New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

[glow]Do you guys think Geno still has a shot at getting in Sm4sh?[/glow]

Only if they can get a regular SE rep.

I don't see him likely as the only one, since, to be honest, he's still somewhat obscure. Going through legal routes to get an obscure character doesn't sound like a risk worth taking realistically.

If he was 1st/2nd party, it would be easy.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Only if they can get a regular SE rep.

I don't see him likely as the only one, since, to be honest, he's still somewhat obscure. Going through legal routes to get an obscure character doesn't sound like a risk worth taking realistically.

If he was 1st/2nd party, it would be easy.

I don't really see why people think hes such an outsider. His debut was in a Mario game on a Nintendo system so Nintendo should have some rights. He seems like he should be a 2nd party.

 

[Shorts]

If Sakurai doesn't actively do "SQUARE. I WANT GENO, NOT X Y AN Z, GENO" we will never see him. Square is ****ing ******** and doesn't know what fans want. They will shamelessly throw Moogle/BMage/Slime at us. Not that that's a bad thing, just, unless Sakurai GOES AFTER GENO, you won't get him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't really see why people think hes such an outsider. His debut was in a Mario game on a Nintendo system so Nintendo should have some rights. He seems like he should be a 2nd party.

They have zero rights to him because they didn't have a hand in creating him. All original content is completely owned by Square. As in they were the first ones to create it. SMRPG can be freely reference by Sakurai(like the use of pans), but he can't actually take that stuff from the game without their permission.

The game is actually third party, not second party. It was 2nd party at one time, when it was first made. But once SE went third party, any content they decided to keep was theirs and theirs alone. Mallow, Geno, Smithy, etc.(basically original enemies) are owned by them. As for the Chained Kong, they own it too, because they can own a parody version of a character/design.

So Nintendo does not have any rights to it. They had to pay SE to cameo Geno in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, to note.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Sakurai: "Can I use Geno?"

Mr. Square: "Who?"

Sakurai: "That guy from Mario RPG"

Mr. Square: "What the hell do I care if you use a Mario character?"

Sakurai: "I'll take that as a yes"

Everybody wins

 

[Wizzrobe]

If Sakurai doesn't actively do "SQUARE. I WANT GENO, NOT X Y AN Z, GENO" we will never see him. Square is ****ing ******** and doesn't know what fans want. They will shamelessly throw Moogle/BMage/Slime at us. Not that that's a bad thing, just, unless Sakurai GOES AFTER GENO, you won't get him.

I just don't see why Square has all the rights for Geno. Nintendo should at least have some rights for him.

[glow]Yes 1000 posts[/glow]

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Wizz
Unless that rumor about Nintendo trying to get the rights to use Square Enix character(s) was true and about Geno, I don't think Geno has much of a shot at all.

That's coming from a true Geno fan.

Also, the Masked Man would be a BAMF boss!

@ Psycho
Square Enix has to know who Geno is, because they've stated numerous times they own every original Super Mario RPG character. Also, Super Mario RPG requires a sequel with all of the playable characters returning, Luigi, and Wario being playable. If that didn't give you a fangasm, nothing will!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I just don't see why Square has all the rights for Geno. Nintendo should at least have some rights for him.

Geno's not a Nintendo character, Wizzrobe. He's a Mario character, but he's not a Nintendo one. He was created solely by SE, and why wouldn't the creator have the full rights? Being in a Mario games makes absolutely no difference, especially since SE actually created that game, not Nintendo. They were allowed to create a Mario game. But they still own the content they made. Unless Nintendo actually comes to an agreement to keep certain content from it, SE is the default owners.

SE then deserted Nintendo for the Sony Playstation. I don't see why they would want the content back from what were traitors. It made no sense at the time. Later on, they patched things up, but it's way too late to want their content back. If Nintendo cared enough, they'd ask for it. But they clearly don't, obviously.

 

[Wizzrobe]

@ Wizz
Unless that rumor about Nintendo trying to get the rights to use Square Enix character(s) was true and about Geno, I don't think Geno has much of a shot at all.

That's coming from a true Geno fan.

Also, the Masked Man would be a BAMF boss!

@ Psycho
Square Enix has to know who Geno is, because they've stated numerous times they own every original Super Mario RPG character. Also, Super Mario RPG requires a sequel with all of the playable characters returning, Luigi, and Wario being playable. If that didn't give you a fangasm, nothing will!

I don't think we will get a direct Mario RPG sequel. I think that the Paper Mario games and the Mario and Luigi RpG games are kind of their successors.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I read over the move-set, and it was better than I expected, though one can tell it had to be put in a lot of imagination to make it work. I'm still not so sure about his inclusion even from reading that. The only thing that seemed interesting was his Smash Attacks, really. As with all cases, I wouldn't be annoyed by his appearance, it just seems to be too much of a stretch compared to more natural choices. I suppose though that is suppose to be his allure, the fact that he is a stretch and quite the wild, amusing choice.

Edit: Yeah what John says, you did a good job, and coupled with better characters, it would be much better.

Also, we all know Ghirahim would be the sexiest choice. Next to hot-tub Palutena.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah, the Duck Hunt Dog requires too much work. Instead, we should get a retro character like Sukapon, Takamaru, etc. with move sets that can involve a lot of creativity, as well as write themselves.

I felt if you did that instead Arc your talents for creating move sets would be much better served.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Sukapon is the only one of those I'm rooting for, I did not enjoy Takmaru's game.

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ Have you seen speed runs of Takamaru's game=??? They look so incredibly awesome!

(I haven't played Escape from Muromsa Castle or whatever it is called yet, though)

 

[---]

^^^ Have you seen speed runs of Takamaru's game=??? They look so incredibly awesome!

(I haven't played Escape from Muromsa Castle or whatever it is called yet, though)

A hard as **** game but a great game none the less. For the most part, Takamaru's moveset writes itself.

I'm pretty sure Sukapon was ruled out a long time ago by Sakurai, not to mention I doubt Sakurai is interested in working on another fighting game right after he finishes not one, but two Smash games in a row.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sequel characters? I don't see why Geno or Mallow would return, to be honest. Maybe cameos, but the story has to include them.

I'd take Wario, Luigi, and Waluigi for an even 6, personally. If we want a 7nth, I'm fine with Toad, although I'm not sure what he could do compared to the rest in that game.

 

[yani]

I'd kill for a SMRPG remake/ sequel on 3DS..

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Triple Dash
Well, Sukapon was already in a fighting game (his own), so it isn't any stretch to see it happen. Plus Sakurai's mind may change. I mean really, he's crossing off his checklist of characters by a dozen (plus a few) each smash bros game. Eventually, he's gotta seriously re-consider characters he previously "crossed off" like Sukapon, the Urban Champion, the Mach Rider, the Excite Biker, the Balloon Fighter, the Animal Crosser, Miis, etc.

@ Stuff regarding Super Mario RPG
If the stars are in trouble, there is no reason not to add Geno or Mallow. Personally, I would love a Paper Mario game that had "the best of" Paper Mario series characters return, plus Geno and Mallow. If that was the case, I would DEMAND NINTENDO TO TAKE MY MONEY!!!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'd kill for a SMRPG remake/ sequel on 3DS..

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to help

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah, the Duck Hunt Dog requires too much work. Instead, we should get a retro character like Sukapon, Takamaru, etc. with move sets that can involve a lot of creativity, as well as write themselves.

I felt if you did that instead Arc your talents for creating move sets would be much better served.

Huh? Too much work? What do you mean by that?

Sequel characters? I don't see why Geno or Mallow would return, to be honest. Maybe cameos, but the story has to include them.

I'd take Wario, Luigi, and Waluigi for an even 6, personally. If we want a 7nth, I'm fine with Toad, although I'm not sure what he could do compared to the rest in that game.

Well, we will find out how a playable Toad is like in a RPG game when we get Paper Mario 3DS. One of the new partners seems to be a green Toad.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I'd kill for a SMRPG remake/ sequel on 3DS..

I am not so sure about that, I might kill something small, like a Diddy Kong.

Spoiler

Kidding of course. XD

I'm confident one day it will happen, because I know Nintendo would love to rake in that inevitable cash money.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd kill for a SMRPG remake/ sequel on 3DS..

No remake needed, but with SE on very good Nintendo terms, a sequel is definitely a fair possibility.

Also, what's there to remake? What issues does the game have? I mean, sure a port with more item slots, or equipment slots and regular item slots are separate, but...

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Holder
The Diddy Kong you refer to better not be a small, cute, and cool little monkey.

Huh? Too much work? What do you mean by that?

I mean like the Duck Hunt Dog is worth more of an effort than it's worth. I mean, Sakurai said Ridley seemed like it was worth too much effort in Brawl to make as a playable character. RIDLEY! The main villain of the largest Nintendo franchise without 2 playable characters in smash bros.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

He is THE Duck Hunt Dog after all.

Duck Hunt Dog: *laughs* *shot*

 

[yani]

Everyone should go and buy Xenoblade.

 

[Deleted member]

@BKupa666: 50 characters seems like a good relatively conservative number to follow, but if you were to add one more character, it would be Mii's, who are incredibly popular and Sakurai likely changed his mind on them.

The thing I like about your roster is that all of your newcomer choices are fine choices. All of them have good reasons to be in and I can't really say I'd complain about any of them. However, there are a few things I would like for you to touch up on.

First off, Star Fox. Wolf getting cut could happen, but it seems very unlikely. Krystal is highly requested still to this day, but Wolf was even more popular, so it's more likely Wolf would be in a three slot situation than Krystal and I would suspect Wolf would be planned ahead of Krystal (even if Krystal was a starter). Not something I'd throw a tantrum over (especially if the Wolf cut had to be done due to time), but cutting him is a bad decision. I feel as if anyone is getting cut due to time, it will be Lucario (who I feel will be planned to return).

And for Ike. I understand where you're probably coming from here, but I don't see why Ike needs to go. If anything, I would say that Krom and Roy are fighting for each other for the third spot and cutting Ike would be like cutting Mewtwo; especially if they replace Ike with a Krom that took his move set (which would be lame, especially since Krom can and should be unique). That said, preference wise, I'd rather have Krom and Roy.

Also, you need to specify your WTF? character. I understand that it may be hard to predict, but if you're going to put in a surprise choice, at least specify it.

I can't decide who's the sexiest potential newcomer, Zoroark, Dillon, or Masked Man?

Zoroark - Don't like his design at all and thinks he/she looks ugly.
Dillon - Looks cool, but not attractive.
Masked Man - Cute, but again, not attractive.

For sexiest potential newcomers for female, I'd say Palutena. As for males, I'm going to say Little Mac. I won't lie, he looks kind of hot in the remake (probably helps that I'm eighteen and he's seventeen in the game and I'm gay).

Do you guys think Geno still has a shot at getting in Sm4sh?

Yes, but it's a slim one. It all depends on how much Sakurai looks back at the Brawl poll. If he looks heavily at it, Geno may have a good shot, but I doubt he'll do that.

It's too bad he's third-party, or I would have been a lot more confident in his chances. I'd rather have him in over even Toad.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

SSBF, I thought you admitted the only reason why you didn't like Zoroark was because he got in the way of Victini...? I'm pretty sure you said that, now it seems like you hate its guts.

 

[Arcadenik]

I mean like the Duck Hunt Dog is worth more of an effort than it's worth. I mean, Sakurai said Ridley seemed like it was worth too much effort in Brawl to make as a playable character. RIDLEY! The main villain of the largest Nintendo franchise without 2 playable characters in smash bros.

Technically, the series already has two playable characters. Samus and Zero Suit Samus. What you meant is "the largest Nintendo franchise without 2 character slots". That would be more accurate.

But okay, I guess it may take some effort to come up with a good moveset that fits Duck Hunt Dog. I mean, if Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Mr. Game & Watch didn't really have much going for them but they worked out pretty well at the end... then I think the same could apply to Duck Hunt Dog if Sakurai really tried. And I am sure he will try his best to add Ridley as well.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Sakurai may be able to do it, the guy is pretty good at coming up with moves from nothing. I mean, the Climbers, Gamewatch, and Robby all are pretty well done. I just don't know if it can be done to the Duck Hunt Dog as well. We may see though, I'm just not going to bank on it.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

That right! Ridley needs to be playable since he is too important to be left out of being a fighter in a Nintendo All-Stars game and we need more dragons than just Charizard. No matter how many people say that he's "too big", they are biased and haters gonna hate. Then, when he gets revieled to be playable, they are all going to feel pretty stupid to know that they are all wrong.

 

[Johnknight1]

Technically, the series already has two playable characters. Samus and Zero Suit Samus. What you meant is "the largest Nintendo franchise without 2 character slots". That would be more accurate.

Samus and Zero Suit Samus are the same friggen character with 2 different move sets.

But okay, I guess it may take some effort to come up with a good moveset that fits Duck Hunt Dog. I mean, if Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Mr. Game & Watch didn't really have much going for them but they worked out pretty well at the end... then I think the same could apply to Duck Hunt Dog if Sakurai really tried. And I am sure he will try his best to add Ridley as well.

Mr. Game and Watch had dozens of games to draw upon. ROB had two games and a attachment for the NES/Famicom to draw inspiration upon. The Ice Climbers... have mallets and ice attacks. Their move set is nearly entirely based off that. Really, that's all you need.

Again, any character can be made into a viable character if you try hard enough. The question is whether they are worth the effort (possibly more of an effort than other characters in the case of Ridley and the Duck Hunt Dog), especially over other potential characters that could be in these forthcoming smash bros games instead.

That is the dilemma Sakurai is always in with these Smash Bros. games. I think we should all recognize the excellent effort & execution Sakurai has done with character selection.

 

[Deleted member]

SSBF, I thought you admitted the only reason why you didn't like Zoroark was because he got in the way of Victini...? I'm pretty sure you said that, now it seems like you hate its guts.

I have never been a fan of his design. It's like making a SSJ3 version of Lucario, painting it black and changing the species to a fox. It did nothing to impress me.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

That right! Ridley needs to be playable since he is too important to be left out of being a fighter in a Nintendo All-Stars game and we need more dragons than just Charizard. No matter how many people say that he's "too big", they are biased and haters gonna hate. Then, when he gets revieled to be playable, they are all going to feel pretty stupid to know that they are all wrong.

The second you are able to fit Ridley into Smashes programming, I'll listen.

I'm pretty sure it's impossible though

 

[Arcadenik]

Ice Climbers never had ice powers. I have played Ice Climber and they did not use ice powers at all. They use mallets, that's it. I think the Ice Climbers borrowed Topi's ice powers for Neutral Special move. Not sure where the Down Special move comes from as neither Topi nor Polar Bear had this... but there you go.

R.O.B. did not get his moves from those two games. However I strongly suspect his Side Special move originated from R.O.B. moving its arms around when you are playing Gyromite or Stack Up. And of course, the Down Special move comes from R.O.B. using the gyros when you are playing Gyromite.

And Sakurai considers Samus and Zero Suit Samus as separate characters despite the fact they are the same person.

That right! Ridley needs to be playable since he is too important to be left out of being a fighter in a Nintendo All-Stars game and we need more dragons than just Charizard. No matter how many people say that he's "too big", they are biased and haters gonna hate. Then, when he gets revieled to be playable, they are all going to feel pretty stupid to know that they are all wrong.

You know the funny thing is.... when Brawl came out and revealed that Ridley wasn't playable and he was, in fact, too big that he was a boss twice. The haters laughed at the fans and were like "We told you so! He is too big!" I wonder if history is about to repeat itself. Or the fans finally beat the trolls by having Ridley in Smash 4.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

John's point was that he had ice powers, you can pretty much do anything with that. Gamewatch also did have a lot to draw upon. R.O.B. had little to go on but he is a flipping robot, so I suppose that makes it pretty easy. Duck Hunt Dog has nothing to go on, and he is just a plain dog.

 

[Johnknight1]

Well I remember icicles in Ice Climber. As for the down B, forward B, and up B, those moves just make "sense." They seem like something the Ice Climbers would use.
Almost all of R.O.B.'s move come from the R.O.B. peripheral. Again, obvious inspiration and attacks.

If Sakurai considered Samus/ZSS "different characters," then why doesn't ZSS have a icon on the main menu like all of the other transformation characters=??? (EXACTLY!)

Also, I can't wait for the death of the Ridley haters. They are friggen annoying. All their argument ever is is "Ridley is too big. "Too big" my butt.
When Ridley is confirmed as playable (not if), we need to hold a ceremony in honor of thy true religion... RIDLEY!!!

Edit: What Holder said.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

*has played as Master Hand in 64 that uses a similar programming for all bosses* What issues?

Oh, that he'd be slightly floaty like Mewtwo?

That he'd be smaller?

I see no issues here. Only thing big is his tail, and even then, that can be balanced with poor knockback or bad priority.

 

[Deleted member]

@Johnknight1: Funny how the hate for Ridley is almost dead on GameFAQs. It pleases me that Vaztor is no longer around.

 

[Johnknight1]

The Ridley haters are the same few people who probably don't even play smash bros or have ever played a Metroid game.

Besides, he's a friggen GIANT DRAGON DINOSAUR THING THAT NEVER DIES!

If you don't want to play as that, you don't like fun.

That or you want Smash Bros. to be exclusive for little kids (which characters like Bowser, Mewtwo, Captain Falcon, Snake, etc. kind of killed already).

 

[Arcadenik]

John's point was that he had ice powers, you can pretty much do anything with that. Gamewatch also did have a lot to draw upon. R.O.B. had little to go on but he is a flipping robot, so I suppose that makes it pretty easy. Duck Hunt Dog has nothing to go on, and he is just a plain dog.

I came up with a moveset for Duck Hunt Dog. There's one move that was inspired by Wolf Link's basic attacks since they are both canines. There's like a couple moves loosely inspired by Banjo-Kazooie's Rat-a-Tat-Rap and Beak Barge involving the duck. The rest are made up and the most of the specials were based on how we played Duck Hunt.

[COLLAPSE="Normal Moves"]A+A+A
The dog bites two times and then chases his tail around once.

Side+A
The dog grabs a duck by its neck and swings it around like a rubber chicken.

Up+A
The dog tosses a duck up in the air. The duck spins in place and pecks enemies around.

Down+A
The dog crouches and scratches in front of him. This move can cause the opponent to trip.

Running A
The dog runs on all fours. The duck lunges over the dog's head and pecks repeatedly.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Smash Moves"]Smash Side+A
The dog points his finger to the side, directing the hunter, the person playing Duck Hunt with the Zapper, to shoot there. The gunfire explosion appears just beyond the tip of the dog's finger.

Smash Up+A
The dog points his finger above his head, directing the hunter to shoot there. The hunter from the fourth wall shoots just above the tip of the dog's finger.

Smash Down+A
The dog points his finger down at the opponent's feet, goading the Duck Hunt player to "make them dance". Gunfire explosions appear on the ground just beyond the dog's finger.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Aerial Moves"]Air A
The dog tosses a duck in the air. The duck quickly flies around the dog, pecking nearby enemies.

Air Forward+A
The duck lunges out over the dog's back and pecks repeatedly.

Air Back+A
The dog does a quick back flip and as the dog is turning upside down, a duck quickly lunges out to peck. This one is useful as a Meteor Smash.

Air Up+A
The dog holds onto two ducks by their feet. The ducks flap wildly, attacking nearby enemies with their wings.

Air Down+A
This is a stall-then-fall move where the dog pounces on an opponent and they fall down to the ground together with the dog on top.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Throws"]Grab
The dog uses his chain leash to reel in an opponent. The leash can also be used as a tether recovery if needed.

Pummel
The dog holds the opponent by their necks and bites them in the face.

Forward Throw
The dog bites the opponent and shakes his head like the opponent is a rag toy and then tosses them away.

Back Throw
The dog uses his chain leash to whip the opponent overhead behind him.

Up Throw
The dog gives the opponent a heave-ho and then two ducks carry the opponent before the duck hunter shoots the opponent down.

Down Throw
The dog pounces and then mauls the opponent.[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Special Moves"]B: Trick Shooting
This is based on how the second player is able to control the duck with the NES controller plugged into the P2 controller port. The dog pulls out a duck and the duck begins flying. As long as you hold down the B button, you retain control of the duck's flight path with the control stick but the dog is immobile during the flight. When you want the Duck Hunt player to shoot down the duck, simply release the B button. This move is useful for shooting out-of-reach enemies above or below solid platforms - for example, the dog is on the bottom side of Spear Pillar and Pikachu is on the top side of said stage. Guiding a duck from the bottom side to the top side and releasing the B button near Pikachu would hurt Pikachu when it is caught in a powerful gunfire explosion. Very tricky, indeed.

Side+B: Clay Shooting
This is based on the Clay Shooting mode in Duck Hunt. The dog tosses a clay pigeon like the magician and the bunny girl did in Barker Bill's Trick Shooting. You can control the trajectory of the clay pigeon with the control stick. The person who is playing Duck Hunt from the fourth wall shoots the clay pigeon when it collides with an opponent. This is a simple projectile attack with excellent range and decent knockback.

Up+B: Fly Away
The dog pulls out two ducks and hangs on to their feet. The three of them then fly away together. When the dog is flying with two ducks, his flight is speedy and lasts longer. When the dog gets hit while flying with two ducks, he loses one duck. When the dog is flying with only one duck, his flight is slower and lasts shorter. When the dog gets hit while flying with one duck, he loses it and he is unable to fly again until he lands on the ground. When the dog is flying, you can control the flight path with the control stick.

Down+B: Laugh
Many people always wanted to shoot the dog for laughing at them. How is this translated into a Smash move? First, the dog faces the screen and laughs when you press Down+B. As soon the dog laughs, the hunter from the fourth wall immediately shoots the dog. Now, what makes this move a high-risk, high-reward move is that if the dog is overlapping with an opponent when he is laughing... that opponent suffers an one-hit KO because the duck hunter shot that character instead of the dog. If the dog is not overlapping with an opponent and he is laughing... well, he suffers 10% damage and gets stunned for a second. This technique is not recommended for beginners.

Final Smash: Open Season
This move lets you play as the person who is playing Duck Hunt. You are given three shots, just like in the original game, and each shot can one-hit KO enemies if your aim is good. The NES Zapper appears out in front of the screen along with the crosshairs that you control with the control stick. Press the B button when you want to shoot your opponent. Sounds easy, right? Wrong. Dozens of ducks are flying back and forth all over the stage, making it difficult for you to aim at the enemies. If an opponent is shot, the dog appears out from the grass holding that opponent. If you failed to shoot an opponent, the dog laughs at you when the Final Smash ends and then you retain control of the dog.[/COLLAPSE]

There's also this video where the people who worked on a fan-game called Super Smash Bros. Crusade and they actually put in Duck Hunt Dog as a playable character.

 

[Johnknight1]

@Johnknight1: Funny how the hate for Ridley is almost dead on GameFAQs. It pleases me that Vaztor is no longer around.

I think another part of it is that with more limited options for characters, denying Ridley has a good shot at being playable is straight up stupid now.

All of the potential Brawl newcomer heavyweight characters in terms of popularity and support are all playable in Brawl... except Ridley (and Mega Man, but that's a 3rd party character). Diddy Kong, Toon Link, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Lucario, Lucas, Ike, Pit, Wario, Sonic, etc.