NEW 20XX-advanced Ike stuff

[Vavv]

These are techniques have been new and seemingly undiscovered by the community since 3.5. All techniques require an advanced knowledge of PM fundamentals (some more advanced than others) in order to execute perfectly, and all techniques have qualifications that I explain to significantly improve your Ike game.

• Invincible Grounded Quickdraw From Ledge

HOW TO DO:

-Ledge release (9th frame being first possible frame to execute after grabbing ledge)
-Airjump (1st frame being first possible frame to execute after ledge release)
-Quickdraw (1st frame being first possible frame to execute after airjump)

*This is one of Ike's best options from ledge. This will allow you to approach your opponent with an invincible Quickdraw. If you press side B (Quickdraw) within 1-5 frames of airjumping (assuming you airjump the next frame after ledge release, Ike will approach with an invincible GROUNDED Quickdraw, meaning that, yes, you CAN jump cancel out of it into anything. If done frame perfect, Ike will be invincible until frame 19 of Quickdraw's going forward animation (3-17 being the frames you can jump cancel out of Quickdraw). This means there are 2 frames of leniency if you do not perform this frame perfect.

*It is not necessary to airjump RIGHT after ledge release or to Quickdraw RIGHT after airjump in order to perform this technique, but doing-so does give Ike the maximum amount of invincibility frames when approaching your opponent with Quickdraw.

Best Options:

-Grounded Invincible QD from ledge INTO JC Grab (if performed frame-perfect, Ike should have invincibility after 6 frames of his last active grab hitbox)

-Grounded Invincible QD from ledge INTO RAR Back Air (if performed frame-perfect, Ike should have invincibility during the first 2 frames, out of 3 in total, of his active Back Air hitboxes)

• Invincible Ledge Release, Reverse Momentum Quickdraw, Walljump, Airjump, Bair/Nair

HOW TO DO:

-Ledge release by pressing BACKWARDS (away from the stage), not downwards, and hold it on your Control Stick (9th frame AFTER GRABBING LEDGE being first possible frame to execute)

-Holding backwards still, press B to perform Quickdraw facing away from the stage (1st frame AFTER LEDGE RELEASING being first possible frame to execute)

-Shift the backwards input into forwards (towards the stage) and hold it on your Control Stick (1-4 frames AFTER QUICKDRAW being only possible frames to execute. You can execute on any of the frames as long as you hold it until the 4th)

-Walljump out of Quickdraw (10th frame AFTER QUICKDRAW being first possible frame to execute)

-Airjump (4th frame AFTER WALLJUMPING being first possible frame to execute)

-Bair/Nair (1st frame AFTER AIRJUMPING being first possible frame to execute. Bair should be performed a couple of frames after airjumping, not the 1st.)

*This technique does not work on the following stages:

*Battlefield
*Lylat Cruise
*Skyworld
*Smashville
*Pokemon Stadium 2

*Unlike Fair from ledge, this technique can allow you to either Nair your opponent into a follow-up if your opponent DIs upward, since Nair carries the opponent, or Bair your opponent completely away from you if your opponent DIs sideways, making this technique a mixup and condition in itself. Of course, Fair from ledge has its own benefits. Opt wisely.

• Fully Charged/Almost Fully Charged Quickdraw Ledge Cancels

*This should be easy to execute. Most of the following stages can be ledge canceled from platform to platform. (Distant Planet, Lylat Cruise, PS1, and PS2, can sometimes ledge cancel from platform to stage-ledge, depending on Ike's positioning and charge length of Quickdraw.)

HOW TO DO:

-Most of these should be performed from standing at the far end of a platform.
-From there, charge up Quickdraw until you hear the little *ding* sound indicating that Ike's Quickdraw is fully charged, release it, and boom, ledge cancel.
-For some of these, and depending on how far away you are from the far end of the platform you are charging Quickdraw on, you may want to release Quickdraw right BEFORE the *ding* noise.

Stages this technique can be performed on:

*Warioware (From either end platform to other horizontally-corresponding end platform. Best stage for this technique.)
*Lylat Cruise (From end platform to other end platform)
*Yoshi's Story (From end platform to other end platform)
*Pokemon Stadium 2 (From end platform to other end platform)
*Pokemon Stadium 1 (From end platform to other end platform)
*Battlefield (From end platform to other end platform)
*Dreamland (From end platform to other end platform)
*Distant Planet (From middle platform to other middle platform, this one's tricky)
*Fountain of Dreams (not suggested unless the two ending platforms are horizontally aligned)
*Norfair ((not suggested unless the two ending platforms are horizontally aligned)

*This technique should be mainly used as an edgeguard if you are too far away from the edge that your opponent is trying to recover on AND if you find your Ike on a platform after you knockback your opponent (do not jump from the ground onto the platform and then perform the technique, that's just a slower method of edgeguarding).

*An advisable edgeguard after ledge-canceling would be Ike's late Dair hitboxes.

• Platform-to-Platform Jumpsquat-Lagless Waveland

HOW TO DO:

-Make sure you are on a platform (platform #1)
-Quickdraw from platform #1 to platform #2
-Jump cancel out of Quickdraw while over or below platform #2
-Waveland onto platform #2 during next frame of jump canceling out of Quickdraw

*If you start Quickdraw on platform #1, travel with it onto platform #2, and then jump cancel out of Quickdraw, Ike airjumps, meaning that he does not jumpsquat, meaning that you can waveland onto to platform #2 after the first frame after jump canceling Quickdraw without waiting for Ike's 5 jumpsquat frames. This creates Ike's fastest method of moving from one side of the stage to another IF and ONLY IF you find your Ike already positioned on a platform during the moment you wish to execute this technique (do not jump from the ground onto the platform and then perform the technique, that's just a slow approach).

*Generally, this technique can be used on the same stages as the previous technique (Fully Charged/Almost Fully Charged Ledge Cancels).

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Nice stuff! I've always been interested in QD from ledge but knowing the frame data on it is super useful. Thanks for the effort you put into this for us Ikes!

 

[cisyphus]

You've confused what a haxdash is. Haxdash is where you ledge drop -> DJ -> waveland -> Fastfall -> regrab, preferably while maintaining invincibility. Waveland invincible jab is not the same thing.

&& nobody waveshines as a mixup, lol. WaveQD over and over just sounds bad. Inserting the empty quickdraw every so often is good, but constantly doing it as suggested it silly.

Also none of this is new.

 

[Vavv]

Edit: Fixed

 

[cisyphus]

"Many Ike players already know QD JC Wavedash confuses the opponent during the neutral game, and being able to do it over and over again will add to that confusion for your opponent,"

Confuse = mixup

Ike doesn't waveshine.
Misleading language.

 

[Vavv]

Edit: fixed

 

[cisyphus]

"I fyou bair your opponent to the other side of the stage, the quickest way to get to him is to QD waveshine. it's offensive, not a mixup. When did I say mixup lol."

 

[Vavv]

Edit: fixed

 

[metroid1117]

Good work, having numbers to this is really neat .

 

[Frakture]

Do any Ikes use grounded QD from the ledge? I've never seen any, which confused me because of how good the technique is.

Also, Ike can invincibly ledgestall by fastfalling from the ledge for 2-6 frames, DJ, QD, and QD attack. The timings for the QD attack vary depending on what frame you DJ jump, and I don't know the window for QDing after the DJ. The only frame perfect input required is ledge dropping on exactly frame 9, everything else is relatively lenient.

 

[Vavv]

Do any Ikes use grounded QD from the ledge? I've never seen any, which confused me because of how good the technique is.

Also, Ike can invincibly ledgestall by fastfalling from the ledge for 2-6 frames, DJ, QD, and QD attack. The timings for the QD attack vary depending on what frame you DJ jump, and I don't know the window for QDing after the DJ. The only frame perfect input required is ledge dropping on exactly frame 9, everything else is relatively lenient.

I have not seen any Ike consistently pull off grounded QD from ledge effectively. It seems to be a technique that can only be mastered by repetition to instill the natural muscle memory into your mind, because the 3 inputs (ledge release, air jump, Quickdraw) need to be executed RIGHT after each other.

I'm sure you're aware that if a player inputs Quickdraw --> Opposite direction on Control Stick really fast, Ike performs a Quickdraw towards that opposite direction. This is what I personally use to perform a grounded QD from ledge. If you wish to execute it that way, here's how:

-Ledge release by inputting BACKWARDS of stage. If on left edge, press LEFT on Control stick to ledge release
-Still Holding the LEFT input from ledge releasing, airjump
-Still Holding the LEFT input from ledge releasing, press B (this will make Ike start to perform QD facing AWAY from the stage
-QUICKLY turn control stick RIGHT so that Ike's face and QD momentum shift to the right where the stage is

This is just another way of performing grounded QD from ledge. If another way is easier for you, continue to do it that way, this is just another option in case it ends up being easier for you like it is me.

 

[Vavv]

Good work, having numbers to this is really neat .

If you liked the frame data to the Jab and Fair sections, I may create a thread on them soon enough, but I deleted them to try to stay relevant to the title of this thread (new undiscovered techniques).
Thank you for the kind words, that means a lot from the one PM player I aim to beat the most. I hope to be notified when you show up at WDW again.

 

[metroid1117]

If you liked the frame data to the Jab and Fair sections, I may create a thread on them soon enough, but I deleted them to try to stay relevant to the title of this thread (new undiscovered techniques).
Thank you for the kind words, that means a lot from the one PM player I aim to beat the most. I hope to be notified when you show up at WDW again.

I probably won't be back in Chicago until the summer, but we should definitely try meeting up sometime .

 

[Starfall11]

Great information regarding Ike's platform/edge options. I haven't begun to incorporate this into my game, but it is very useful. Mainly the QD from ledge.

I appreciate it very much, and as others have said. The frame data is the best part.

 

[Vavv]

Great information regarding Ike's platform/edge options. I haven't begun to incorporate this into my game, but it is very useful. Mainly the QD from ledge.

I appreciate it very much, and as others have said. The frame data is the best part.

Thank you for the kind words.
I feel all techniques could be implemented in you Ike game effectively. Yes, while QD from ledge is by far going to be the most common/hardest technique out of the three, I would say both the ledge cancels and platform-to-platform waveland should be mainly used to follow up an edgeguard quickly if you knock your opponent towards the other side of the stage if you are already standing on a platform at that moment. Otherwise I wouldn't waste your time getting up on the platform JUST to go to the other side and ledge cancel/platform-to-platform waveland since just regular charging-up QD should do the job of getting you over there faster. That's just how I see those two techniques being used best. Good luck though!

 

[SparkingZero]

I also like all of these things . I started QD from ledge a few months ago but I definitely could use the data. Nice job

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Good thing ike is #StrongBadApproved

 

[Vavv]

I also like all of these things . I started QD from ledge a few months ago but I definitely could use the data. Nice job

This basically conditions your opponent.
After hitting your opponent with an invincible Fair from ledge, your opponent will back up the next time he encounters that situation. And since your opponent will be waiting right outside of your Fair-from-ledge range to punish, he will most likely be in your range of invincible QD into JC grab.
After that, your opponent will have to back up even more, which means you could now either perform a safe Fair attempt since he's too far away, or you could reach him with a QD into JC RAR Bair. Just one way to look at the mental mindgame behind this technique.

 

[Starfall11]

I am having trouble getting down these techniques consistently. And how do I perform the invincible Fair?

Do I just:

drop from the ledge > instant jump > Fair (L-cancelled). Or is there some sort of trick to it?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I am having trouble getting down these techniques consistently. And how do I perform the invincible Fair?

Do I just:

drop from the ledge > instant jump > Fair (L-cancelled). Or is there some sort of trick to it?

For the analog, you'll wanna do a motion similar to a ledge dash. Input the fair the same way you would for a ledge drop aerial. Having good ledge dashes is a good thing to have, when trying to get this down. I didn't know he could do an invincible fair tho...

 

[Vavv]

I am having trouble getting down these techniques consistently. And how do I perform the invincible Fair?

Do I just:

drop from the ledge > instant jump > Fair (L-cancelled). Or is there some sort of trick to it?

Sorry I took the invincible Fair topic down; it doesn't suit the thread's theme of new undiscovered techniques.

Anyway, nope, there's no easy way around it. You have to ledge drop (backwards or downwards) RIGHT into airjump and then Fair (L cancelled, preferably fast fall too). I know Fair from ledge and QD from ledge are hard to do for many Ike players being that a lot of them don't pick up Ike expecting to master some Fox-speed fundamentals (there are other little things too like "Wavebouncing"), but it's true: Ike's probably the fastest input-per-second character outside of spacies that takes a lot more than gimmicks to become possibly one of the most broken characters in 3.5

 

[Vavv]

For the analog, you'll wanna do a motion similar to a ledge dash. Input the fair the same way you would for a ledge drop aerial. Having good ledge dashes is a good thing to have, when trying to get this down. I didn't know he could do an invincible fair tho...

Frame-perfect from ledge, Ike should have 7 frames of invincibility after his last active Fair hitbox. It's pretty mediocre of course, being that those 7 frames probably won't save you from any punishes. But that does mean that you can mess up a total of 7 frames (anywhere from inputting airjump 2 frames late after ledge drop, or inputting Fair 3 frames late after airjumping) to get the maximum effectiveness of Fair from ledge, again, since those 7 frames won't save you from anything anyway. It allows Ike players to not need to be frame-perfect.

 

[Frakture]

If you want to practice frame perfect aerials from the ledge, try fastfalling from the ledge, DJing, Bairing, and regrabbing the ledge. In order to do this, you must DJ on the first possible frame, and bair within 2 frames of the DJ. It really helps get the timing down for the inputs. In addition, if you input bair with the control stick and attack, it also teaches you the timing for perfect grounded quickdraw; all you have to do is replace the attack input with special.

 

[Starfall11]

Thanks for the advice. I will add these techniques to my Ike game. I was looking for new techniques since I've already mastered every QD followup and almost mastered DACUS. So I'm well on my way to becoming a proficient Ike main.

 

[Vavv]

Just added "Invincible Ledge Release, Reverse Momentum Quickdraw, Walljump, Airjump, Bair/Nair" technique. If there are any problems about the topic, let me know.

 

[Frakture]

Something interesting to note is if you cancel a walljump on the 4th frame you retain the walljump.

 

[Vavv]

Something interesting to note is if you cancel a walljump on the 4th frame you retain the walljump.

Didn't know that. But since it needs an airjump to cancel, it's probably an inferior recovery option compared to just airjumping before or after the walljump.

 

[Frakture]

Didn't know that. But since it needs an airjump to cancel, it's probably an inferior recovery option compared to just airjumping before or after the walljump.

You can cancel it with anything, including another quickdraw.

 

[GmJn]

Can anyone tell me a good way to get used to doing these techniques?

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Practice in the lab until you can always do it, then the next time you do friendlies, focus on incorporating it. Might take a bit, but there's no way around it.

 

[Vavv]

You can cancel it with anything, including another quickdraw.

I see. Is there anything besides airjump and Aether that Ike can cancel walljump with while also gaining elevation? because QD to walljump to QD cancel to walljump over and over doesn't help recovery.

 

[Frakture]

I see. Is there anything besides airjump and Aether that Ike can cancel walljump with while also gaining elevation? because QD to walljump to QD cancel to walljump over and over doesn't help recovery.

You don't have to release quickdraw immediately, you can wait until you stop going upwards, then release. It's like in older patches when Ike had more walljumps, the only difference now is there is a much smaller window.

 

[Starfall11]

What is the purpose of continuously walljumping into QD repeatedly in such a small window?

I don't see a method where this would be practical in a match. Maybe hogging the edge to prevent recoveries?

 

[Frakture]

What is the purpose of continuously walljumping into QD repeatedly in such a small window?

I don't see a method where this would be practical in a match. Maybe hogging the edge to prevent recoveries?

The purpose would be to recover from lower than is normally possible. I agree that it is too difficult and dangerous to attempt in a match, but if you can't recover any other way then you have nothing to lose.

On a side note, Ike can hog the ledge with his much more lenient invincible ledge stall.

 

[Vavv]

The purpose would be to recover from lower than is normally possible. I agree that it is too difficult and dangerous to attempt in a match, but if you can't recover any other way then you have nothing to lose.

On a side note, Ike can hog the ledge with his much more lenient invincible ledge stall.

You don't have to release it immediately? I thought it was only possible to walljump again if Ike releases on the 4th frame like you stated.

 

[Frakture]

You don't have to release it immediately? I thought it was only possible to walljump again if Ike releases on the 4th frame like you stated.

In order to walljump again, Ike has to perform any action on the 4th frame of the walljump. Because the walljump animation is 5 frames, it skips the walljump check that happens at that frame and prevents Ike from walljumping again. If the action you chose was quickdraw, you can hold it while you are rising from the walljump, and release it when you hit the peak, then walljump again. The only thing that matters when performing this tech is that the walljump animation is interrupted at exactly the 4th frame.

 

[Vavv]

In order to walljump again, Ike has to perform any action on the 4th frame of the walljump. Because the walljump animation is 5 frames, it skips the walljump check that happens at that frame and prevents Ike from walljumping again. If the action you chose was quickdraw, you can hold it while you are rising from the walljump, and release it when you hit the peak, then walljump again. The only thing that matters when performing this tech is that the walljump animation is interrupted at exactly the 4th frame.

oh, so Ike's momentum will still go up from the walljump even if he cancels into QD animation?

 

[Frakture]

oh, so Ike's momentum will still go up from the walljump even if he cancels into QD animation?

Yes, it will still act like a normal walljump.

 

[Starfall11]

I noticed you included some notes on practical application. But I think a section under each technique labeled "Practical techniques and video examples would be very helpful if possible." There are some videos of Ally doing Invincible QD from ledge into attack then follow-up. This would give people a visual representation and show practicality of the technique at the same time.

 

[Vavv]

I noticed you included some notes on practical application. But I think a section under each technique labeled "Practical techniques and video examples would be very helpful if possible." There are some videos of Ally doing Invincible QD from ledge into attack then follow-up. This would give people a visual representation and show practicality of the technique at the same time.

If you could link those I would be glad to provide a video in their technique's topics.