New Olimar Concept

[ForgottenLabRat]

So something that has always bothered me in games is luck. I hate games that rely too heavily on luck for someone to win, and I think Olimar has this problem and drives many players away from him because of that which is sad because of how cool and unique a character he is. Anyways I have been thinking of ways to remove the huge luck factor in Olimar, by Making Manadolimar (Name is subject to change)! Basically making all his pikmin the same type and using down B will change them all to another type. I will explain this more in depth below.

Note: Of course what I am describing won't be balanced if you take it word for word

Concept: Shulk (sort of) + Olimar

Changes:
Purple Pikmin: have increased damage, but attack slower (not move speed, just ending/starting lag)
Blue Pikmin: weaker damage overall, better grabs, but heals on hit (something along the lines of 20% of damage dealt)
Red Pikmin: Fire(more hitstun), more powerful aerials, but everything else is weakened
Yellow Pikmin: electric(more hitstun), weak aerials, smash attacks do less damage but stun like ZSS Dsmash
White Pikmin: Very weak everything, but causes your opponent to move slower than normal for small amount of time (I might change this as it could be very annoying to fight against)

Neutral B would only pick one kind of pikmin so they are all the same (ex: 4 red pikmin)
Down B will change the color of all the pikmin to another color
I was thinking about Olimar being able to cancel the ending lag of a move with DownB, but thought it too powerful.
Side B has more properties than just damage over time (They have cooler effects)
Purple: Normal, so just hitback
Blue: Does no damage but heals Olimar while attached to the opponent
Red: While the red pikmin are on the other person they receive more knock back and hitstun from attacks
Yellow: stun like ZSS Dsmash, but for not very long
White: do a lot of damage per second and make the opponent flinch.
Note: Pikmin on the opponent will stay their type of pikmin until released or just get killed

Tell me what you guys think. This concept was me just having a lot of free time plus a love for Smash. This is in no way even intended to be put in the game or anything but more of ideas for unique character design.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

So something that has always bothered me in games is luck. I hate games that rely too heavily on luck for someone to win, and I think Olimar has this problem and drives many players away from him because of that which is sad because of how cool and unique a character he is. Anyways I have been thinking of ways to remove the huge luck factor in Olimar, by Making Manadolimar (Name is subject to change)! Basically making all his pikmin the same type and using down B will change them all to another type. I will explain this more in depth below.

Note: Of course what I am describing won't be balanced if you take it word for word

Concept: Shulk (sort of) + Olimar

Changes:
Purple Pikmin: have increased damage, but attack slower (not move speed, just ending/starting lag)
Blue Pikmin: weaker damage overall, better grabs, but heals on hit (something along the lines of 20% of damage dealt)
Red Pikmin: Fire(more hitstun), more powerful aerials, but everything else is weakened
Yellow Pikmin: electric(more hitstun), weak aerials, smash attacks do less damage but stun like ZSS Dsmash
White Pikmin: Very weak everything, but causes your opponent to move slower than normal for small amount of time (I might change this as it could be very annoying to fight against)

Neutral B would only pick one kind of pikmin so they are all the same (ex: 4 red pikmin)
Down B will change the color of all the pikmin to another color
I was thinking about Olimar being able to cancel the ending lag of a move with DownB, but thought it too powerful.
Side B has more properties than just damage over time (They have cooler effects)
Purple: Normal, so just hitback
Blue: Does no damage but heals Olimar while attached to the opponent
Red: While the red pikmin are on the other person they receive more knock back and hitstun from attacks
Yellow: stun like ZSS Dsmash, but for not very long
White: do a lot of damage per second and make the opponent flinch.
Note: Pikmin on the opponent will stay their type of pikmin until released or just get killed

Tell me what you guys think. This concept was me just having a lot of free time plus a love for Smash. This is in no way even intended to be put in the game or anything but more of ideas for unique character design.

So for starters, I think the PM team has done quite a bit to make Olimar less random. His Pikmin have a general baseline on attributes and some just do something better than others. I think he's really close to the sweet spot now.

The character you're pitching is virtually the embodiment of luck. It essentially means that any attack you do is far less useful than the one that is good. And when one Pikmin does happen to land the action you wanted that Pikmin to do, you a get an amazing effect. The balance is way off for this kind of character. The Side B you pitch is also incredibly powerful. Blue healing in general weather it's 20% of damage dealt or it just passively healing while it's attached is extremely strong. Imagine 4 Blue Pikmin (which would be really easy to get from your method) all healing 3+% per hit. You'd essentially have to 0 death him to take a stock.

I also know that you don't think these changes should be given to the PM olimar. I'm just giving you feedback on what I think is wrong with the idea.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

So for starters, I think the PM team has done quite a bit to make Olimar less random. His Pikmin have a general baseline on attributes and some just do something better than others. I think he's really close to the sweet spot now.

The character you're pitching is virtually the embodiment of luck. It essentially means that any attack you do is far less useful than the one that is good. And when one Pikmin does happen to land the action you wanted that Pikmin to do, you a get an amazing effect. The balance is way off for this kind of character. The Side B you pitch is also incredibly powerful. Blue healing in general weather it's 20% of damage dealt or it just passively healing while it's attached is extremely strong. Imagine 4 Blue Pikmin (which would be really easy to get from your method) all healing 3+% per hit. You'd essentially have to 0 death him to take a stock.

I also know that you don't think these changes should be given to the PM olimar. I'm just giving you feedback on what I think is wrong with the idea.

Thanks for replying, I was looking for some feed back.

In terms of the side B that could easily be fixed by just saying that they abilities don't stack. Could you elaborate on the part about being the embodiment of luck? Are you saying that people will just use the most powerful pikmin? Because that is the part that makes this idea flawed, is that it would be next to impossible to balance.As for the passive healing, maybe just 10% which would mean that a 20% fsmash would heal 2% instead of 4%.

Of course these changes would unbalanced the character no ****, but they could made up for just making his normal stuff worse like damage and speed or something along those lines.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

Thanks for replying, I was looking for some feed back.

In terms of the side B that could easily be fixed by just saying that they abilities don't stack. Could you elaborate on the part about being the embodiment of luck? Are you saying that people will just use the most powerful pikmin? Because that is the part that makes this idea flawed, is that it would be next to impossible to balance.As for the passive healing, maybe just 10% which would mean that a 20% fsmash would heal 2% instead of 4%.

Of course these changes would unbalanced the character no ****, but they could made up for just making his normal stuff worse like damage and speed or something along those lines.

Sure I'll elaborate. First off though, not having the Side B effects stack still doesn't balance it. All of those effects are incredibly powerful and it gives you more of an edge than Shulk in Sm4sh.

Your pitch is the embodiment of luck because essentially, if you're not hitting with the pikmin best suited for that situation, you're going to have a lack luster effect and you're unlucky because you didn't hit with that red aerial. If you did hit with the right pikmin, you'd be lucky because any other Pikmin would not have been able to take the stock.

The current Olimar has some luck attributes, but it's largely mitigated by having a core baseline of speed and KB. Yellow and White aren't you're best killers but Blue, Red and especially Purple can do the trick well enough, and when it's time, you will likely have at least 3 of them in your lineup.

Also, Healing is bad. Ivy can have it cuz its not a lot when she gets it, and it puts her in a vulnerable position if she attempts it. If Olimar could heal 50% in a match (25 hits from a blue, which if using your pikmin pluck idea wouldn't be hard to do,) it would put Olimar at the top of tiers easily. ZSS Stun is also bad. It's too powerful to be tossed around and especially if you could activate it off an aerial.

Basically, I think all of the attributes are too powerful. It's cool that they are really different and all, but with a character like Olimar, things can get out of hand really quickly.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

So with the Luck aspect, do you think that Olikmar changes all his pikmin when he uses an attack to a different color? That is not what I mean. You will stay with the single kind of pikmin you have till you switch. Yes of course this would be OP if you just put these changes without nerfing a lot of stuff about Olimar, but I said this earlier and it feels kind of implied because something like this would be a huge buff.

In terms of the healing, Ivy heals off her all her pollen attacks so an upthrow upair which heals 12% in an almost guaranteed combo and isn't risky at all. Also healing 10% of Olimar's damage on hit with blue pikmin healing 50% in an entire match would mean dealing around 500% with only blue which doesn't seem likely (yes this isn't including the side B but I don't think it would add a huge amount). As for the stun with Yellow, the ZSS stun only applies to smash attacks not aerials.