New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[trojanpooh]

The bias in this analysis:

-Implying discussion on Pichu is messing up this thread. This is where clone engine speculation goes and Pichu discussion is every bit as valid as any other character
-Saying Pichu is objectively a bad choice when he is the only character aside from the doc and Young Link who has a voice, a moveset, and fans based on playstyle. Oh, and who can forget actual tangible evidence that the PMBR is considering him?

Aside from that seems like a good interpretation of the numbers, though it may give them too much weight, implying that anyone is likely based on anything from this thread seems silly.

 

[andalsoandy]

If the PM team really wanted, for Louie they could have the announcer call be a cut off of Luigi's.

It would be stupid as hell but would be funny and could work.

It could work.

I did that to make Lucario's and Lucas' announcer call with the Melee announcer.

It's on BrawlVault, btw.

 

[HayabusaTaichou]

Can we talk about why Ganondorf mains are so adamant about the character they play being Ganondorf? No ******** no fighting. I'm honestly a little confused about the situation.

Are the people who play him actually LoZ fans that just like this sort of kung fu action Ganondorf or have they just become attached to his image from playing Smash? If it's the former I can kinda understand where they're coming from but if it's the latter not so much. Would you actually be put off from playing the moveset if you are playing it as Black Shadow and if so is it because you really want to play as Ganondorf or because you really don't want to play as Black Shadow?

Personally as a LoZ and F-Zero fan I do want an authentic moveset for Ganondorf but also I think I would actually want to play the existing moveset more if it was on Black Shadow as it seems pretty much perfect for him.

 

[Knight Dude]

Well if it isn't too late, I'd like to say I like the idea of Dark Samus and Ridley. Though obviously I'd like to see Ridley in Smash 4 more. I don't see Dark Samus as a strong possibility, so Project M would be a cool way to have players use the character. I'd also like to see what ways Samus can have a Luigi-like semi clone. With Dark Samus clearly being the optimal choice.

Also, as someone who likes using Ganondorf, I have no issue if most of his moveset was given to Black Shadow, provided that Ganon was more unique that is.

 

[Crixler]

My list would probably be something like...

Ganondorf/Black Shadow
Isaac
Skull Kid

I'd also like to see either Ridley or Dark Samus, though I don't have a strong preference for which one it would be.

I'm a big Fire Emblem fan, but I don't really want to see either Lyn or Hector. We already have Roy representing the Elibe games, so it'd be nice to see a character from an unrepresented continent. Or a villain, regardless of continent. But my ultimate Fire Emblem addition would have to be...

Ephraim

He's from a different continent, he uses a lance, rather than a sword, and he's just plain awesome.

 

[Anti Guy]

Can we talk about why Ganondorf mains are so adamant about the character they play being Ganondorf? No *****ing no fighting. I'm honestly a little confused about the situation.

Are the people who play him actually LoZ fans that just like this sort of kung fu action Ganondorf or have they just become attached to his image from playing Smash? If it's the former I can kinda understand where they're coming from but if it's the latter not so much. Would you actually be put off from playing the moveset if you are playing it as Black Shadow and if so is it because you really want to play as Ganondorf or because you really don't want to play as Black Shadow?

Personally as a LoZ and F-Zero fan I do want an authentic moveset for Ganondorf but also I think I would actually want to play the existing moveset more if it was on Black Shadow as it seems pretty much perfect for him.

Well if it isn't too late, I'd like to say I like the idea of Dark Samus and Ridley. Though obviously I'd like to see Ridley in Smash 4 more. I don't see Dark Samus as a strong possibility, so Project M would be a cool way to have players use the character. I'd also like to see what ways Samus can have a Luigi-like semi clone. With Dark Samus clearly being the optimal choice.

Also, as someone who likes using Ganondorf, I have no issue if most of his moveset was given to Black Shadow, provided that Ganon was more unique that is.

Since I haven't said much on the subject, I agree with the above. I play Ganondorf, but he isn't my main (Zelda currently is). And as a fan of both Zelda (although I'm starting to get fed up with how repetitive it's been getting) and F-Zero, I wouldn't mind the Ganon / BS combo either.

The bias in this analysis:

-Implying discussion on Pichu is messing up this thread. This is where clone engine speculation goes and Pichu discussion is every bit as valid as any other character
-Saying Pichu is objectively a bad choice when he is the only character aside from the doc and Young Link who has a voice, a moveset, and fans based on playstyle. Oh, and who can forget actual tangible evidence that the PMBR is considering him?

Aside from that seems like a good interpretation of the numbers, though it may give them too much weight, implying that anyone is likely based on anything from this thread seems silly.

Pichu discussion has been messing up the thread though. One, it's been this

And two, it frequently derails any previous discussion to continue beating the same horse.

Also, while the PMBR may be considering him, there's nothing to say they're considering him more than anyone else, which is in fact what they said previously. The icon there can just the same be a joke, especially given that Pichu was an April Fool's joke before.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Can we talk about why Ganondorf mains are so adamant about the character they play being Ganondorf? No *****ing no fighting. I'm honestly a little confused about the situation.

Are the people who play him actually LoZ fans that just like this sort of kung fu action Ganondorf or have they just become attached to his image from playing Smash? If it's the former I can kinda understand where they're coming from but if it's the latter not so much. Would you actually be put off from playing the moveset if you are playing it as Black Shadow and if so is it because you really want to play as Ganondorf or because you really don't want to play as Black Shadow?

Personally as a LoZ and F-Zero fan I do want an authentic moveset for Ganondorf but also I think I would actually want to play the existing moveset more if it was on Black Shadow as it seems pretty much perfect for him.

Ooh, an opinion from a fan of BOTH franchises. I don't think I've seen this before, cool.

Any other F-Zero + LoZ fans out there? I'd love seeing their opinions on the Ganondorf / Black Shadow idea, no matter how supportive or hateful. Most opinions have been from people accustomed to how he is already in Smash, F-Zero fans who want a different F-Zero character (they want Samurai Goroh, and ChronoBound wanted Pico), and LoZ fans who want a new Ganondorf at any cost. So you'd provide a fresh new viewpoint for this issue, at least.

 

[Saito]

Pichu - Ugh. Look up controversial in the dictionary and you'll see Pichu. Responsible for messing the discussion MULTIPLE times in this thread, but anyways. As it stands, Pichu is < 50%, which is way below the average support (somewhere around 80%), and is fact only better than Toon Zelda, and the three Sonic characters. Objectively, Pichu is a terrible candidate, and so far it's mainly its role as a veteran keeping it in the game. (Although I'm pretty sure many people will respond with their subjective thoughts)

Completely What.

if you are using the definition of objectively that I think you are, then I would say the above statement is incorrect.

Subjectively, people don't like Pichu because of their own personal feelings just like the few people that like him do because of their personal feelings.

Objectively Pichu is very fit for the clone engine. Looking just at the facts of what they need to make a character that lives up to the PMBR's standards, Pichu is currently the most ideal.

However, factual evidence also goes against Pichu in the form of votes. This makes it objectively bad in a different sense. BUT is this really objective since this is based off of the same subjective votes?

 

[Saito]

I think you're confused. The poll here is data on people's subjective feelings, but the data itself is objective especially because it's an aggregate opinion and can be quantified.

So when I say characters like Isaac should get in, I'm saying that their popularity is so high that it justifies the difficulties of making the character.

Ah, yes I was mistaken.

I agree as well.

 

[Anti Guy]

Completely What.

if you are using the definition of objectively that I think you are, then I would say the above statement is incorrect.
Subjectively, people don't like Pichu because of their own personal feelings just like the few people that like him do because of their personal feelings.

Objectively Pichu is very fit for the clone engine. Looking just at the facts of what they need to make a character that lives up to the PMBR's standards, Pichu is currently the most ideal.

However, factual evidence also goes against Pichu in the form of votes. This makes it objectively bad in a different sense. BUT is this really objective since this is based off of the same subjective votes?

I think you're confused. The poll here is data on people's subjective feelings, but the data itself is objective especially because it's an aggregate opinion and can be quantified.

And yes, Pichu is fit for the Clone Engine, but that's really only a part of a character's candidacy. One, I'm not even looking at that at all in the analysis. I'm just looking at the popularity, which is part of the piece. The other part is whether they can be implemented and how easy they are. If you look at the latter alone, then you'd have random ass characters popping up just because they'd be easy to do. And if you look at the former alone, you'd be including characters that are just not feasible. Either way, I try to make sure that all the characters listed are at least somewhat viable (though some like Plusle & Minun and maybe even Dixie are probably not).

So when I say characters like Isaac should get in, I'm saying that their popularity is so high that it justifies the difficulties of making the character.

 

[Knight Dude]

I'm not extremely well versed in F-Zero. But I have played a few of the Zelda games. With Ganondorf's current moveset, you do get the feeling of power he is supposed to have with his part of the Tri-force. But still quite a few of his attacks are too similar to Captain Falcon's. If I'm not mistaken here should be a list of all of Ganon's unique attacks in Brawl.

1. Side-B
2. Jab
3. Side-A
4. Down-A
5. Up Smash
6. Forward Air
7. Up Throw
8. Up-A
9. Up-B(arguably less so than the others)
10. Final Smash

10 moves. That's not too bad. But more can be done. Most fans want to see him use a sword. Since in quite a few of his appearances, Ganondorf uses a sword, mostly in his Human forms. I can understand this sentiment. However, I really, really, really, do not want to see nearly all of his moves become just boring sword swipes. Most of the moves I had just listed should still be present in Smash, whether it's a mod or an official release. I'm mostly saying this for his Side-B, Side-A, and Down-A, which are references to the Zelda games, however obscure.

The first thing I would do is give Ganon the Dead Man's Volley, it's been a staple attack of his for quite some time now. Both in Human and Beast form. Though with that said, I understand if it might be annoying as all hell to implement in a mod.

I would also like to say that one of his clone moves should definitely be kept. The Thunder Stomp. It is one of his better attacks in both Melee and even Project M if I'm not mistaken, it should be kept for balance. It's still different enough from Falcon's to be used, since it's stronger an has a lighting effect.

If we go by popular vote, Ganondorf could use a sword for a few of his attacks, perhaps an improved Jab, a new Forward Smash, and even a new Down Smash. I would also recommend that his Back Air and Neutral Air can be replace with his sword as well.

Sorry for the wall of text there.

 

[Anti Guy]

I'm not extremely well versed in F-Zero. But I have played a few of the Zelda games. With Ganondorf's current moveset, you do get the feeling of power he is supposed to have with his part of the Tri-force. But still quite a few of his attacks are too similar to Captain Falcon's. If I'm not mistaken here should be a list of all of Ganon's unique attacks in Brawl.

1. Side-B
2. Jab
3. Side-A
4. Down-A
5. Up Smash
6. Forward Air
7. Up Throw
8. Up-A
9. Up-B(arguably less so than the others)
10. Final Smash

10 moves. That's not too bad. But more can be done. Most fans want to see him use a sword. Since in quite a few of his appearances, Ganondorf uses a sword, mostly in his Human forms. I can understand this sentiment. However, I really, really, really, do not want to see nearly all of his moves become just boring sword swipes. Most of the moves I had just listed should still be present in Smash, whether it's a mod or an official release. I'm mostly saying this for his Side-B, Side-A, and Down-A, which are references to the Zelda games, however obscure.

The first thing I would do is give Ganon the Dead Man's Volley, it's been a staple attack of his for quite some time now. Both in Human and Beast form. Though with that said, I understand if it might be annoying as all hell to implement in a mod.

I would also like to say that one of his clone moves should definitely be kept. The Thunder Stomp. It is one of his better attacks in both Melee and even Project M if I'm not mistaken, it should be kept for balance. It's still different enough from Falcon's to be used, since it's stronger an has a lighting effect.

If we go by popular vote, Ganondorf could use a sword for a few of his attacks, perhaps an improved Jab, a new Forward Smash, and even a new Down Smash. I would also recommend that his Back Air and Neutral Air can be replace with his sword as well.

Sorry for the wall of text there.

There's one big problem: Project M wants to be very close to Melee if it can help it (although they generally improve historically bad characters). Making sweeping changes goes against the whole mantra. That's why there's the Black Shadow idea, because if you just change the aesthetic, his fundamental moveset remains intact.

 

[Empyrean]

I know this is completely based on my personal bias, but I don't like the Blackondorf idea simply because of how much BS looks like ****. I know I may be one of the few people who cares about the appearance of the characters more than anything else, so this may sound a bit self-entitled.

There's one big problem: Project M wants to be very close to Melee if it can help it (although they generally improve historically bad characters). Making sweeping changes goes against the whole mantra. That's why there's the Black Shadow idea, because if you just change the aesthetic, his fundamental moveset remains intact.

Surely changing a few moves that no one even used in Melee (notably neutral-B and up-tilt) to better reflect Canondorf wouldn't upset the Ganon mains. I know I wouldn't be angered the slightest.

Anyways, seeing as the BS idea seems quite popular, if it were to happen, then I guess I'd just have to live with it.

 

[Knight Dude]

There's one big problem: Project M wants to be very close to Melee if it can help it (although they generally improve historically bad characters). Making sweeping changes goes against the whole mantra. That's why there's the Black Shadow idea, because if you just change the aesthetic, his fundamental moveset remains intact.

True enough. I would think these changes should only need to be made if Black Shadow would take most of Ganondorf's current moveset. Otherwise I'm more than fine with a buffed Melee/Brawl mix of Ganon's moveset. I should have mentioned that in my former post, and I apologize for my mistake. Giving Melee players the moveset that they like, and Zelda fans have a more accurate version of Ganondorf. That seems more than ideal to me.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

There is a whole discussion in the Ganondorf thread about his meta game and changes. But I think all the moves/throws that are identical to Falcon can change to fit Ganon better but stay functionally the same (except ! Warlock Punch!) it probably wouldn't upset current Ganon mains (like my self) but a totally unieqe Ganon will be a dream come true! And I would still play Black Shadow for the moveset.

Here are some of my suggestions:

- When they finally change Warlock punch, they can use that animation (with the darkness affect and all) for his F-smash. Win-win

- Imagine Mew2's Up- smash... Good! Now imagine Ganon doing it but it's a strong 2 hits just like his current Up smash, win-win.

Imagine Ganon punching the ground like in OOT, now imagine it looking like Charizard's Down smash but with Electricity affect. It can function just like his current Dsmash as a 2 hit, or it can be changed. Win-win.

The rest of his cloned animations like Bair, Nair, Uair, grab animation and throwing animations, can all be changed to be more sluggish/brutish looking (like Fair and Dair) to fit Ganon better, also added darkness and lightning affect around his limb as he executes his moves would just add an extra flair and establish he is a wizard/magic user further (imagine Fair with a darkness trail like Wizard's Foot, it would be even more badass! Same with electricity around his arm during Bair).

These type of changes would most likely please both LOZ fans and Ganon mains, and if some of the moves can be improved in the process it would be even better (the smash gods know some of them need to be improved). Even with all this said I would still prefer Ganon/Black Shadow idea.

 

[HayabusaTaichou]

I know this is completely based on my personal bias, but I don't like the Blackondorf idea simply because of how much BS looks like ****. I know I may be one of the few people who cares about the appearance of the characters more than anything else, so this may sound a bit self-entitled.

What looks like **** about Black Shadow's design? do you not like the bull motif or the super villain style or what?

 

[Anti Guy]

What looks like **** about Black Shadow's design? do you not like the bull motif or the super villain style or what?

I'd have to agree here. Black Shadow's design is as "lame" as Captain Falcon's in a way. It's all part of the series design where the characters are really designed over-the-top in a corny way. Captain Falcon is stereotypically designed as a space hero, while Black Shadow is also stereotypically designed as an evil galactic lord.

 

[TopTierPichu]

for something that is probably more controversial than Pichu, Black Shadow is some how really high up

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I'm a big Fire Emblem fan, but I don't really want to see either Lyn or Hector. We already have Roy representing the Elibe games, so it'd be nice to see a character from an unrepresented continent. Or a villain, regardless of continent. But my ultimate Fire Emblem addition would have to be...

Ephraim

He's from a different continent, he uses a lance, rather than a sword, and he's just plain awesome.

Hello there! I'd like to talk to you about Jesus Chr- Err uh, Ephraim, yeah him.
A while back I made a moveset for him, and I like feedback so check it out.

Click da arrow to go on a journey.

You know, part of me is trying to be annoying, while the other part is legitimately trying to be helpful.
Is that bad?

 

[Knight Dude]

Well I was always fond of Black Shadow being a comic book villain. More or less anyway. Kind like an over the top, evil, Batman. Yeah, that's an accurate description.

 

[Adult Swim]

You guys already have the model for Gray Fox as an assist trophy. Put him in the game!

 

[Empyrean]

What looks like **** about Black Shadow's design? do you not like the bull motif or the super villain style or what?

Like Anti Guy said, it must be the lamest design for a Nintendo villain I've ever seen. I was kinda joking when I said he looks like ****, he's not absolutely disgustingly terribad, but Black Shadow is as generic as comic-book villains go.

I'd have to agree here. Black Shadow's design is as "lame" as Captain Falcon's in a way. It's all part of the series design where the characters are really designed over-the-top in a corny way. Captain Falcon is stereotypically designed as a space hero, while Black Shadow is also stereotypically designed as an evil galactic lord.

Well I myself wouldn't say that Falcon looks "lame", but I see what you mean.

 

[Knight Dude]

You guys already have the model for Gray Fox as an assist trophy. Put him in the game!

Can we get two nights of Toonami? How about some more Boondocks and Black Dynamite? You gotta make deals with us Adult Swim.

Like Anti Guy said, it must be the lamest design for a Nintendo villain I've ever seen. I was kinda joking when I said he looks like ****, he's not absolutely disgustingly terribad, but Black Shadow is as generic as comic-book villains go.


Well I myself wouldn't say that Falcon looks "lame", but I see what you mean.

Eh. I wouldn't say he's the absolute lamest looking Nintendo villain. But I find the super villain look to be rather endearing design. Since it is so common with the characters present in F-Zero. I suppose his design could have toned down some more and it would look better.

Not sure which of the Nintendo villains look the lamest to me. Maybe Andross? Nah, giant Space Monkeys are too surreal not to like. Maybe Wart from Mario 2.

 

[HayabusaTaichou]

I'd have to agree here. Black Shadow's design is as "lame" as Captain Falcon's in a way. It's all part of the series design where the characters are really designed over-the-top in a corny way. Captain Falcon is stereotypically designed as a space hero, while Black Shadow is also stereotypically designed as an evil galactic lord.

I'm a little confused as to what you're saying here. Are you saying He's meant to look that way so the design is just lame or are you saying he's meant to look that way and that's the great thing about the design?
Cause the latter is pretty much exactly what I like about him, C. Falcon and well F-Zero in general.

for something that is probably more controversial than Pichu, Black Shadow is some how really high up

Nothing is more controversial than pichu.

 

[Anti Guy]

I'm a little confused as to what you're saying here. Are you saying He's meant to look that way so the design is just lame or are you saying he's meant to look that way and that's the great thing about the design?
Cause the latter is pretty much exactly what I like about him, C. Falcon and well F-Zero in general.





Nothing is more controversial than pichu.

Well I didn't really mean lame so much as "generic and cheesy sci-fi space characters" in an endearing way. Not saying I dislike their designs, but if you just take a step back and look at the F-Zero character designs, you'd realize how stereotypical they are.

for something that is probably more controversial than Pichu, Black Shadow is some how really high up

Eh, it's not more controversial than Pichu. It's more like the people who don't like Ganon/BS were really outspoken so it made it seem more controversial than it is. I'll admit it's still very controversial, but not nearly as much as Pichu

 

[Adult Swim]

Can we get two nights of Toonami? How about some more Boondocks and Black Dynamite? You gotta make deals with us Adult Swim.

Get Gray Fox and Raiden and I'll get more Boondocks, Black Dynamite, Cowboy Bebop, Venture Bros, and anything else you guys want.

 

[Banjodorf]

Wait a sec, the BS/Ganon idea has remained that popular? Holy ****. I'm impressed, I thought people would be immovable.

It's also one of the easiest ones to do, considering a sword/actual Ganon moveset was already made and adapted to PM. It's unbalanced as hell, but it's something the PMBR could draw ideas from, and really make a true-to-character Ganon.

As for Black Shadow, I'd love to have him, just because it's an amazingly easy character to add (Just aesthetics and...taunts?) and F-Zero's been without a second rep for too long. Like another space-fairing franchise I can think of...

 

[HayabusaTaichou]

Wait a sec, the BS/Ganon idea has remained that popular? Holy ****. I'm impressed, I thought people would be immovable.

It's also one of the easiest ones to do, considering a sword/actual Ganon moveset was already made and adapted to PM. It's unbalanced as hell, but it's something the PMBR could draw ideas from, and really make a true-to-character Ganon.

As for Black Shadow, I'd love to have him, just because it's an amazingly easy character to add (Just aesthetics and...taunts?) and F-Zero's been without a second rep for too long. Like another space-fairing franchise I can think of...

I think the guy who made that mod is on the P:M team now too. Also Black Shadow would need a new Final Smash but that'd probably be fairly easy.

 

[arcticfox8]

Eh, it's not more controversial than Pichu. It's more like the people who don't like Ganon/BS were really outspoken so it made it seem more controversial than it is. I'll admit it's still very controversial, but not nearly as much as Pichu

With Pichu you're adding a character.
With BS you're replacing a character and adding a character.
I fail to see how you can say that with a straight face.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

In all honesty, I find it extremely doubtful that the PMBR would even consider the BS idea. It's just a very unrealistic suggestion, considering what type of game PM is going for.
The odds of them going actually through with it in my opinion are less than 2%, so I don't see the point in supporting it.
That and people are clearly opposed to it (like me and that guy ^).

If it actually ends up happening officially, I'll eat my socks.

 

[HayabusaTaichou]

With Pichu you're adding a character.
With BS you're replacing a character and adding a character.
I fail to see how you can say that with a straight face.

Controversial =/= how drastic the change is.

Controversial = how much **** is stirred up because of the change.

 

[Crixler]

Hello there! I'd like to talk to you about Jesus Chr- Err uh, Ephraim, yeah him.
A while back I made a moveset for him, and I like feedback so check it out.



You know, part of me is trying to be annoying, while the other part is legitimately trying to be helpful.
Is that bad?

Could be neat, sure. Glad I'm not the only Ephraim fan here!

An alternative to Ephraim, however, could be Zephiel, I think. If we were to get another Fire Emblem character, it might be a good idea to include a villain. In that case, the villain should probably be from one of the games already represented, which could mean Medeus, Gharnef, Hardin, Zephiel, Idenn, the Black Knight, Ashnard, or Ashera. Medeus and Idenn could be cool, but I'm not sure how well they would work in SSB. Of those two, Medeus would likely be preferable. I don't think Ashnard would be that great, because I doubt his dragon would be included, and Gurgurant (his sword) is a bit massive. Ashera's a bit much. Gharnef is a bit boring, in my opinion, though could actually bring a more unique playstyle. That leaves Hardin, Zephiel, and the Black Knight. The Black Knight would probably be the most recognizable to western fans, but I think Zephiel would be more interesting. Eckesachs (Zephiel's sword/scepter thing of awesomeness) would allow for a more interesting moveset than Alondite (The Black Knights sword, companion to Ike's Ragnell), I think. Though Gradivus (Hardin's lance) could perhaps provide an even more interesting moveset, I find him to be the least interesting of the three characters.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

An alternative to Ephraim, however, could be Zephiel, I think. If we were to get another Fire Emblem character, it might be a good idea to include a villain. In that case, the villain should probably be from one of the games already represented, which could mean Medeus, Gharnef, Hardin, Zephiel, Idenn, the Black Knight, Ashnard, or Ashera. Medeus and Idenn could be cool, but I'm not sure how well they would work in SSB. Of those two, Medeus would likely be preferable. I don't think Ashnard would be that great, because I doubt his dragon would be included, and Gurgurant (his sword) is a bit massive. Ashera's a bit much. Gharnef is a bit boring, in my opinion, though could actually bring a more unique playstyle. That leaves Hardin, Zephiel, and the Black Knight. The Black Knight would probably be the most recognizable to western fans, but I think Zephiel would be more interesting. Eckesachs (Zephiel's sword/scepter thing of awesomeness) would allow for a more interesting moveset than Alondite (The Black Knights sword, companion to Ike's Ragnell), I think. Though Gradivus (Hardin's lance) could perhaps provide an even more interesting moveset, I find him to be the least interesting of the three characters.

It's kinda funny that you'd mention Black Knight...cause I actually made a moveset for him too .

It's my personal favorite right now.

Click dat arrow again.

Is this shameless spam?
Yes.
Do I care?
No.

 

[Saito]

Wait a sec, the BS/Ganon idea has remained that popular? Holy ****. I'm impressed, I thought people would be immovable.

Let's get some Melee diehards up in here yo.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Let's get some Melee diehards up in here yo.

KAGE WHERE YOU AT?

 

[TopTierPichu]

when I meant Black Shadow was controversial I meant the moveset moving from Ganon to Him while Lugifying Ganon

 

[arcticfox8]

Here's how I feel about characters in Smash. Once a character is in the game, they are no longer the character from their universe. They are a fighter in Smash, and you have to respect that. You have to respect their personality and moveset together.
Say they took Ryu when developing SF5Turbo, and gave his moveset to Haggar and gave him a new moveset based on his headband or whatever. That wouldn't work, because it wouldn't be Ryu anymore. It would be Haggar and a guy that looks like Ryu.
Characters in Smash are just like characters in Street Fighter. They make up the roster and add variety to the game. That is it. They aren't repping anything. They're fighting game characters in a fighting game.

 

[Kally Wally]

Reposting this because it's relevant, and got eaten by the BrawlEx discussion:

Toon Ganon, perhaps? He has swords, and with robes like that, you could probably justify some magic, especially if you take inspiration from Agahnim, who is technically Ganondorf.

Thoughts?

 

[HayabusaTaichou]

Here's how I feel about characters in Smash. Once a character is in the game, they are no longer the character from their universe. They are a fighter in Smash, and you have to respect that. You have to respect their personality and moveset together.
Say they took Ryu when developing SF5Turbo, and gave his moveset to Haggar and gave him a new moveset based on his headband or whatever. That wouldn't work, because it wouldn't be Ryu anymore. It would be Haggar and a guy that looks like Ryu.
Characters in Smash are just like characters in Street Fighter. They make up the roster and add variety to the game. That is it. They aren't repping anything. They're fighting game characters in a fighting game.

That's a convenient opinion and a weak example.

Street Fighter isn't an all stars game and no one's been wanting a different moveset from the moment they saw his. Both of which can be said for Ganondorf in Smash. I don't really have anything to say to your capped moveset point other than I completely disagree.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I just don't like the idea of everyone else having to adjust because a few people are whiny about what Sakurai did with Ganondorf.
The sense of entitlement some people have is something I find offensive.

If canon is such a big deal, then why is Ganondorf the only character people want to have a canon moveset?
There are so many nitpicks one could make about any character's non-canon qualities. Why is Ganondorf such a big deal?

And sorry Kally, but I don't find Toon Ganon that appealing either.