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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Mushroomguy12

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Oh she's definitely important. She's a legend class spirit for a reason. :p I think it was one of the Warriors devs that put it the best: you can't have Marth and not Caeda. Smash (and amiibo related stuff) is pretty much the only place where Marth is without her.
I think at the very least she should have been in Marth's Final Smash the same way they put Fiora in Shulk's and Paula, Poo, Kumatora, and Boney in Ness and Lucas's Final Smashes.
 

Guynamednelson

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I think at the very least she should have been in Marth's Final Smash the same way they put Fiora in Shulk's and Paula, Poo, Kumatora, and Boney in Ness and Lucas's Final Smashes.
Would this mean Chrom has to have triple-duty as an FS cameo and fighter?
 
D

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As someone who has never played an FE game, doesn't plan or care to in the future and has zero attachment to the series whatsoever, I can give Nintendo and Sakurai a pass for giving one DLC character slot to Fire Emblem. If we weren't getting eleven in total, I'd be a little more upset by it but under the circumstances that we are getting six more, I have no objections with the decision they made.
 
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SKX31

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This is honestly getting annoying.

so, just stop this.

In a few days this is the second time people make fun of me with this type of posts and I honestly can't stand to it.
To make things perfectly clear - that was not meant as a personal attack. I did not even notice your post (nor do I even know what even happened a few pages back. Not gonna go back and check). It was just meant to respond to Flyboy and a joke about over-reaching in general (I know I've overreached and jumped the gun in the past, so that joke's about me partly too).

Hanlon's Razor (at least a version of it): "Let us not attribute to malice and cruelty what may be referred to less criminal motives."

I think at the very least she should have been in Marth's Final Smash the same way they put Fiora in Shulk's and Paula, Poo, Kumatora, and Boney in Ness and Lucas's Final Smashes.
Sakurai and Sora Ltd. have always been kinda inconsistent when it comes to those details - but it just looks to me like them mistakenly forgetting or deciding that they don't really need to.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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Would this mean Chrom has to have triple-duty as an FS cameo and fighter?
I mean Caeda would be in Marth's Final Smash, not Chrom? I know Pair Up wasn't introduced yet, but Smash isn't any stranger to canonical inconsistencies. (Koopalings becoming Shadow Mario is one).

Although one could argue you could pair up Marth and Caeda in Fire Emblem Heroes.
 

Cosmic77

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Looking back at that quote, I get why Sakurai added Corrin, but I think he also understands why the fanbase gets so upset whenever another FE character gets added.

The "They could be fun and unique" argument can be used for practically every character ever speculated, so after that, the next big thing to consider would be popularity and demand. Corrin and Byleth didn't have that, and since fans had actually made it abundantly clear that they thought there were too many FE characters, it kinda makes them feel like they were purposely ignored.

I'm really interested to hear what Sakurai has to say about Byleth in the next Famitsu column. I want to hear from his own mouth if Nintendo was responsible for Byleth, or if he and his team had something to do with it.
 
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Ura

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Also on the topic of mainline entry characters being the priority, it's very interesting to see how remake characters are pretty much always turned down in every Smash game. We didn't get a Johto Pokemon in Smash 4, no Caeda in Smash 4, no Sceptile in Smash 4's DLC, no Celica/Alm in Smash Ultimate's base roster.

The closest we have to this is Kanto Pokemon Trainer and even then, he's kinda the poster boy for Trainer characters and even got in over a Hoenn trainer.
 

Iko MattOrr

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To make things perfectly clear - that was not meant as a personal attack. I did not even notice your post (nor do I even know what even happened a few pages back. Not gonna go back and check). It was just meant to respond to Flyboy and a joke about over-reaching in general (I know I've overreached and jumped the gun in the past, so that joke's about me partly too).

Hanlon's Razor (at least a version of it): "Let us not attribute to malice and cruelty what may be referred to less criminal motives."
Sorry for that post, I understand. I replied that way so that other people won't join the meme train like happend last time a few days ago.

Also, this is the last post on this subject, let's go back to character speculation now.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Sakurai consideres echoes a free dessert as they take like 5 minutes, so let's tale the following into account. Smash 4 had 58 characters, 56 not counting echoes. FE had 6 characters, 5 not counting echoes.

Ultimate has at least 88, 82 minus echoes. FE has 8, 6 minus echoes.


You may be asking "What's so important about this?" The answer is simple, Sakurai doesn't count echoes, especially as seen due to how Ultimate stacks them. People often say "Sakurai said we have too many Fore Emblem characters!" But fail to realize that 5 out of 56 is about an 11th of the roster while Ultimate has 1 13th, the ratio is less, which is likely why Sakurai thought he could still add Byleth.
EDIT: The 13th is counting Byleth



Then again I feel that if every franchise other than FE suddenly got 15 newcomers and FE would then get only 1 after that people would still ***** about too many FE characters
 
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Cosmic77

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Also on the topic of mainline entry characters being the priority, it's very interesting to see how remake characters are pretty much always turned down in every Smash game. We didn't get a Johto Pokemon in Smash 4, no Caeda in Smash 4, no Sceptile in Smash 4's DLC, no Celica/Alm in Smash Ultimate's base roster.

The closest we have to this is Kanto Pokemon Trainer and even then, he's kinda the poster boy for Trainer characters and even got in over a Hoenn trainer.
Unless one of those characters gets a huge role in a new entry, I don't expect us to ever get a non-Echo, fully unique character from a game that isn't from the newest installment in the series.

I guess it's not impossible, but supporters can never stick with their character long-term. If people were still yelling and screaming for Decidueye, there might've been a chance in the future, but most people realize that the current Gen of Pokemon has the best chance. Same with FE and to a lesser extent Xenoblade.
 

SvartWolf

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Rate my season pass umu.

Fs2.jpeg


It has everything! platformers, exploration, action adventure, sandbox, shooter, fighting game, non human characters, males females, bishonens, gender neutrals, cute, sexy, cool, though, swords, staff, guns, western, first party, third party, promotional picks, legendary picks, fan favorites, surprises, and even a little chocolate.
 
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N3ON

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Then again I feel that if every franchise other than FE suddenly got 15 newcomers and FE would then get only 1 after that people would still ***** about too many FE characters
People used to ***** about the amount of characters Kirby and Star Fox had, then other series began exceeding them, and now you don't hear those complaints at all. So if FE was no longer seen as disproportionate, I really doubt the ******** would continue.
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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Rate my season pass umu.

View attachment 258754

It has everything! platformers, exploration, action adventure, sandbox, shooter, fighting game, non human characters, males females, bishonens, gender neutrals, cute, sexy, cool, though, swords, staff, guns, western, first party, third party, promotional picks, legendary picks, fan favorites, surprises, and even a little chocolate.
I love Kass, how would you think he’d play?
 

Gazorpazorpfield

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Rate my season pass umu.

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I'm always torn on Doomguy; he's super cool, but I know he'll prevent Master Chief from getting in. :/ But dang, you tempt me with the Alucard and Chosen Undead combo. Dark Souls in Smash is the truth
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Ultimate has 7 echoes.
2 of them are FE, I may not have been clear but the 8 was FE characters and the 6 was FE minus echoes
People used to ***** about the amount of characters Kirby and Star Fox had, then other series began exceeding them, and now you don't hear those complaints at all. So if FE was no longer seen as disproportionate, I really doubt the ******** would continue.
Maybe it's the 5 years of people screaming "Fire Emblem bad", even outside the context of Smash, but I doubt it. Remember, Smash fans were hella pissed off at the Nintendo account for saying "Three Houses comes out next month! Are you excited?" Not to mention the general dismissal of FE I've seen solely because "It has too many characters in Smash! Therefore it's garbage and I refuse to give it a chance!" **** like that for half a ****ing decade is why FE fans have been clapping back at Smash fans because of Byleth, which gets them labeled as sore winners because they dared to be happy
 
D

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Rate my season pass umu.

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It has everything! platformers, exploration, action adventure, sandbox, shooter, fighting game, non human characters, males females, bishonens, gender neutrals, cute, sexy, cool, though, swords, staff, guns, western, first party, third party, promotional picks, legendary picks, fan favorites, surprises, and even a little chocolate.
Atelier, a series known for being a slice of life and relaxing adventure with a nice focus on alchemy, being the Fighter Pack coming after DOOM, a series known for an armored space soldier going around and blowing through every demon he sees with a weapon called Big ****ing Gun, is just simply perfect.
 

Guynamednelson

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but most people realize that the current Gen of Pokemon has the best chance
More like they care more about filling out quotas than mons that properly represent the franchise.
 

MooMew64

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I think the root of the problem is that we're all arguing over a video game in the first place.

Like, if you like FE, awesome! If you don't, that's cool, but please just be respectful about it. Both sides of this thing constantly antagonize each other and act immaturely.

Basically? It's just a video game. Why does anyone gotta be mad?
 

Evil Trapezium

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Rate my season pass umu.

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It has everything! platformers, exploration, action adventure, sandbox, shooter, fighting game, non human characters, males females, bishonens, gender neutrals, cute, sexy, cool, though, swords, staff, guns, western, first party, third party, promotional picks, legendary picks, fan favorites, surprises, and even a little chocolate.
Doom Guy and Alucard are neat but the rest are meh.
 

MooMew64

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My ideal Season 2 looks like this:

FP6. Waluigi
FP7. Arle Nadja
FP8. Yuri Lowell
FP9. Sora
FP10. Bandana Waddle Dee
FP11. Octolings

Again, not predictions, just wants.
 

Rikarte

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I know next to nothing about Atelier other than it having cute girls and the straight up most amazing videogame OST I've ever heard so I'm sold.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I think we should consider that fact that maybe, just maybe, popularity doesn't dictate every single character choice ever. Have we as a community really thought about that?

It seems to me like it's the proverbial block-fitting game, where speculators attempt to fit the square "popularity" shape into the triangular newcomer space. Does every character have differing levels of popularity? Of course they do, but there are so many other aspects to this that I think it's unfair to always boil things down to popularity when time and time again, it doesn't play as large of a role as people think.

Now, obviously base game was heavily influenced by the ballot. For that, I am eternally grateful for the Smash community (or at least part of it). With the DLC picks, however, I feel as thought the only additions that could be attributed to pure popularity would be Dragon Quest and Banjo. Even then, I feel like there were absolutely outside factors that also made the character happen.

Just some thoughts, I suppose. I think if the roster selection only focused on popularity, the character select screen would look very, very different.

(By the way, I'm not saying popularity levels are a bad metric to go by. The Smash team should definitely look into popularity. But I do believe it shouldn't be the only factor taken into account for any single pick).
 

Iko MattOrr

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Oh. Well, point still stands that the ratio is different between games
The point is that while the ratio of FE characters decreased, it decreased for all the other series as well, including Animal Crossing despite the doubled amount of characters (from 1 to 2), because most of what made the roster bigger are third party newcomers.
Most of the other series still have less characters than FE does.
 

SvartWolf

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I love Kass, how would you think he’d play?
Have a couple of ideas but what i'm most sure is that i would give him the 4 champion powers that link uses in BotW in teh same way zelda uses the 3 link's magic in Ocarina of Time.
Up b would be revali's Gale, Side B would be Daruk's protection, Neutral B would be Urbosa's Fury and down B would be Mipha's Grace.

This could either be immediate more normal specials (Daruk's protection a hitbox that gives intangibility and reflects projectiles) or other way could be powerful speciasl with slow activation times. meaning that Kass would like to put some distance in order to execute those specials.

If that would be the case, Revali's Gale would be the quickest and work like a full charged Hero's UpB. Mipha Grace would be the slowest and cure 10% in a span of 5 seconds (getting hit cancels the effect), Daruk's protection would give kass a one hit Shield/Reflector kinda like bounce and Urbosa's Fury would be an explosion akin to a medium Magic Burst. Since this specials would have a big startup, Kass could sing a quick verse in order to activate them.


Since all of them can be very potent , Kass would need to get some breathing space in order to activate them and limiting the spam. Specially of Daruks protection and Mipha's Grace.

From there for his more neutral moves, you have 3 options

First is a combination of kicks and ussing his instrument as a weapon, with somewhat goofy but rather simple atacks.
Second is a made up attack style with wing sweeps (like falco), and maybe a Rito Bow for smash attacks and a couple of aerials.
And third, my personal fabvorite but would be the longest stretch, he using more of some kind of "channeler/Shaman" style where he quickly summon the champions spirits in order to attcack as he sings small verses. having slow but big disjoints, coupled with some quick tilts. (summoning daruk to do a big sword attack like Ike's as his side smash, summoning urbosa in order to do a shield bash akin to Palutena as his dash attack, summoning Revali in order to do a downwards bow attack similar to megaman's projectile as his down air, etc...)

He may or may not be constantly with his accordeon, but he doesn't uses he should have a long taunt similar to bayonetta's dances where he plays it.
 

TewnLeenk

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Anyone's Fighter Pass 2 concept that has Doomguy in it gets a 10/10 from me instantly.
 

Cosmic77

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More like they care more about filling out quotas than mons that properly represent the franchise.
Aside from Jigglypuff and Incineroar though, are there really many other Pokemon that would be better than the ones we currently have in Smash? Pikachu is the mascot, so no need to explain why its fitting. Pichu only got in because it's an easy clone of the mascot. Mewtwo is arguably the most iconic Legendary. PT embodies the entire concept of Pokemon games, and I think most people can agree Lucario and Greninja are two of the most iconic Pokemon from their respective Gens, if not the most iconic period.

I know you aren't a fan of Incineroar, but at least SuMo got represented instead of being left out of Smash's roster altogether. Sakurai just got lucky with Lucario and Greninja, and sometimes that luck doesn't carry over to the next Pokemon.
 
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WeirdChillFever

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Kass would be amazing as an uuh maybe an echo-based fighter? (Literal Echo, not the Epsilon Fighters). Place sound sources around the battlefield, put down some walls and watch the sound bounce around.

But it's nothing compared to Kilton's potential
 

CodakTheWarrior

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View attachment 258754

It has everything! platformers, exploration, action adventure, sandbox, shooter, fighting game, non human characters, males females, bishonens, gender neutrals, cute, sexy, cool, though, swords, staff, guns, western, first party, third party, promotional picks, legendary picks, fan favorites, surprises, and even a little chocolate.
I would be 100% fine with this despite not knowing what Atelier or Darkstalkers are just because of Kass, honestly would make the entire pass worth it


Actually, if you are interested in seeing it, me and my friend made a Kass moveset based entirely around music and switching between the champions’ songs, I think it does him justice
 
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perfectchaos83

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I think we should consider that fact that maybe, just maybe, popularity doesn't dictate every single character choice ever. Have we as a community really thought about that?

It seems to me like it's the proverbial block-fitting game, where speculators attempt to fit the square "popularity" shape into the triangular newcomer space. Does every character have differing levels of popularity? Of course they do, but there are so many other aspects to this that I think it's unfair to always boil things down to popularity when time and time again, it doesn't play as large of a role as people think.

Now, obviously base game was heavily influenced by the ballot. For that, I am eternally grateful for the Smash community (or at least part of it). With the DLC picks, however, I feel as thought the only additions that could be attributed to pure popularity would be Dragon Quest and Banjo. Even then, I feel like there were absolutely outside factors that also made the character happen.

Just some thoughts, I suppose. I think if the roster selection only focused on popularity, the character select screen would look very, very different.

(By the way, I'm not saying popularity levels are a bad metric to go by. The Smash team should definitely look into popularity. But I do believe it shouldn't be the only factor taken into account for any single pick).
Exactly. I'd say there's a time and place to say that "unpopular" characters probably wouldn't get in, but those are characters that just aren't liked. (Can't really come up with a character off hand). Most characters brought up in Smash speculation are popular in some form or another, so I think the criticism of "lacking popularity" is a bit silly.
 

SvartWolf

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Kass would be amazing as an uuh maybe an echo-based fighter? (Literal Echo, not the Epsilon Fighters). Place sound sources around the battlefield, put down some walls and watch the sound bounce around.

But it's nothing compared to Kilton's potential
What i like about giving him the champion's power is that not only he helps represent one part of BOTW that link doesn't, but also works as a bridge between teh four champions, and i think that channeling the champions spirits as a concept works better with his theme as Songs, but not only songs as sound, but also as legends and lorekeeping.

With songs that reminiscent the deeds of the ones that are long gone. while he isn't a shaman, IMO wouldn't be so much of a stretch to make him a channeler of dead heroes.

Plus think of all the potential jojo memes that he could create,
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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Have a couple of ideas but what i'm most sure is that i would give him the 4 champion powers that link uses in BotW in teh same way zelda uses the 3 link's magic in Ocarina of Time.
Up b would be revali's Gale, Side B would be Daruk's protection, Neutral B would be Urbosa's Fury and down B would be Mipha's Grace.

This could either be immediate more normal specials (Daruk's protection a hitbox that gives intangibility and reflects projectiles) or other way could be powerful speciasl with slow activation times. meaning that Kass would like to put some distance in order to execute those specials.

If that would be the case, Revali's Gale would be the quickest and work like a full charged Hero's UpB. Mipha Grace would be the slowest and cure 10% in a span of 5 seconds (getting hit cancels the effect), Daruk's protection would give kass a one hit Shield/Reflector kinda like bounce and Urbosa's Fury would be an explosion akin to a medium Magic Burst. Since this specials would have a big startup, Kass could sing a quick verse in order to activate them.


Since all of them can be very potent , Kass would need to get some breathing space in order to activate them and limiting the spam. Specially of Daruks protection and Mipha's Grace.

From there for his more neutral moves, you have 3 options

First is a combination of kicks and ussing his instrument as a weapon, with somewhat goofy but rather simple atacks.
Second is a made up attack style with wing sweeps (like falco), and maybe a Rito Bow for smash attacks and a couple of aerials.
And third, my personal fabvorite but would be the longest stretch, he using more of some kind of "channeler/Shaman" style where he quickly summon the champions spirits in order to attcack as he sings small verses. having slow but big disjoints, coupled with some quick tilts. (summoning daruk to do a big sword attack like Ike's as his side smash, summoning urbosa in order to do a shield bash akin to Palutena as his dash attack, summoning Revali in order to do a downwards bow attack similar to megaman's projectile as his down air, etc...)

He may or may not be constantly with his accordeon, but he doesn't uses he should have a long taunt similar to bayonetta's dances where he plays it.
That’s a neat idea, the use of the champions spirits kind of reminds me of how Byleth incorporates various aspects of their game into the move set.

Also I simply love the accordion taunt idea, might use Kass simply for that alone haha.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Seriously though has anyone here ever noticed how people act when asking for more non-character representation in Smash? If you want another Ice Climber, it's ok! If you want another Earthbound AT, it's perfectly fine. If you want Fates to have more songs than Lost in Thoughts All Alone, god, you already have sooooo much! Fire Emblem fans are almost cartoonishly greedy! It's so unfair that one composer made a bunch of FE remixes, he should have been told to stop and add a Zelda remix! Typical FE fans, never satisfied! What's that? FE fans aren't happy with Corrin? How dare you! You know how much Kirby fans wanted another character? For shame FE fans!

2 years later
OH MY GOD THE FE FANS ARE SOOOO MEEEAAAAN THEY'RE SAYING 'HOES MAD' AT MEEEEEE WHY ARE THEY SO MEEEAAAAN
 

Guybrush20X6

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I still want a Gen 3 and Gen 5 Pokemon in Smash but I am aware of how strong the backlash against them would be.

Blaziken as a Captain Falcon Semi-clone would still be rad tho.
 
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