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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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For me Crash and Doomguy share equal chances alongside any other pick.

If none or just one of them is Fighter 5, the other will highly likely be part of the post-pass DLC.
 

NoOtherPersona

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I've addressed the argument about the characters being based on actual people multiple times.

Yes, a lot of the characters in both series are indeed those that existed in real life. However, Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors are video game franchises. Sure, they may be based off of actual historical events (and in Dynasty Warriors case, the ROTK novel), but they didn't start off as a manga series like Dragon Ball did or start off as a comic book series like Batman. The Warriors franchise have relatively stayed as a video game franchise, and the characters that are based on real people are Koei's version of them, which to me makes them distinct enough to be considered more of a video game character than someone like Batman from the Arkham games.

The argument against them would pretty much fall in line with the "Sora might not be considered a video game character" argument that was happening last night, except this might actually fit more with the Warriors franchises than Kingdom Hearts. If Nintendo doesn't view Dynasty Warriors, a video game series that is only based off of a very old novel set in the Three Kingdoms period of China and nothing more, a video game franchise, then it'll probably be blacklisted in Smash. However, we'll never know if this is actually the case since Nintendo won't be bothered to answer a question like that anyways, so as far as I'm concerned, a Warriors character in Smash is a possibility.
Meh it's interesting but i'd rather them choose the one with history to Nintendo but that's just me
 

YoshiandToad

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Well his reveal trailer would HAVE to have him removing his backpack/switching it for a smaller one, because you NEED to be able to jump in Smash.
But, contrary to popular belief...

He can jump!

Just really poorly!

That said I can now envision him removing it like Kid Goku and Kid Krillin remove their turtle shells in early Dragon ball, now obtaining Toad's traditional super speed.

This is all part of his training...

...Ultra Instinct Kinipio incoming.
 
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IceKitsune

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Everyone is talking about Crash Bandicoot getting in while I'm over here wanting Spyro. Do you guys really think that Crash has that much better of a chance than Spyro? Or are they about equal in likelihood? Because I think at best its completely 50/50 between them I just think Spyro would be more interesting as a character than Crash.
 

merchantofsalt

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About Terry being Fatal Fury, not KOF: Ryo Sakazaki appears in the background of Terry's stage. Ryo is from Art of Fighting. Both Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury were incorporated into The King of Fighters. It's a KOF stage. We'll probably get KOF music and cameos.
 

osby

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For me Crash and Doomguy share equal chances alongside any other pick.

If none or just one of them is Fighter 5, the other will highly likely be part of the post-pass DLC.
Saying every character has the same chance of getting into Smash is a little silly, especially considering there's a good reason to say Crash is more likely due to his popularity in Japan unlike Doom.

Also, how does one character's absence makes an unrelated character more likely? It doesn't mske much sense.
 

SKX31

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I still do lean towards Western third parties being an exception rather than the rule going into future DLC. I know they've dominated a lot of speculation, but this Fighter's Pass still communicates just how intent Sakurai is on representing Japanese gaming above all else by including Atlus, Enix (of Square Enix), and SNK with a very strong likelihood that Fighter #5 will also come from a Japanese developer/publisher. Banjo & Kazooie are our first Western third party, and they've obviously got extenuating circumstances since they were still first produced under the watchful eye of Nintendo. We've yet to get a full on Western rep and Sakurai has reiterated in the past how he does want Japanese gaming represented in Smash. I'm thinking we might get one, maybe two Western reps, but I don't expect them to start suddenly dominating DLC either, and even then, I expect them to generally be ones that hold more sway in Japan like Crash Bandicoot and (sort of) Sora.

I know Doom Slayer gets a lot of talk, and as iconic as he is here, Doom isn't nearly the same powerhouse in Japan. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the game... but I'm also not as confident as many people seem to be.
I only have one caveat, and that's what Shuntaro Furukawa (Nintendo's President) thinks. I definetely think Furukawa's underrated here - his goals are pretty much to build up Nintendo's presence everywhere they can step by step, just like they did with the primary regions (Japan, NA, EU). He is already trying to grow Nintendo's fanbases in places like China and elsewhere. Sure it'll take years, but Ultimate's DLC could be the place to speed it along.

One can view SNK's (and Sans') inclusion in this light. If I wanted to be absurdly technical I'd say that Terry's our first "Chinese" character (SNK's owners, after all) but the owners no doubt played a major role in the negotiations. I've also suspected that SNK got help from their partners at Tencent - convieniently enough there's Tencent's collab with Nintendo too... the rabbit hole goes too deep.

Of course it comes down to what Sakurai and Furukawa agree on, but we have no clue as to what they'll agree on. Sakurai is a VIP (in the real sense), so if Sakurai keeps to his intent I'm inclined to believe Furukawa will listen to that.
 

EricTheGamerman

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I REALLY liked the way they did it this time.

"The previous new character is being released today. Here's the trailer for the NEXT new character. Also, there's a separate Smash Direct afterwards for all the deep dive stuff so we don't eat up a bunch of time during the Nintendo Direct."
I agree and this is how I think they should have done it from the start. It would have saved everybody a whole lot of trouble in the post-Joker period if we knew Hero was coming. I think it's great to drop one character and make sure the next one is known so there's always a consistent momentum to the DLC and the fans always know what is coming next and more specifically, when the next thing is coming. It keeps Sakurai from having to have too many hard deadlines to work with like a full season announcement with carefully planned dates, but also works to communicate with the player base at all times. I hope that continues... but there is a chance that we have to wait from Terry's release to The Game Awards depending on who Fighter #5 is/how Nintendo want to play things this year.

Sakurai be like : "Yo what if I made Doom popular in Japan :surprised::surprised::surprised:"
lmao
Just saying the promotion thingy can go either way lol
The issue is that the entire FPS genre really struggles in Japan. This isn't just one game in a series or a genre that's well liked not catching on, I mean the West's main genre of games these days just does not translate to Japan it seems. I don't know if any amount of Doom Slayer or Master Chief in Smash is going to be able to change Japan's fundamental outlook on FPS games...
 
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Meh it's interesting but i'd rather them choose the one with history to Nintendo but that's just me
That's fair. I'm sure a lot of people would want Hayabusa more than an actual Warriors character since Ninja Gaiden did originate around the NES era.

Though I have to say the music in both Warriors games are amazing, and if it weren't for Warriors Orochi 3, we would've never gotten this remix of Unbreakable Determination.


I'd like to see whoever's in charge of arranging Ninja Gaiden music in Smash top that if Hayabusa is in.
 

cothero

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Please, god, just make it look like Dragon Ball FighterZ...

The news is Smash Bros X Fatal Fury, not King of Fighters. So Terry might not come with KoF music.

It should be noted that the tournament in the Fatal Fury series is ALSO called The King Of Fighters tournament. So the stage still might not have anything to do with the KoF games.
They didn't teased KoF music in Terry's trailer for nothing. As a huge SNK fan i can tell that KoF music is pretty iconic and memorable, as KoF is SNK'S most important franchise. It wouldn't make sense not to put KoF songs in a KoF based stage, since it's a huge universe that englobes characters from various franchises (Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting, Psycho Soldier, Ikari Warriors, Samurai Shodown, etc). Fatal Fury music is OK, but it doesn't reach the greatness of KoF's songs.
 
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SNEKeater

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I think it's a given we will have some KoF music, and I really hope that's the case, but I also want some music from Capcom vs. SNK. I want to have bangers like This is true Love in the Makin' or Stimulation.

Everyone is talking about Crash Bandicoot getting in while I'm over here wanting Spyro. Do you guys really think that Crash has that much better of a chance than Spyro? Or are they about equal in likelihood? Because I think at best its completely 50/50 between them I just think Spyro would be more interesting as a character than Crash.
No offense but Spyro has nothing to do against Crash. I mean, Spyro is cool and I like him, but Crash is bigger in all senses: more known, more popular in general, and has a decente fanbase in Japan. As far as I know Spyro's like a Ridley 2.0 in Japan, and while it's a popular character outside of Japan I doubt he has enough following in USA/Europa of characters like Doomslayer to compensate his low presence in Japan.
Maybe we will see both in Smash someday but the first getting in will be Crash if it happens.
 
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merchantofsalt

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Rare and Microsoft aren't Japanese, so this argument is baseless.
I forgot to address Banjo. I think most people see Banjo as an exceptional Western addition on account of how heavily-requested he was. This is the Smash game where Ridley and K. Rool were finally included, so clearly Sakurai is trying to meet all expectations. But I have no reason to believe we'll get another Western DLC character.
 

NoOtherPersona

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That's fair. I'm sure a lot of people would want Hayabusa more than an actual Warriors character since Ninja Gaiden did originate around the NES era.

Though I have to say the music in both Warriors games are amazing, and if it weren't for Warriors Orochi 3, we would've never gotten this remix of Unbreakable Determination.


I'd like to see whoever's in charge of arranging Ninja Gaiden music in Smash top that if Hayabusa is in.
I won't lie to too you and say the music isn't great I love the games I'm just not attached to anyone from the series but the music is epic
 

RileyXY1

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I forgot to address Banjo. I think most people see Banjo as an exceptional Western addition on account of how heavily-requested he was. This is the Smash game where Ridley and K. Rool were finally included, so clearly Sakurai is trying to meet all expectations. But I have no reason to believe we'll get another Western DLC character.
Why not? There's quite a few Western third party companies that have great relationships with Nintendo now, such as Ubisoft and Bethesda.
 

RileyXY1

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But is sakurai willing to deal with them that is the question
Going to Microsoft for Banjo shows that he can, especially considering that Microsoft is a competitor to Nintendo in the console market. Ubisoft outright included Nintendo characters in their own games twice since the Switch launched, and Bethesda included BOTW Link's outfit in the Switch version of Skyrim.
 

merchantofsalt

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I know.
Why not? There's quite a few Western third party companies that have great relationships with Nintendo now, such as Ubisoft and Bethesda.
I know, but would Sakurai reach out to them before Namco, Capcom, Sega? I think if Bethesda or Blizzard took the initiative it might happen, but even then...
 

The_Naraotor

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I think the more likely to be in smash are:

-Sora
-Steve
-Crash
-Doomguy/Slayer
-Dante
-Geno
-2B

Though in first party I would love to have a F-Zero Villain like Black Shadow or Deathborn. F-Zero being the only remaining OG Nintendo series to don't have its villain.
 

NoOtherPersona

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Going to Microsoft for Banjo shows that he can, especially considering that Microsoft is a competitor to Nintendo in the console market. Ubisoft outright included Nintendo characters in their own games twice since the Switch launched, and Bethesda included BOTW Link's outfit in the Switch version of Skyrim.
Microsoft is the exception obviously but is he willing to deal with more American companies
 

TheCJBrine

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Though in first party I would love to have a F-Zero Villain like Black Shadow or Deathborn. F-Zero being the only remaining OG Nintendo series to don't have its villain.
EarthBound doesn’t have its villain, either.

Microsoft is the exception obviously but is he willing to deal with more American companies
There’s nothing saying he won’t.

Technically he also made deals with Yacht Games and WayForward (smaller companies but still).
 
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Rie Sonomura

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I think the more likely to be in smash are:

-Sora
-Steve
-Crash
-Doomguy/Slayer
-Dante
-Geno
-2B

Though in first party I would love to have a F-Zero Villain like Black Shadow or Deathborn. F-Zero being the only remaining OG Nintendo series to don't have its villain.
EarthBound and Yoshi: “Am I a joke to you?”

In seriousness though I do think we’d sooner see Black Shadow or Deathborn than Porky, Giygas or uhhhh Wart (he’s a Yoshi villain right??) especially if F-Zero makes a comeback soon, be it remaster or new game. Ppl have been clamoring for F-Zero to return, whereas EarthBound is straight up finished and Yoshi is just kind of... there
 
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SKX31

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I know.


I know, but would Sakurai reach out to them before Namco, Capcom, Sega? I think if Bethesda or Blizzard took the initiative it might happen, but even then...
While I do agree with EricTheGamerman EricTheGamerman in the very general sense, Sakurai also looks far and wide. He's praised Half Life 2 and Halo 2 in the past, and those are not games he finds easily in Japan. Not in 2004, before Youtube / Niconico exitsted. Sure there were video sharing sites back then, but they were kinda awkward to use (and find).

Hell, the Toby Fox meeting could serve as a counterpoint. How many people saw Sans as a serious contender before his Mii costume showed up? Who knows, maybe he's met people like IceFrog (Dota and Dota 2's main developer since 2005, himself - presumably - a major fan of games like A Link to the Past, Final Fantasy 7 and 10, and Phantasy Star Online)?
 
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DarthEnderX

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About Terry being Fatal Fury, not KOF: Ryo Sakazaki appears in the background of Terry's stage. Ryo is from Art of Fighting. Both Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury were incorporated into The King of Fighters. It's a KOF stage. We'll probably get KOF music and cameos.
Probably. But it should be noted thar Ryo is ALSO a Fatal Fury character(he was in Fatal Fury 2), and that Art of Fighting has ALWAYS been in the same continuity as Fatal Fury(The AoF games take place about a decade before the FF games).

Whereas King of Fighting takes place in it's own alternate continuity, separate from those two series.

Not saying we won't get KoF content. We probably will, but it's possible we might only get Fatal Fury stuff.

I want to have bangers like This is true Love in the Makin'
Okay now, some things even Smash can't contain!
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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Microsoft is the exception obviously but is he willing to deal with more American companies
Technically he went through both Rare Ltd. and Microsoft and said that Microsoft was HAPPY to offer Banjo and that Rare welcomed them with open arms. I think the meetings they had went very, very well so his reluctance to deal with Western Companies has probably subsided, if was ever even there in the first place.

And Bethesda has went on record and said they've talked to them, their support is ongoing and shows no sign of stopping, and I'm sure after Skyrim and Doom being some of the first games announced for Switch so early on they're probably at the top of the list of companies they're looking at for the nex Pass.
 

The_Naraotor

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EarthBound and Yoshi: “Am I a joke to you?”

In seriousness though I do think we’d sooner see Black Shadow or Deathborn than Porky, Giygas or uhhhh Wart (he’s a Yoshi villain right??) especially if F-Zero makes a comeback soon, be it remaster or new game. Ppl have been clamoring for F-Zero to return, whereas EarthBound is straight up finished and Yoshi is just kind of... there
That's crazy because I think both earthbound and F-Zero can make a big return with todays new possibilities in technology. For F-Zero the thing is that this game should evolve and not be only a racing game but takes some adventure outside the traks, after all Captain Falcon is a bounty hunter. F-Zero can took inspiration from GTA for example but instead of a criminal you are a Bounty Hunter hero make that semi open world and still have the beloved race track if you want to compete for trophies.

But I digress for Overwatch if the game come out with Nintendo outfit for the character like a Metroid Suit for Phara ? Are this a hint for Tracer to be more likely to join Smash ?
 
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Saying every character has the same chance of getting into Smash is a little silly, especially considering there's a good reason to say Crash is more likely due to his popularity in Japan unlike Doom.

Also, how does one character's absence makes an unrelated character more likely? It doesn't mske much sense.
It’s not the abscense, but rather that I feel both are happening no matter the circumstances.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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Probably. But it should be noted thar Ryo is ALSO a Fatal Fury character(he was in Fatal Fury 2), and that Art of Fighting has ALWAYS been in the same continuity as Fatal Fury(The AoF games take place about a decade before the FF games).

Whereas King of Fighting takes place in it's own alternate continuity, separate from those two series.

Not saying we won't get KoF content. We probably will, but it's possible we might only get Fatal Fury stuff.

Okay now, some things even Smash can't contain!
I mean we already HAVE KoF content with the Stage. I'm sure that counts in telling us what we're likely to get.
 

ze9

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Treating the "no western characters" thing as a rule when Banjo just came out feels a bit disingenous to me. I know Banjo's a special case, but... Who else could the first western character have been?
 

EricTheGamerman

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I only have one caveat, and that's what Shuntaro Furukawa (Nintendo's President) thinks. I definetely think Furukawa's underrated here - his goals are pretty much to build up Nintendo's presence everywhere they can step by step, just like they did with the primary regions (Japan, NA, EU). He is already trying to grow Nintendo's fanbases in places like China and elsewhere. Sure it'll take years, but Ultimate's DLC could be the place to speed it along.

One can view SNK's (and Sans') inclusion in this light. If I wanted to be absurdly technical I'd say that Terry's our first "Chinese" character (SNK's owners, after all) but the owners no doubt played a major role in the negotiations. I've also suspected that SNK got help from their partners at Tencent - convieniently enough there's Tencent's collab with Nintendo too... the rabbit hole goes too deep.

Of course it comes down to what Sakurai and Furukawa agree on, but we have no clue as to what they'll agree on. Sakurai is a VIP (in the real sense), so if Sakurai keeps to his intent I'm inclined to believe Furukawa will listen to that.
A lot of popular franchises in other regions still come from Japan though as evidenced by something like SNK being included. I don't know if there are a ton of Western made franchises that manage the same popularity in other parts of the world, except for maybe parts of Europe in some cases. I guess the Western market feels a bit more insular than the Japanese market on average, though, I don't have the data to make those definitive claims. Something like Undertale being so successful in Japan again is more of the exception and not the rule from what I've seen.

Going to Microsoft for Banjo shows that he can, especially considering that Microsoft is a competitor to Nintendo in the console market. Ubisoft outright included Nintendo characters in their own games twice since the Switch launched, and Bethesda included BOTW Link's outfit in the Switch version of Skyrim.
I think the more likely to be in smash are:

-Sora
-Steve
-Crash
-Doomguy/Slayer
-Dante
-Geno
-2B
2B hasn't really appeared on a Nintendo console, so I don't think she quite fits with the others. I mean Sakurai did praise Nier Automata, so that is a point in her favor for sure, but she just seems a little bit removed still.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I'm hoping the next wave of DLC focuses more on first party characters.
I feel like that's unlikely since Sakurai wants to "keep pushing the record forward" which tells me he wants even more companies on board and that he wants "to introduce more worlds". Sure, you can say that we're reading to much into his words but we did the same thing with Reggie at The Game Awards and we were right. I think we're getting another 3rd Party passes.

Which really isn't a bad thing... at all. I think it's actually better. I mean think about all the characters that can be added.

Doom Slayer
Dragonborn
Crash
Spyro
Ryu Hayabusa
Leon Kennedy
Monster Hunter
Lloyd
Heihachi
Chosen Undead
Lara Croft

And that's just off the top of my head. And like, off the top of my head the 1st parties that are widely requested.

Isaac
Krystal
Waluigi
Bandanna Dee

And all of them are pretty damn obscure in the grand scheme of things. As much as I would LOVE to upgrade Isaac to a character I don't think 1st parties are the focus this next time either.
 

Rie Sonomura

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That's crazy because I think both earthbound and F-Zero can make a big return with todays new possibilities in technology. For F-Zero the thing is that this game should evolve and not be only a racing game but takes some adventure outside the traks, after all Captain Falcon is a bounty hunter. F-Zero can took inspiration from GTA for example but instead of a criminal you are a Bounty Hunter hero make that semi open world and still have the beloved race track if you want to compete for trophies.

But I digress for Overwatch if the game come out with Nintendo outfit for the character like a Metroid Suit for Phara ? Are this a hint for Tracer to be more likely to join Smash ?
Shigesato Itoi, EarthBound’s creator, said he was finished with EarthBound after Mother 3, like it was intended to be the ending for the series. He says someone else could reboot the series or something but it arguably wouldn’t be the same without Itoi.
 

merchantofsalt

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There are many Japanese IPs that are very popular in Japan and only niche or virtually unknown everywhere else, not to mention all the games that simply aren't localized. I do think that Sakurai will go for Japanese characters with a degree of international appeal. Conversely, Banjo is a Western character that's also liked in Japan. This is why I think that franchises like Mortal Kombat or, I dunno, Tokimeki Memorial aren't gonna happen.

I wonder if Sakurai knows how enduringly popular KOF is in Latin America?
 

Michael the Spikester

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2B hasn't really appeared on a Nintendo console, so I don't think she quite fits with the others. I mean Sakurai did praise Nier Automata, so that is a point in her favor for sure, but she just seems a little bit removed still.
Neither had Dante though besides crossovers like Project X until the the Switch with his games being ported
 

Nquoid

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What would people say the chances of a western character who was popular in other regions? So far most of speculation is about popular characters like Crash, who have some evidence for being popular else where but are still very much a US/European want first and foremost
 
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