New Luigi player looking for some tips/ advice.

[ConeZ]

Alright, so I would like to begin with that I have been playing Melee for a month after around a year and a half of Project M, so like although I am not like awful at the mechanics, I am still getting used to the slight difference of physics. It is weird because it is so slightly different xD

But anyways, I was just wondering a few things because I have kinda decided on Luigi as my main in part because I have always liked Weegee, and he is fun to play.
As an asterisk to this post, I'd like to say that I am completely open to being directed to guides or other posts, I was just frustrated sifting through old posts that seem like they may be a bit outdated.
go

1) I understand that being a mid tier main, life is gonna be hard, but in my local friendlies, the only character that really gave me this feeling of insurmountable frustration is Marth, and I was wondering if I could be directed to a place where people have good advice on how to deal with him, or if it is recommended to just pick up a secondary for the MU because even if his other MUs are hard, they are generally still fun, but Marth just isn't for me at this point, particularly because even when I get in, it doesn't seem like my punish game is even that good against him.

2) I looked up how to Platform Cancel Nair, and I tried to do it at home, and I just can't get the timing. Can someone give me the specific frame data, so I can try to figure it out?

3) Is there a genuinely useful application for vudu dashing other than just style? (granted.... style is important)

4) I generally try to go for shield, f-tilt, jab, or down smash for my approaches, or I try to WD just out of range to feign an approach and punish their response, and I was wondering if there was anything else I should throw in as well (aside from grabs because I also do that sometimes)?
I am aware that Luigi is a character that heavily relies on mixups, and I wanna make sure I know all the neutral game mixups, so please gimme all your mixups xD

5)I have realized that there seem to be a few really bad situations like high % Falcon d throw > knee where it seems like there is no way to get out of the death combo. Is there a good reference for how to DI what moves optimally for Luigi's survival? (to get out of the death combos, or at least make it the MOST difficult for my opponent).

6) GENERAL KNOWLEDGE NOTE: Anybody got tips on how to SDI? I could really use some good instruction on that.

7) What types of situations should be looking for to set up SHORYUKENs?

 

[Thomdore]

1. The Marth matchup was the first I really struggled with aswell, I can only say...it gets alot better. I would not pick up a secondary for this matchup, or any matchup really cause I think they are doable for Luigi. Atleast for my skillcap, and if Abate can make close sets with M2K's Sheik/Marth, nothing should stop you from doing the same.

My common approaches:
You can approach him with shield, spotdodge, ftilt's (if he likes too CC->dtilt) and uptilt/upsmash if he tends too jump alot.

Combos for Marth is absolutely doable.

2. Platform Cancelled Nair, is done within 7 frames. 4 frames too fall through platform, 2 frame window too press A and then L-cancel it. Its fine if you don't L-cancel it I think, you just have alot of recover time. On the 7th frame Luigi will drop through the platform, and you pressed A too late.

3. Vududash is something I use in matches when I need too get from A->B fast. Not very often, but I do it. Top platform too ledge, side platform too ledge other side...etc.
Sometimes I go for a risky edgeguard offstage, just for stylepoints...not super optimal, but your opponent won't see it comeing.

4. Jab->Grab is super solid, if your opponent jump much try upsmash/uptilt (Solid against falcon's). SH dair/fair is great aswell

5. Down and away is your friend, it's still not impossible for him too hit, but you make it harder, and you may be able too tech. Don't hold down and away if he push you offstage tho, and you know it's his last knee/upair, then you should hold up and in.

 

[ConeZ]

Thanks for the info man, I appreciate it! Especially the PC nair stuff, it is nice to know that the crouch through platform frames are the same(?) as Weegee's jump squat, so that should help me a lot.

Also, I remembered one more question I am gonna add to the main post.

 

[Thomdore]

Also on the question of PC Nair, you MUST hit an opponent, and the stick need too be back in neautral position before you hit A.

7. UpB setups I can think of: Soft Nair->UpB, Jab->UpB(Best on floaties), UpB OOS after dashattacks, badly spaced ariels and such, spotdodge->UpB.

A great way too kill Falcon's and Sheiks that you edgeguard; If you time your regular getup perfectly, they can't grab ledge and are forced on stage. If they land on stage, you can simply walk up and UpB them. If they go high over ledge (Sheik) or fade back (Falcon) just turn around and Ftilt. If sheik/falcon land on a platform, jump up and punish.

You should really think through before you do theese, cause you will get punished if you miss an UpB.
It should be a kill, or atleast what you go for. It's the best rest punish imo, 25% is great on puff.

 

[ConeZ]

Also on the question of PC Nair, you MUST hit an opponent, and the stick need too be back in neautral position before you hit A.

7. UpB setups I can think of: Soft Nair->UpB, Jab->UpB(Best on floaties), UpB OOS after dashattacks, badly spaced ariels and such, spotdodge->UpB.

A great way too kill Falcon's and Sheiks that you edgeguard; If you time your regular getup perfectly, they can't grab ledge and are forced on stage. If they land on stage, you can simply walk up and UpB them. If they go high over ledge (Sheik) or fade back (Falcon) just turn around and Ftilt. If sheik/falcon land on a platform, jump up and punish.

You should really think through before you do theese, cause you will get punished if you miss an UpB.
It should be a kill, or atleast what you go for. It's the best rest punish imo, 25% is great on puff.

Thanks, all of this will be duely noted! I am going to lab it up tonight xD

 

[Stride]

2) I looked up how to Platform Cancel Nair, and I tried to do it at home, and I just can't get the timing. Can someone give me the specific frame data, so I can try to figure it out?

http://smashboards.com/threads/drop-cancelled-nair-help.362087/#post-17132440

5)I have realized that there seem to be a few really bad situations like high % Falcon d throw > knee where it seems like there is no way to get out of the death combo. Is there a good reference for how to DI what moves optimally for Luigi's survival? (to get out of the death combos, or at least make it the MOST difficult for my opponent).

Down throw to knee is guaranteed at kill damages as far as I'm aware (in which case if you can't get onto a platform to tech, then semi-randomly mixing up your DI in an attempt to throw off your opponent is probably the best course of action). Away or down and away is generally the combo DI you want, but it varies depending on the situation.

6) GENERAL KNOWLEDGE NOTE: Anybody got tips on how to SDI? I could really use some good instruction on that.

Kadano's video on DI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RP3sbS7Dm0

You want to SDI combo moves, such that you move yourself too far away for their followups to connect (things like Falco's dair to shine, or any multihit moves).

7) What types of situations should be looking for to set up SHORYUKENs?

• Soft nair: I couldn't tell you what DI it works on, but even if the opponent's DI on the nair doesn't set up for up-B then you'll still be able to convert something else off it (aerial, forward smash, etc.), so it's not a gimmick option by any means. Smash DI away on the nair probably stops up-B from ever connecting.

◦ Soft nair to grounded up-B starts working on spacies reliably very slightly before it starts to kill (around 80%). There are setups like wavedash to a rising fastfall nair where you hit the opponent as you fall, then up-B (out of a dash if necessary) to catch them as they come down. The weaker the nair and the sooner you land the better. Up tilt sets up for the nairs well. Particularly effective on Falco. There are more situations it works in than just these, so keep it in mind.
◦ From a rising fullhop soft nair, you can connect double jump->aerial up-B on fastfallers. It kills off the top significantly earlier than nair does, though not by much. You'll mostly be doing this near the top platform, since it's too weak to kill lower down and you'll probably need the platform to jump off. Particularly effective on Falcon. You'll be able to get nair->nair far more than nair->up-B, since nair is easier to space.​

• Down throw to up-B: works on spacies at approximately 100-125% if they DI in (but not on any other DI), and kills. However, since forward smash either kills or nearly kills with the same setup and also covers no DI, it's usually a better option in that situation.
• Jab to up-B on floaties.
• Punishing Rest (even when it doesn't kill, it's a guaranteed 25 damage, which is more than you'd be able to get off anything else).
• Punishing laggy onstage recoveries (most notably Sheik's and Falcon's). A lot of the time you can regular climb from the ledge (covering recoveries to the ledge), and be able to up-B the opponent if they recover onstage.
• Punishing laggy or poorly spaced attacks on your shield. If the opponent is right inside of you then you can up-B straight out of shield. If they're out of range, then you can wavedash out of shield first (you can even punish Marth's tipper forward smash on shield like that).
• Punishing whiffed laggy moves (Marth forward smash, Falcon Kick, etc.).
• Punishing moves out of spotdodge.