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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
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To be fair, how long do you think it would take before people made a connection between Byleth and no 3H Spirits before using the same logic on SwSh if it got no Spirits? A total of five seconds?

Spirits aren't very hard to make, and I could see the four SwSh Spirits being added just to make it feel less conspicuous. If Sakurai was going to let SwSh release without adding any Spirits like he did with the Let's Go games, he may as well just hold up a flashing neon sigh that reads, "I'm adding a Gen 8 Pokemon in Smash at some point."
Why do I still see this notion that Sakurai is trying to lead people off the sent by putting in actual content so they don't suspect the reveal later on? This hasn't panned out one time in the history of Smash. Not a single Spirit got upgraded in Fighter's Pass 1 despite people making several different claims that he could have totally added certain Spirits just to throw people off the scent (Geno, Shantae, etc.). People made the same argument with Rex's Mii costume that it was thrown to fans as an apology to "tide fans over" and/or "throw them off the scent" and that didn't pan out. None of the base game fighters showed up before their reveals, and this was true of all of Smash 4's base and DLC roster reveals too.

In fact absence has only ever been the thing to actually lead to something. No Chrom or Dark Samus alts? Chrom and Dark Samus are Echo fighters. No sign of Three Houses Spirits? Byleth is playable with tons of Three Houses content. And even that stuff is hit or miss at best, but never once in the history of Smash have we seen Sakurai actively develop content to throw fans off the scent. And if you think about it, it's crazy to even suggest that's the case because why would you pour resources into the development of something like that? The minority of Smash players going crazy about literally everything that is or isn't in the game being bamboozled isn't worth your development time no matter how easy the Spirits are to make (and I mean, they aren't terribly difficult to make, but they still take time and resources). Certainly not in regards to a Pokemon where people expect to be disappointed by it at some point (because the same fan base that mostly hates Fire Emblem characters tends to hate a good deal of the Pokemon roster as well).

And people did make that connection. For literally months people noted the absence of Three Houses Spirits. So the fact that Pokemon Sword/Shield got Spirits only a couple of months removed from Three Houses more than anything hurts the argument that Pokemon is going to get a playable character. Especially when they picked literally the most important Pokemon in Sword/Shield to represent as is (Corviknight is important from a lore perspective and is your transportation, the legendaries and starters speak for themselves, and Morpeko is this generation's Pikachu that is also one of Marnie's main Pokemon as your other rival).

It's not impossible for us to get a Pokemon rep, but it's literally the exact same argument people have used in regards to the "Spirits Disconfirm" for the base Fighter's Pass, there's not really a good reason to implement content like Spirits into the game if you're just going to have more substantial and important content from that same title later on as a full on DLC pack. Maybe Urshifu from the DLC since that was developed after the initial Sword/Shield, but I think Sword/Shield's base roster went down with Spirits like Astral Chain, Resident Evil, and Kunio all have. The timing for their Spirit events is just bad when combined with the timing of the next wave of DLC being picked (and then you can also naturally drive your logic to imply that they've included Resident Evil and Astral Chain Spirits to throw people off since people were expecting characters from those franchises as well). I just don't think it's a productive way to approach things as "Sakurai trying to throw us off the scent."
 

StormC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
8,211
Sakurai didn't put Banjo & Kazooie in Smash 4 to surprise people when he put them into Smash Ultimate. Brilliant play, Sakurai. Never saw it coming.
 
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Dalek_Kolt

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
3,557
Location
Skaro
Who is the one character everyone wants, but they know in their hearts of hearts it’ll never happen?

For me, it’s Cooking Mama.
Ganon.
1579736038724.png
Him or at least another nonclone Zelda character. Even Tingle.
This made me think of a couple of questions that may or not been already discussed to death: If you were told your character's inclusion would completely change the competitive meta of the game, would you still want them in? Would you still want your favorite characters in Smash even if they don't fit your playstyle?
I mean if any character had to exist that would fundamentally rock the competitive meta to its core, might as well be the guy with the Triforce of Power.
 

clearandsweet

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
273
Finished my hot take png. Pretty much in order of how much I would freak out. All of these would be insta-mains forever if they happened.

Fighter_Pass_2.png



God, I remember voting for Sami and Isaac back on the Smash 4 ballot...
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,905
It is with mixed feelings that today I had to update my Nintendo Power 260 Checklist with a dark green check...

People were like “nuh-uh, that’s got to be a Bravely Default character!”
I mean, I thought that at first just because I didn't know the whole "Yuusha = Hero = Brave" thing.

Now, I wanted to make a visual for my Fighter's Pass. However, I know nothing about Photoshop. Thankfully, there's a program I know that's near and dear to my heart.
3/6!

Finished my hot take png. Pretty much in order of how much I would freak out. All of these would be insta-mains forever if they happened.
2.5/6
 

SuperSmashStephen

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Messages
873
Toad
Meowth
Dixie Kong
Bandana Waddle Dee
Any Zelda character

Nintendo characters that constantly get passed over basically.
honestly surprised at the absent of Dixie. I can’t understand the lack of Zelda characters as a lot of them are one-offs or inconsistent in appearance. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love Impa
 

Krankees

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
797
This made me think of a couple of questions that may or not been already discussed to death: If you were told your character's inclusion would completely change the competitive meta of the game, would you still want them in? Would you still want your favorite characters in Smash even if they don't fit your playstyle?
I asked this before and my answer would still be yes. I wanted the character so badly so I would still force myself to learn the playstyle. Wouldn't care if they were high tier or low tier.
 

snowgolem

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How would you guys react if the Fighter’s Pass went like this?
Dr Eggman - Sonic
Zangief - Street Fighter
Bowser - Super Mario Bros
Smoke - MK
Satan - Satan’s Hollow
Wreck-It Ralph - Fix-It Felix Jr
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
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Toad
Meowth
Dixie Kong
Bandana Waddle Dee
Any Zelda character

Nintendo characters that constantly get passed over basically.
Chorus Kids too - they were considered for 4 but didn't make it, so I'm lumping them in with these ppl and also Black Shadow, Medusa and Impa
 
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CapitaineCrash

Smash Champion
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2,782
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How would you guys react if the Fighter’s Pass went like this?
Dr Eggman - Sonic
Zangief - Street Fighter
Bowser - Super Mario Bros
Smoke - MK
Satan - Satan’s Hollow
Wreck-It Ralph - Fix-It Felix Jr
The only good pick here is Eggman. Why put Zangief before Chun-li or even M. Bison? Why put Smoke before Scorpion, Sub-zero, Liu Kang or Raiden? Wreck-it Ralph is not a game character. Bowser is already in the game unless I'm missing something.
 

mynameisBlade

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Kevin isn't even with Nintendo nor was he involved with the process. There's no reason he would know. It means nothing whatsoever to the situation. Fan demand is the core factor, but the fact DK was still active also helps a lot. There's a lot better chances of K. Rool to be in a new game than Isaac will be. And Isaac sure as hell was popular, considering the tons of GS content we suddenly got(and many Mii costumes are just consolation prizes. It was easier to add that in with tons of GS content at the same time as is. Plus, the front runners got costumes first.

Yeah, not seeing a lack of relevancy on Banjo's part, and fan demand did play a partial role, but him being kept active by Microsoft probably helped. There's nothing to suggest the duo being used over and over again didn't always make it easier to negotiate. If they were completely inactive, even with the ballot, the chances of them getting in would've been a lot slimmer. Microsoft still is a business after all. All of the Microsoft content is from some kind of active product. This isn't that odd either. But they are a competitor, so what'd you expect?

Banjo absolutely had a better shot anyway without the massive fan demand from the ballot. Sakurai was already aware of it. He didn't need the ballot to add him. K. Rool partially needed the ballot, but being from an active franchise helped too. Chrom nor Dark Samus even needed the ballot either way. Both were easy echoes. Ballot is of course the core reason, but the Echo factor also was vastly important. If they couldn't be Echoes, they wouldn't be in. Things aren't black and white to begin with. A lot of characters didn't "need" the ballot so much as it overall helped. Ridley might be one of the only cases at this point, and that's because Sakurai had to do more than make a moveset or take the character into consideration. He had to give him an all new model because he was unable to be shrunken down.


Verge isn't the usual reason people were predicting Hero, though. That's an extra bonus. Hero's predictions were because people were sure Brave meant Yuusha, which was a guess on various leakers' parts(which wasn't a leak at that point) as well. That's what led to the debate. Verge, at the time, had a list of 7 names. Erdrick and Luminary were some of them, but Hero was not mentioned yet. In fact, I don't remember Verge outright saying Hero, just Erdrick. This at best only made people think it was Erdrick, not a Hero with alts in general. Hero was still heavily thought upon on its own merits. Just drowned out by Erdrick. Incidentally Erdrick wasn't even the face, but that just means leakers were given pieces of information, so of course few would think it's something else. There's not a ton of people who thought Luminary could be the face, or that it was full of hero alts(I did, but my reasons don't even match what went behind the scenes, so that doesn't say much).
Ridley had a much better shot at being included in general due to his overwhelming popularity regardless. Sakurai has even mentioned Ridley multiple times. He never once mentioned K. Rool throughout all these years leading up to this. I was actually pretty mad that NONE of the people that have interviewed Sakurai ever mentioned King K. Rools absence, but then it made sense. Unless you were a hardcore DK fan, nobody cared or even knew about him.

I'd argue half of Nintendo fandom before his reveal didn't even know who he was. Whereas Ridley was still being messed with in Returns and what not. K. Rool simply would not be here if there was no ballot. Ridley always had hope. From the moment you see him represented in the Melee Intro..its jarring to anyone to see that he is not playable. So Ridley = its about time!!! K. Rool = lucky inclusion. This is just my opinion though.

I know all this. Kevin was surprised because he didn't think the character mattered to anyone. Obviously he is completely separate from Nintendo in every way now, but that reaction from him TO ME says it all. I guess to truly understand you had to be there before we were hit with the K. Rool Mii outfit and going forward. Tough times.
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,905
This made me think of a couple of questions that may or not been already discussed to death: If you were told your character's inclusion would completely change the competitive meta of the game, would you still want them in?
Since I don't play the game at a competitive level, absolutely.

Would you still want your favorite characters in Smash even if they don't fit your playstyle?
Ah, do I want more Heroes...

Yes. Better to be in and I never play them than to not have them at all.
 

Cosmic77

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Why do I still see this notion that Sakurai is trying to lead people off the sent by putting in actual content so they don't suspect the reveal later on? This hasn't panned out one time in the history of Smash. Not a single Spirit got upgraded in Fighter's Pass 1 despite people making several different claims that he could have totally added certain Spirits just to throw people off the scent (Geno, Shantae, etc.). People made the same argument with Rex's Mii costume that it was thrown to fans as an apology to "tide fans over" and/or "throw them off the scent" and that didn't pan out. None of the base game fighters showed up before their reveals, and this was true of all of Smash 4's base and DLC roster reveals too.

In fact absence has only ever been the thing to actually lead to something. No Chrom or Dark Samus alts? Chrom and Dark Samus are Echo fighters. No sign of Three Houses Spirits? Byleth is playable with tons of Three Houses content. And even that stuff is hit or miss at best, but never once in the history of Smash have we seen Sakurai actively develop content to throw fans off the scent. And if you think about it, it's crazy to even suggest that's the case because why would you pour resources into the development of something like that? The minority of Smash players going crazy about literally everything that is or isn't in the game being bamboozled isn't worth your development time no matter how easy the Spirits are to make (and I mean, they aren't terribly difficult to make, but they still take time and resources). Certainly not in regards to a Pokemon where people expect to be disappointed by it at some point (because the same fan base that mostly hates Fire Emblem characters tends to hate a good deal of the Pokemon roster as well).

And people did make that connection. For literally months people noted the absence of Three Houses Spirits. So the fact that Pokemon Sword/Shield got Spirits only a couple of months removed from Three Houses more than anything hurts the argument that Pokemon is going to get a playable character. Especially when they picked literally the most important Pokemon in Sword/Shield to represent as is (Corviknight is important from a lore perspective and is your transportation, the legendaries and starters speak for themselves, and Morpeko is this generation's Pikachu that is also one of Marnie's main Pokemon as your other rival).

It's not impossible for us to get a Pokemon rep, but it's literally the exact same argument people have used in regards to the "Spirits Disconfirm" for the base Fighter's Pass, there's not really a good reason to implement content like Spirits into the game if you're just going to have more substantial and important content from that same title later on as a full on DLC pack. Maybe Urshifu from the DLC since that was developed after the initial Sword/Shield, but I think Sword/Shield's base roster went down with Spirits like Astral Chain, Resident Evil, and Kunio all have. The timing for their Spirit events is just bad when combined with the timing of the next wave of DLC being picked (and then you can also naturally drive your logic to imply that they've included Resident Evil and Astral Chain Spirits to throw people off since people were expecting characters from those franchises as well). I just don't think it's a productive way to approach things as "Sakurai trying to throw us off the scent."
We'll see. Just feels like people are eager to jump to conclusions if it spares them from a character they don't want. Saw the same attitude when I suggested getting a first-party in the first pass. I even remember you yourself making a similar lengthy post explaining why first-parties, especially those that are already on the roster, weren't getting in as DLC. You explained that they didn't bring as much to the table as an entire new franchise, and that adding one would go against everything Reggie, Sakurai, and many others had been saying over the past year.

And now here we are. After four third-parties, we ended the first DLC pack with a first-party. The pattern and logic the fanbase held so dear was shattered.

People can keep clinging on to patterns and sweep the chances of a SwSh character under the rug if it gives them peace of mind. If I'm wrong, the egg's on my face, and those who were right can take a victory lap. Regardless, the four Spirits we got in November aren't all SwSh has to offer, and considering how there's only two, maybe three first-party games in the timespan of 2019 to 2020 with a legitimate chance of getting a character, I don't see why Pokemon should suddenly be considered dead in the water. You don't have many other options, and whatever options you do have are pretty pale in comparison.

One last thing I have to say. If you're someone who still thinks Spirits count as deconfirmations, then you either think Ring Fit Trainer or Gooigi have a better shot than a Pokemon all because of a few Spirits, or you're still adamant that we're only getting third-parties, even though Byleth was revealed only a week ago. Personally, I would recommend not investing so much stock into the presence of a quartet of jpegs and keep ourselves open to the possibility, but I don't think many people are willing do that.
 

snowgolem

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I’d like to address something really quick.
When people talk about the character they want, if it isn’t from a fighting game, they’ll most likely say “he included Isabelle, he can include this character” he referring to Sakurai.
But I think a better way to think about it is “could I make a full moveset after this character if I tried my hardest?” If the answer is no, that’s most likely true for Sakurai and his team too. They have their limits. Sakurai even told us that when he saw BOTW Zelda, he knew he wasn’t gonna be able to include her. Just remember that Sakurai has his limits and not everything can be brought into a fighting game like Super Smash Bros.
 

Kokiden

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
782
This made me think of a couple of questions that may or not been already discussed to death: If you were told your character's inclusion would completely change the competitive meta of the game, would you still want them in? Would you still want your favorite characters in Smash even if they don't fit your playstyle?
Yes.

I’m flexible when it comes to play style. I base my main decision on whether I like that character or not.

Even though I usually prefer speed and deftness, that doesn’t stop me from using Bayonetta, who is anything but that in Ultimate.

It’s impossible, but Vergil getting in would definitely change the competitive meta if he’s anything like his adaptation in UMVC3 lol.
 

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
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I’d like to address something really quick.
When people talk about the character they want, if it isn’t from a fighting game, they’ll most likely say “he included Isabelle, he can include this character” he referring to Sakurai.
But I think a better way to think about it is “could I make a full moveset after this character if I tried my hardest?” If the answer is no, that’s most likely true for Sakurai and his team too. They have their limits. Sakurai even told us that when he saw BOTW Zelda, he knew he wasn’t gonna be able to include her. Just remember that Sakurai has his limits and not everything can be brought into a fighting game like Super Smash Bros.
By all means, Sakurai could've included BotW Zelda if he really wanted to. The moveset has existed since Melee.

When he said he couldn't add BotW Zelda, he really meant that he didn't think having her fight in a game like Smash would represent her very well. It's similar to how he felt about Ridley back in 2014 when he said shrinking Ridley down wouldn't work because it "wouldn't be Ridley anymore".

It's all subjective, and it can change over the course of time.
 
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SpectreJordan

Smash Lord
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Predictions:
9D727EAD-370E-4784-934F-8442C01BBCC7.jpeg


Hopes:
994AA237-24F1-4A30-8837-90B6494378C5.jpeg


I actually want Ryu & Heihachi a decent amount too, they’d probably be right after Steve on my personal most wanted list.

I feel they’ll skip a Sword/Shield event & instead focus on promoting the highly likely Diamond/Pearl remake instead. I’m not too familiar with Pokemon (haven’t played one yet, but I know the basics) so I figured it’d be a starter or their final evolution.

We might not get the Xenoblade 2 characters exactly, but I feel a Xenoblade character is likely. It seems like Nintendo wants the franchise to become one of their bigger series. Getting another character in Smash would definitely help that. It’d also help promote the remake of the first game.

Doom Slayer & Jill would’ve made my most wanted list, but they’re sadly deconfirmed. Frisk is another character I really want & they have a slight chance, but the Sans Mii costume probably deconfirms any additional Undertale content.
 
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Jomosensual

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
2,014
Predictions:
View attachment 259297


Hopes:
View attachment 259298


I actually want Ryu & Heihachi a decent amount too, they’d probably be right after Steve on my personal most wanted list.

I feel they’ll skip a Sword/Shield event & instead focus on promoting the highly likely Diamond/Pearl remake instead. I’m not too familiar with Pokemon (haven’t played one yet, but I know the basics) so I figured it’d be a starter or their final evolution.

Doom Slayer & Jill would’ve made my most wanted list, but they’re sadly deconfirmed. Frisk is another character I really want & they have a slight chance, but the Sans Mii costume probably deconfirms any additional Undertale content.
This reminds me that I still want to figure out how to edit the fighters pass template to make my own FP.
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
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I feel they’ll skip a Sword/Shield event & instead focus on promoting the highly likely Diamond/Pearl remake instead. I’m not too familiar with Pokemon (haven’t played one yet, but I know the basics) so I figured it’d be a starter or their final evolution.
I never even considered this. My first thought was they would be picking one of the final evolutions for sword and shield since the base forms are spirits and final evos get first smash dibs.

But a gen 4 Pokemon like Garchomp or Infernape makes a lot more sense.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I never even considered this. My first thought was they would be picking one of the final evolutions for sword and shield since the base forms are spirits and final evos get first smash dibs.

But a gen 4 Pokemon like Garchomp or Infernape makes a lot more sense.
I was gonna say they should do Arceus, but its a Poké Ball Pokémon so...

They should do Arceus anyway.
 

Ura

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Wow so i'm just coming back from work finding out that Doomguy is ****ing dead. f to all his supporters.

Perhaps this is the lead in to the good Chief? If nothing else, hopefully speculation doesn't revolve around the same groups of characters all the time.
 

Cosmic77

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Diamond and Pearl remakes probably aren't coming until November 2021, which is one month before the deadline.

I guess it's possible? The DLC was finalized in November 2019 at the latest, so that would mean they'd have to plan to add a character representing a game coming out more than two years later.
 

Nemuresu

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I don't count on DP remakes even happening because of SwSh's DLC. Think about it, tutor moves and absent legendaries are usually included in remakes and re-releases, now they former are available in Sword and Shield via Technical Records and the latter are being implemented into a paid expansion for the base games.

And even if the managed to exist, there's already a Gen 4 pokémon in Smash, that being Lucario, so who else could they add?
 

Hadokeyblade

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Diamond and Pearl remakes probably aren't coming until November 2021, which is one month before the deadline.

I guess it's possible? The DLC was finalized in November 2019 at the latest, so that would mean they'd have to plan to add a character representing a game coming out more than two years later.
to be fair it would just be a remake of an already beloved game so it wouldn't be too hard to plan things out
 

GoodGrief741

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Diamond and Pearl remakes probably aren't coming until November 2021, which is one month before the deadline.

I guess it's possible? The DLC was finalized in November 2019 at the latest, so that would mean they'd have to plan to add a character representing a game coming out more than two years later.
It's Pokemon. Not many franchises have the royal treatment of getting a character in two years before release, but Pokemon is one of those.

Then again they usually ignore the Pokemon remakes so who knows.
 

Captain Shwampy

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Wow so i'm just coming back from work finding out that Doomguy is ****ing dead. f to all his supporters.

Perhaps this is the lead in to the good Chief? If nothing else, hopefully speculation doesn't revolve around the same groups of characters all the time.
Cheif brought in the Energy Swords

Doomboy never had a chance
 

Cosmic77

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to be fair it would just be a remake of an already beloved game so it wouldn't be too hard to plan things out
Game hasn't even been officially announced yet, and it probably won't until next year.

Just feels a bit premature. Reminds me of everyone who thought Eevee could get in as the next Pokemon when Ultimate began work as far back as 2015.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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If we somehow do end up getting a Gen 4 Pokemon in Smash, I'm just gonna say one thing regarding it:

lumineon for smash
Lumineon is one of those "oh yeah, that exists" Pokémon. It's a shame because its design is one of the best among the fish Pokémon. Therefore making it a playable character would be a win win for everyone. Screw Arceus, Lumineon is the best new Pokémon pick.

Game hasn't even been officially announced yet, and it probably won't until next year.

Just feels a bit premature. Reminds me of everyone who thought Eevee could get in as the next Pokemon when Ultimate began work as far back as 2015.
That is true, and considering they're making DLC for Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield this year I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get any sort of remake next year.
 

RileyXY1

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I don't count on DP remakes even happening because of SwSh's DLC. Think about it, tutor moves and absent legendaries are usually included in remakes and re-releases, now they former are available in Sword and Shield via Technical Records and the latter are being implemented into a paid expansion for the base games.

And even if the managed to exist, there's already a Gen 4 pokémon in Smash, that being Lucario, so who else could they add?
The only Gen 4 Pokemon I can see getting in are Gallade or one of the fully evolved Sinnoh starters.
 
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