Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[TheCJBrine]

No, Cacomallow was, is and always will be fake.
I've seen someone showing screenshot of an hat that was identical to the one in the "leak" and confirming that it was modded. The person claimed that it was not the actual thing, it was a copy, but it was perfectly identical to polygon level and the "glitch" they were pointing out as proof that it was impossible to fully recreate it was instead the Mii's black hair clipping through the hat's model and not really a glitch.

I think the leak may be fake, however from all the Mallow hats I remember, I only remember one being almost identical, and it still wasn't the same due to a bit different proportions and a couple of details not being quite right, showing it was just a troll. If I'm thinking of the same one you're thinking of, it was a Smash 4 port that didn't look like the leaked one at all aside from looking like Mallow.

Of course it is possible to mod them in though so I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Do we know how connected the Smash x Minecraft presentation will be to Minecon? If it's especially close or connected, the whole thing could be entirely Minecraft connected, without other IP showing up as Mii costumes.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Though if you'd like, you can show me that screenshot

It was here on Smashboards in some very old discussion.

The image is blurry but you can perfectly see how the horns and tooths have the same polygonal shape, the vertices in the same position and all. They maybe changed the pivot/origin point of the model so the head of the mii clips more through it, but it's impossible to hide how the model is perfectly identical and nobody would make such a maniacal work for a random test.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

No worries. Sorry if I seemed terse, but Splatoon seems to be the example to which everyone wants to hold up new IPs, despite the level of its success being very atypical.

It's basically like wondering why all Nintendo series can't be triple-A titles out of the gate.

Even if you're wording was terse, I believe that helps get your points across clearly and concisely. You and Shroob both excel in this; it makes it a lot easier to hear out your points instead of sifting through paragraphs. I struggle with brevity, and always wind up rambling on.

Anyway, I believe the reason I, and others, compared ARMS to Splatoon is just because Splatoon is one of the most recent Nintendo IPs to be established. Once again, this is likely ignorance speaking, but I can't remember other Nintendo IPs that were recently established and are well-known. But, the comparison itself, as you pointed out, is nonsensical because Splatoon is more akin to catching lightning in a bottle.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Do we know how connected the Smash x Minecraft presentation will be to Minecon? If it's especially close or connected, the whole thing could be entirely Minecraft connected, without other IP showing up as Mii costumes.

It's going to air and finish just before Minecraft Live starts; idk if Minecraft Live itself will show anything though.

It was here on Smashboards in some very old discussion.

The image is blurry but you can perfectly see how the horns and tooths have the same polygonal shape, the vertices in the same position and all. They maybe changed the pivot/origin point of the model so the head of the mii clips more through it, but it's impossible to hide how the model is perfectly identical and nobody would make such a maniacal work for a random test.

I remember this one; it also has a few wrong details. The eye, at least couple of spikes, and the width of the mouth aren't right, though I guess it doesn't matter since, assuming it does end up being real, they could still be recreated by fans.

Personally I'm just gonna wait 'til Steve's mii costumes to consider it dead. I'm already thinking it's fake anyway tbh.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Just a friendly reminder that Cacomallow had a debug timer that didn't match the one from the leak we know was true. So for Cacomallow to be real, the Smash team would have had to change the debug timer post-release of the game.

I for one find that incredibly unlikely.

 

[Perkilator]

Quick Mii Costume prediction list for Friday:

• Creeper Hat
• Hunter Armor (Swordfighter)
• Rathalos Armor (Swordfighter)
• Cadence (Swordfighter)

Here’s my list:

1. Creeper Hat (Universal)
2. Officer’s Academy Uniform (Swordfighter)
3. Rathalos Armor (Swordfighter)
4. Wedding Mario (Brawler)
5. Master Chief (Gunner)

 

[RetroBro]

It was here on Smashboards in some very old discussion.

The image is blurry but you can perfectly see how the horns and tooths have the same polygonal shape, the vertices in the same position and all. They maybe changed the pivot/origin point of the model so the head of the mii clips more through it, but it's impossible to hide how the model is perfectly identical and nobody would make such a maniacal work for a random test.

Isn't the only point of discussion that keeps any thread of the Cacomallow leak alive is that you can't create the same jiggle physics from the Mallow hat?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yes, thank you, all you lovely, exhausting pedants.

You're very welcome.

2020 Me: "Yeah, and I main Cup Head Sans and Vault Boy Callie!"

2018 Me: "You what now?"

2018 Me: Oh man, there's gonna be so many newcomers! Who are we gonna main in 2020?

2020 Me: still ness lol

 

[SharkLord]

I think the leak may be fake, however from all the Mallow hats I remember, I only remember one being almost identical, and it still wasn't the same due to a bit different proportions and a couple of details not being quite right, showing it was just a troll. If I'm thinking of the same one you're thinking of, it was a Smash 4 port that didn't look like the leaked one at all aside from looking like Mallow.

Of course it is possible to mod them in though so I guess it doesn't really matter.

I don't think the CacoMallow hats have to be a perfect 1:1 to any other hats to say they're fake. Obviously, we can't get a perfect recreation unless they were just up and ripped from a mod site, and if they were we'd have noticed that by now. The thing is, who's gonna spend all that time and effort just to prove some random 4chan leak fake? It'd be hard to find someone with the time, skill, and drive to create two high-quality Mii models just to do that.

 

[Perkilator]

2020 Me: "Yeah, and I main Cup Head Sans and Vault Boy Callie!"

2018 Me: "You what now?"

2018 me: “Wow, I wonder if Sora will ever show up once DLC starts!”

2020 me: “We can only hope, because Vol. 2 only has four slots left.”

2018 me: “Vol. what now?”

 

[Guybrush20X6]

2018 me: Man, if Everyone came back and Ridley got in then Krystal must be coming soon.

2020 me: ...

2018 me: You went quiet.

2020 me: I told you about the 'rona, you've got enought to worry about!

 

[cashregister9]

Quick Mii Costume prediction list for Friday:

• Creeper Hat
• Hunter Armor (Swordfighter)
• Rathalos Armor (Swordfighter)
• Cadence (Swordfighter)

This is mine I added 1 more

-Creeper Hat
-Gil
-Rathalos Armor
-Freddy Fazbear Mask
-Master Chief

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Overall, do you guys think the timing of Steve's announcement was okay for the most part? Can't begin to imagine the rage that would ensue if he were announced last in the pass.

 

[MooMew64]

Honestly, I typically avoid CacoMallow 'cause to me there just isn't much to discuss, but I'll say this one last thing:

If there is nothing this Saturday that even looks remotely similar to what was in that leak, it, in my opinion, is done. It should have already been done, but now it's gonna be done done.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

2018 me: "These characters are cool and all, but don't think I've quite found my character yet."

2020 me: "Funny you say that..."

 

[CannonStreak]

I don’t understand why many seem to hate Steve in Smash. I mean, he may have been unexpected, but he still looks fun. Why all the complaints?

 

[N3ON]

Even if you're wording was terse, I believe that helps get your points across clearly and concisely. You and Shroob both excel in this; it makes it a lot easier to hear out your points instead of sifting through paragraphs. I struggle with brevity, and always wind up rambling on.

Ah well thank you for the nice feedback and in that case don't scroll back a few pages to see when it took me like ten paragraphs to articulate how Steve wasn't for me.

Anyway, I believe the reason I, and others, compared ARMS to Splatoon is just because Splatoon is one of the most recent Nintendo IPs to be established. Once again, this is likely ignorance speaking, but I can't remember other Nintendo IPs that were recently established and are well-known. But, the comparison itself, as you pointed out, is nonsensical because Splatoon is more akin to catching lightning in a bottle.

I get that. You don't want to look too far back or the examples may not be contemporary enough to apply. Like Duck Hunt. But I think the better tact is trying to see how Nintendo treated other games/series that performed around the same level, even if that means going a little further back.

Though to be fair, it does seem like in the DS to Wii U age, Nintendo did have trouble finding new IPs that clicked with people and weren't targeted towards the transient "blue ocean" audience. There are only a handful that perpetuated.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Overall, do you guys think the timing of Steve's announcement was okay for the most part? Can't begin to imagine the rage that would ensue if he were announced last in the pass.

I think it's perfect; I was thinking Geno should show up earlier if he's in, but now I don't care as much although I still really want Geno too. I am very happy with Steve showing up today however as he was still my #1 up there with Banjo & Kazooie, and getting revealed just a couple days before Minecraft Live also fits very well, and tbh I'm mostly satisfied with Smash inclusions now with my other wants just being icing on the cake (although I still hope Geno makes it as he's also very cool and I liked SMRPG and how he was in the game alongside Mallow and others, and his longtime fans deserve it imo).

 

[SKX31]

Listen, people have to stop comparing new IPs to Splatoon. Because Splatoon is not the benchmark for how new IPs should perform. It performed far far in excess of expectations, and has surpassed 95% of other Nintendo series. It's not the barometer for success as much as it is for a phenomenon of sorts. In its two titles, it's sold around the entirety of the FE franchise.

2 million isn't missing the mark. That's very decent. That's entirely a success, especially for a new IP. That's basically what Kirby and Metroid do, on a good day. There are many Nintendo IPs that haven't reached that level, or take many titles to do so.

ARMS does have shortcomings, but those mostly have to do with the content in the game, as opposed to the commercial performance. Perhaps Nintendo expected it to have better legs (heh), because the sales did fall off pretty drastically... but there's no way they're done trying with that franchise.

Beyond what Garteam noted:

I've personally been adamant about ARMS' legs (höh) in the past: ARMS existed in that strange limbo where it had an active hardcore... but that hardcore was not large enough for Nintendo to have confidence in the franchise initially, and most of those 2 million likely moved on once patches slowed down.

Which makes Min Min's inclusion and the promotions surrounding it interesting: I'm not entirely sure Nintendo's planning an ARMS 2, but they could certainly use it and Splatoon as trial balloons re: keeping a game alive for a long time.

Also:

2018 me: Think I found my character, Cloud.

2020 me: Damnit DLC has certainly introduced some annoying characters for my main Cloud, I enjoy the DLC choices and love the game still. (Those being , , , )

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Quick Mii Costume prediction list for Friday:

Dante (Devil May Cry)
Arle (Puyo Puyo)
Geno (Super Mario RPG)
Master Chief (Halo)
Crash Bandicoot
You (You)

 

[Trevenant]

Do we know how connected the Smash x Minecraft presentation will be to Minecon? If it's especially close or connected, the whole thing could be entirely Minecraft connected, without other IP showing up as Mii costumes.

I believe it's just before it starts. As much as I like Minecraft I certainly hope this isn't the case. They did kind of go all out with skins for Steve and it seems some of those were prime mii costume material if only it weren't for the fact that they are obviously skins. Namely the Zombie and Enderman since they pretty much have masks of those and I'm fairly certain there has been an officially branded Enderman costume (I believe it was in Minecraft: Story Mode... No clue if it was adapted into the actual game though). Still, there are others that work but I don't quite think they work quite as well as the iconic mobs who are already part of the costume spread

 

[GoodGrief741]

Overall, do you guys think the timing of Steve's announcement was okay for the most part? Can't begin to imagine the rage that would ensue if he were announced last in the pass.

Timing worked out great for me, if it had come on a later spot I'd have probably bought the Pass and regretted it when it was announced. As an E3 reveal it would have soured me on the whole presentation too, so really this was the ideal moment for the reveal as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TwiceEXE]

I don’t understand why many seem to hate Steve in Smash. I mean, he may have been unexpected, but he still looks fun. Why all the complaints?

Forum user learns that people have different opinions. More at 11.

I don't hate Steve and I haven't been complaining. It's just that there is simply nothing that interests me about this character so I'm disappointed.

 

[Garteam]

I don’t understand why many seem to hate Steve in Smash. I mean, he may have been unexpected, but he still looks fun. Why all the complaints?

A lot of it is the stigma around the brand in general internet communities and the character within the overall Smash community (Thanks 4chan Steve render!). Eccentric character ideas also tend to get a lot of hate at first, especially when there's a sense of "that was X's spot!" (see , , , and's initial reactions).

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don’t understand why many seem to hate Steve in Smash. I mean, he may have been unexpected, but he still looks fun. Why all the complaints?

I can't speak for everyone, but personally I like characters in Smash and I just don't see Steve as one.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I hate how much of a colossal failure Codename steam was.

When I played it I saw some serious potential for a good addition to smash but I know it's never going to happen because there's no incentive to do it.

Well, we technically do have Codename Steam characters in Smash.

 

[N3ON]

1999: wurs Banjo

2002: oh no not Banjo

2003-2015: wurs Isaac

November 12, 2015: CLOUD STRIFE

2015-2018: wurs Isaac

2019: oh look its Banjo

2020: guh-huh

2021: wurs Isaac

It's like poetry

 

[Super Devon]

So I haven't posted here at all today but like....

This is crazy, this insane, this is unreal, my thoughts are still processing ever since it happened.
This is the timeline we live in huh...

Also Smash ResetEra thread in shambles

 

[SpectreJordan]

Is it just me or has there really been very little salt than anticipated from this? I've seen some disappointment but otherwise nothing that significant.

I think most of the Steve hate in the past was because he was seen as Banjo’s “rival”.

The best part about Sans is that even though it's a Mii costume, it looks so good we're all okay with just calling him a fighter.

I know I said this earlier, but man, this game is actually the best.

This game is an absolute dream. I love it so much, it’s such a wonderful tribute to my passion.

Honestly in terms of references, Sakurai's probably outdone himself. Steve ****ing summons a bed when falling asleep and the trailer shows that Steve needs to mine for blocks and ore to build and craft with, representing all of the core game mechanics outside of hunger. It's just jawdropping how much genuine love was put in for everything

God damn, this game is so soulful. They didn’t have to do that, no one would’ve noticed. But they did anyway. It’s so wonderful.

Some thoughts from me about today's news, and what we may see on Saturday.

1) I am somebody who didn't think they'd add Steve. When I first saw how he looked, I cringed. He was jarring to look at in terms of movement, and the Enderman looked especially creepy with the tiny legs. However, Minecraft is a huge series and fits right in with series like Zelda, Mario, Sonic, and Final Fantasy. I will be joining a Minecraft server with friends to try it out...I've never played it before.

Enjoy man! Minecraft is one of the best games ever, especially in multiplayer. I’ve put hundreds of hours into it & I still keep coming back.

Folks with Disney connections from Resetera are saying that Nintendo approached Disney for Sora, but the price to acquire the licensing dwarfed the costs to even get Cloud.

Damn, that’s really disappointing. But it atleast shows that Nintendo is going after more bombshells on top of Steve.

Maybe Nintendo walked away from that meeting with Disney & called Microsoft for the triple dip?

I hope Saturday doesn’t kill the Master Chief dream by making him a Mii costume lmao

 

[PacificFun]

Its kind of crazy to think that all of this started from here:

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Would you guys prefer a Master Chief Mii costume as the obvious Gunner, or as a Swordfighter with the energy sword?

 

[TheCJBrine]

I can't speak for everyone, but personally I like characters in Smash and I just don't see Steve as one.

Mojang treats him as one though. He and Alex feel similar to how Game Freak and TPC treat most playable Pokémon trainers.

 

[PLANTMAN]

if genos costume isnt shown in the sakurai presents presentation...

Spoiler

then the costume will happen later with a different fighter. Think it’s best we never listen to rumors that have geno in it anymore

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Scoliosis Jones Oh yeah, I remembered seeing you were going to try out Minecraft shortly. Let me just say, it's one of those games where you have to forget what you know about it and go into it with an open mind. Likely, you have heard a mix of extreme praise and extreme disdain. Try to be neutral and see if you can get anything out of it.

 

[N3ON]

Also Smash ResetEra thread in shambles

Dare I ask why?

 

[CannonStreak]

Forum user learns that people have different opinions. More at 11.

I don't hate Steve and I haven't been complaining. It's just that there is simply nothing that interests me about this character so I'm disappointed.

I know there is such thing as different, so the news is null.

I am just surprised with all the hate Steve is getting, that’s all.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Do we know how connected the Smash x Minecraft presentation will be to Minecon? If it's especially close or connected, the whole thing could be entirely Minecraft connected, without other IP showing up as Mii costumes.

It does take place before Minecraft Live starts so that could be reason to have non Minecraft Mii costumes show up.

 

[Garteam]

Overall, do you guys think the timing of Steve's announcement was okay for the most part? Can't begin to imagine the rage that would ensue if he were announced last in the pass.

From a business perspective, absolutely. Fighter's Pass #2 was beginning to lose a bit of its spotlight and it really needed something big to get eyes back on Smash. Pulling out the second biggest Smash reveal period after Sonic's reveal in Brawl was exactly what the doctor ordered and then some. Smash reveals tend to do very well on social media in general, but it was almost surreal seeing the trending tab on website go from discussing the election to discussing Minecraft and Smash. A Fighter's Pass 2 gift card just got on a lot of kid's Christmas lists.

For the hardcore fanbase, it's alright. Steve's reception is pretty good so far, but it was always going to be divisive to a certain degree. Getting it out of the way now, when there's lots of characters left and tensions are overall low, is a smart play. I think it might have gone over slightly better if this announcement followed a more unanimously celebrated character reveal though.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Can we just talk about the subtle ways in which Sakurai has said "** you and your opinions" when revealing characters? Yes, I'm exaggerating, but c'mon this ** is funny. Like when he gave the finger during Byleth's reveal trailer. I know he didn't actually give the finger, but like, the implication is there and Sakurai was probably like "what's a good way to justify giving the audience the finger without technically doing it?"

Also, Steve just staring dead into the camera and teabagging.

Nah, in Minecraft teabagging is a universal sign of peace/playfulness.