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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
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Disregard likelihood for this game. How interested/satisfied you would be if this newcomer was included:

Lycanroc (Pokemon)
K.K. Slider (Animal Crossing)
Mr. Resetti (Animal Crossing)
Black Knight (Fire Emblem)
Hanafuda (A character based on Nintendo's first selling product in history)
Mini-Kangaroo) (A character based on Nintendo's big selling toy business in the 1970s, a business that happened between Hanafuda cards and video games)
Lip (Panel de Pon)
Prince Sable (For the Frog the Bell Tolls)
Excitebiker (Excitebike)
Balloon Fighter (Balloon Trip)
Mach Rider (Mach Rider)
Mike Jones (StarTropics)
Octolings (Splatoon)
Heihachi (Tekken)
Ryu Hayabasa (Ninja Gaiden)
Frogger (Frogger)
Leon Kennedy (Resident Evil)
Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
Dante (Devil May Cry)
Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
Professor Layton (Professor Layton)
Saber Artoria (Fate)
I’d be satisfied with most of them, so I’ll just say which ones I wouldn’t be. Lycanroc would just feel like monster-of-the-week, so until I see evidence that he has longlasting popularity I’ll be kind of bummed (most Gen 7 picks would be that way). Hanafuda and Mini-Kangaroo I’m mostly neutral on, it’d depend on what moveset they end up having. Frogger I’m neutral on, it just feels like time forgot him. Saber I’d actually hate.
 

zferolie

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So with all the rumors, hints, facts who do you guys think are still quite likely based on everything seen? For me its.

1. Isabelle
2. Dixie
3. Shantae
4. Geno
5. A retro character.

Those i can say for sure will be in.
 

cybersai

Smash Ace
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Shantae has one of the least likely chances to get in, all the others have a shot.
 
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zferolie

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Shantae has one of the least likely chances to get in, all the others have a shot.
Given how iddly quiet wayfoward has been, the furniture of the last dorect(her color chairs, arabian pillor, a gravy boat looking like a genie lamp) and shovel knight an assist, makes me think she is quite likely. Lots of little hints add up.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Given how iddly quiet wayfoward has been, the furniture of the last dorect(her color chairs, arabian pillor, a gravy boat looking like a genie lamp) and shovel knight an assist, makes me think she is quite likely. Lots of little hints add up.
No indie character is quite likely in my mind. She certainly has a much better chance than before, and I’ve generally preferred her as the indie rep to other choices. But quite likely just seems like a stretch. She does, however, have the best chance she has ever had like several characters.

The background also has around 3 or 4 different characters that are trying to use it as proof. I don’t think that Shantae is guaranteed to be the one hinted at from that quite yet.

More over we unfortunately don’t have any precedence for Western Third Parties in the game. A supposition I want to see smashed, but still has yet to happen... and I’m not convinced the first would be indie necessarily...
 

SoupCanMafia

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No indie character is quite likely in my mind. She certainly has a much better chance than before, and I’ve generally preferred her as the indie rep to other choices. But quite likely just seems like a stretch. She does, however, have the best chance she has ever had like several characters.

The background also has around 3 or 4 different characters that are trying to use it as proof. I don’t think that Shantae is guaranteed to be the one hinted at from that quite yet.

More over we unfortunately don’t have any precedence for Western Third Parties in the game. A supposition I want to see smashed, but still has yet to happen... and I’m not convinced the first would be indie necessarily...
It can get a little weirder over in the dedicated Shantae Forum. Where I discussed color theory in relation to hindu chakra, as well as generalized color theory.
 

SmashChu

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So far 41 characters have been shown on the site. If we keep going at the current average of 3 per week with roughly 14 weeks left, we'll have at least 82 characters in all when the game launches. The current total is 73 meaning that there would be at least 9 left, not including DLC. I feel like this lines up perfectly with most people's theories that the base roster will have at least 4 or 5 newcomers and 4 or 5 echoes. It also lines up well with the idea that there are probably two Directs left before the game comes out. For echoes, the "safe bets" seem to be: Isabelle, Shadow, Ken, and Dixie while the pool for newcomers is still fairly decent but a seventh gen Pokemon ultimately agreed to be the safest bet on a newcomer. Nine also puts Ultimate at the exact same number of newcomers that SSB4 had before DLC. Directs in September and November seem to be safe bets so 4-5 per Direct (the August one had 5, for reference's sake) is a fairly reasonable guess too.
Just want to point out that there are 71 fighters per the website, not 73. They count Pokemon Trainer as 1 character. This number does include Mii Fighters which are on the site as 1 character but counted separately for the post, so its really 69 updates. It comes out to about 9 "free spaces" though that assumes it was 41 after 9/3/18's update. I agree with you but just wanted to clarify.
 

zferolie

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Just want to point out that there are 71 fighters per the website, not 73. They count Pokemon Trainer as 1 character. This number does include Mii Fighters which are on the site as 1 character but counted separately for the post, so its really 69 updates. It comes out to about 9 "free spaces" though that assumes it was 41 after 9/3/18's update. I agree with you but just wanted to clarify.
so that would be 80? that comes close to my guessed 84 total base roster. 5-6 Newcomers and 6-7 echos still coming.
 

Fatmanonice

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So with all the rumors, hints, facts who do you guys think are still quite likely based on everything seen? For me its.

1. Isabelle
2. Dixie
3. Shantae
4. Geno
5. A retro character.

Those i can say for sure will be in.
The 5 safest in my opinion are:

1. Dixie (echo)
2. Shadow (echo)
3. Isabelle (echo or unique)
4. Ken (echo)
5. 7th Gen Pokemon (probably Inceniroar)

1. Dixie seems likely, especially if you've been paying attention to color ALTs. People quickly picked up notable ones that were missing (Dark Samus for Samus and Chrom for Ike) and those that were shown with no hesitation (Jeanne for Bayonetta and Galactica Knight for Metaknight). Sakurai's philosophy on echoes has largely been that they could reasonably pass for an ALT but have enough traits that could be used to make a full character. Dixie fits this better than anybody on this list. She has technically been an ALT since Brawl but has enough moves that could be reasonably swapped out. Diddy and Dixie are roughly the same size and the one two moves that totally don't make sense for Dixie are the cartwheel and the rocket barrels. Swap out those moves and it would easily work. She also has enough popularity to back up this decision.

2. Almost the same case as Dixie but you can just change Shadow's running animation and give him a teleport instead of the spring to make it make sense and work. While Tails is more deserving, Shadow's more iconic to Smash and Nintendo as a whole not only because of being a repeat AT but also because Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was the game that ended the decade long SEGA vs Nintendo rivalry.

3. Isabelle is too big of a character to be totally left on the sidelines this time around. Pretty much went from side character to regularly appearing in commercials and cameos with Nintendo's biggest franchises like Mario and Kirby after one freakin' game, nevermind the multiple spin-offs that New Leaf inspired and the monstrous amount of merch that Isabelle now has. She's roughly 5 years old and regularly makes top 10 lists in favorite Nintendo character polls; that's a big deal. Despite this, it's hard to say whether she will be unique or not but it's practically guaranteed she'll be playable.

4. Ken practically launched the concept of clone characters in fighting games. Aside from Mario and Luigi and Sonic and Tails, there really isn't a more iconic duo in gaming than Ryu and Ken. They're so iconic that they were in Wreck It Ralph FFS. Outside of Isabelle, probably the closest to guaranteed on my list.

5. The one pattern that has held true for every single Smash game: at least one totally new Pokemon, with one likely representing the latest generation. I was hesitant to admit this but it will probably be Inceniroar. I was team Decidueye but I admit that adding it in Pokken totally took the piss and thunder out of a Smash reveal. Inceniroar is relevant in the anime, had a notable role in a movie, and is heavily implied to be one of Ash's Pokemon down the line, knocking off all the check boxes, something that only Ash's Pikachu has done when it comes to Pokemon Smash candidates. Lycanroc might end up as a surprise upset but I strongly doubt it, especially when the timeframe of the Alolan starter leaks lines up near perfectly with the start of Ultimate's development.
 

SmashChu

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so that would be 80? that comes close to my guessed 84 total base roster. 5-6 Newcomers and 6-7 echos still coming.
Thats what it looks like. I'm checking my math but I come out somewhere between 8-10, but probably about 9. This would put the number of fighters at 80 (website has 71) and the Fighter number either at 70 or 72.

5. The one pattern that has held true for every single Smash game: at least one totally new Pokemon, with one likely representing the latest generation. I was hesitant to admit this but it will probably be Inceniroar. I was team Decidueye but I admit that adding it in Pokken totally took the piss and thunder out of a Smash reveal. Inceniroar is relevant in the anime, had a notable role in a movie, and is heavily implied to be one of Ash's Pokemon down the line, knocking off all the check boxes, something that only Ash's Pikachu has done when it comes to Pokemon Smash candidates. Lycanroc might end up as a surprise upset but I strongly doubt it, especially when the timeframe of the Alolan starter leaks lines up near perfectly with the start of Ultimate's development.
Honestly, Inceniroar just seems like a meme pick at this point. I feel like Decidueye being added to Pokken helps his chances as he would be added to Smash for similar reasons as Pokken. Rowlet was also a lot more popular in general. Love to hear some counter point but if anything I feel like Inceniroar is being talked about as some people want him over Decidueye.

If anything, the speed everyone went to Inceniroar is evidence how much of a hivemind the community has become.
 
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Oasis_S

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Hey it's SmashChu.


You know this is probably completely inconsequential but 80 and 72 can be divided into 4, which works with the way Smash Down was created.

It is of course inconsequential because it's not like you can't play Smash Down with 3 players lol. Still, I guess it could be designed with particular numbers in mind.
 
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zferolie

Smash Hero
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Thats what it looks like. I'm checking my math but I come out somewhere between 8-10, but probably about 9. This would put the number of fighters at 80 (website has 71) and the Fighter number either at 70 or 72.


Honestly, Inceniroar just seems like a meme pick at this point. I feel like Decidueye being added to Pokken helps his chances as he would be added to Smash for similar reasons as Pokken. Rowlet was also a lot more popular in general. Love to hear some counter point but if anything I feel like Inceniroar is being talked about as some people want him over Decidueye.

If anything, the speed everyone went to Inceniroar is evidence how much of a hivemind the community has become.
Yeah 80 or a few more i think is a nice solid bet. I am saying 84 as it works very well with that smash down mode. 84 is divisible by 2, 3, and 4, which sounds great for the mode so everyone is picked no mater how many play at base. Sure dlc well mess those numbers a bit though, but its to be expected.

As for pokemon, my pick i want is Nihilego fused with Lusamine, but i know that will never happen :(

 

SmashChu

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Yeah 80 or a few more i think is a nice solid bet. I am saying 84 as it works very well with that smash down mode. 84 is divisible by 2, 3, and 4, which sounds great for the mode so everyone is picked no mater how many play at base. Sure dlc well mess those numbers a bit though, but its to be expected.

As for pokemon, my pick i want is Nihilego fused with Lusamine, but i know that will never happen :(

I see what your saying. I can't speak on any of the modes or whatnot as I really haven't kept up with the game. Mostly stop by to talk Smash and its kind of nice not being that invested in the roster or anything.

As for the numbers, I was right with 9. There are 37 character updates with 41 updates left (13 weeks of 3 plus 2 for this week). 69 characters (counting Pokemon Trainer and Mii Fighter as one) less 37 leaves 32 characters left. 41 less 32 is the 9. This is assuming the last week has three characters. As far as how many will be echos vs new characters depends. But there will likely be 3-5 new characters and 4-6 Echoes.
 

Fatmanonice

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Thats what it looks like. I'm checking my math but I come out somewhere between 8-10, but probably about 9. This would put the number of fighters at 80 (website has 71) and the Fighter number either at 70 or 72.


Honestly, Inceniroar just seems like a meme pick at this point. I feel like Decidueye being added to Pokken helps his chances as he would be added to Smash for similar reasons as Pokken. Rowlet was also a lot more popular in general. Love to hear some counter point but if anything I feel like Inceniroar is being talked about as some people want him over Decidueye.

If anything, the speed everyone went to Inceniroar is evidence how much of a hivemind the community has become.
I'd argue Buzzswole is a meme pick but that's just me. The total absence of all three starters so far is pretty notable though.I said it another thread but, in a perfect world, the rep would be Champion Kukui or Hau with all three final evolutions ala Pokemon Trainer but I seriously don't see that happening.
 

EricTheGamerman

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I know it’s sacrilige at this point, but I’m not sure I expect a new Pokémon. Specifically I think the whol guaranteed Gen 7 Pokemon is over states for sure. There seems to be a lot of disagreement over which Gen 7 is the best, and I’m not sure th designs would have lent themselves to Smash in the same way Greninja did. Sure we’ve always gotten a new Pokémon, but we always discuss how Sakurai consistently breaks rules, patterns, and expectations. This could be the game we don’t get a new one when we get three back.

Plus I see it more likely that a poll Pokémon would get in even if he is required to include one in some scenario. I’m sure there was a most requested Pokémon character out there that wasn’t a returning veteran like say Gardevoir. Why not kill two birds with the one stone of including said popular Pokémon and feeling some specific quota.

A quota I feel the need to mention again, that we’ve artificially derived from the past games and have zero evidence beyond that.
 

bugman_850

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Here's who I see as shoe-ins:
Geno (absolutely HAS to happen, we already have ridley and krool, complete the trio)
Skull Kid (we're overdue for a new Zelda rep, unique design, potential for fun and interesting fighting style, only Zelda game not yet represented by a character besides SS)
Banjo-Kazooie (in terms of retro reps, this is the best we could possibly get for the n64 era, highly requested, considered for melee, rare and Microsoft are good as gold, it's TIME.

As for echoes:
Ken (ryu's natural clone, too obvious, just add fire effects)
Shadow (again, natural clone to sonic, just add some unique animations and boom)
Isabelle (This one I'm a little iffy about but she makes sense, mascot of ac at this point, again slightly different animations)

I don't see Dixie getting in as she would have been revealed alongside krool
I don't see any indies making it as full fledged fighters
Bandanna Waddle Dee would be cool but he seems more like an assist trophy type character (would LOVE to be proven wrong though)
I have a feeling that we wont see any more pokemon this time around, dunno why to be honest

This game seems like Sakurai's way of giving the fans everything they have been asking for. All of the highest requested fighters are getting in, and I'm very excited
 

Michael the Spikester

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t honestly wouldn't surprise me actually if the final trilogy of the modern DKC games has King K. Rool and the Kritters returning which the developers has been building up to as pulling the strings behind the Tikis and Walrus vikings and why K. Rool is in Smash now alongside being highly requested to eventually reveal said upcoming game. It'd be doubt for him to appear in Smash and just not to ever again in any game.
 

zferolie

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I honestly think Simon and Richter already fills in that slot. I'd say they're pretty retro.
But would a 3rd party count as a retro? if that was the case Pac Man would have been the retro, not Duck Hunt in the last game.

I feel like Sakurai would always put a retro in, because he seems to want to bring new light to old series. Happened with Game And Watch/Ice CLimbers, ROB/Pit, and then Duck Hunt. Plus I feel he likes the challenge of making a move set for them
 

Michael the Spikester

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But would a 3rd party count as a retro? if that was the case Pac Man would have been the retro, not Duck Hunt in the last game.

I feel like Sakurai would always put a retro in, because he seems to want to bring new light to old series. Happened with Game And Watch/Ice CLimbers, ROB/Pit, and then Duck Hunt. Plus I feel he likes the challenge of making a move set for them
Do have a good point there. Thing is we're probably seeing a Rhythm Heaven rep based on the hint Sakurai left in K. Rool's reveal trailer. If my prediction is right we'll be getting a rounded 90 playable characters including Echos and DLC. So unless Rhythm Heaven somehow doesn't make the cut I could say a Retro might take their place.
 
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Lord-Zero

Smash Lord
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So with all the rumors, hints, facts who do you guys think are still quite likely based on everything seen? For me its.

1. Isabelle
2. Dixie
3. Shantae
4. Geno
5. A retro character.

Those i can say for sure will be in.
Between the nasty mix of fake leaks and guesses, I’d go with these:

1: Isabelle (Villager Echo)
2: Ken or Akuma (Ryu Echo)
3: Gen 7 Pokemon
4: Some unexpected character that “no one” saw coming
5: Black Shadow (Cpt. Falcon Echo)

Simon kinda covers the retro part nicely.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Decided to update my final prediction roster. This one probably seems more likely. Spoiled since I don't want to feel like I'm spamming.

Base:
Newcomers:
Bandana Dee
Geno
Retro Rep or Rhythm Heaven Rep (Chorus Kids or Karate Joe)
Pokemon Gen 7 Rep (Likely Incineroar)
Skull Kid

Echo Fighters:
Black Knight
Dixie Kong
Isabelle
Shadow

DLC:
Newcomers:
Banjo-Kazooie
Isaac
Namco Rep (Agumon, Heihachi, Lloyd or Nightmare)
Rex & Pyra

Echo Fighters:
Felix/Matthew
Ken
Medusa (Sakurai bias be damned)
Octoling

This is my now my official final prediction list.
 
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cybersai

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New predictions since we may get a direct this month. I think there's 4 newcomers left:

1. Incineroar (or any recent Pokemon, doesn't matter who)
2. Skull Kid
3. Geno
4. Isaac (if not him, I can't think of anyone else besides something like Chorus Kids or Elma)

Then 4 remaining echoes, which are obvious ones:

- Dixie
- Isabelle
- Shadow
- Ken

Would be shocked if those 4 don't get in.
 

Misery Brick

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2. Almost the same case as Dixie but you can just change Shadow's running animation and give him a teleport instead of the spring to make it make sense and work. While Tails is more deserving, Shadow's more iconic to Smash and Nintendo as a whole not only because of being a repeat AT but also because Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was the game that ended the decade long SEGA vs Nintendo rivalry.

3. Isabelle is too big of a character to be totally left on the sidelines this time around. Pretty much went from side character to regularly appearing in commercials and cameos with Nintendo's biggest franchises like Mario and Kirby after one freakin' game, nevermind the multiple spin-offs that New Leaf inspired and the monstrous amount of merch that Isabelle now has. She's roughly 5 years old and regularly makes top 10 lists in favorite Nintendo character polls; that's a big deal. Despite this, it's hard to say whether she will be unique or not but it's practically guaranteed she'll be playable.
I've talked a bit on this before, but the line of thinking for an Up-B switch for Shadow could literally go for Tails as he's a clone of Sonic in the classic games outside of his animations and flying abilities, which is what Chrom is to Roy and the other echo variants to the base characters.
If Shadow was a 1:1 clone like Daisy and Dark Pit, sure given there's not much to change between the characters outside the basic quotas we've seen with them so far.
But overall Tails is the iconic P2 character to Sonic, and is ingrained in gaming history and pop culture so I think he'd be the character before any other ancillary Sonic characters.
I mean look with Castlevania, despite most of the moveset belonging to Richter, Simon is the base character while he's the echo. Sakurai definitely cares more about seniority over popularity. That isn't to say that he won't try to fulfill both though.

On the topic of Isabelle, I personally think she has a 50% chance on inclusion.
Despite her being the face of the franchise, during the E3 direct he said Zelda got her ALBW design because her BOTW incarnation wasn't suited for fighting.
While this could be just an excuse as he prefers the design more, it is a possible hint.

Also on the topic of both characters, he said that over 50 assist trophies are going to make it into the game, so there is a very likely possibility that they will both retain their statuses from Smash 4 as they're just ported over.
 

zferolie

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I've talked a bit on this before, but the line of thinking for an Up-B switch for Shadow could literally go for Tails as he's a clone of Sonic in the classic games outside of his animations and flying abilities, which is what Chrom is to Roy and the other echo variants to the base characters.
If Shadow was a 1:1 clone like Daisy and Dark Pit, sure given there's not much to change between the characters outside the basic quotas we've seen with them so far.
But overall Tails is the iconic P2 character to Sonic, and is ingrained in gaming history and pop culture so I think he'd be the character before any other ancillary Sonic characters.
I mean look with Castlevania, despite most of the moveset belonging to Richter, Simon is the base character while he's the echo. Sakurai definitely cares more about seniority over popularity. That isn't to say that he won't try to fulfill both though.

On the topic of Isabelle, I personally think she has a 50% chance on inclusion.
Despite her being the face of the franchise, during the E3 direct he said Zelda got her ALBW design because her BOTW incarnation wasn't suited for fighting.
While this could be just an excuse as he prefers the design more, it is a possible hint.

Also on the topic of both characters, he said that over 50 assist trophies are going to make it into the game, so there is a very likely possibility that they will both retain their statuses from Smash 4 as they're just ported over.
We don't know that Daisy is a 1:1 clone. She has the same B moves it seems like but she could be like a Lucina level clone instead of a Dark Pit clone.

I think with BOTW Zelda we barely saw her use any magic, other then sealing magic. ALBW is known to be a more skilled mage, thus could be more fitted for the classic zelda fighting style. of BOTW Zelda was in I would think she would use a lot of different attacks, like using Relic weapons or the shiek slate a lot.


Isn’t Tails deconfirmed with Green Hill Zone?
Ever since Toon link has been shown to be in the back ground but could leave it if playable, I never think seeing someone in the background doing nothing but showing up is a deconfirmation. Only if they are a key part of the stage, like Kamak in Mario Land, or Ridley in Pyrosphere, or Paulina from the Odyssey stage, would I deconfirm them
 
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Misery Brick

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We don't know that Daisy is a 1:1 clone. She has the same B moves it seems like but she could be like a Lucina level clone instead of a Dark Pit clone.

I think with BOTW Zelda we barely saw her use any magic, other then sealing magic. ALBW is known to be a more skilled mage, thus could be more fitted for the classic zelda fighting style. of BOTW Zelda was in I would think she would use a lot of different attacks, like using Relic weapons or the shiek slate a lot.




Ever since Toon link has been shown to be in the back ground but could leave it if playable, I never think seeing someone in the background doing nothing but showing up is a deconfirmation. Only if they are a key part of the stage, like Kamak in Mario Land, or Ridley in Pyrosphere, or Paulina from the Odyssey stage, would I deconfirm them
Well that's what I meant, in terms of moveset.
As far as we do know, is that she mostly has the same specials. The only one I think we haven't seen is her neutral B, but it's likely the same move just with different properties.

As for BOTW, I never got around to getting through the bulk of the main story so I didn't know about that, so that'd make a lot more sense as they wouldn't have wanted to rework Zelda.
So that's definitely not a point against Isabelle's favor then.
Isn’t Tails deconfirmed with Green Hill Zone?
Not to mention that Knuckles and King Dedede are still both in backgrounds of stages from previous games, despite them being an AT and a character respectively.
So I don't think that would count against Tails at all.
 

StormC

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Not to mention that Knuckles and King Dedede are still both in backgrounds of stages from previous games, despite them being an AT and a character respectively.
So I don't think that would count against Tails at all.
We have no precedence for new characters being introduced as background elements first. Doesn't mean he can't be DLC though.
 

zferolie

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Well that's what I meant, in terms of moveset.
As far as we do know, is that she mostly has the same specials. The only one I think we haven't seen is her neutral B, but it's likely the same move just with different properties.

As for BOTW, I never got around to getting through the bulk of the main story so I didn't know about that, so that'd make a lot more sense as they wouldn't have wanted to rework Zelda.
So that's definitely not a point against Isabelle's favor then.

Not to mention that Knuckles and King Dedede are still both in backgrounds of stages from previous games, despite them being an AT and a character respectively.
So I don't think that would count against Tails at all.
I think we have seen her use B, but not sure if we have seen her use Down b.... could be wrong though
 

Misery Brick

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We have no precedence for new characters being introduced as background elements first. Doesn't mean he can't be DLC though.
That's what I was referring to with King Dedede, he's still in a previous stage despite being a character in a game where he's present. However, Dreamland 64 wasn't in Brawl so I guess in that regard that's true.
Still doesn't mean it can't happen though, just may make it seem a bit more unlikely.
 

AquaSol

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A few months ago, I believed there was no way that King K. Rool would get in without Dixie Kong. He may have the popularity, but I wondered if Sakurai would add him without thinking about Dixie. She is relevant and popular, and the advent of echoes boosts her chances. However, I'm beginning to second guess myself. There is no serious evidence towards her inclusion right now. From what I saw in Diddy's character video, his tail attack isn't necessarily removed. I have trouble seeing her as a shoo-in, but I think that her chances are pretty high.

I truly don't believe that there are any shoo-ins besides Shadow. For unique newcomers, I still think that Skull Kid, Incineroar, Geno, and Rhythm Heaven (yes, I'm serious about that last one) all have the best chances. After them comes Isaac, Banjo, and Bandana Dee. Lately, I've realized that I really want Golisopod though. He'd be such a cool Pokemon rep, but I doubt it's happening :ohwell:
 
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