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New to PM new to Smash in general, where do I start?!

Hezron

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
5
Location
Joplin, MO
Hey smashers(don't know what you guys call yourselves) I've recently taking a strong interest in getting into smash more than just casually(after watching the smash documentary who doesn't want to get into smash). I'm a big fan of esports as of a couple years ago and over those years I've watched a few smash tournies here and there(the last evo was hypeee) so I know about some of the concepts you guys throw around. As far as playing I've only really played as much as you would assume a regular gamer did on a casual level, so I know the basics of the basics not much else in terms of actual skill. Where should I start in beggining to learn the game and get better in all fronts? Any suggestions would be great! Oh and I'll be playing all this on PM if that makes any difference.
 

QQQQQQQ7777777

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
2,300
Hey smashers(don't know what you guys call yourselves) I've recently taking a strong interest in getting into smash more than just casually(after watching the smash documentary who doesn't want to get into smash). I'm a big fan of esports as of a couple years ago and over those years I've watched a few smash tournies here and there(the last evo was hypeee) so I know about some of the concepts you guys throw around. As far as playing I've only really played as much as you would assume a regular gamer did on a casual level, so I know the basics of the basics not much else in terms of actual skill. Where should I start in beggining to learn the game and get better in all fronts? Any suggestions would be great! Oh and I'll be playing all this on PM if that makes any difference.
First, get a gamecube controller. You will get nowhere without a gamecube controller, trust me on this. Try to master the basic skills like dash dancing and wavedashing before anything. You can do what I do an drag some friends to your house and force them to play with you to get better, or use the Project M Player Locator project to find players near you. from there its up to you, pick some mains (characters that you feel comfortable using and believe you can be good at) and train with friends to find the way you like to play and develop your own style.
 

Hezron

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
5
Location
Joplin, MO
Yea I've always used a gamecube controller for smash games, except for 64 since we played it on N64. Thanks for all the advice! Would it be best to practice dash dancing and wavedashing extensively in training mode or just try and figure them out through versus?
 

Chzrm3

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
625
3DS FC
3926-5442-3703
It's really nice to practice that stuff separately. I'd start with the L-cancel, since I think it's the simplest thing to learn, but the timing is really important and adding that single tech into your arsenal kind of opens your eyes - you realize how much faster you've become and the appeal of competitive play starts to become apparent.

When I was training my brother and his friend (they'd been losing smash matches in their high school video game club), I had them start with the L-cancel. : D They were acting like it was this precious, secret knowledge, it was so funny.

Within a month, those kids were good enough to give me a run for my money, and they started dominating everyone in the club. And then, the best part of smash - the other kids started learning tech too, and everyone's level rose.

Oh man, I miss those days, when Melee was still new and pure and crazy. (For the record, my bro played Yoshi and his pal played G&W. : D)
 

Crescent Monkey

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
106
Location
Olney, MD
Maybe let us know which character interests you the most. In general, practicing L-cancelling first is a good plan, but if you want to use a character like Sheik, then practicing Wavedashing is much more important, and some characters even have incredibly useful techniques that is not important at all on other characters, like Glide Tossing or Float Cancelling.
 

Ogopogo

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
568
Location
Middle TN
3DS FC
3797-6544-0935
I'd say that learning how to read an opponent is more important than tech skill, but tech is still good. Depends on who you're playing, really.
 

Rarik

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
206
Location
Boston
Decision making is more important than tech skill up until the point where your tech skill is limiting the proper decisions you should be making. For example, if you can't wavedash consistently and you find yourself in situations where you want to wavedash back -> Punish, then tech skill becomes a priority. Ultimately the two go hand in hand because without good decision making you're just showing off your fancy tech skill, and without proper tech skill you can't actually perform those good decisions in game.
 

Vigilante

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
1,813
Location
Quebec
For the most part, learn to make advanced tech into muscle memory. At first, you will see a decline in your efficiency. That's because you'll mess up a few times while trying to get it right and be punished by your adversary for it. Nevertheless, as you keep using those techniques, they'll become easier and easier for you to perform, and once you can do them without thinking too hard about it, you can start actually seeing a rise in your efficiency.

I suggest looking into a few pro matches, just to get an idea of how these techniques are being used. Also, make sure to learn how to conserve your double jumps, make sure you know how to DI. Those are minor things that can really help you out when starting off, and will continue to serve you well later as you get better.

Also, experiment. When I used to main Lucario (Roy took his place), I had nothing to go by. There was no real benchmark as to how he should be played. At at time like this, try different things, mess around with your character, see what it can and cannot do. A swordsman without knowledge of swordsmanship is not much of a threat. The same is true about a smasher's and the mastery over his primary tool of combat: his character.

Other than that, there are good players without that much tech skill. Playing smart can make a difference. I'm not amazing, but that is what keeps being said.
 

Hezron

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
5
Location
Joplin, MO
Thanks everyone! I haven't had time to play any really due to college(being a piano major is a lot of work!) but its the weekend xD so I'll be able to spend some time familiarlizing my hands with L-canceling and feeling everything out! Also is Roy out for the public to play yet? The version I downloaded like this past weekend doesn't have Roy out, did they release a new one?
 

TreK

Is "that guy"
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
2,960
Location
France
Roy will be released this winter. Best Christmas present ever I guess :p
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
I wanna prove you wrong on this.
Whilst wearing that grin in your profile picture. I'd love it.

Anyway, everybody's said everything I can think of. Get a controller and scheme that's going to work for you. Most people are going to tell you to get a GC controller, and I would agree (since it's what I'm used to, and what most people will refer to in terms of controls and terminology).

The first thing I'd probably do when starting the game, is find a playstyle that you like above all else. Play around with the cast members, get comfortable with what you like. I loved Link, I loved the LoZ series, and when I first played him, Link was very uncomfortable because I didn't know any of the technical stuff. So, I got into Mario. I figured out the tricks and quirks of the game, I figured out how to play on a slightly higher level, and with that, I was able to get back into the character I wanted to play all along. So, just because something feels weird, don't worry about it.

After you've got a playstyle figured out and a preference built, I'd probably focus on the fundamental techniques in the game. These include L-cancelling like people have mentioned, but having the Jab Cancel and Waveland aren't bad to get under your belt early on, either. Once your game speeds up and you experience that rising level of play, you'll appreciate it more and strive for a better overall game. It's like what was said earlier; my household and I started off at a poor level, but when we started investing time into it, people started asking "how did you do that", and we'd tell eachother our discoveries, and take advantage of them and build our game up off of one another.

The biggest tip I can offer, is to spend plenty of time in the metagame. Spend time out of the game reading, watching progames, studying hitboxes, collecting information off of the smash wikis and whatnot. Do your homework. When you've practiced hard all day long, the best thing you can do for yourself is to sit down and read for a good long while. Watching Hylian do all of the janky Glide Tossing that he did against DSF made my jaw drop every time, and I watched that game religiously; I must've watched it for at least ten hours worth of time. It wasn't until I started reading up on what he was doing that I was able to pick it out when he was doing it at lightning speed, and before long, perform it myself.

Nothing's more rewarding than having that one trick that you just can't do after hours of practice, and then reading and watching and finally being able to do it every time on cue. Being able to do the Wave Dash was the first 'breakthrough' I had for my game, and it felt amazing, what a rush. Then, after a few months of not trying it, getting the DACUS down made me feel like I was only getting better and better. It feels good to improve, and you'll know when you are.
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
Decision making is more important than tech skill up until the point where your tech skill is limiting the proper decisions you should be making. For example, if you can't wavedash consistently and you find yourself in situations where you want to wavedash back -> Punish, then tech skill becomes a priority. Ultimately the two go hand in hand because without good decision making you're just showing off your fancy tech skill, and without proper tech skill you can't actually perform those good decisions in game.
This, this, this, a million times this. Like I was saying earlier, nothing felt better than doing the wavedash or DACUS; BUT, I caught myself trying to do it everywhere, even when not appropriate to do so. Just knowing a technique won't make you a powerful player. You'll know some fancy tricks in the game, but that's only half of it; you're going to have to know when to use what you have.
 

XalchemistX

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
570
Location
Queens, NY
NNID
Alchemistx
Follow this video religiously and you'll be good from there

The most important techniques is L-canceling and wave-dashing
 

DrinkingFood

Smash Hero
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
5,600
Location
Beaumont, TX
Basically, before either player gets in a hit or while both players are on equal ground position wise, when neither character has an advantage that is based on position or hitstun.
I'm sure there's a more comprehensive definition but that's the gist of it. For example, start of a match is always at neutral, and remains that way until one player has got a hit or psyched the other player out into back into a corner. It tends to be much more complicated than that video depicts however, especially when projectile and platform play come into the mix.
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
Basically, before either player gets in a hit or while both players are on equal ground position wise, when neither character has an advantage that is based on position or hitstun.
I'm sure there's a more comprehensive definition but that's the gist of it. For example, start of a match is always at neutral, and remains that way until one player has got a hit or psyched the other player out into back into a corner. It tends to be much more complicated than that video depicts however, especially when projectile and platform play come into the mix.
I guess I could've looked it up, but I appreciate the breakdown. It makes a lot more sense now.
 

Xinc

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 18, 2011
Messages
1,560
Location
NY, NY
NNID
xincmars
3DS FC
2981-7601-8481
That's a good vid you put up there. :D Actually, I still haven't gotten the hand of Wavedashing fluidly.
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
That's a good vid you put up there. :D Actually, I still haven't gotten the hand of Wavedashing fluidly.
You'll get there. The timing will vary from character to character. Like, for Mario and Luigi, I can scoot across the stage nonstop fluidly, where with Link I cannot. Just do exactly what the video said to try; airdodging into the ground until you're not even leaving it, and then doing the same at an angle.

Another thing that will help you get into it is to practice wavelanding.
 

Viceversa96

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
413
Decision making is more important than tech skill up until the point where your tech skill is limiting the proper decisions you should be making. For example, if you can't wavedash consistently and you find yourself in situations where you want to wavedash back -> Punish, then tech skill becomes a priority. Ultimately the two go hand in hand because without good decision making you're just showing off your fancy tech skill, and without proper tech skill you can't actually perform those good decisions in game.
Dang it Rarik I was about to say that lol
 

Orngeblu

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
748
Location
Rock Hill, South Carolina
3DS FC
0104-1846-4809
Hey smashers(don't know what you guys call yourselves) I've recently taking a strong interest in getting into smash more than just casually(after watching the smash documentary who doesn't want to get into smash). I'm a big fan of esports as of a couple years ago and over those years I've watched a few smash tournies here and there(the last evo was hypeee) so I know about some of the concepts you guys throw around. As far as playing I've only really played as much as you would assume a regular gamer did on a casual level, so I know the basics of the basics not much else in terms of actual skill. Where should I start in beggining to learn the game and get better in all fronts? Any suggestions would be great! Oh and I'll be playing all this on PM if that makes any difference.
Most likely already been said, but I'll just post my advice anyways: I would start by (what QQQ777 said) is to master wavedashing and L-canceling. Just go into training mode and practice it. Do an aerial attack, and try to L-cancel at the right time. (You'll see your character flash white for a second, so keep watch of that, it means you did it) As for wavedashing, jump and try to wavedash down as fast as you can, for practice. After you think you have the hang of that, try wavedashing to the side, try wavedashing onto platforms, try wavedashing in one direction then wavedashing back. I think you have the general idea now. After that, try applying it in a real match as consistently as you can.

As for finding a character you want to main, play any character until you find one you like. Watch higher level players play said character to learn some new tactics you can apply to your game, and the more experience you get from playing others, you'll learn to make better decisions.

Spacing is also an important mechanic. Spacing your attacks can possibly allow you to hit them, without you getting hit yourself, and if attacked on shield, can possibly prevent shield grabbing if spaced correctly.

Oh, I forgot, experimenting (what vigilante said) with different moves to figure out what attack they can follow up into, or what situations it's useful in is a good thing also. Experiment with your character moveset!

When the time comes, you can learn more advanced techniques like DI (Directional influence), and CC (Crouch Cancelling)
 
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