'm nostalgic about.

That and characters I personally like, whether they’re old or from more recent games. Nostalgia definitely helps though.

 

[smashkirby]

Been saying it since the pre Smash 4 days, Anthony Higgs would be the PERFECT candidate for a literally "token black guy" character in Smash that isn't entirely forced. He was the best thing about Other M.

Shamefully nobody nowadays remembers him.

It also doesn't help we got 4 Metroid characters already of course.

Also Fire Emblem Engage had Timerra as a sort of main character in a way. Which makes the prospect of an actual main Fire Emblem Lord who's black a little more likely in the future? I'd personally love it if they'd base a Fire Emblem game around the war between Ethiopia and Italy for example.

Actually, I've been wondering about that myself. Like, is Anthony really a "joke pick"? Honestly, I never felt STRONGLY about him, but if he joined Smash, I certainly wouldn't have complained.

Is it just because he was in 'Other M' that no one considers him a viable option for an additional Metroid character?

 

[fogbadge]

Anything I'm nostalgic about.

well at least you’re honest

 

[DarthEnderX]

well at least you’re honest

It's not honesty, it's science. My nostalgia just happens to line up perfectly with Smash deservedness.

I'm the perfect age for things that I remember from gaming to be classic and foundational. And the fondness of my memories coincides directly with the overall iconic and enduring nature of a character.

 

[fogbadge]

It's not honesty, it's science. My nostalgia just happens to line up perfectly with Smash deservedness.

I'm the perfect age for things that I remember from gaming to be classic and foundational. And the fondness of my memories coincides directly with the overall iconic and enduring nature of a character.

sure

 

[Stratos]

After Galeem and Dharkon who could be the big threat in the Adventure Mode of the next Super Smash Bros.? Of course, no one can know that, but that doesn't stop us from imagining the next villain. For example I imagine him to be between the organic and mechanical, magic and science and also the light and the dark.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Most of the third party series i like are already in smash, from the ones that arent the only i actually think "Deserves" to be in smash is th Yakuza series, because it fits the mold of all the other third parties in smash, a popular series worldwide with a legacy behind it that has cool characters who would be cool to see fighting the Nintendo guys.

The other third parties i like are popular only in Japan and i can only see them getting into smash to give them a popularityboost in other coutries like they did with Terry.

 

[Speed Weed]

I always find myself wondering what method people use to judge who deserves to be in smash

Are they a SEGA character

Spoiler: Yes

They should be in

Spoiler: No

Are they a Capcom character

Spoiler: Yes

They should be in

Spoiler: No

Are they an old arcade game character

Spoiler: Yes

They should be in

Spoiler: No

**** off

 

[FazDude]

Are they a SEGA character

Spoiler: Yes

They should be in

Spoiler: No

Are they a Capcom character

Spoiler: Yes

They should be in

Spoiler: No

Are they an old arcade game character

Spoiler: Yes

They should be in

Spoiler: No

**** off

Here's my take:

Are they a fourth-party?

Spoiler: Yes

Spoiler: No

okay sure

...are they from a platformer/indie game?

Spoiler: Yes

HELL YEAH

Spoiler: No

That's cool

 

[Perkilator]

Here's my take:

Are they a fourth-party?

Spoiler: Yes

Spoiler: No

okay sure

...are they from a platformer/indie game?

Spoiler: Yes

HELL YEAH

Spoiler: No

That's cool

Ooh, lemme try?

Are they from a video game first?

Spoiler: Yes

Would they be a natural fit as a playable character?

Spoiler: Yes

Good!

Spoiler: No

Then nothing wrong with that.

Spoiler: No

 

[SPEN18]

I always find myself wondering what method people use to judge who deserves to be in smash

Obviously there's no formulaic or definitive way to go about it, and my thoughts on certain characters are constantly evolving, but here's what I generally look at (in no particular order):

Popularity. Within their franchise's fandom, the Smash fandom, and/or the general Nintendo fandom. It's also important to consider both the hardcore and casual demographics.

Performances of the the games they appear in. The most readily quantifiable measure is sales, though sales are not everything and there is a lot of nuance to consider. Particularly the context behind sales is important, for example how the game did relative to others on the same console or within the same franchise, or if there were any other significant factors that influenced the numbers.
While the methods of quantification are shakier than sales, I also consider critical and fan reception to games as a part of evaluating their legacy and importance. In addition to that, I also value games with a particularly strong impact on the industry, or that were defining moments for their franchises.

Role importance within the games they appear in and importance within their franchise as a whole. For an (extreme) example, being the primary protagonist in a particular game is worth way more than being a one-liner NPC in that same game. It's inevitable but also sensible that characters will be measured up against other options from the same franchise. Though "important within their franchise" also has to be adapted to how that franchise handles its cast.

The importance/size of the franchise itself. It makes sense to have a lot of characters from Mario, for example, but I don't think we need like five reps from Ice Climber. This also bleeds into the "performances of the games they appear in." Size of the franchise mostly has to do with the previously listed barometers of performance like sales, reception, popularity, number of games, and history of impact.

Prevalence in marketing and merchandise. This can also be an indicator that Nintendo values that particular character, or an indicator that they are popular and recognized by fans. Though sometimes it can be difficult to measure or compare between characters.

Other intangibles. Sometimes games and characters have a certain significance that is difficult to quantify or fit into one of the categories above. Basically, the above items are not the only ones that can constitute merit, though most characters with a lot of merit will be strong in many of those aspects.

And of course, being weak in one area is not a disqualifier, and can potentially be made up for by being strong in other areas. Different characters get in for different reasons.

Besides all of this, there are also the practical matters of giving the character a workable, fun, and unique moveset. Though I don't view the moveset as something that makes them deserving or not. Having issues being made to work from a practical/gameplay perspective doesn't make them undeserving; it's just an unfortunate occurrence when an otherwise awesome character can't make it for one reason or another. Though as we saw with Ridley and Villager, sometimes overwhelming merit can force them to search for a solution for a character that was previously deemed unworkable.

 

[Jave]

For me it's a mix of various things.

I don't like using the concept of "Who deserves" too much because it takes away the concept of personal choices, and that maybe a character got added simply because "Some higher up insisted on this" or "Sakurai really likes this character". There's definitely merit on claiming someone deserves to be in; IMO the Zelda series definitely deserves to have a character who isn't Link/Zelda/Ganondorf, but having to choose who is another matter. The character could be anyone and boil down to whoever Sakurai thinks is cooler or better fitting. Look no further than Min Min who was chosen by the ARMS director, but had Sakurai chosen the rep himself we could have gotten Ninjara instead.

I also think being realistic on your wants is important. Some of my favorite Fire Emblem characters are supporting characters, but I'm enough of a realist to accept that any FE character that isn't a Lord will never be in Smash (and maybe Anna since she has Mascot status). I support Alear in Smash even though they're not my favorite FE Engage character, because if FE Engage gets a rep, realistically it will be them. I also apply this to characters that are deconfirmed through ATs. I have mad respects for the people who stick with their choices to the very end, but after a character has been revealed as an AT I can't hold any hope.

Popularity and Recency are also important. Series that have been inactive for over a decade will probably not get repped. It's not impossible, but it's definitely something quite low on the priority list. I would love to see Marina Liteyears in Smash, but realistically speaking I can't imagine her actually happening due to her one game still being locked to the N64, UNLESS Nintendo picks up the series and pulls a Bayonetta with it. The Retro Rep (Mr. G&W, ROB, Duck Hunt) is the exception, and even then we didn't get one of those in Ultimate, unless you count Simon, which I don't think is on the same level.

And finally I pick characters I like from series I enjoy. I don't follow crowds and support characters I don't like or don't care for. However, I DO think it's important to respect people's choices and let them be regardless of who they support. My least favorite side of the Smash fanbase are the people who are constantly telling others "This character is never happening and here are a hundred reasons why." Like, who cares? Let them enjoy it. Some people just enjoy the thrill of the anticipation of whether your character happens or not. If it does, we celebrate. If it doesn't, we move on. In the end it's just a video game and it's never worth to lose sleep over it. (Which is why I'm done with some places when talking Smash. At least here on Smashboards I can stick to the character topics when the next game in the series is announced).

I think for how I choose my Smash reps is a bit of all that. If you look at the 100-character list I posted a few pages back I feel all the characters I listed have at least a realistic shot of being in and they're all characters I like from series I enjoy.

 

[Stratos]

The Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot was a way for us to vote on which characters we would like to see in Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U, but since there are so many video game characters it would be a bit difficult for Masahiro Sakurai and Nintendo to choose, so I think that's why they didn't continue Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot even though it looked so exciting.