Ness - Smash 4 3DS 1.0.4 Frame and Hitbox Data

[EarthBoundEnigma]

Below you will find the subforum-relevant content of the 1.0.4 data dump.
This can resolve a lot of questions about the properties and mechanics of Ness' moveset.

Spoiler

1. BEGIN ness
2. **********
3. Jab1
4. Frame 3- 4: 2% 8b/100g 361°
5. Enables transition to next jab state on real frame 6
6. 
   
7. Jab2
8. Frame 3- 4: 2% 8b/100g 70°
9. Enables transition to next jab state on real frame 6
10. 
    
11. Jab3
12. Frame 6- 7: 4% 40b/400g 361°
13. 
    
14. Dash Attack
15. Frame 8- 8: 7%(+1) 60b/490g 80° Magic Aerial-Target-Only
16. Frame 8- 8: 4%(+1) 100f/57w 0° Magic Ground-Target-Only
17. Frame 8- 8: 3% 80b/300g 45°
18. Frame 15-15: 2%(+1) 100f/70w 20° Magic
19. Frame 22-22: 4%(+1) 80b/416g 80° 1.6-Hitlag Magic
20. 
    
21. F-tilt (high)
22. Frame 7-10: 10% 12b/1000g 361°
23. 
    
24. F-tilt (normal)
25. Frame 7-10: 9% 12b/900g 361°
26. 
    
27. F-tilt (low)
28. Frame 7-10: 10% 12b/1000g 361°
29. 
    
30. U-tilt
31. Frame 7- 8: 7% 42b/882g 96° Magic
32. Frame 7- 8: 5% 42b/630g 96°
33. 
    
34. D-tilt
35. Frame 3- 4: 4% 3b/80g 0° 0.3-Trip 0.5-Hitlag
36. Frame 3- 4: 2% 6b/40g 0° 0.3-Trip 0.5-Hitlag
37. 
    
38. F-smash (normal)
39. Frame 21-22: 22% 70b/1474g 361° 1.2-Hitlag
40. Frame 21-22: 20% 70b/1340g 361°
41. Frame 21-22: 18% 70b/1206g 361°
42. Smash charge window on real frame 11
43. Enables transition to F-smash2 on real frame 18
44. 
    
45. U-smash
46. Smash charge window on real frame 5
47. 
    
48. D-smash
49. Smash charge window on real frame 5
50. 
    
51. Nair
52. Frame 5-12: 11% 20b/1100g 361°
53. Frame 13-15: 7% 10b/700g 361°
54. Enables transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 5
55. Cancels transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 26
56. 
    
57. Fair
58. Frame 8-18: [1%(+1)]x2 16b/60g 366° 0.8-SDI Magic
59. Frame 20-20: 4%(+1) 32b/600g 361° 1.5-Hitlag Magic
60. Enables transition to Fair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 8
61. Cancels transition to Fair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 33
62. 
    
63. Bair
64. Frame 10-11: 15% 16b/1500g 361° Magic
65. Frame 12-18: 8% 0b/800g 361°
66. Enables transition to Bair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 10
67. Cancels transition to Bair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 25
68. 
    
69. Uair
70. Frame 8-11: 13% 13b/1417g 85°
71. Enables transition to Uair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 8
72. Cancels transition to Uair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 27
73. 
    
74. Dair
75. Frame 20-20: 12% 20b/840g 270° Magic
76. Frame 21-24: 10% 30b/700g 45° Magic
77. Enables transition to Dair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 20
78. Cancels transition to Dair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 50
79. 
    
80. Grab
81. Frame 6- 7: Grab
82. Enables state transition on real frame 8
83. 
    
84. Dash Grab
85. Frame 8- 9: Grab
86. Enables state transition on real frame 10
87. 
    
88. Pivot Grab
89. Frame 10-11: Grab
90. Enables state transition on real frame 12
91. 
    
92. Pummel
93. Frame 3- 3: 1.2% 100f/30w 361°
94. Enables state transition on real frame 10
95. 
    
96. F-throw
97. Frame 0- 1: 11% 120b/110g 45°
98. 
    
99. B-throw
100. Frame 0- 1: 11% 15b/1430g 135°
101. 
     
102. U-throw
103. Frame 0- 1: 10% 105b/400g 90°
104. 
     
105. D-throw
106. Frame 0- 9: 4% 70b/320g 70°
107. Frame 10-13: [0.6%]x5 0b/60g 361° Fire
108. 
     
109. PK Thunder (aerial controlling)
110. Enables all ledge grabs on real frame 0
111. 
     
112. Lasting PK Thunder (aerial controlling)
113. Enables all ledge grabs on real frame 0
114. 
     
115. Rolling PK Thunder (aerial controlling)
116. Enables all ledge grabs on real frame 0
117. 
     
118. PK Thunder (PKT2)
119. Frame 1-10: 25% 83b/2000g 361° Electric
120. Frame 11-32: 21% 45b/1470g 361° Electric
121. 
     
122. Lasting PK Thunder (PKT2)
123. Frame 20- 2: [1.5%]x10 100f/20w 361° 0.8-Hitlag Electric
124. Frame 20- 2: [1.5%]x10 50b/75g 365° 0.8-Hitlag Electric
125. Frame 31-32: 10% 90b/700g 361° 1.3-Hitlag Electric
126. 
     
127. Rolling PK Thunder (PKT2)
128. Frame 1-32: 30% 60b/2400g 361° Electric
129. 
     
130. PK Thunder (???)
131. Frame 0- 1: 0% 100f/25w 367°
132. 
     
133. PSI Magnet
134. 
     
135. PSI Vacuum
136. Frame 5- 9: 10% 25b/900g 361° Electric
137. Frame 5- 9: 5% 20b/450g 361° Electric
138. 
     
139. Forward PSI Magnet
140. Frame 0- 2: 9% 55b/630g 45° 0.5-Hitlag 0.0-SDI Electric
141. 
     
142. **********
143. END ness
144. 
     
145. BEGIN ness_pkfire
146. **********
147. PK Fire ()
148. Frame 0- 1: 4% 30b/320g 80° 0.0-SDI Fire
149. 
     
150. PK Bonfire ()
151. Frame 0- 1: 2% 30b/160g 80° 0.0-SDI Fire
152. 
     
153. PK Fire Burst ()
154. Frame 0- 1: 1% 30b/80g 80° 0.0-SDI Fire
155. 
     
156. PK Fire ()
157. Frame 0- 1: 2% 10b/60g 68° 0.8-SDI Fire
158. Frame 0- 1: 1% 10b/30g 68° 0.8-SDI Fire
159. 
     
160. PK Bonfire ()
161. Frame 0- 1: 5% 30b/500g 90° 0.8-SDI Fire
162. Frame 0- 1: 3% 10b/90g 80° 0.8-SDI Fire
163. 
     
164. PK Fire Burst ()
165. Frame 9-10: 8% 40b/800g 45° 0.8-SDI Fire
166. 
     
167. **********
168. END ness_pkfire
169. 
     
170. BEGIN ness_pkflash
171. **********
172. PK Flash
173. Frame 0- 1: 1% 10b/70g 70° Electric
174. 
     
175. Rising PK Flash
176. Frame 0- 2: 1% 30b/80g 80° Electric
177. 
     
178. PK Freeze
179. Frame 0- 1: 1% 100f/70w 70° Ice
180. 
     
181. **********
182. END ness_pkflash
183. 
     
184. BEGIN ness_pkstarstorm
185. **********
186. Final Smash
187. Frame 11-15: 8% 70b/736g 42° Fire Unblockable
188. 
     
189. **********
190. END ness_pkstarstorm
191. 
     
192. BEGIN ness_pkthunder
193. **********
194. PK Thunder
195. Frame 0- 1: 8% 70b/400g 110° 0.5-Hitlag Electric
196. 
     
197. Lasting PK Thunder
198. Frame 0- 1: 7% 70b/350g 361° 0.5-Hitlag 1.5-SDI Electric
199. 
     
200. Rolling PK Thunder
201. Frame 0- 1: 12% 90b/600g 110° 0.5-Hitlag Electric
202. 
     
203. **********
204. END ness_pkthunder
205. 
     
206. BEGIN ness_yoyohead
207. **********
208. Usmash
209. Frame 1- 6: 9% 90b/540g 80°
210. Frame 7-25: 13% 70b/780g 80°
211. 
     
212. Dsmash
213. Frame 5-10: [1%]x2 100f/12w 366°
214. Frame 12-13: 10% 60b/800g 28°
215. Frame 18-20: 1% 100f/14w 45°
216. Frame 21-24: 1% 100f/14w 80°
217. Frame 26-27: 10% 50b/800g 33°
218. 
     
219. **********
220. END ness_yoyohead

[Source]

 

[Noa.]

Yeah it's nice to have hard confirmed data on most of Ness's moves.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

Does anyone know if there's a key or explanation of the units of measurement used? b/g/°?

 

[PKBeam]

Does anyone know if there's a key or explanation of the units of measurement used? b/g/°?

i'm 99% sure that it's base knockback/knockback growth/angle of launch
if you want i can translate that into easy to read data for you

 

[Tikao]

no data on getup and slipattack, I'm not impressed

ok for real now, nice to have some kind of real (and 100% confirmed) framedata to work with, should make a lot of things easier for us

"i think it's base knockback/knockback growth/angle of launch" can confirm this


the only actual thing i miss are IASA frames

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

i'm 99% sure that it's base knockback/knockback growth/angle of launch
if you want i can translate that into easy to read data for you

Please do!

 

[PKBeam]

alright, i'll post my results here

 

[Tikao]

is there some kind of file(s) they got the data from anyone could download?
would love to look into some stuff myself

 

[PKBeam]

BKB = Base Knockback
KBG = Knockback Growth
FKB = Fixed Knockback
WKB = Weight Knockback
Angle = Angle of launch
SDI Multiplier = SDI is less effective when this number is smaller
Hitlag Multiplier = Hitlag is less when this number is smaller
"x/x/x" means there are three hitboxes etc.
Jabs are listed as separate animations.
All frame data listed without hitlag.
I'm pretty sure 361 degrees is the programmer being lazy and specifying no angle

Spoiler: Normals

Jab1
Hits: 3-4
BKB: 8
KBG: 100
Damage: 2%
Angle: 361°
Jab 2 starts earliest frame 6
---Jab2
Hits: 3-4
BKB: 8
KBG: 100
Angle: 70°
Damage: 2%
Jab 3 starts earliest frame 6
------Jab3
Hits: 6-7
BKB: 40
KBG: 400
Angle: 361°
Damage: 4%

Dash Attack
---Hitbox 1
Hits: 8
------Aerial Targets
BKB: 60
KBG: 490
Angle: 80°
Damage: 7%
------Grounded Targets
FKB: 100
WKB: 57
Angle: 0°
Damage: 4%
------Sourspot (Hand)
BKB: 80
KBG: 300
Angle: 45°
Damage: 3%
---Hitbox 2
Hits: 15
FKB: 100
WKB: 70
Angle: 20°
Damage: 2%
---Hitbox 3
Hits: 22
BKB: 80
KBG: 416
Angle: 80°
Damage: 4%
Hitlag Multiplier: 1.6x

Ftilt
Hits: 7-10
BKB: 12
KBG: 1000 (900 on normal Ftilt)
Angle: 361°
Damage: 10% (9% on normal Ftilt)

Utilt
---Sweetspot/Sourspot
Hits: 7-8
BKB: 42/42
KBG: 882/630
Angle: 96°/361°
Damage: 7%/5%

Dtilt
---Sweetspot/Sourspot
Hits: 3-4
BKB: 3/6
KBG: 80/40
Angle: 0°
Damage: 4%/2%
Trip Rate: 30%
Hitlag Multiplier: 0.5x

Fsmash
---Sweetspot/Sourspot/Very Sourspot
Hits: 21-22
BKB: 70/70/70
KBG: 1474/1340/1206
Angle: 361°
Damage: 22%/20%/18%

Usmash
Hits: 1-25
NOTE: Add 5 frames for the entire Usmash animation, this is counting from the charge animation
---Hitbox 1
Hits: 1-6
BKB: 90
KBG: 540
Angle: 80°
Damage: 9%
---Hitbox 2
Hits: 7-25
BKB: 70
KBG: 780
Angle: 80°
Damage: 13%

Dsmash
Hits: 5-27
NOTE: Add 5 frames for the entire Dsmash animation, this is counting from the charge animation
---Hitbox 1
Hits: 5-10
FKB: 100
WKB: 12
Angle: 366°
Damage: 1% (x2)
---Hitbox 2
Hits: 12-13
BKB: 60
KBG: 800
Angle: 28°
Damage: 10%
---Hitbox 3
Hits: 18-20
FKB: 100
WKB: 14
Angle: 45°
Damage: 1%
---Hitbox 4
Hits: 21-24
FKB: 100
WKB: 14
Angle: 80°
Damage: 1%
---Hitbox 5
Hits: 26-27
BKB: 50
KBG: 800
Angle: 33°
Damage: 10%

Nair
Hits: 5-15
Autocancels: 1-4, 26
---Hitbox 1
Hits: 5-12
BKB: 20
KBG: 1100
Angle: 361°
Damage: 11%
---Hitbox 2
Hits: 13-15
BKB: 10
KBG: 700
Angle: 361°
Damage: 7%

Fair
Hits: 8-20
Autocancels: 1-7, 33
---Hitbox 1-3
Hits: 8-18
BKB: 16
KBG: 60
Angle: 366°
Damage: 1%
SDI Multiplier: 0.8x
---Hitbox 4
Hits: 20
BKB: 32
KBG: 600
Angle: 361°
Damage: 4%
Hitlag Multiplier: 1.5x

Bair
Hits: 10-18
Autocancels: 1-9, 15
---Hitbox 1
Hits: 10-11
BKB: 16
KBG: 1500
Angle: 361°
Damage: 15%
---Hitbox 2
Hits: 12-18
BKB: 0
KBG: 800
Angle: 361°
Damage: 8%

Uair
Hits: 8-11
Autocancels: 1-7, 27
BKB: 13
KBG: 1417
Angle: 85°
Damage: 13%

Dair
Hits: 20-24
Autocancels: 1-19, 50
---Hitbox 1
Hits: 20
BKB: 20
KBG: 840
Angle: 270° (This is the meteor)
Damage: 12%
---Hitbox 2
Hits: 21-24
BKB: 30
KBG: 700
Angle: 45°
Damage: 10%

Spoiler: Grabs and Throws

Grab
Hits: 6-7
Opponent enters grabbed state on 8

Dash Grab
Hits: 8-9
Opponent enters grabbed state on 10

Pivot Grab
Hits: 10-11
Opponent enters grabbed state on 12

Pummel
Hits: 3
FKB: 100
WKB: 30
Angle: 361°
Damage: 1.2%

Fthrow
BKB: 120
KBG: 110
Angle: 45°
Damage: 11%

Bthrow
BKB: 15
KBG: 1430
Angle: 135°
Damage: 11%

Uthrow
BKB: 105
KBG: 400
Angle: 90°
Damage: 10%

Dthrow
---Hitbox 1-5
BKB: 0
KBG: 60
Angle: 361°
Damage: 0.6%
---Hitbox 6
BKB: 70
KBG: 320
Angle: 70°
Damage: 4%

Spoiler: Specials

PKT1
Hits: 0-1
BKB: 70
KBG: 400
Angle: 110°
Damage: 8%
Hitlag Multiplier: 0.5x

PKT2
Hits: 1-32
---Hitbox 1
Hits: 1-10
BKB: 83
KBG: 2000
Angle: 361°
Damage: 25%
---Hitbox 2
Hits: 11-32
BKB: 45
KBG: 1470
Angle: 361°
Damage: 21%

Lasting PKT1
Hits: 0-1
BKB: 70
KBG: 350
Angle: 361°
Damage: 7%
Hitlag Multiplier: 0.5x
SDI Multiplier: 1.5x

Lasting PKT2
Hits: 20-32
---Hitbox 1
Hits: 20-22
BKB: 50 ("f": 100)
KBG: 75 ("w": 20)
Angle: 361/365°
Damage: 1.5% (x10)
---Hitbox 2
Hits: 31-32
BKB: 90
KBG: 700
Angle: 361°
Damage: 10%

Rolling PKT1
Hits: 0-1
BKB: 90
KBG: 600
Angle: 110°
Damage: 12%
Hitlag Multiplier: 0.5x

Rolling PKT2
Hits: 1-32
BKB: 60
KBG: 2400
Angle: 361°
Damage: 30%

PSI Vacuum
Hits: 5-9
BKB: 25/20
KBG: 900/450
Angle: 361°
Damage: 10%/5%

Forward PSI Magnet
Hits: 0-2
BKB: 55
KBG: 630
Angle: 45°
Damage: 9%
Hitlag Multiplier: 0.5x
SDI Multiplier: 0x

PK Fire
Hits: 0-1 (I assume this is many separate hitboxes)
BKB: 30/10/10
KBG: 320/60/30
Angle: 80/68/68°
Damage: 4%/2%/1%
SDI Multiplier: 0x/0.8x/0.8x

PK Bonfire
Hits: 0-1
BKB: 30/30/10
KBG: 160/500/90
Angle: 80/90/80°
Damage: 2%/5%/3%
SDI Multiplier: 0x/0.8x/0.8x

PK Fire Burst
Hits: 0-10
---Hitbox 1
Hits: 0-1
BKB: 30
KBG: 80
Angle: 80°
Damage: 1%
SDI Multiplier: 0x
---Hitbox 2
Hits: 9-10
BKB: 40
KBG: 800
Angle: 45°
Damage: 8%
SDI Multiplier: 0.8x

PK Flash (???)
Hits: 0-1 (No idea what this is about)
BKB: 10
KBG: 70
Angle: 70°
Damage: 1%

Rising PK Flash
Hits: 0-2
BKB: 30
KBG: 80
Angle: 80°
Damage: 1

PK Freeze
Hits: 0-1
FKB: 100
WKB: 70
Angle: 70°
Damage: 1%

PK Starstorm
Hits: 11-15
BKB: 70
KBG: 736
Angle: 42°
Damage: 8%
"Fire Unblockable"

also, somebody should pin this thread.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

Angle 361 is autolink, I believe

 

[Ranias]

Ftilt
Hits: 7-10
BKB: 12
KBG: 1000 (900 on normal Ftilt)
Angle: 361°
Damage: 10% (9% on normal Ftilt)

So unless we need the extra range, we should always angle the Ftilt. Cool.

 

[Funen1]

This entire project is a big help so far, and there's still more frame data info to be found. The scientist in me is super giddy right now. Thanks to PKBeam for the re-formatting too. Much easier to figure out what numbers goes where, especially when it comes to multi-hit moves and custom specials. Also, I believe the "f" is supposed to represent "fixed knockback".

 

[PKBeam]

never heard of fixed knockback in Brawl. must be a new thing. i wonder what the "w" is then....
also confirmed that PKF is 20% harder to SDI.

 

[Tikao]

Just to give you insight how an offensive collision (aka hitbox, even if it's not a box, hitbubble/collision bubble would be more accurate) looked like in brawl (it doesn't realy look different in smash 4 judging by the data given, but some small things might be different)

Even if it is not in the given data, EVERY hitbubble has everything listed down below

Spoiler

Bone/Id = The Bone the collision bubble is attached to / The Number of the collision bubble

Damage = The amount of damage inflicted to the target upon collision

Trajectory = The direction in which a target gets launched *1

Weight Knockback = The distance the target is launched proportional to weight for fixed knockback hits (yes, it exists and existed in brawl, like for some hits that should chain into another hit (diddy's/link's/pit's 1. fsmash hits are a good example for that)

Knockback Growth = The additional distance the target is launched proportional to it's current damage/percentages *2

Shield damage = The amount of damage dealt to the target's shield if it's up (not in the given data, but it still exists, or else every move would deal the same shield damage, which is not the case)

Base Knockback = The distance the target is launched regardless of its damage

Size = Size of the Hitbox

X/Y/Z Offset = the amount the collision is transitioned (on the X/Y/Z Axis) relative to the currently attached bone (they're not one thing with just one value, i just explained them all together, they have 3 values)

Tripping rate = The percent possibility ( 1 = 100%/ 0,3 = 30% etc.) of the collision bubble inducing a trip, if the target doesn't leave the ground from the knockback *1 (this is NOT the random tripping from brawl and it is still in smash 4, like in Ness' dtilt)

Hitlag Multiplier = A multplier affecting the time in which both parties pause when the collision bubble connects (NOT hitstun)

Directional Influence multiplier = A multiplier affecting the ability for the character to maneuver themselves while suffering from the hitlag generated by this collision bubble (we know this as SDI)

Flags = Flags for some parameters such as hit effects, if the target can be hit on the ground/air or both, what kind of hit it is (you might see something like "Fire" or "Magic" in the data, that is it)


*1 there is a special 361° angel (also called "sakurai angel") which is used in many moves that might trip, they allow the target to leave the ground while also giving them the chance to trip before they leave the ground (so this angel gives the chance for causing a trip while also being able to lift them from the ground, why is this a 361° angel and not a 1° angel ? i don't know, probadly only sakurai does)

*2 Knockback Growth also depends on the damage a collision bubble does, a move with 5% damage kills waaay later than a move with 20% and the exact same Knockback Values
HOWEVER this might be different in Smash 4, since Knockback Growth is unusually high here
Example : Ness' bthrow
brawl : Damage 11%, Base Knockback 15, Knockback Growth 130
smash 4 : Damage 11%, Base Knockback 15, Knockback Growth 1430
the resulting Knockback is ALWAYS the same (it might kill differently because of rage effect and different blastzones, but the knockback is always the same in both games)
NOW if you devide the smash 4 Knockback growth by its damage, you get the old Knockback growth from brawl ( 1430 / 11 = 130)
SO in order to compair Brawl knockback growth and smash 4 knockback growth, you need to multiply the brawl knockback growth with the brawl damage and the compair the result with Smash 4's Knockback growth

 

[Pazzo.]

Just to give you insight how an offensive collision (aka hitbox, even if it's not a box, hitbubble/collision bubble would be more accurate) looked like in brawl (it doesn't realy look different in smash 4 judging by the data given, but some small things might be different)

Even if it is not in the given data, EVERY hitbubble has everything listed down below


Bone/Id = The Bone the collision bubble is attached to / The Number of the collision bubble

Damage = The amount of damage inflicted to the target upon collision

Trajectory = The direction in which a target gets launched *1

Weight Knockback = The distance the target is launched proportional to weight for fixed knockback hits (yes, it exists and existed in brawl, like for some hits that should chain into another hit (diddy's/link's/pit's 1. fsmash hits are a good example for that)

Knockback Growth = The additional distance the target is launched proportional to it's current damage/percentages *2

Shield damage = The amount of damage dealt to the target's shield if it's up (not in the given data, but it still exists, or else every move would deal the same shield damage, which is not the case)

Base Knockback = The distance the target is launched regardless of its damage

Size = Size of the Hitbox

X/Y/Z Offset = the amount the collision is transitioned (on the X/Y/Z Axis) relative to the currently attached bone (they're not one thing with just one value, i just explained them all together, they have 3 values)

Tripping rate = The percent possibility ( 1 = 100%/ 0,3 = 30% etc.) of the collision bubble inducing a trip, if the target doesn't leave the ground from the knockback *1 (this is NOT the random tripping from brawl and it is still in smash 4, like in Ness' dtilt)

Hitlag Multiplier = A multplier affecting the time in which both parties pause when the collision bubble connects (NOT hitstun)

Directional Influence multiplier = A multiplier affecting the ability for the character to maneuver themselves while suffering from the hitlag generated by this collision bubble (we know this as SDI)

Flags = Flags for some parameters such as hit effects, if the target can be hit on the ground/air or both, what kind of hit it is (you might see something like "Fire" or "Magic" in the data, that is it)


*1 there is a special 361° angel (also called "sakurai angel") which is used in many moves that might trip, they allow the target to leave the ground while also giving them the chance to trip before they leave the ground (so this angel gives the chance for causing a trip while also being able to lift them from the ground, why is this a 361° angel and not a 1° angel ? i don't know, probadly only sakurai does)

*2 Knockback Growth also depends on the damage a collision bubble does, a move with 5% damage kills waaay later than a move with 20% and the exact same Knockback Values
HOWEVER this might be different in Smash 4, since Knockback Growth is unusually high here
Example : Ness' bthrow
brawl : Damage 11%, Base Knockback 15, Knockback Growth 130
smash 4 : Damage 11%, Base Knockback 15, Knockback Growth 1430
the resulting Knockback is ALWAYS the same (it might kill differently because of rage effect and different blastzones, but the knockback is always the same in both games)
NOW if you devide the smash 4 Knockback growth by its damage, you get the old Knockback growth from brawl ( 1430 / 11 = 130)
SO in order to compair Brawl knockback growth and smash 4 knockback growth, you need to multiply the brawl knockback growth with the brawl damage and the compair the result with Smash 4's Knockback growth


Oh, and i don't know how to put this in a spoiler xD

[ collapse]

[/ collapse]

No space between the bracket, backslash and 'collapse'.

 

[Tikao]

ok thanks :D

 

[PKBeam]

ah, that's odd, brawlbox didn't show fixed knockback values so i just assumed they didn't exist until now.

 

[Eagleye893]

My problem with this frame data is it doesn't give end-lag of moves or landing lag. That info is some of the more useful stuff in determining the actual usefulness of DTilt and other moves.

DTilt looks like a garbage move. 0.5x hitstun multiplier, a 3 frame start and likely ending at frame 8/9 like last game. DTilt > grab has about 12 frames for an opponent to react, and given that a lot of jabs are frame 2/3 starts, that gives us an effective 9 frames if we're perfect. If hitstun is 1/3 of a second, we're ****d.

 

[PKBeam]

Dtilt's whole duration is about 13. hitlag is only one or two frames with the multiplier but hitlag itself is pretty irrelevant anyway.

EDIT: i just tested it and it appears that if you spam Dtilt it does indeed hit once per 8 or 9 frames.

 

[Tikao]

hitlag is irrelevant since both your opponent AND you suffer it

dtilt in brawl used to be like this :

frame 3 : hitbox(es) 4%, triprate 30%, hitlag multplier 0,5 ...
frame 5 : terminate hitbox(es)
frame 6 : some kind of bit variable set (looking similiar to how jabs allow to chain into each other before actual IASA frames)
frame 14 : allow interrupt (aka IASA frames start here)

in brawl, there used to be 3 hitboxes, they were basically the same, but attached to different bones, they all are literally the same to the 4% hitbox in smash 4, the 2% one is new and the only difference (as far as i can tell with the data given, maybe there is more)
so IASA frames are probadly frame 14 as well

but i do believe that bit variable set let's you cancel a dtilt into another dtilt starting at frame 6, similiar to how jabs do that (not sure about this part though, this would mean you could use this move 10 times a second)


I would realy like to look into the original data itself and complete it xD