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Ness vs Lucas

A

Ademisk

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Bowser's Down B was horrible for recovery. It was good for attack, Ganon's B had ****ty as lag but more power than God....and how the hell can you compare Zelda and Sheik's down B? Those are all horrible examples.
 
thesage

thesage

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Ademisk said:
Bowser's Down B was horrible for recovery. It was good for attack, Ganon's B had ****ty as lag but more power than God....and how the hell can you compare Zelda and Sheik's down B? Those are all horrible examples.
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I always thought that Falcon's was faster, more powerful, and had more range. Bowser's up-b was one of the best attack moves in the game and gave him a lot of options. If you're going solely for recovery than pikachu has the best up-b for that (or pichu depending on the situation).

EDIT: Zelda's down b is clearly superior to sheik's as it moves her up 3 tiers, gives her better attacks, combos, chaingrabs, and more reliable kill moves. Zelda's down b is the opposite.
 
A

Ademisk

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All I'm saying is, those are bad points because while Bowser's is great for attacking, it's horrible for recovery, and while Pikachu's is great for recovery, its completely useless to attack with.
 
S

Smashbros_7

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Sorry I mean't in terms of psi magnet

Lucas>Ness

At least Luigi fireballs fly! There's NOTHING different about Ness' psi magnet.
 
S

Serpit

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That is true, sadly. Ness also has better costumes. Bumblebee Boy rocks all.

Lucas downtaunt has less swinging motions and sparkly stuff than Ness'. Lucas tripping isn't nearly as cool as "Okay!", but at least the Snake is pretty awesome.
 
V

Vortok

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I read this thread more as a "Playstyle comparison," not really "who would win in a fight?" The two characters are obviously related (points at game series they come from and the B move similarities), so a thread like this is helpful for people trying to decide on which one to play more often. Sure when you look at the A moves they vastly differ, but they're more similar than say... Bowser and Olimar (not sure about between them and Mario/Luigi). Thus, comparisons are being made. Some of the descriptions in this thread have been pretty helpful, in that regard.

Instead of comparing the two PSI Magnets without looking at anything else, it should be taken into account compared to the rest of the character's moveset (like how someone mentioned Ness has a better double jump, which offsets his Up B recovery going less distance). That'd be like comparing C. Falcon and Ganondorf's Up B in Melee. Falcon has godly DI on his while Ganon.... not so much.

Obviously the best way for people to decide is to just play both characters and learn what playstyle works for them... but that's besides the point, lol.
 
M

Mac_77

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Vortok said:
Obviously the best way for people to decide is to just play both characters and learn what playstyle works for them... but that's besides the point, lol.
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Nah, that would be a good idea, that kind of thinking would get you killed...
 
Aevin

Aevin

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How come in your sig, Ness smiles but Lucas isn't?
Does that even matter?
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You're beating him, aren't you?

Actually, I thought Lucas's falling taunt was pretty neat ... until I realized it looked just like he tripped. My favorite is his down taunt. Although it's not as "flashy" as Ness's, it seems like he's focusing more for a quick, powerful burst. (Which matches his play style, in my opinion.)
 
S

Smashbros_7

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Funny, Lucas is TRYING to better Ness in every way.

Ness runs 100M track at school, Lucas will do 150M track. Ness goes for a honor role, Lucas for a gold honor role.
 
A

Ademisk

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We say Ness is bad in Melee because he does. We're not talking about when you play with your friends who play for fun, we're talking full on high end top class competition, Ness is baaaad.
 
B

BentoBox

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Ness' fair has too much priority and speed =(. And his backthrow... gah. And whenever I get pkfired, even when I tap-DI like crazy, I still can't make it out early enough to prevent Ness from grabbing me :[. Ness is good. Lucas on the other hand is a lot easier to predict. That's just from my own experience though.
 
H

heypancho

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Uh... Ness' bair and dair are longer?? uair seems easier to kill with (esp w/o DJC) and when in doubt fair seems to always work.

Yoyo's are great and can kill.... and btw, I ran into some glitch with the yoyo. No not THE yoyo glitch, but I was just messing around with CPU and my yoyo stayed out. I don't know what I did, but my yoyo was just hanging out. When I dashed it trailed behind me like it was being blown in the wind, but I was holding onto it. Has anyone done this? I can't upload the pic of it, but whatever.. it didn't do anything.. just looked funny.

And my only problem with Lucas is getting in his face. Other than that Ness' balance of both combo/killing power seem to work well. Lucas seems to have high knockback moves and can kill at lower percents it ie USMASH. For that I think Lucas can close the gap fast (along with all his other smashes.. fsmash is too powerful for it's incredible startup speed and range), but Lucas can get eaten by sparkles.

What I mean is they can both combo and kill fairly well. Though it seems like Ness more geared to comboing while Lucas in KO power.
 
S

Sikarios

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I haven't read this thread in it's entirety so this may have already been discussed, but I'd like to hear more on opinions about Ness' and Lucas' BUp cross moves.

If were talking about "better", I think Lucas' is better only because of superior speed and distance. Obviously Ness' PKCross is much stronger and can KO like the dickens, but I'd have to say I like Lucas' more.
 
Levitas

Levitas

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Sikarios said:
I haven't read this thread in it's entirety so this may have already been discussed, but I'd like to hear more on opinions about Ness' and Lucas' BUp cross moves.

If were talking about "better", I think Lucas' is better only because of superior speed and distance. Obviously Ness' PKCross is much stronger and can KO like the dickens, but I'd have to say I like Lucas' more.
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Not quite sure what you're trying to say. If I had to guess, I'd think it was that you'd like to hear more about Ness and Lucas's NEUTRAL b moves, which are PK FLASH, and PK Freeze. Ness has no PK cross, sorry if this disappoints you somehow...

Anyway, Lucas's is far and away the better move, it's possible to use this in one v ones, but it will almost always be evaded or airdodged. Ness's is probably only good for one thing, camping jungle japes against non-projectile characters. More specifically, non-projectile characters not named marth, metaknight, Captain falcon, and I suppose a few others. His better option is PK Thunder camping, but be careful to cover yourself if you try it.

Oh, and Lucas is a GTFO character, while Ness takes control on the ground, and has more reliably early kills. Lucas has a monsterous recovery, Ness is dead if he needs to recover a lot of the time. Ness has an easier time against larger characters because PK fire traps them much easier. Lucas is not only good at countering campy characters, but he's good at camping at a mid-range. Ness has style, Lucas has a bad haircut. So bad, in fact, that Nintendo thought it might offend legions of people if it were released in the US.
 
S

saratos

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Well, I don't know. VS eachother, I believe they are even, but VS the other characters, I believe that Lucas wins out.

One thing, though, is how Ness is much less reliant on projectile spam, giving him an edge against character like pit, wolf, falco, and others who have momentum-retaining reflectors. Lucas himself, though has an absorber that does REALLY weird stuff to his momentum, and it causes damage on release, giving him his own advantage vs those characters, who happen to be very spammy. I think Ness is better at close range, which basically means people will be less likely to choose him.
 
S

Sikarios

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Yes Levitas, thank you, I meant neutral B, I wasn't fully awake this morning. >.<

You mentioned Ness's only being good for jungle japes edge guarding, but can it not also be practical in stopping an opponents' dair if anticipated properly? Or would his yoyo be the safer bet in those situations?

Ness's Neutral B is a PK Flash? But doesn't he say "PK Cross"? I've always thought that's what he said.
 
S

Sikarios

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Kirby said:
I seriously don't think Ness sucks in melee, as I whip everyone with him, not just against my family/friends.

Who has (supposedly) the better Special/B moves?
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I honestly think Ness has the better Forward B, only because it angles down when in air. I'm SO used to using it this way from Melee that I just can't jive w/ Lucas's always straight Forward B. Lucas's seems much easier to dodge, in general.

I also think Ness has the better Down B energy shield, but apparently Lucas's has some wacky properties to it that can be utilized.
 
A

Ademisk

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Lucas has the better down B, and probably the better Neutral B, but the others are even.



And it just SOUNDS like PK Cross because Ness has never talked before Smash Bros. Listen to Kirby when he uses it. Definitely Flash.
 
S

Smashbros_7

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Levitas said:
Not quite sure what you're trying to say. If I had to guess, I'd think it was that you'd like to hear more about Ness and Lucas's NEUTRAL b moves, which are PK FLASH, and PK Freeze. Ness has no PK cross, sorry if this disappoints you somehow...

Anyway, Lucas's is far and away the better move, it's possible to use this in one v ones, but it will almost always be evaded or airdodged. Ness's is probably only good for one thing, camping jungle japes against non-projectile characters. More specifically, non-projectile characters not named marth, metaknight, Captain falcon, and I suppose a few others. His better option is PK Thunder camping, but be careful to cover yourself if you try it.

Oh, and Lucas is a GTFO character, while Ness takes control on the ground, and has more reliably early kills. Lucas has a monsterous recovery, Ness is dead if he needs to recover a lot of the time. Ness has an easier time against larger characters because PK fire traps them much easier. Lucas is not only good at countering campy characters, but he's good at camping at a mid-range. Ness has style, Lucas has a bad haircut. So bad, in fact, that Nintendo thought it might offend legions of people if it were released in the US.
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Lol at the end. But I disagree. I like Ness more be has little style. Lucas has his wimpy style, plus he can talk!
 
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