G-Dub
Smash Journeyman
Unless im missing something someone wants to add we can move on to zss (or sonic because i have absolutely no idea how to deal with that mu lol)
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You can't camp Sonic that well due to his speed, so you always have to expect that approach and try to find a way to counter it. In other words, restrict movements with projectiles, then sword/shield/move away/whatever. That's basically your plan for the entire match. Unless the Sonic you're playing is playing super gay, it's pretty safe to expect him to be constantly in your face with pressure. Speaking of which, you will be dealing with a lot of lightning fast pressure, so a lot of the things you do you won't really have time to think about.
Sonic has a lot of strange movement options that he has to commit to, so it's a matter of learning the parameters of what he can do in certain situations.
A small checklist:
Sonic initiates DownB on ground. He can:
-Shield immediately.
-Keep on hitting B to infinitely charge it.
-Hit Jump while he's charging it to do a jump while spinning (he can do a regular double jump after it).
-Do some weird spinshot thing, where he does what looks like a long jump while spinning.
-Let go, then continue to roll at you (he can cancel the roll with jump -> aerial).
Sonic initiates DownB in the air. He can:
-Do all the same **** as above.
-Cancel the roll with a shield immediately when he touches the ground.
---This means he can shield -> Grab/Roll/Spotdodge/Jump very quickly
Sonic initiates SideB. He can do everything mentioned above, but he cannot:
-Cannot continue to hit B to charge it.
-Cannot cancel it out with a grab.
-Cannot do the weird spinshot thing.
Normally with all of his rolls, your best option is to always hold shield. There's only one instance in which he can grab you from it, and that's if he initiates DownB from the air and lands right next to you (his grab range is short btw). It's important that you hold shield because Sonic has a lot of mixups with delayed hitboxes that he'll do right after he rolls against your shield and jumps, like Fair or UpB (the spring will hit you).
Something that I realized is that when Sonic hits your shield after a roll with a rising aerial, it's best not to go up in the air and chase him, because you're probably not gonna be able to reach him with anything. It's best to just punish his landing as opposed to try to punish him in the air.
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Since Sonic is so fast, it's always good to stay the hell away from him because you need all the reaction time you can get. Normally Sonics will try to approach you like crazy, so there's no reason to approach them back. Just let them run to you. Since he's so fast, it's extremely important that you pay attention to what actions you commit to. For example, boomerangs are slow, and if you miss, then you're gonna be wide open for a while. It may not seem like a lot of time, but Sonic can punish you from like a mile away in a split second, even if it's with something weak like dash attack. I know that Espy baits Jerm to hell with a lot of things by just sort of dancing around him until he finds an opening. For example, he'll sprint directly at Jerm, which will make Jerm instinctively want to do something like a retreating Bair (since he has no time to wait and see). Espy would expect that and just stop right next to him with shield, just outside of Bair range. TL's bair has a little bit of ending lag, but it is more than enough time for Espy to just do something.
I haven't played Sonic in a while, but I think what I used to do against him was only throw like one projectile then prepare for an approach. IIRC, arrows cancel rolls, and if he's doing the cool invincibility trick on YI:B, the arrows stop Sonic from moving. This means that quickdraws are super effective. The rest of your projectiles are useful too, but you just have to know when to use them. I think retreating Zair works pretty well when Sonic is trying to pressure you/mindgame you with the infinitely charging DownB since you can cancel Zair to a shield in like 2 frames. If Zair is spaced correctly, Sonic would be at a position where he can't immediately attack you from where he's at, so you might have some time to think.
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Random things to keep in mind:
-Sonic has pretty bad OoS options. I think his best one is FTilt (not a bad move since it has like 3 multihit hitboxes). His other moves aren't exactly good (DTilt has a lot of ending lag, UTilt has a short horizontal hitbox, Jab is jab, grab has short range, etc.) He can spring out of a bind too, but that doesn't put a lot of pressure on you since it's just him escaping, lol.
-TL UAir > Sonic Dair. If you predict a Dair, just throw out UAir. It's ****, and it wins every time.
-Sonic's recovery is very predictable. Although his UpB has invincibility frames upon initiation, he's usually wide open once he's nearing the peak of his jump, and his jump always puts him in the same exact spot. Once you predict when he's going to Spring to recover, you can just Fair him in the spot where you know he's going to be before he can initiate an action (which will usually be either air dodge or an aerial, depending on your position). Sometimes Sonic will try to use his homing attack to recover. Don't fall for that lol.
-After a spring, Sonic can't use B attacks, but he can still use A attacks and footstool jump. If you try to edgehog him, you have to watch out for rogue Fairs stage spiking you while you're holding onto the ledge. Also, if you're just holding onto the ledge, he can just footstool jump you and land safely onstage.
-Sonic's Fair can be SDI'd upward/backwards to escape the last hit.
-Sonic's running powershield is ****. It's instant pressure. If you can figure out a pattern you can grab it.
Sonic's throws:
DThrow: This move puts you in a really extensive tech chase. There are two different places where you can tech the ground (once directly after the last hit while you're touching the ground, and the other is after you're thrown, you can tech the place where you land). It's extensive because there's a billion different things that can happen (you tech the first time, the second time, or never, and each of those situations branch into a bunch of different options like roll, getup attack, etc.) Something I like to do is tech in place right under his feet, then immediately either Jab -> Something, or Grab. There are a million mixups you can do, just keep on switching them.
FThrow: It sucks. He might Fair you out of it, so avoid it. I doubt Sonic mains will even use this though.
BThrow: DI upward. It's not that strong, but it can kill you early near a walk-off. He can't combo into anything afterward.
UThrow: Pick a side and DI towards that side. Chances are that right after the UThrow, if you're at high percents, the Sonic is going to chase you with a Spring and either Fair, Bair, or Uair. Don't air dodge immediately, always try to time it.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFNfENv6Hvg
Look at this video from Jerm, and you'll get the basic idea of things. I think Jerm and Espy played the MU very well. Some things I noticed was that Jerm didn't hold out his shield after getting hit by the roll -> aerial. You'll notice that he gets hit by the delayed spring a bunch of times. Again, if you hold out your shield, there's NOTHING that Sonic can do that'll put you at a disadvantage. Shield beats all of Sonic's options.
Also, Jerm jumps and angles boomerang down, which is not the best of options in this MU. Quickdraws are good because they cover a lot of ground, which Sonic depends on. Angling boomerangs doesn't replicate this.
yeah I've come to the conclusion that a lot of old vids are better than new vids in some ways, especially when there are no amazingly good vids *at all* of MUs like this one. I've seen Jerm play better than he did here.Better than the Jerm vs Espy video I linked you from 2013?
I'll assume this is friendly banter lol.lmao get bopped freejay
WHO'S GIVING ADVICE NOW? OOHHHH
I CAlmost everything I say online is friendly banter.