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Smash Wii U New Crazy Orders Tradeoff Strategy (THD vs. FHQ)

David Wonn

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
608
Location
Ohio
I have been experimenting in Crazy Orders lately since I have well over 100 tickets to use. By now everyone knows the current "First Strike, Home Run, Quick Batter" setup, which I shall refer to as FHQ. For most characters it may very well be the best setup if you're trying to maximize the number of rounds possible in ten minutes. But for some, I have come up with an alternative:

Trade-Off Defender
Home-Run Bat
Desperate Immortal

The "THD" setup probably looks insane, so allow me to explain:

Trade-Off Defender equipment starts you out with 30% damage, with the tradeoff of only taking 0.8 times the normal damage. In Crazy Orders, that means it actually ADDS 30% damage to the start of each round. That probably already sounds ludicrous.

The Home-Run Bat is obvious. There is simply no faster way to clear giant and metal matches.

Desperate Immortal gives 7 seconds of invincibility when your damage reaches 100% (or higher, in fact.) And this is where the beauty of this setup lies.

Essentially the way this works is that your early rounds will have no invincibility at all, so you will be vulnerable. Even if you clear the first round without getting hit, your damage will gradually rise from one round to the next, until it eventually tapers off. The game always multiplies your damage at the end of a round by 0.7, rounding to the nearest integer percent, and that is what you have on the selection screen for the next round. You will then get 30% tacked on as you start the next round.

Eventually the damage will taper off, starting with 71% on the selection screen and starting every round with 101% damage, which is just enough for the invincibility to kick in. So after a few rounds (if not sooner) you will ALWAYS begin each round invincible! That's right, you don't even have to land the first strike anymore; it is automatic.

So which characters benefit from this? Lucario is perhaps the most likely candidate for obvious aura reasons. This may also be the most ideal setup for speedy characters with no forward projectiles, like Captain Falcon and Sonic. While my Captain Falcon using THD has not yet surpassed my record number of turns with Fox (82) or Zero Suit Samus (60) using FHQ, I did get halfway there in half the time, so it looks promising.

So to summarize, I will list the pros and cons of using THD over FHQ.

Pros of THD:

+ Always get invincibility in later matches. You have no worries of landing the first strike anymore!
+ Later matches tend to be faster with this setup. Just run up and swing bat without any other preemptive strike.
+ Giant battles are arguably easier. Under FHQ, they are more likely to evade your first strike in later rounds, nullifying advantage.
+ Always start the final boss battle with a decent number of hit points. You have to gamble more under FHQ.
+ Some characters can be invincible twice! (See below.)

Cons of THD:

- Only get 7 seconds of invincibility instead of 10, so make each strike count, as you are far more vulnerable afterward!
- Early matches could be longer and certainly more vulnerable, so get your damage up early or just be efficient.
- No invincibility in the final boss battle, so capitalize on your decent HP level.
- No room in inventory to add Quick Batter since the three bonus effects are extremely co-dependent.
- No means to delay invincibility, except for certain characters (see below)

As you can see, the cons may outweigh the pros for most characters, but for some, this will be better. Some characters, in fact, can benefit from getting the invincibility TWICE in a round. Robin, Wario, and Wii Fit Trainer can very easily lower damage from 101% to 99% with Nosferatu, eating bike (parts), and Steady Breathing / Sun Salutation, respectively, due to how easy it is to hover right near the magic 100% mark in this setup. If you then take light damage, and I emphasize light, then you can get another deferred 7 seconds of invincibility! This is of course risky, but may be a life saver if you are forced to go to a large stage with multiple opponents.

Try it out and see what you think!
 

Thor

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
2,009
Location
UIUC [school year]. MN [summer]
I had not really put thought into Crazy Orders much [especially since being at college means I don't have my Wii U with me], and so I didn't know people had already dug this deep into crazy orders. I still need that "20 turns playing as Mario" thing and seeing here two different strategies to beating it is helpful. If I get around to trying both theses strategies over spring break I'll try to remember to post feedback here.
 

David Wonn

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
608
Location
Ohio
I decided to try my new strategy with Mario just to prove it works. Although I did go to 22 turns with more than enough time to spare, I'd definitely recommend the older FHQ strategy with him if your main target is to just get 20 turns for the purposes of completing his challenge. FHQ works better with him since he already has a good forward projectile. Fast Fireball allows you to get the first strike relatively easy with him. You may even swap out the Quick Batter with Auto-Healer or Vampire equipment to ensure your damage stays low (though this is a double-edged sword when you want to get into the final boss battle.) Quick Batter is mainly used for purposes of going far beyond 20 turns (though it does give you more chances to connect your swing while still invincible.)

If you do decide to go with the newer THD strategy, I changed Fast Fireball to Fire Orb, since I no longer needed a quick projectile for purposes of getting first strike. Fire Orb is especially handy on giants, as it can keep them stunned long enough to get a good swing at them with your bat. It doesn't make metal characters flinch, but they're already easier to deal with.

Each strategy has its own quirks, so if you are used to using FHQ, it may take several tickets to un-train yourself from one strategy while learning the other.
 
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LiamMail

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
283
NNID
Liam5d26
is the home run badge obtained randomly or by challenges?
 

David Wonn

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
608
Location
Ohio
^

As far as I know, they seem to be random. I try to play a decent balance of all the different game modes (Classic, All-Star, Master/Crazy Orders, Event Matches, even Smash Tour, etc.) so that I can acquire as much equipment as possible. At first you may only have the needed equipment with certain characters, but eventually you will acquire equipment that works with all characters. Playing Crazy Orders even with just one character who has FHQ or THD can really help accelerate the process.

For a quick way to see if even one of your characters has home-run equipment, customize any character, then go to sell equipment (but don't actually sell anything.) This is a handy way to see all characters' equipment in one place. Sometimes you can tell by the name of equipment as to which characters it works for (Dresses obviously work for the princesses, ties work for Dr. Mario and DK, etc.)
 
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David Wonn

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
608
Location
Ohio
The hats were definitely among my final 10 challenges to complete. The hat I wanted most was the Samus helmet, which ended up being among the last few to obtain (go figure.)

Back on topic, the THD strategy can be taken to an extreme with Lucario with one substitution. Instead of Trade-off Defender, you could go with All-round Trade-off equipment. It adds 60% damage to every match, but gradually increases attack, defense, and speed. If you choose to go this route, then only the first match will be without invincibility. Eventually, your damage will stay in the 139 - 141% range on the selection screen, starting all the later matches with 199 - 201% damage. It is quite fun to play Lucario under these conditions since you get to use his aura to the max. A fully charged neutral B shot delivers quite a blow if you run out of your seven seconds of invincibility. Just don't get hit, though, and don't use anyone other than Lucario in this extreme alteration of the strategy.
 

Chocoroko

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
46
Location
Denton, TX
NNID
Chocoroko
This is an interesting set up. But its hard for me to navigate through all my special moves to find the ones I'm recommended, like Quick Bat. I could really use it, but I don't see sight of it. I also notice each character has specific special moves. Are the moves in THD and FHQ exclusive to certain characters?
 

David Wonn

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
608
Location
Ohio
^

Change your sort options to Alphabetical with L or R on the Gamecube controller, or whatever the equivalent is on other control schemes. You can scroll through your equipment inventory faster with left and right as opposed to up and down, btw.

As for customizing special moves, you will want to modify it differently depending on whether you are going with the older FHQ strategy or the newer THD strategy.

If you go with FHQ, pick a neutral special that makes it easiest to land the first strike. Bowser's Fire Shot and Mii Swordfighter's Gale Strike are absolutely SICK because they can activate first strike even while penetrating shields, even if your opponent takes no damage! The latter even KOs hordes, strangely enough. Outside of those two ridiculously useful specials, go with a fast, ranged projectile like Mario's fast fireball, Dr. Mario's fast capsule, Zero Suit Samus's blast shot, or even Fox's default laser.

If you go with THD, you have a little more flexibility in setting up specials. Your invincibility is automatic in later rounds, so you don't even need to tweak your specials to account for first strike anymore. Instead, go with something more stunning or more damaging like Zero Suit Samus's default paralyzer or Mario's fire orb. This can aid in setting up your home run bat swing in case you initially miss. If your character lacks such moves, then you can always customize in a way that it beneficial for the final battle if you prefer.
 
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