Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Diddy Kong]

What's some characters you feel like are gonna get cut, but you REALLY don't want them to be?

My obvious answer:

It's gonna suck hard-core but since Fates is a thing of the past, and since so many people rag on him in and out of Smash, I can see Sakurai taking him out.

I did leave my thoughts on him here and why I got attached to the dragonkid

Fates is honestly the least influential game of the series in all Fire Emblem titles represented al far. Corrin also isn't as popular as the rest.

I do belief the triple release of versions of Fates helped influence Three Houses, but outside of that it's hardly an influence on the whole series. Marth is the first Lord so of course the mascot, sort of alongside Lucina and Chrom, and their game revived the series. Roy's game FE6 did the same in Japan. Ike is odd as his games sold extremely poor and almost even led to the cancelation of Fire Emblem, but his popularity wouldn't suggest that. Plus the games FE9 and FE10 where the first 3D titles, and sell for a small fortune nowadays. Byleth and Three Houses stand for themselves at this point.

As for characters whom I feel are gonna get cut? No idea, and the ones I feel likely to not be there next game I wouldn't miss too much anyways. But I sort of fear for Banjo.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Fates is honestly the least influential game of the series in all Fire Emblem titles represented al far. Corrin also isn't as popular as the rest.

I do belief the triple release of versions of Fates helped influence Three Houses, but outside of that it's hardly an influence on the whole series. Marth is the first Lord so of course the mascot, sort of alongside Lucina and Chrom, and their game revived the series. Roy's game FE6 did the same in Japan. Ike is odd as his games sold extremely poor and almost even led to the cancelation of Fire Emblem, but his popularity wouldn't suggest that. Plus the games FE9 and FE10 where the first 3D titles, and sell for a small fortune nowadays. Byleth and Three Houses stand for themselves at this point.

As for characters whom I feel are gonna get cut? No idea, and the ones I feel likely to not be there next game I wouldn't miss too much anyways. But I sort of fear for Banjo.

I honestly agree. Fates, for as much as I enjoy what it's brought, is decidedly less influential than all the other Fire Emblems represented as fighters in Smash. So as much as Corrin means to me, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes the way of Roy in Brawl. So I've been steeling myself for him potentially going away.

I just hope Byleth and Lucina stay, as far as FE goes

 

[Diddy Kong]

I honestly agree. Fates, for as much as I enjoy what it's brought, is decidedly less influential than all the other Fire Emblems represented as fighters in Smash. So as much as Corrin means to me, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes the way of Roy in Brawl. So I've been steeling myself for him potentially going away.

I just hope Byleth and Lucina stay, as far as FE goes

Byleth and Lucina are extremely safe. Lucina is a Fire Emblem poster girl almost at this point, and a easy Echo to Marth who will never leave. Byleth is still the most recent and has a moveset that represents a whole lot of the weapons missed in movesets of playable characters from FE (even if I'd like them to have a canin moveset). And as said before, Three Houses did phenomenal.

At this point I consider Lucina and Byleth are even more safe than the likes of Roy and Ike.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Byleth and Lucina are extremely safe. Lucina is a Fire Emblem poster girl almost at this point, and a easy Echo to Marth who will never leave. Byleth is still the most recent and has a moveset that represents a whole lot of the weapons missed in movesets of playable characters from FE (even if I'd like them to have a canin moveset). And as said before, Three Houses did phenomenal.

At this point I consider Lucina and Byleth are even more safe than the likes of Roy and Ike.

Saying "Phew" is putting it mildly. Lucina is awesome, and Byleth's moveset gels extremely well for me.

Though I'd say Ike is also pretty safe. He's one of the most popular FE characters ever. Sakurai cutting him would be PR suicide in the eyes of Fire Emblem fans.

At the end of the day, whoever stays and whoever gets cut, I hope the next new FE rep is a good one!

 

[SPEN18]

Ike is odd as his games sold extremely poor and almost even led to the cancelation of Fire Emblem, but his popularity wouldn't suggest that. Plus the games FE9 and FE10 where the first 3D titles, and sell for a small fortune nowadays.

It's pretty interesting to read, like, the old IGN review for FE:RD. They go so far out of their way throughout just to criticize the game for, well, basically not using any of the fancy Wii features like motion controls or online, and for only appealing to a "traditional, hardcore" crowd. It feels like such a short leap away from straight-up announcing, "who would dare make a game that controls with a D-pad nowadays?"

Yet, that same traditional combat/control system still works wonderfully today. The solidity of the mechanics was never an issue IMO, just figuring out how to market/present it to a more general audience and fluff it up with some modern quality-of-life features.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

I think Corrin's best hope for getting in the next Smash game is if Intelligent Systems decides to remake Fates for the Switch, since 3DS E-Shop going the way of the dinosaurs will make playing the Revelations path and the other DLC a hell of a lot harder. But that's a pipe dream for me

/not so subtle thread plug

 

[fogbadge]

hmm characters who you think will be cut who you don't want to be cut? that is a tricky one but i suppose young link and pichu. i think they only came back cause of everyone is here and will be gone as soon as it's over. shame really i rather like having them.

as for fe characters, well if sakurai really does think there's to many then you can kiss chrom goodbye. though there aren't really any fe characters i'm that bothered if they get cut

on a completely different topic: pokemon

Spoiler

the wooper reveal may mean that jigglypuff has a potential echo/alt

 

[Ivander]

Fates is honestly the least influential game of the series in all Fire Emblem titles represented al far.

I disagree. Not when Three Houses has alot of features that are either upgraded from or fixed certain criticisms from Fates.

• Garreg Mach Monastery is practically an upgraded version of the My Castle feature from Fates. You can talk with your allies. You have a couple areas where you can farm for materials like Fish and Plants and whatnot. You have a cooking place that can give your team temporary stats. The Lost Items are a different take on the Gift giving to your allies. Heck, Tea Time, the Chorus feature and the other Cooking feature are practically an upgrade and more SFW versions of the Treehouse's Face Petting feature(that was taken out of the ENG version, but it still allowed you to call allies and chat with them, letting the conversations stay).
• Three Houses once again followed the different paths much like Fates(and technically Sacred Stones, but everybody made a much bigger deal out of Fates' path choosing). The majority of characters can now be gotten in different paths rather than stay stuck to certain paths and there is no "Golden" route(inb4GoldenDeerjoke), which were criticisms towards the Revelations route in Fates when compared them to Birthright and Conquest.
• Lots of criticisms towards Fates are fixed in Three Houses. The sexuality and skimpy costumes were heavily toned down, you can't S-Support characters who are certainly under the age of 18, children characters are gone, Byleth is alot more player-controlled in dialogue compared to Corrin, the game world has alot more lore, backstory and world building, much of these being criticisms towards Fates. Heck, even all the Paths, aside from one, are now on one game cartridge rather than different cartridges. Now if only they didn't keep the one main character having only supports with the main character and not giving them any chance of character building.

Like Three Houses feels in a bunch of places another attempt at doing the whole Fates thing, except with alot of the feedback and criticisms taken to heart. And it certainly payed off with Three Houses being very successful and alot of good reception. If anything, Fates was an influence for Intelligent Systems in their choices and designs for Three Houses.
And who knows? Maybe it was a bigger influence to some people than we think, considering the Smash team really wanted Corrin to the point of convincing Sakurai to go through with them.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

considering the Smash team really wanted Corrin to the point of convincing Sakurai to go through with them.

Really? That's interesting. It gives me a little more hope for Corrin than before, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[fogbadge]

Really? That's interesting. It gives me a little more hope for Corrin than before, but I'm not holding my breath.

it's also worth remembering it was cause that's what they all happened to be playing at the time so they might have calmed down a bit since then

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Happy Birthday Mr. Sakurai!

 

[fogbadge]

Happy Birthday Mr. Sakurai!

is it on the 3rd? Or on the 4th and you’re counting it cause it probably is the 4th in Japan?

 

[Arcanir]

I disagree. Not when Three Houses has alot of features that are either upgraded from or fixed certain criticisms from Fates.

• Garreg Mach Monastery is practically an upgraded version of the My Castle feature from Fates. You can talk with your allies. You have a couple areas where you can farm for materials like Fish and Plants and whatnot. You have a cooking place that can give your team temporary stats. The Lost Items are a different take on the Gift giving to your allies. Heck, Tea Time, the Chorus feature and the other Cooking feature are practically an upgrade and more SFW versions of the Treehouse's Face Petting feature(that was taken out of the ENG version, but it still allowed you to call allies and chat with them, letting the conversations stay).
• Three Houses once again followed the different paths much like Fates(and technically Sacred Stones, but everybody made a much bigger deal out of Fates' path choosing). The majority of characters can now be gotten in different paths rather than stay stuck to certain paths and there is no "Golden" route(inb4GoldenDeerjoke), which were criticisms towards the Revelations route in Fates when compared them to Birthright and Conquest.
• Lots of criticisms towards Fates are fixed in Three Houses. The sexuality and skimpy costumes were heavily toned down, you can't S-Support characters who are certainly under the age of 18, children characters are gone, Byleth is alot more player-controlled in dialogue compared to Corrin, the game world has alot more lore, backstory and world building, much of these being criticisms towards Fates. Heck, even all the Paths, aside from one, are now on one game cartridge rather than different cartridges. Now if only they didn't keep the one main character having only supports with the main character and not giving them any chance of character building.

Like Three Houses feels in a bunch of places another attempt at doing the whole Fates thing, except with alot of the feedback and criticisms taken to heart. And it certainly payed off with Three Houses being very successful and alot of good reception. If anything, Fates was an influence for Intelligent Systems in their choices and designs for Three Houses.
And who knows? Maybe it was a bigger influence to some people than we think, considering the Smash team really wanted Corrin to the point of convincing Sakurai to go through with them.

I feel that's overstating its importance a bit. It is true that learning from mistakes is how better games can be made, but that doesn't necessarily make those games hugely influential in and of themselves and prop them up in higher standing. Other M could similarly be argued to be what led to a number of positive decisions with Returns and especially Dread, but I doubt many would be claiming it's influential for the series as a whole, especially not to the level of those like Super, the Primes, and now Dread.

But even playing to that point, that still doesn't put them in good standing among the other characters as was argued before. Marth's game is the first and the most successful before the 2010s, Chrom/Lucina/Robin's game bailed the franchise out of a slump, Byleth's game is the most successful game period, and Roy, alongside Marth's appearance in Melee not only got Japanese fans back in, but also helped garner interest in the series internationally. That at best only puts Corrin's influence above maybe Ike, and even then he could be argued to be more influential since his game was the first 3D game and some of the concepts like Beast units and transferable skills originated from his games. In the end the Corrin's are in a bit of a rough spot in that regard as if we're comparing them to other characters, their standing is weaker then their peers, even if we are to say it should be credited for the concepts that led TH to be successful.

 

[Ivander]

I feel that's overstating its importance a bit. It is true that learning from mistakes is how better games can be made, but that doesn't necessarily make those games hugely influential in and of themselves and prop them up in higher standing. Other M could similarly be argued to be what led to a number of positive decisions with Returns and especially Dread, but I doubt many would be claiming it's influential for the series as a whole, especially not to the level of those like Super, the Primes, and now Dread.

But even playing to that point, that still doesn't put them in good standing among the other characters as was argued before. Marth's game is the first and the most successful before the 2010s, Chrom/Lucina/Robin's game bailed the franchise out of a slump, Byleth's game is the most successful game period, and Roy, alongside Marth's appearance in Melee not only got Japanese fans back in, but also helped garner interest in the series internationally. That at best only puts Corrin's influence above maybe Ike, and even then he could be argued to be more influential since his game was the first 3D game and some of the concepts like Beast units and transferable skills originated from his games. In the end the Corrin's are in a bit of a rough spot in that regard as if we're comparing them to other characters, their standing is weaker then their peers, even if we are to say it should be credited for the concepts that led TH to be successful.

Well, I'm not claiming it's a series-wide influence, but I'd still say it's influential if the developers for Three Houses used it for a basis for both it's design, it's ideas and it's criticism and whatnot. Sometimes criticism can be the good kind of influence for developers and their next game. Although it really depends on what kind of criticism is being given, since criticism for the sake of criticism is not good criticism.

Also, funny how you post here just as I made a post in the Social tagging you.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

This discussion on Fates' relevance is kinda why I'd love to have a full remake on the Nintendo Switch. It could integrate some of Three Houses' features, add new DLC while integrating old sets, and have all three paths available right from the get-go. With the end of the 3DS E-Shop cutting off a LOT of the classic DLC as well as the ENTIRE Revelation path (BIG oof here) in the near future, there's no better time than now to rebirth the title for a new system.

But I'll leave most of this discussion to my own Fates thread

 

[Gengar84]

This discussion on Fates' relevance is kinda why I'd love to have a full remake on the Nintendo Switch. It could integrate some of Three Houses' features, add new DLC while integrating old sets, and have all three paths available right from the get-go. With the end of the 3DS E-Shop cutting off a LOT of the classic DLC as well as the ENTIRE Revelation path (BIG oof here) in the near future, there's no better time than now to rebirth the title for a new system.

But I'll leave most of this discussion to my own Fates thread

The main Fire Emblem games I’d love to see remade on modern consoles are Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. Those are still my favorite games in the series and seeing them updated with modern mechanics, support conversations, and full voice acting would be amazing. Ike’s reveal in Brawl is what got me to try Fire Emblem so it would be great to play through my first Fire Emblem game again.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

is it on the 3rd? Or on the 4th and you’re counting it cause it probably is the 4th in Japan?

It's on the 3rd (a quick search on Wikipedia), he also sent out a tweet thanking everyone for the Birthday wishes (as well as the Top Gun model he received as a present).

 

[SPEN18]

I think they should just go in order with the FE remakes, at least for now. Maybe that's a boring opinion, but the TH engine seems very well-suited for FE4 both aesthetically and mechanically, while FE4 itself, with its two-generation timeskip setup, seems highly meldable for modern FE. The heavier themes might also be easier to facelift now that modern FE has skewed a little more towards teen+ audiences.

Not that the other popular options don't have merit. PoR/RD have aged (and appreciated) enough now that jumping to a remake of those games is much more thinkable than it used to be. FE6 is in need of official translation, and while FE7 has aged amazingly IMO, its cast and themes I feel could transfer very well to the newer audiences (as a product of FE7's nature as a more novice-friendly game).

It's just that FE4 feels kinda right at this particular juncture, even though FE7 and RD are closer to my heart.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

All FE aside...yea I've steeled myself for Corrin potentially getting cut. But I REALLY hope Isabelle isn't getting cut as well. I love playing her so much. Hitting the side B makes me feel so powerful. Isabelle is my spirit animal and I feel quite the kinship with this dorky dog. She's the face of Animal Crossing right now so chances of her being cut aren't as high as Corrin...but I still have my doubts.

Estuans interius, ira vehementi,
Estuans interius, ira vehementi,
Fishing rod!

 

[SPEN18]

All FE aside...yea I've steeled myself for Corrin potentially getting cut. But I REALLY hope Isabelle isn't getting cut as well.

Isabelle is very safe. I have made blanket statements before about no clones being completely safe but she is a rare exception to that.

If anything, we are likely to simply see additions to the Animal Crossing roster next game. It's a sizeable series now that has moved into the upper tiers of Nintendo franchises.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Isabelle is very safe. I have made blanket statements before about no clones being completely safe but she is a rare exception to that.

If anything, we are likely to simply see additions to the Animal Crossing roster next game. It's a sizeable series now that has moved into the upper tiers of Nintendo franchises.

Phew...that's good to hear. Even if Corrin goes away, having Isabelle and potentially Byleth+Lucina as well makes it a lil better.

At the end of the day though, it really depends for me what the next Smash game even looks like. It's likely some big shifts will be made in exchange for potential cuts.

 

[smashkirby]

All things considered, I just hope Roy and Chrom aren't cut from the roster going forward. As someone who was disappointed with Roy's removal from Brawl and was a Chrom supporter leading up to Smash 4's release, I just don't think I could take it if either one of them was removed...

 

[Pink Yoshi]

In the past, I've kicked around the idea of Dawn from Pokemon getting revealed as a new fighter. She'd be a Pokemon Trainer-style opponent with Piplup, Quilava and Tsareena as her mons. But I kinda kicked that idea away cause it was a bit too close to the "anime/Goku" barrier.

 

[Quillion]

All things considered, I just hope Roy and Chrom aren't cut from the roster going forward. As someone who was disappointed with Roy's removal from Brawl and was a Chrom supporter leading up to Smash 4's release, I just don't think I could take it if either one of them was removed...

I feel like Roy should have his Binding Blade "projectile" at least/most while Chrom can keep Flare Blade.

In the past, I've kicked around the idea of Dawn from Pokemon getting revealed as a new fighter. She'd be a Pokemon Trainer-style opponent with Piplup, Quilava and Tsareena as her mons. But I kinda kicked that idea away cause it was a bit too close to the "anime/Goku" barrier.

Dawn's a playable character in the Sinnoh games before the anime though. There's no ambiguity there.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

Dawn's a playable character in the Sinnoh games before the anime though. There's no ambiguity there.

Very true point. Though the reasons I chose Piplup and Quilava are pretty inspired by the anime, since the Dawn there had a Piplup and Quilava on her team (though said Quilava was a Cyndaquil for most of its screentime). Tsareena is new though - buuuut I mostly added her cause she's my favorite Pokemon.

 

[Quillion]

You know, a lot of people want to add another Pokémon Trainer with a different set than Red/Leaf, but I don't see how just adding three totally standalone Pokémon won't do that job better.

 

[Pink Yoshi]

You know, a lot of people want to add another Pokémon Trainer with a different set than Red/Leaf, but I don't see how just adding three totally standalone Pokémon won't do that job better.

I feel like if these kinds of Pokemon were added standalone though, they'd have higher risk of being scrutinized by the community. Lemme tell you, less than 0.1% would even entertain the idea of Ivysaur being a standalone fighter. That'd go double for Quilava for example. Plus accusations of "TOO MANY POKEMON REPS" would go flying

...Of course I shouldn't talk. I want Zeena from Sonic Lost World in

 

[JOJONumber691]

You know, a lot of people want to add another Pokémon Trainer with a different set than Red/Leaf, but I don't see how just adding three totally standalone Pokémon won't do that job better.

How I would do it personally is adding a Pokemon Rival. Blue in this case, using Bulbasaur (an Echo of Ivysaur), Quilava, a Pokemon added as a reference to Silver and to keep Gen 1 from being oversaturated, and Blastoise, since you can't have Blue without Blastoise. They also being focused on a Defensive Playstyle would be perfect given Red's Offensive playstyle (another reason why Quilava was chosen over Charmeleon). I think this combination would be perfect for Blue given he is the first Pokemon Rival, and should Rival Red in Smash. Another idea I had is giving Gold and Kris the Fully Evolved Gen 2 Starters to show that Gen 2 was a true sequel to Gen 1., but I like that idea less than Blue. There is also Cynthia, but adding her would require reworking Lucario, since I would give her Lucario, so I'm not doing that lol.

 

[fogbadge]

speaking of pokemon, if smash was to add a regional variant as a fighter who would you want it to be?

 

[Pink Yoshi]

speaking of pokemon, if smash was to add a regional variant as a fighter who would you want it to be?

Sir'fetchd would be hilarious. I choose him.

And I was thinking it'd be fun to discuss our 5 most hype reveals back in the Ultimate pipeline...Here's my top 5:
5. (Daisy's always been a favorite Mario character of mine and seeing her make it in made me really happy, even as an Echo)
4. (Must I explain? )
3. (Even though I haven't played Animal Crossing, I'd seen a lot of it and Isabelle is my spirit animal basically. To see her make it in was a MASSIVE deal for me, I got so stoked)
2. (I'd actually been predicting him for a long, LONG time, and I always thought he'd be awesome)
1. (You have NO IDEA how stoked I was to see Byleth in. I'd seen lots of Three Houses footage and Byleth looked so cool. Their sword, their role as a teacher, their potential. They were one of my absolute most wanted picks for DLC. When they got confirmed, I completely lost my crap. I was beyond excited. Their moveset, their weapons, everything was just perfect to me. Decided right then and there Byleth would join Isabelle as my secondaries, and they did.)

 

[fogbadge]

Sir'fetchd would be hilarious. I choose him.

And I was thinking it'd be fun to discuss our 5 most hype reveals back in the Ultimate pipeline...Here's my top 5:
5. (Daisy's always been a favorite Mario character of mine and seeing her make it in made me really happy, even as an Echo)
4. (Must I explain? )
3. (Even though I haven't played Animal Crossing, I'd seen a lot of it and Isabelle is my spirit animal basically. To see her make it in was a MASSIVE deal for me, I got so stoked)
2. (I'd actually been predicting him for a long, LONG time, and I always thought he'd be awesome)
1. (You have NO IDEA how stoked I was to see Byleth in. I'd seen lots of Three Houses footage and Byleth looked so cool. Their sword, their role as a teacher, their potential. They were one of my absolute most wanted picks for DLC. When they got confirmed, I completely lost my crap. I was beyond excited. Their moveset, their weapons, everything was just perfect to me. Decided right then and there Byleth would join Isabelle as my secondaries, and they did.)

sirfetched isn’t strictly a variant

as for your own question

1: sora
2: b&k
3: inkling
4: issy

Each of them is one of the best things ever

5: err. erm. k.rool? Cause of final sma

 

[Laniv]

speaking of pokemon, if smash was to add a regional variant as a fighter who would you want it to be?

Galarian Mr. Mime, cause it's an Ice-type and I think it'd be funny

 

[Quillion]

speaking of pokemon, if smash was to add a regional variant as a fighter who would you want it to be?

Probably Ninetales since Alolan Vulpix line was one of the big ambassadors of the regional form concept.

I expect a Hisuian foreign starter though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

How I would do it personally is adding a Pokemon Rival. Blue in this case, using Bulbasaur (an Echo of Ivysaur), Quilava, a Pokemon added as a reference to Silver and to keep Gen 1 from being oversaturated, and Blastoise, since you can't have Blue without Blastoise. They also being focused on a Defensive Playstyle would be perfect given Red's Offensive playstyle (another reason why Quilava was chosen over Charmeleon). I think this combination would be perfect for Blue given he is the first Pokemon Rival, and should Rival Red in Smash. Another idea I had is giving Gold and Kris the Fully Evolved Gen 2 Starters to show that Gen 2 was a true sequel to Gen 1., but I like that idea less than Blue. There is also Cynthia, but adding her would require reworking Lucario, since I would give her Lucario, so I'm not doing that lol.

A new Pokemon Trainer would be great, but I'd personally just go for a less orthodox approach.

Why not hold a pool of what THE most popular Pokemon suggestions for Smash are, and choose the 3 most popular ones that could have a reasonable synergy with each other's overall abilities and fighting styles. And they'd be the "Cool Trainer" but of course the focus is more on the Pokemon than the trainer.

For example, Blaziken, Garchomp, Gengar , with focus on speed, projectiles and sleep gimmicks with Gengar, up close combat with combos and above average speed and KO power with Blaziken, and an almost heavyweight fighter with disjoints, range and a strong mix of offensive and defensive prowess but definitely the slowest of the three with Garchomp.

Or what about Mimikyu, Sylveon and Tyranitar or something, again following a sort of light, middle and heavy weight approach but with noticable more difference in the weight classes .

They could even make Trainers a sort of standard set you get with Pokemon fighters in Smash and only the real noticable standalones being likes of Pikachu and Mewtwo. Also maybe a good way to preserve older movesets , as they could say, couple Greninja with Lucario and Charizard maybe?

There will be a moment in Smash's future that there's gonna be an oversaturation of Pokemon characters am sure.

 

[Perkilator]

A new Pokemon Trainer would be great, but I'd personally just go for a less orthodox approach.

Why not hold a pool of what THE most popular Pokemon suggestions for Smash are, and choose the 3 most popular ones that could have a reasonable synergy with each other's overall abilities and fighting styles. And they'd be the "Cool Trainer" but of course the focus is more on the Pokemon than the trainer.

I had a similar idea, but for Terry.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What makes Pokemon Trainer work is that there is a natural theme that ties the three together.

If you have to make up a reason why three Pokemon are grouped together or do it willy nilly it's not worth doing.

Regardless Pokemon Trainer is such a developer nightmare I don't think we'll see another character like them. Frankly I'm shocked we got Pyra/Mythra in the way that we did.

 

[fogbadge]

What makes Pokemon Trainer work is that there is a natural theme that ties the three together.

If you have to make up a reason why three Pokemon are grouped together or do it wildly Billy, it's not worth doing.

Regardless Pokemon Trainer is such a developer nightmare I don't think we'll see another character like them. Frankly I'm shocked we got Pyra/Mythra in the way that we did.

perhaps they saved time by porting their models straight from xenoblade 2? You know like they did with min min

 

[Ivander]

A new Pokemon Trainer would be great, but I'd personally just go for a less orthodox approach.

Why not hold a pool of what THE most popular Pokemon suggestions for Smash are, and choose the 3 most popular ones that could have a reasonable synergy with each other's overall abilities and fighting styles. And they'd be the "Cool Trainer" but of course the focus is more on the Pokemon than the trainer.

For example, Blaziken, Garchomp, Gengar , with focus on speed, projectiles and sleep gimmicks with Gengar, up close combat with combos and above average speed and KO power with Blaziken, and an almost heavyweight fighter with disjoints, range and a strong mix of offensive and defensive prowess but definitely the slowest of the three with Garchomp.

Or what about Mimikyu, Sylveon and Tyranitar or something, again following a sort of light, middle and heavy weight approach but with noticable more difference in the weight classes .

They could even make Trainers a sort of standard set you get with Pokemon fighters in Smash and only the real noticable standalones being likes of Pikachu and Mewtwo. Also maybe a good way to preserve older movesets , as they could say, couple Greninja with Lucario and Charizard maybe?

There will be a moment in Smash's future that there's gonna be an oversaturation of Pokemon characters am sure.

How about give us Typlosion, Samurott and Decidueye for a Pokemon Trainer, like what was speculated with Pokemon Legends? Typlosion can be the fast speedster with alot of mobility moves like Flame Wheel and whatnot. Samurott can be the heavy fighter with a decent range to his attacks thanks to their shell swords. And Decidueye can be the ranged, yet tricky fighter that uses moves that try to keep fighters from getting too close to Decidueye. And we get a Gen 2 and 5 Pokemon while also getting the other wanted Gen 7 starter for Smash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

perhaps they saved time by porting their models straight from xenoblade 2? You know like they did with min min

I don't think they did that for Xenoblade considering some of the edits they had to make.

 

[Quillion]

I still think PT and Pythra should transform with Shield B rather than Down B.

I just think Shield B would be a great input reserved for non-attack status moves.