New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Metal Overlord]

Are you still going on about Mewtwo not making it in? We get it, bro, you don't want Mewtwo in the game

I used a gif of that before on here actually, John, when the Wii U E3 news first came lol

 

[FlareHabanero]

Too bad you still haven't found your brains, Habanero....

I apologize that I have different views from you. I completely forgot that this was the internet and that every soul on here should be one big hivemind.

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ The thing is, practically everyone wants Mewtwo. In Japan, Mewtwo is bar none the #1 most wanted character for Brawl. Seriously, people's want for Mewtwo is almost as much as people's want for Sonic (for Brawl). Considering how much hype was created by Sonic in Brawl, I don't say that lightly. I was here for the Sonic SWF lag and crashes!

It's at such a maddening state in how everyone likes Mewtwo that we all pretty much stop asking people whether they want Mewtwo or not. We just assume everyone does!

Are you still going on about Mewtwo not making it in? We get it, bro, you don't want Mewtwo in the game

I used a gif of that before on here actually, John, when the Wii U E3 news first came lol

Yeah, Mewtwo's getting in. A new Pokémon definitely will, too, and most likely all the Brawl Pokémon will return. Sakurai sounded satisfied with all of the newcomers in Brawl.

[COLLAPSE="Also, I found Metal Overlord's reaction to when Mewtwo is confirmed in Smash 4...."]

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[ChaosSoul]

Mewto might not return if one thinks about it logicly mewto represented gen1 pichu gen2 and lucario gen4 so gens 3 &5 havent

 

[FlareHabanero]

So there are going to be 8 Pokemon characters in the next game? I'm sorry, but that sounds like too much.

 

[ChaosSoul]

What would the best joke character be for smash bros
Personal i think a goomba wold be a joke character cause all it could do is walk an bonk things with its head

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Chaos
The only thing any character represents in smash bros in themselves. Nobody wants "filler" characters just to "represent" something.

@ Habanero
Well, 549 Pokémon "sounds like too much." And selling what=??? 200 million video games, getting millions of views for hundreds of TV episodes, and making billions off a card game "sounds like too much." But that is what Pokémon does, and has been doing for 16 years. And Pokémon keeps getting more and more popular. Thus, that is why so many people want so many different Pokémon to be playable (or Pokéball Pokémon and whatnot) in smash, and why so many Pokémon potential newcomers are ridiculously popular.

There are so many Pokémon, and lots of good choices. Like I said, we got 549 choices of them, all of which are in each game. With games like Mario, Zelda, and Donkey Kong, you can't even say that characters like Luigi, Ganondorf, or K. Rool will be in them!

Also, it's not like Sakurai sits there with a calculator going "Hmm, well if I do my equation by the calculus squared of the trimester of the rectangle of the roster, 7 playable characters from Pokémon universe seems to be obsolete." What Sakurai does instead is merely add characters that are important to their series, that originated in gaming, that perhaps or popular (this isn't a requirement), that may be forgotten yet important (this isn't a requirement) that make us want to play the game (to where we'll pay money for the game!), that balance out the rest of the roster, and that add something new to smash bros.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Difference is, Haba, you state the possibility of Mewtwo not coming back as fact. At least ChaosSoul explained his reasoning for why he thinks Mewtwo might not come back; you've barely explained your stance (at least not to my knowledge). All you do is just say stuff like, "Mewtwo isn't coming back we're getting Zoroark stop whining and deal with it" which makes you look like a know-it-all

If you have a hard on for Mewtwo possibly not coming back and Zoroark making it instead, then that's your thing, but no need to constantly bring it up everytime Mewtwo is even brought up as a discussion and then get mad at us for disagreeing with you, homie

@John- LMAO, I got to save that gif

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We had him in Pichu already. And Brawl!Giga Bowser. That version of him sucked.

Mewtwo may not come back. Doesn't bother me either way. I'd rather get two new characters before any returners besides the original 12 Pokemon-wise. Once they got in, Mewtwo, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer, Pichu, they're fair game.

 

[Johnknight1]

I doubt the Pokémon Trainer is leaving. Sakurai hasn't dumped such a unique character. Sakurai didn't drop Mr. Game and Watch, Ness, and, above all, the Ice Climbers.

[COLLAPSE="Guys, this is Golden's reaction to Mewtwo being in Melee, circa 2001 (and what we can expect when he is confirmed for Smash 4):"]

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[ChaosSoul]

Difference is, Haba, you state Mewtwo not coming back as fact. At least ChaosSoul explained his reasoning for why he thinks Mewtwo might not come back; you've barely explained your stance (at least not to my knowledge). All you do is just say stuff like, "Mewtwo isn't coming back we're getting Zoroark stop whining and deal with it" which makes you look like a know-it-all

If you have a hard on for Mewtwo possibly not coming back and Zoroark making it instead, then that's your thing, but no need to constantly bring it up everytime Mewtwo is even brought up as a discussion and then get mad at us for disagreeing with you, homie

@John- LMAO, I got to save that gif

Can we change the subject like who should get buffed or nerffed

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No, Johnknight1. Those were unique characters from a different franchise. PT is not. He's an unique character, but I wouldn't put my hopes up in him since he's just another Pokemon rep. Those are not hard to replace.

You can't replace another franchise so easily. Two completely different stories.

 

[Metal Overlord]

If that's what you want Chaos, then sure, I'm game

Samus needs a buff, IMO. The Charge Shot was kinda *** in Brawl

 

[ChaosSoul]

Captin falcon should get buffed manily his up smash it is so weeak

 

[Johnknight1]

Just replace Brawl Captain Falcon with Melee Captain Falcon. Literally Brawl Captain Falcon is a stripped down version Melee Captain Falcon with all of the strengths gone. Heck, Captain Falcon in Brawl had one of the worst recoveries, he had minimal strength, his combos were short and stupid, his knee was useless, and most of his moves suck.

Samus needs a buff, IMO. The Charge Shot was kinda *** in Brawl

Samus in Brawl was a disaster. They took away most of her Smash 64 and Melee strengths and gave her no extra strengths. Brawl Samus is the definition of underpowered.

No, Johnknight1. Those were unique characters from a different franchise. PT is not.

Nope. I included Ness. Besides, I could argue that the Pokémon Trainer is the main character of Pokémon.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

PT only represents how you play through the games. That's just a PC. The real main is still Pikachu and always will be. PT is at best a neat rep, but he's still not comparable to only one rep.

Also, Mr. Game & Watch and Ice Climbers, unlike Ness, had no other possible replacements. Ness had Lucas and Ninten who could do the same job.

Cutting either of those would cut the franchise, not just a character. They're on different levels. And why the analogy doesn't work all that well. Simply put, it's too flawed.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Cutting characters = Backlash and demand for the characters to return.

Cuts are bad, and you should feel bad.

-Dr. Zoidberg

 

[Metal Overlord]

@HyperFalcon- Pokemon Trainer isn't just any old Pokemon with a unique moveset and attacks though, he's a unique idea overall. If you cut him, pretty much the whole "A trainer sits in the background while you fight with and switch between his Pokemon" idea goes with him. That's something that can't be easily replaced.

Even disregarding that, I think when a lot of people suggest cutting him, they forget that he's more important to Pokemon overall than pretty much any other character (even Pikachu, he's just the mascot). After all, who do you play as when you play a Pokemon game? A Pokemon Trainer. They even gave him some of the most popular and iconic Pokemon (Charizard and Squirtle) from arguably the most popular generation (the first), and based him on the most popular Trainer (Red). You could also PT as a way to represent starter Pokemon in Smash. So, while it's POSSIBLE that he could get, it's still totally improbable and would cause even more of a backlash than cutting Mewtwo did

 

[FlareHabanero]

Besides, Pokemon Trainer is such a generic name. Would it really be that hard to simply call him Red?

 

[-J-]

I agree that Samus, and especially Captain Falcon, need buffs in the next installment. Virtually everything about the guy was nerfed from Melee to Brawl, and it was severe. He was rendered unplayable for me for the most part, which was kinda-sorta a travesty. Meta Knight should be nerfed in most respects, but not to the extent to where he's almost useless in comparison to what he once was like with the Good Captain.

Dr. Zoidberg has wise words, indeed. Love Futurama, actually!

I also feel that Snake should weigh a little less than he does in Brawl- feels a bit lofty, though it does make sense with all of that weaponry he keeps strapped on himself, but still. That, and some of his attacks can be nerfed a taaaad bit.

Besides, Pokemon Trainer is such a generic name. Would it really be that hard to simply call him Red?

I actually agree with that much, though I can see why they'd name him either/or.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

@Habanero I asked that once. It did not go well.

 

[Oasis_S]

Cutting characters = Backlash and demand for the characters to return.

Unless your name is Pichu or Dr. Mario.

 

[Metal Overlord]

They probably just wanted to represent Pokemon Trainers as a whole, not just one trainer (Red), that's what I'd guess, at least

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I know quite a few who want them back. Can't say I sympathize, but they have some fans.

The idea of both a Pokémon and one of its evolutionary relatives being playable in the same Smash Bros. game always bothered me. As does the idea of Doc.

@Pkmn Trainer Name I just like Red because that represents the character design represented. Besides, I bet he gets tried of being called "Pokémon Trainer" all the time.

I'd sure hate for the only available Smash profile names to be "Players 1-4." Simile, not explicit comparison.

 

[-J-]

Unless your name is Pichu or Dr. Mario.

Ukelele Pichu Bros. and Tub Mario for SSB4!

The idea of both a Pokémon and one of its evolutionary relatives being playable in the same Smash Bros. game always bothered me. As does the idea of Doc.

I agree with that sentiment for the most part.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What MO just said. He's not Red. He's just a rep of them all.

Nah, he isn't the main character to me. More like a secondary character like Luigi is. Very important. But the thing is, if we have 5 slots, sure, I'd pick him over Lucario and Mewtwo. I'd like two new characters regardless. Basically, after the basic four(Pikachu, Jigglypuff, two new ones), my order of returners would be Pokemon Trainer, Mewtwo, Pichu, Lucario. But I doubt anyone would agree to this order or that idea.

I just feel that getting new Pokemon characters instead of bringing back the old ones is better since they have way too many potential characters. I'd rather use as many slots for new guys as possible.

 

[Johnknight1]

PT only represents how you play through the games. That's just a PC. The real main is still Pikachu and always will be. PT is at best a neat rep, but he's still not comparable to only one rep.

LOL nope. Outside of Japan, they always advertise with Pokémon Trainers, and nowadays in Japan they even put the Pokémon Trainer on most, if not all of their advertisements.

Cutting either of those would cut the franchise, not just a character. They're on different levels. And why the analogy doesn't work all that well. Simply put, it's too flawed.

While that may be a part of it, again, we're playing as characters, not franchises. If you want to play as the Super Mario Mushroom emblem, that's your opinion.

 

[Oasis_S]

John and Hyper arguing has to be the most painful thing ever.

 

[Johnknight1]

The idea of both a Pokémon and one of its evolutionary relatives being playable in the same Smash Bros. game always bothered me.

If Pichu wasn't awful in Melee and/or was completely unlike Pikachu, it probably wouldn't bother you (as much). (I know if either of scenarios happened, it wouldn't bug me)

As does the idea of Doc.

Doc was just a last minute roster size buffer, who basically was just a stronger Mario. If only Brawl Mario copied Dr. Mario instead of being a weak version of Melee Mario. Seriously, Mario in Brawl is stale, slow, boring, and is freaking weak. Oh, and his recovery is trash, too. I would take Melee Dr. Mario over Brawl Mario any day of the week.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

LOL nope. Outside of Japan, they always advertise with Pokémon Trainers, and nowadays in Japan they even put the Pokémon Trainer on most, if not all of their advertisements.

Except they're not a consistent character. We only can play as one version of PT in the game. And that's the FireRed/LeafGreen version. He's not even a really mishap. Every single PT is different. Just a generic hero. Pikachu, however, has a specific version. That seals the deal for me.

While that may be a part of it, again, we're playing as characters, not franchises. If you want to play as the Super Mario Mushroom emblem, that's your opinion.

You miss the entire point. Cutting Mr. Game & Watch cuts the entire franchise and all parts of it, not just a character. Cutting PT does not do this. That's why he can be cut, and why Mr. Game & Watch should never.

This does not mean PT has to be. Or should be. But he can be without any overall issues besides fans complaining. Which isn't a good enough reason. If he can make it back in, fine. If there's space, sure, go for it. But there's a lot of other choices that I'd pick first. I got my main rep already. PT isn't that one.

 

[FlareHabanero]

What if Pokemon Trainer was redesigned to be based around Hoenn instead of Kanto? You know, the trainer being based on Brendan and the Pokemon being Mudkip, Grovyle, and Blaziken.

I say this because there is a possibility that a remake of Ruby and Sapphire are possibly in development as we speak, and the fact 3rd gen didn't get a representation.

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ Meah, we all know the 1st Generation Pokémon and Pokémon games will always be everyone's favorite, and is more dear to our hearts than any other Pokémon Generation.

[COLLAPSE="Also, I found a picture of Oasis celebrating the release of Melee with a few friends..."]

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@Habanero: I'd be fine with that too. But that also gives us new characters and unless it's a second PT, the first one is literally cut for another.

@Johnknight1: I care little about an overrepped Generation. Was great for its time, but you got other parts to rep. We got everyone that's needed out of the 1st Gen, anyway. Meowth really... is only special due to the Anime. And that's it.

 

[Johnknight1]

Overrepped=??? Who cares if something can be considered "overrepped." We play as characters, not franchises.

^^^ You see that picture. They're playing as Mario, Bowser, Kirby, and King Dedede, not the damage percentage and the Mushroom Kingdom and Dreamland icons.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I don't really see how you could say PT is a secondary character? After all, it's not like the Pokemon games have the more conventional protagonist/deuteragonist/leading lady/antagonist set up like the Mario games do (in which Luigi is a deuteragonist). In the main Pokemon games, it's always just mostly about you and your Pokemon against other Trainers and their Pokemon. So the Pokemon Trainer has to be a main character. He shares the main role with the Pokemon themselves; a PT obviously can't be a PT without Pokemon to catch, and without a Trainer to catch them, and Pokemon can't serve any purpose to the game without a Trainer to train them. It's not like Pokemon have any more prominence in the games than the person you actually play as, so I can't see how you would say that PT is only a secondary character

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Hyper
Your arguments about other characters "should be in over the Pokémon Trainer" are all fine and dandy though. At least that is a legitimate argument.

Although I think you should consider that it is much easier to return past playable characters (specifically from Brawl) and to improve them and give them some new stuff than to add an entire new character from the ground up. The latter situation involves a lot more work. Thus, that is why I think keeping the current 39 and adding characters from there would make a bigger roster than slashing like 5 of them.

Edit: I found out what Omega is busy doing...

 

[FlareHabanero]

Sonic, Snake, Lucario, and Ike are probably not coming back. Everything else is very debatable.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

3rd parties are debatable, though it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't return at all.

 

[Johnknight1]

Sonic and Snake will probably be back, unless Nintendo and Konami and/or SEGA can't agree on a money split.

Seeing as how Kojima and Sakurai are friends, I doubt the money split would be an issue.

Judging by how Sonic in Brawl made both Nintendo and SEGA loads of cash, hype, and free advertising, I would bet on Sonic returning.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Last thing, I think people misunderstand the whole "overrepresentation" thing. I don't think putting in maybe 8-10 Pokemon out of 649 is "overrepping" it. I also think that overrepresentation is more like when you start including a bunch of minor, unnecessary characters for a series (Goomba, Daisy, Birdo, those type of characters), than just giving a series a lot of characters